Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 61

Thread: Lateen

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Iceland/Malta
    Posts
    259

    Default Lateen

    Just thought I would share some Lateen rigged boats

    "And what he greatly thought, he nobly dared" - Homer

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Ferris Texas
    Posts
    71

    Default Re: Lateen

    How does a lateen rigged boat tack? I would assume it has to dip the spar down and around to the other side of the mast, but I have never seen it done or read any thing on the subject. They do have a very salty look to them.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Toulon FRANCE
    Posts
    791

    Default Re: Lateen

    Yes they do, your guess is right.
    Here is a video showing that (yes it's ragata lateen boats with skilled crew).
    Around 2mn 30:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TtcZjAuF4A

    Last edited by Rapelapente; 12-03-2012 at 07:21 AM.
    Gerard.
    SCHOONER FOR EVER, GOELETTE A PERPETE

    http://www.schooner-anthea.com

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Ballard
    Posts
    7,918

    Default Re: Lateen

    Big Food needs a giant lateen.

    Maybe a lateen in the front, a crabclaw for a mizzen. (And a fisherman for really light air days.)
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cummington
    Posts
    5,378

    Default Re: Lateen

    I had a dentist treating me who had just come back from vacation in Egypt including felucca sailing on the Nile. He claimed to want one. A Corinthian (Alden) sailor his interest diminished when I talked about the options. They do look grand. In the typical SW Marblehead wind the ride out would be dramatic and the tacking return much work in tight quarters.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Cape Fear, NC, USA
    Posts
    2,769

    Default Re: Lateen

    Discussion of lateen sails starts around the ten minute mark.
    This is the first lesson ye should learn: There is so much good in the worst of us, and so much bad in the best of us, it doesn't behoove any of us to speak evil of the rest of us.
    E. Cayce

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Ferris Texas
    Posts
    71

    Default Re: Lateen

    Thanks Rapelapente, great video. Takes a talented crew to make all that happen so quickly, but looks like allot of fun. George, in your video they seem to do it a little differently, actually lifting the spar over the mast.
    Last edited by James Corduan; 12-01-2012 at 10:33 PM. Reason: More info

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    371

    Default Re: Lateen

    I believe the difference is that in the Canary rig the yard is hoisted abaft the mast, with the hauling part of the halliard leading from the sheave out of the forward side of the mast. In tacking, the yard is swung vertically abaft the mast and the tack carried around to the other side. In the Arab dhow, the yard is hoisted before the mast, with the halliard leading aft. In tacking, the yard is swung vertically before the mast and the clew carried around to the other side.
    Peter Belenky

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    134

    Default Re: Lateen

    Nice one here too.. love the hulls on some of the latine riggers. plumb stem, counter stern. Anyone know of any plans for this type of open boat?




  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Iceland/Malta
    Posts
    259

    Default Re: Lateen

    There are some drawings in Howard Chapelles' "American small sailing craft" which are available for purchase from the Smithsonian. I bought a set myself. The lines were taken off the typical Sicilian fishing boats in San Francisco around 1900 or so. There is a great Woodenboat article of one that was built (forgot the issue and name of the boat at this time) and then donated to the maritime museum there. I believe they have some great footage of sailing that boat.

    One of the most remarkable things I find about the Lateen boats is that they have no keel to speak of and only rocks or sand for ballast, yet they have a huge sail area. They have very little rigging - usually only a halyard and a sort of sheet and topping lift. Unstayed mast. Very simple and very effective in an experienced hand. I intend to build one some day.
    "And what he greatly thought, he nobly dared" - Homer

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Iceland/Malta
    Posts
    259

    Default Re: Lateen

    The Howard Chapelle drawings are for Dago boats and are also discussed on another thread
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...-Lateen-sail-s
    "And what he greatly thought, he nobly dared" - Homer

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Iceland/Malta
    Posts
    259

    Default Re: Lateen



    you don't have to dip the sail...

    "And what he greatly thought, he nobly dared" - Homer

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    northwestern Wisconsin
    Posts
    3,262

    Default Re: Lateen

    Quote Originally Posted by Dana Marlin View Post

    you don't have to dip the sail...
    Very true--I used to sail a lateen-rigged 14-footer and it worked fine on either tack. A fun rig, but not great for sail-and-oar cruising, since the yard was 4 feet longer than my entire boat!

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Iceland/Malta
    Posts
    259

    Default Re: Lateen

    This is the Dago boat built for the SF Maritime Museum - she was called "Nuovo Mundo"




    I wonder what happened to her. Anyone know?
    "And what he greatly thought, he nobly dared" - Homer

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Fiddletown, on Vineyard Lane
    Posts
    3,495

    Default Re: Lateen

    I see her all the time. She is slipped off to the right of the Maritime Museum dock, behind the building sheds, and Dana, your photo depicts her exactly where I saw her two weeks ago, by happenstance. Her mast and spars are stored in the second building shed, and for no reason, I inspected them a bit. I have never seen her underway (BTW, how come I keep seeing people spell that "underweigh"?). Another was built and hung from the ceiling, maybe two years ago, at the Monterey Aquarium. It was a lot of boat for its size--maybe an 18. I am not sure where that one is today. A strip planked half hull, fullsize, was also built about two years ago and forms part of the new exhibits at the Maritime Museum, which is at the corner of Jefferson and Hyde, IIRC. I have seen identical boats at Napoli and Ischia, especially Ischia.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Devon, U.K.
    Posts
    542

    Default Re: Lateen

    Meanwhile, on the other side of the Atlantic:



    I have a project going on in Brazil at the moment, this is a couple of the locals out for a lunchtime sail. Didn't see them tack!

