HMS Bounty and Hurricane Sandy

[Hwyl]

They left New London Ct, which is incidentally the Coat Guard headquarters, bout toward St Pete Fla on Thursday <place every Scotable word here>, that they'd choose to take this risk is criminal.







Some quotes from the "Captain" who should be publicly censured.

Bounty has departed New London CT...Next Port of Call...St. Petersburg, Florida.
Bounty will be sailing due East out to sea before heading South to avoid the brunt of Hurricane Sandy.

Rest assured that the Bounty is safe and in very capable hands.
Bounty's current voyage is a calculated decision...NOT AT ALL... irresponsible or foolhardy as some have suggested.
The fact of the matter is...

A SHIP IS SAFER AT SEA THAN IN PORT!

In the next few posts I will try to quell some fears and help to explain some of the dynamics that are in Bounty's favor.

[Reynard38]

So where is the due east course?

[Peerie Maa]

He might be right
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/e...89/sam-hur.htm

[Hwyl]

He might be right
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/e...89/sam-hur.htm

I don't think it's right to put lives at risk like that, for the sake of a movie prop. This is the Captain
http://www.tallshipbounty.org/the-sh...nWalbridge.php

[bamamick]

Well, I will continue to pray for them, and like Gareth, I will continue to wonder if this was at all responsible. My initial feelings are that it was not.

Mickey Lake

[wizbang 13]

He is about to go through any Gulf Stream cold eddys.
Rogue wave machine right there.

[erster]

He is sailing down wind into the big drop off of the shelf with a northly flow of current. The winds are in and around north by notheast 40 knots right now and the bulk of the weather has not reached the point of the banks yet .He needs to be removed from his duties if they make it thru tonight in one piece.The bouy off of Hatteras is reporting 24 foot seas right now with the center of the storm still south.

[rbgarr]

I was kind of confused when both Bounty and Amistad left secure mooring here in Boothbay Harbor just as we all became concerned about Sandy. My understanding was that they'd both be staying on for a while, Amistad to be hauled on the shipways to have some investigation done on her propeller and Bounty to be tied up along a secure wharf while more work was done once she vacated the shipways for Amistad. Guess not. They both left the early the same day (in tandem?, I wondered) Amistad is now in Portland where she may be hauled out for the winter.

[Michael Beckman]

This is why I stopped sailing on tall ships. Lack of judgement is pretty common.

[Hwyl]

I worry that he has young people on there. As a delivery skipper friend said "what were they thinking".

[MiddleAgesMan]

Sure, a ship is safer at sea, large steel-hulled naval ​vessels.

[rbgarr]

From the most recent entry in the Bounty Blog, Sept 20th.

It is the end of summer in Boothbay Harbor, Maine, although it certainly feels like winter! The crew is sporting the new winter hats that crew member Doug gave to each of us – they arrived just as the weather turned frigid!

Bounty is now out of the water at Boothbay Harbor Shipyard. On Monday morning, a 700-ton railway system slid into place around us and a diver blocked and wedged our keel into place. By noon, after the crew had feasted on delicious, greasy pizza and unsparingly “oiled” the deck, Bounty was ready for haul out. A great chain pulled her up the sloped marine railway system until she was in dry dock. Now, we can walk all the way around her and beneath her to re-paint her hull and to caulk leaky seams. When we look across the deck, no longer do we see the ocean – instead, there are houses on the starboard bow! I wonder what our new neighbors think.

A day in the shipyard begins before the sun is fully up and lasts until dinner time. In just a few days, we have demolished crew quarters, removed four 900 gallon tanks, and scrubbed barnacles off the hull. I am constantly amazed at the amount of work our tight-knit crew can accomplish. I just hope that the first blizzard of the season doesn't come in October, like last year...

[Breakaway]

My take: A ship is safer at sea than when approaching shallower inshore water during a storm. Its half-of-one-six-of-the-other between being safer in port or being safer out in the maelstrom.For the ship.

For the crew, its safer in port, so I disagree with his decision.

Kevin

[gilberj]

Every deep sea Ship Master is trained in how to handle their ship in a storm, and more specifically in a tropical revolving storm. I cannot speak to the Master of the Bounty or his decision. I do not have enough information. With the weather information and storm tracking available today, he is in a way better position to handle his vessel than sailing masters of old, who had to rely on relatively crude methods to determine the presence of a TRS and to figure the correct way in which to weather it.
How fast is the pressure dropping?
How is the wind developing, how about the swell?
Is the wind veering or backing or fairly steady in direction??
I'd guess the Bounty is not really weatherly. Can she work to windward in a force 8 or 9 or a force 10, 11, 12. With sufficient see room and correct handling she should be at little risk. I may have the statistic a little off in my head, but I believe I read something like The Royal navy between 1800 and 1805 lost three ships to weather. This is noteworthy, because they had hundreds of ships in service, all over the world, and were blockading French ports for 12 months of the year. Properly handled these vessels are pretty able.
The Master of the Bounty may have been unhappy with the level of protection he had in his berth alongside. He probably left with what he felt was a good window of opportunity to get to the safer quadrant.
TRS are often less severe out on the open sea. This is because they intensify as they get a little squeezed as they approach land. They are still a major weather pattern and to be treated with the most profound respect.
I am not endorsing his action. I simply do not know enough of his decision path. I am not prepared to damn his action without better information.

[Dryfeet]

Their track 'looks' a little bit more southerly than I'd take but, given that the storm is going to turn inland (or so it would seem), it shouldn't be too bad that far offshore. Certainly, a ship is safer at sea than dependent on lines, moorings, anchor cables and pilings in a hurricane. Such storms generate impressive swells but they are far from dangerous out past the 100-200 miles from the storm center. Looking at the wind forecasts, Bounty is unlikely to experience more than 40-50 knots and probably less. Sandy is apparently heading inland but once it gets there, it will still be a windy, wet system that will head east over northern New England and the Maritimes. I've been in the St Lawrence during the leftovers of a hurricane and I've been through the eye of a Category One in the Yucatan--both a bit blustery for a few hours but easily managed by a well found vessel. Now, once you start talking Cat Two and over, I'd really prefer to be by the fire at home!

[Roger Long]

Does anyone have a link for the Bounty SPOT page as posted in the OP?

[erster]

http://www.tallshipbounty.org/the-ship/location.php

[wizbang 13]

did she just log almost 60 miles in 3 hours?

[Reynard38]

Does it look like Bounty is turning westward now?
Never looked at the ship tracker page before. Very interesting. It does look like most traffic is giving Sandy a very wide berth.

[erster]

Does it look like Bounty is turning westward now?

It looks like he has rounded the point off of Hatteras.

[Reynard38]

It looks like he has rounded the point off of Hatteras.

Thanks. As a lake and coastal sailer I'm unfamiliar with a lot of this. As a commercial pilot I'm accustomed to looking at the weather, but 450 knots gives you a lot of options!
I've gotta fly through DCA tonight, so I've been watching things up there.
It does seem Bounty is closer to the storm than most other vessels, but from what I've read you want to avoid the NE side of the circulation?

[erster]

The storm appears to be maintaining a north by northeast track and it appears that the boat tracked a bit to the west as he was a ways offshore when off of the month of the bay and a bit south east of it. The winds are averaging about 40 mph on the west side right now along the barrier islands. But where is is now if the gulf stream is running with any speed to the north, the seas are not really friendly or seperated either against the winds. He may round the knuckle south of Cape Lookout and head into Beaufort for a stop as many do if he has encountered mechanical or rigging problems or just needs a break. But by comparison, his vessel is still a boat, not a ship when dealing with this set of circumstances, IMO. i bet if there is some youths on the boat with little sailing experiences or experiences at sea, then they will probably kiss the ground at the dock when they reach one too.

[Tom Hunter]

If you compare the course with Sandy's course it looks like he is trying to get past the storm by going west of it. That should keep him out of the dangerous quadrant if the storm stays on the predicted track. He might even be past it already.

[erster]

This is the closest bouy location offshore.

	E
	Wave Steepness (STEEPNESS):	STEEP

http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=41001

[Thad]

Wind ENE looks like they are not past the storm and wind against current will be steep and you can't go west of the stream without getting involved with sandbanks. Tricky. Or better dangerous.

[rbgarr]

Wind ENE looks like they are not past the storm and wind against current will be steep and you can't go west of the stream without getting involved with sandbanks. Tricky. Or better dangerous.

Cutting it close, especially if something goes wrong. http://www.sailwx.info/shiptrack/shiplocations.phtml

[Arizona Bay]

Looks to be about 100nm north of Sandy

http://www.sailwx.info/shiptrack/shiplocations.phtml?lat=34.4&lon=-073.21&radius=500

[Hwyl]

As long as nothing breaks and they have bullet proof sails, the wind is in the right direction.
Beaufort is not an option

[erster]

Beaufort is not an option

Oh we need to look and hope for the best. If the storm continues moving at a decent speed northeast, its quite possible the wind will turn to the west or at the best southwest as they clear the second set of shoals sticking out from the Lookout. This will make an easy slide to the inlet. But we shall see as we sit in the comfort of our arm chairs.

[Thad]

Bare poles?

[Hwyl]

I'd say storm staysail or two, her course is abeam to the apparent wind now, he can't afford to run off and has to keep making way.Basically no options and no redundancy, I'm still stupefied, didn't they hear about the Phantome

[rbgarr]

The narrow right angle turns into Beaufort Inlet aren't something I'd want to attempt in Bounty even in calm weather, much less in surging waves and some wind. She's got twin screws, but still....

There's also a sunken wreck right inside the harbor that the Spirit of Massachusetts hung up on briefly a few years ago, but it was dead calm.

[erster]

He can get in Beaufort inlet with no problems at all. The port gets ships and the military takes their ships in and out of it even though shoaling on the east side on the inside is pretty extreme which narrows the main shipping channel. One way or the other he will be facing wind on his nose unless he falls off and continues on down way offshore to Florida later this evening. Oh well ..

[erster]

If you look at the spot now, he is making a course correction. It shows that he has slipped a bit more to right or west of his direction. I don't know how to post any link pictures these days. But the update is here. So he has chosen to stay inshore and maybe at the least head towards Charleston by way Frying Pan Shoals off of Cape Fear and Wilmington area.

http://www.tallshipbounty.org/the-ship/location.php

[Willin']

Woof, wave height of 11 meters dead ahead of Bounty! Can't be a very comfortable ride

http://www.sailwx.info/wxobs/wavehei...167&radius=180

[Paul Girouard]

Is this where we cue the Gilligan's Island song? If not for the courage of the fearless crew>>>

[rbgarr]

He can get in Beaufort inlet with no problems at all. The port gets ships and the military takes their ships in and out of it even though shoaling on the east side on the inside is pretty extreme which narrows the main shipping channel. One way or the other he will be facing wind on his nose unless he falls off and continues on down way offshore to Florida later this evening. Oh well ..

I see. I was thinking of the yacht harbor there and the Duke Marine Institute (?) as the place for them to tie up if necessary.

[Dryfeet]

Looks to be about 100nm north of Sandy

http://www.sailwx.info/shiptrack/shiplocations.phtml?lat=34.4&lon=-073.21&radius=500

I must confess, he's not at all where I would have expected. I think I understand what he's trying to do by keeping on the west side of the storm. The winds are favorable for a square rigger and he's out of the dangerous semicircle, but..... That's a pretty ballsey, move and if it didn't work, there'd be no options and no forgiveness. I'd have gon due SE from Halifax for quite some time if I felt I couldn't stay in port. Wonders never cease!

[SMARTINSEN]

[Binnacle Bat]

I must confess, he's not at all where I would have expected. I think I understand what he's trying to do by keeping on the west side of the storm. The winds are favorable for a square rigger and he's out of the dangerous semicircle, but..... That's a pretty ballsey, move and if it didn't work, there'd be no options and no forgiveness. I'd have gon due SE from Halifax for quite some time if I felt I couldn't stay in port. Wonders never cease!

Ballsey is an understatement. What could possibly go wrong?

[gilberj]

He has done a classic evasion of a TRS. Well done. All-be-it with the wonderful support from the Hurricane Centre and other weather information. He has a profound advantage over an old time skipper. I hope they get a few photos and perhaps video's of the action.

[Woxbox]

Well, if the boat survives it, they may set some sort of record for the voyage. FYI, they do have a nearly new and very sophisticated diesel/electric drive in that ship.

[erster]

Something does not look right with that spot Steve. Thats almost the same position as it was the middle of the afternoon, unless the spot is not updating or if its broken.

[Vince Brennan]

I once had an O7 explain to me in small words and three-part harmony that "Rocks and Shoals" was nothing but a collection of hare-brained ideas which had actually worked.

Who knew?

[Harbormaster]

Just an update from their facebook page-

"Bounty Update 10/28 2012 11PM EST

One of Bounty's generators has failed....they are taking on more water than they would like.

THE CREW AND BOUNTY ARE SAFE.....

At 2118 hrs The Coast Guard issued an Urgent Marine Information Broadcast for the HMS Bounty taking on water 90 miles SE of Cape Hatteras, with 15+ people aboard....THAT HAS BEEN RESCINDED...

Tracie is in contact with the Coast Guard at this very moment and is closely monitoring the situation.
Tracie has also spoken to Captain Robin who confirmed that the Bounty and crew are safe.

The Captain will await till morning to determine if Bounty is in need of any assistance."

Ah, as long as nothing breaks....

[Hwyl]

Another update

2:55 AM EDT: Coast Guard spokesman David Weydert tells ABC News, “The Coast Guard received notification that the sailing vessel HMS Bounty was in distress. We responded by sending out a C-130 aircraft and we’re currently monitoring the situation.”

[reddog]

Our local radio station has reported, after being in contact with the US Coast Guard, that the Bounty has been or is being abandoned. All crew reported as being safe. sad.

Earl

[Trevor S.]

Just heard the report, I hope everyone is ok.

[skuthorp]

I did a trip in the Bounty, or a Bounty because I understand there are two, way back in the 1980's off Tahiti. Very sad indeed it sounds like the one I sailed on.

[Trevor S.]

Local news as of 06:00 eastern. C130 on site now, Coast Gaurd is dispatching a Cutter and Helicopters to remove crew. Crew is in two lifeboats.