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Southern Maine
    Posts
    20,148

    Default Re: Lateen

    Quote Originally Posted by davebrown View Post
    underway (BTW, how come I keep seeing people spell that "underweigh"?)......................... I have seen identical boats at Napoli and Ischia, especially Ischia.
    I think pedantically "under weigh" means the anchor is no longer on the bottom, and "making way" means moving.

    I've seen similar boats all over the Western med, but the "rig" has always turned out to be an awning arrangement.

    Dana, are there lateen boats in Malta?

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    49,359

    Default Re: Lateen

    On the back of a clipping from 1897 I have a reference to a lateen sailed yacht with a sprit mizzen being sailed at Cowes week, by a Lady .................. Her name is clipped off unfortunately.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    21

    Default Re: Lateen

    I grew up in Tampa. One weekend my Dad took us to Tarpon Springs where the Greek community used these sails for 15-20 fishing boats, usually manned by the sons of the Gr. fishermen. They do swing the sail around the front of the mast. What interests me is Dana's statement about their straight shallow keel. I wonder how they hold their line with that keel.
    Maybe the sail area being so high,yet narrow above the mast means the boat tips over rather than slides sideways. If that is the case, they lean into their bilge where they carry some weight.
    But maybe there's another reason. Does anybody have an idea?

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    2,670

    Default Re: Lateen

    This is also a nice clip...


  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Iceland/Malta
    Posts
    259

    Default Re: Lateen

    Quote Originally Posted by Hwyl View Post
    I think pedantically "under weigh" means the anchor is no longer on the bottom, and "making way" means moving.

    I've seen similar boats all over the Western med, but the "rig" has always turned out to be an awning arrangement.

    Dana, are there lateen boats in Malta?
    Unfortunately not anymore. You see lots of old photos with lateen "feluccas" in Malta, but the introduction of the engine killed them. There was a type of boat called a Ferilla, very much like Nuovo Mundo, which was very popular until around the first world war, then the introduction of axillary engines put an end to them - now the Luzzu, a motorized non-sailing offspring is the most iconic boat in Malta. Unfortunately, there are so few boatbuilders left in Malta that even Luzzus are dying out now. The woods used for boatbuilding in Malta are usually White Deal and Pine and in the Med these have short lifespans, so there are few of the old boats left. Same story everywhere I suppose.
    "And what he greatly thought, he nobly dared" - Homer

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Iceland/Malta
    Posts
    259

    Default Re: Lateen

    Quote Originally Posted by johnno View Post
    This is also a nice clip...
    nice
    "And what he greatly thought, he nobly dared" - Homer

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Chios East Aegean island
    Posts
    41

    Default Re: Lateen

    A lateen boat from greece.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Iceland/Malta
    Posts
    259

    Default Re: Lateen

    Quote Originally Posted by stefos View Post
    A lateen boat from greece.
    I like that one! The Schooner at the end looks a little out of control though... gotta stay off that Ouzo!
    "And what he greatly thought, he nobly dared" - Homer

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Southern Maine
    Posts
    20,148

    Default Re: Lateen

    Love that Meltemi wind, only the Greeks could put the wind on a daily timetable.

    That's the Cyclades, but I can't remember where.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Waterbury, Connecticut
    Posts
    2,003

    Default Re: Lateen

    Lateens are lovely (I used the Polyensian version or Pacific Lateen on my outrigger for a few years) though Marchaj's windtunnel data suggests they are not the most efficient (the European version, anyway; Marchaj sort of adored the Pacific lateen and evidently a boom was critical to its efficiency, which the Euro-lateen lacks). What do you think they are opimized for in their more-or-less native environments? Those photos of the yard horizontal in suggest good downwind light-air performance (most of the sail up in the better air). of course they are closer winded than square sails. I guess they are fairly tall for their boats so on-wind light performance would be good too? And the fact that the whole sail can be dropped fair;y quickly is good for onset of gusts? Seems like they would be a handful in brisk conditions, and yet the Dago boats in SF would have been subjected to some heavy air at times? Comments? -- Wade

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    371

    Default Re: Lateen

    ...and for more pictures and activities (in Italian):

    http://www.velelatine.it/public/

    http://www.velalatina.it/

    http://www.velalatina.com/
    Peter Belenky

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    48

    Default Re: Lateen

    Quote Originally Posted by Hwyl View Post
    Love that Meltemi wind, only the Greeks could put the wind on a daily timetable.

    That's the Cyclades, but I can't remember where.
    That is in Spetses island 2011.The small boat is called Nautilos ,it is 6,2mLOA and its a YDREIKOS VARKALAS type boat .

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Southern Maine
    Posts
    20,148

    Default Re: Lateen

    Quote Originally Posted by stelios View Post
    That is in Spetses island 2011.The small boat is called Nautilos ,it is 6,2mLOA and its a YDREIKOS VARKALAS type boat .
    Ef haristu

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    371

    Default Re: Lateen

    Peter Belenky

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    48

    Default Re: Lateen

    !

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    48

    Default Re: Lateen

    Quote Originally Posted by Hwyl View Post
    Ef haristu
    !

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    34

    Default Re: Lateen

    Some old photos of lateen and half-lateen boats from Greece. Enjoy
    http://www.naftotopos.gr/index.php?o...id=576&lang=el

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Northern Europe
    Posts
    8,994

    Default Re: Lateen

    Nice thread Dana! Some great vids. Paul fisher got plans for a small 20ft Catalan fishing boat.


  35. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: Lateen

    [QUOTE=Popeye53;3613171]Nice one here too.. love the hulls on some of the latine riggers. plumb stem, counter stern. Anyone know of any plans for this type of open boat?



    Did you ever find any plans for something like this?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •