college books have GOT to be a scam

[Phillip Allen]

$50 for a 7 year old, raggedy book

and you guys don't like Romney's high priced horses

[Horace]

$50 for a 7 year old, raggedy book

and you guys don't like Romney's high priced horses

Your education begins.

[Phillip Allen]

Your education begins.

I knew they were over priced but it still angers and shocks... it's a land grant university and they have forgotten that and charge millions of dollars just for parking

[seanz]

I knew they were over priced but it still angers and shocks... it's a land grant university and they have forgotten that and charge millions of dollars just for parking

Have they got free hitching posts?

[TomF]

Your education begins.

This.

Books are a horrifying price. The constant updating of editions is also, imo, a scam. Why can an old edition of Keats' poems or Hume's philosophy not be used - the gents have added new bits? There's more justification for other disciplines, but still a scam often.

[TomF]

I knew they were over priced but it still angers and shocks... it's a land grant university and they have forgotten that and charge millions of dollars just for parking

Often making up lost revenue for reduced government support.

[Phillip Allen]

Have they got free hitching posts?

there was a time that I might have tried that

[Paul Pless]

Phillip, you can probably get by without a new algebra book. . .

[B_B]

This.

Books are a horrifying price. The constant updating of editions is also, imo, a scam. Why can an old edition of Keats' poems or Hume's philosophy not be used - the gents have added new bits? There's more justification for other disciplines, but still a scam often.

I always thought the Prof's who put their books, often self published, on the required reading list to be the bigger scam artists. At least with Hume et. al. one can argue that certain interpretations have evolved, new nuances discovered, new correspondence unearthed, new corrollary things discovered, which may add, or not, to the poems (etc.). Not so much for Prof. I-got-a-lotta-books-to-sell-so-they-don't-take-up-so-much-space-in-my-parent's-basement.

[wharf rat]

I knew they were over priced but it still angers and shocks... it's a land grant university and they have forgotten that and charge millions of dollars just for parking

Haven't you looked at the price of new books yet? What's worse is that they won't buy many of them back. Textbook manufacturers have been trying to get rid of the used book market for years. Beware books that are sealed--don't break the seal until you absolutely know you're in that class--not on the wait list--or you'll be seated in another class. Break the seal and you own it.

You may check, but many colleges have a copy of the required textbooks in the library. If it's a book that you really don't use a lot, this may be an option. Check with the instructor and the library.

I purchased a used book the first year I went back for $75, and literally used it once, then couldn't resell it at the buyback at the end of the year. They decided not to use that textbook anymore and no one wanted them. That hurt.

[Phillip Allen]

Often making up lost revenue for reduced government support.

at the time of hs graduation (1967) it cost $100 per semester of 12 or more hours
it is now $7,174

do a simple ratio and see if that is close to normal inflation

[Bobby of Tulsa]

I read somethin once, Before a man starts to build a barn, he should count the cost.

[StevenBauer]

Just sell some stocks. That's what Ann and Mitt had to do when times got tough while they were in college.

[Paul Pless]

at the time of hs graduation (1967) it cost $100 per semester of 12 or more hours
it is now $7,174

do a simple ratio and see if that is close to normal inflation

When I started school in 1989 it was $360 per quarter. And when I graduated (um, five years later) it was $1,200 per quarter.

[Phillip Allen]

all the stocks I got are on rifles and shotguns... I"m keepin them

[Paul Pless]

Just sell some stocks. That's what Ann and Mitt had to do when times got tough while they were in college.

lol

[Phillip Allen]

When I started school in 1989 it was $360 per quarter. And when I graduated (um, five years later) it was $1,200 per quarter.

the price of caviar and white wine went up

[Kevin T]

[QUOTE=Phillip Allen;3508353]I knew they were over priced but it still angers and shocks... it's a land grant university and they have forgotten that and charge millions of dollars just for parking[/QUOTE]

Wow, when it's millions of dollars just to park your car, what's the tuition?

I'd seek out another school.

[Ian McColgin]

In the US the loss of government support has mainly been a loss of student aid, replacing grants with loans and less money at that. Those institutions that lived on government research grants are still profiting. New sourses of government funding that puts the debts on students are flowing to private for-profit institutions. And bloated administration salaries pioneered by BU's John Silber have pushed the idea of learning and disinterested scholarship right aside. I'm a believer that the real educational institutions can still be returned to their true calling, which may be as fatuous as the dreams of Roman Catholic nuns who fancy their church will follow Jesus. Sometimes one so loves the idea of an institution regardless of the evidence of corruption.

[Paul Pless]

You'll find that books tend to get cheaper in the upper level classes, especially in the humanities. In many upper level classes that I took in History or Economics, I was able to dispense with purchasing text books completely.

[Y Bar Ranch]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/29/ed...textbooks.html

[Phillip Allen]

[QUOTE=Kevin T;3508391]

I knew they were over priced but it still angers and shocks... it's a land grant university and they have forgotten that and charge millions of dollars just for parking[/QUOTE]

Wow, when it's millions of dollars just to park your car, what's the tuition?

I'd seek out another school.

they have thousands of parking spaces on campus and they are filled upo every day by 0800. Some years ago, a parking pass for the semester was close to $300

[Phillip Allen]

In the US the loss of government support has mainly been a loss of student aid, replacing grants with loans and less money at that. Those institutions that lived on government research grants are still profiting. New sourses of government funding that puts the debts on students are flowing to private for-profit institutions. And bloated administration salaries pioneered by BU's John Silber have pushed the idea of learning and disinterested scholarship right aside. I'm a believer that the real educational institutions can still be returned to their true calling, which may be as fatuous as the dreams of Roman Catholic nuns who fancy their church will follow Jesus. Sometimes one so loves the idea of an institution regardless of the evidence of corruption.

thank-you-Ian

[Phillip Allen]

my notion that our university is really a big football stadium with a university attached is being confirmed...
they charge a god-awful amount to park and during football games, you must move your car off campus so they can sell your parking spot to the fans

[Paul Pless]

my notion that our university is really a big football stadium with a university attached is being confirmed...

Razorbacks? Their football and basketball programs actually make enough money to fund the rest of their athletic programs and still return money to the school's general fund each year. There's only about twenty schools that do so consistently. . .

they charge a god-awful amount to park and during football games, you must move your car off campus so they can sell your parking spot to the fans

Parking issues are hardly confined to universities that have football programs. Many schools, especially land grant schools find themselves a hundred years later in the middle of the downtown area of middling to large size city.

[Phillip Allen]

Razorbacks? Their football and basketball programs actually make enough money to fund the rest of their athletic programs and still return money to the school's general fund each year. There's only about twenty schools that do so consistently. . .

I haven't checked recently but in the past the athletic dept gave no monies to the general fund at all... coaches paid in the millions and every possible convience to staff and livestock

[Donn]

Be sure to check the internet. You might get lucky.

College textbooks online

[Canoeyawl]

$50 for a 7 year old, raggedy book

and you guys don't like Romney's high priced horses

Often making up lost revenue for reduced government support.

That support is now going toward Romney's horses, not textbooks

[Nanoose]

50 bucks?!! You got a deal!!

[George Jung]

Incredible scam - and with 4 in college, we've had to scramble. Compare prices in your bookstore to those on Amazon - make sure you're comparing the same editions - compare IBDN numbers. And Amazon will buy them back (at a big discount, of course). But beats buying new every time!

[Keith Wilson]

and you guys don't like Romney's high priced horses

Romney and Ryan have proposed drastically cutting Pell grants and other student aid. Look it up.

[The Bigfella]

They charge parking fees for bicycles?

[Phillip Allen]

They charge parking fees for bicycles?

not sure but it wouldn't surprise me at all... they certainly charge for motorcycles

[Phillip Allen]

Often making up lost revenue for reduced government support.

you DO understand that 'lost revenue' is defined as money inadvertently left in the students pocket?

[JBreeze]

....And bloated administration salaries pioneered by BU's John Silber have pushed the idea of learning and disinterested scholarship right aside. .

You sure? The institutions on the Boston side of the Charles River usually follow the lead of the schools on the Cambridge side.

At least BU had the sense to discontinue the football program...hence the slogan "Boston University Football - Undefeated since 1997!"

[leikec]

Phillip, you can probably get by without a new algebra book. . .

With Phillip's high I.Q the textbook is just there to make the other students feel better about themselves...

Jeff C

[Glen Longino]

With Phillip's high I.Q the textbook is just there to make the other students feel better about themselves...

Jeff C

Too danged funny!
It won't be two weeks before Phillip has a thread up here, "How To Write An Algebra Textbook"!

[TomF]

you DO understand that 'lost revenue' is defined as money inadvertently left in the students pocket?

I've 2 in university; the revenue stream is quite clear to me.

[Keith Wilson]

A very nasty little chart.

[Phillip Allen]

A very nasty little chart.

if you pay the teacher more, Johnny will be smarter... RIGHT?

[Shang]

That's why my syllabuses begin: "No Required Textbook."

If I require a textbook, no one actually reads the damned thing, [gawd knows, I don'].
But if I know my material, and the students and I actually observe, and learn, and enjoy the field we're studying...we all learn a lot, and enjoy what we're learning.

Ask me in a PM, and I'll tell you the name of our college.

[johnw]

if you pay the teacher more, Johnny will be smarter... RIGHT?

I don't think that chart represent the teachers being paid more. It represents fewer tax dollars supporting state colleges, for the most part.

And yes, textbooks are a scam. You can probably find algebra books written 100 years ago that are better than most of the current ones, and published cheaply by Dover. It's pretty well known in the book business that publishers will do little more than add a chart here and there so that the pages fall differently, and put the book out as a new edition. If you buy the old one, you won't be on the same page as the rest of the class.

There's an economist who published an open source textbook available for free, but do you think Greg Mankiw is going to assign that instead of his own, which has a list price of almost $300?

[Meli]

Limited print runs.
Uni and school text books have always been expensive.
$50 for a second hand copy of a 120 book isn't bad.
My girl just bought her second Psychology text for the year.
The difference is, over here, if you are a low income house hold, the gubby give her $1200 per semester to pay for books and puters

[Phillip Allen]

I don't think that chart represent the teachers being paid more. It represents fewer tax dollars supporting state colleges, for the most part.

And yes, textbooks are a scam. You can probably find algebra books written 100 years ago that are better than most of the current ones, and published cheaply by Dover. It's pretty well known in the book business that publishers will do little more than add a chart here and there so that the pages fall differently, and put the book out as a new edition. If you buy the old one, you won't be on the same page as the rest of the class.

There's an economist who published an open source textbook available for free, but do you think Greg Mankiw is going to assign that instead of his own, which has a list price of almost $300?

I do understand that, John... the education industry has no shame

[John Smith]

$50 for a 7 year old, raggedy book

and you guys don't like Romney's high priced horses

Strange analogy. I don't know anyone who complains about Romney's horse: just that he gets a tax deduction for it.

Textbooks are an interesting thing, and I know something about it, as my daughter wrote one.

These are not like novels that are sold to the general public, although the general public can buy them. These are tools of learning. The publisher of my daughter's book has sent her to a number of college book shows (that's not their technical name, but that's what they are) where representatives from many colleges and universities come to check out available text books on different topics. If a college likes a book, it will "adopt" it and it will be required for students at that college. Some books never get adopted. My daughter's has been adopted by a small, but growing, number of institutions.

The first 5000 books sold, my daughter gets $6 per. After that she gets more. The publisher puts in all the money to print, to send her to these shows to promote her book, and all of this gets a bit expensive.

This is the free market part of higher education. You should like this. These books are published by private companies who wish to make a profit.

Would you prefer some socialistic government subsidy?

[John Smith]

I always thought the Prof's who put their books, often self published, on the required reading list to be the bigger scam artists. At least with Hume et. al. one can argue that certain interpretations have evolved, new nuances discovered, new correspondence unearthed, new corrollary things discovered, which may add, or not, to the poems (etc.). Not so much for Prof. I-got-a-lotta-books-to-sell-so-they-don't-take-up-so-much-space-in-my-parent's-basement.

My daughter is a prof. She had no control over her book getting on the required list at her college.

[John Smith]

Haven't you looked at the price of new books yet? What's worse is that they won't buy many of them back. Textbook manufacturers have been trying to get rid of the used book market for years. Beware books that are sealed--don't break the seal until you absolutely know you're in that class--not on the wait list--or you'll be seated in another class. Break the seal and you own it.

You may check, but many colleges have a copy of the required textbooks in the library. If it's a book that you really don't use a lot, this may be an option. Check with the instructor and the library.

I purchased a used book the first year I went back for $75, and literally used it once, then couldn't resell it at the buyback at the end of the year. They decided not to use that textbook anymore and no one wanted them. That hurt.

Where's all the support for the free market? If the people who publish these books can't make a profit, these books will cease to be published.

Updates are frequently the inclusiion of new studies germaine to the book's subject. Or simply new history applicable to the topic. If the book is political science and concerns itself with presidential campaigns, it will have to be updated periodically. There is competition no just from used books, but from other new books. This is simply the private sector making money: capitalism. What are you all complaining about?

[John Smith]

I read somethin once, Before a man starts to build a barn, he should count the cost.

Applying this to college: Having known a lot of people who went that found the 3rd and 4th years were harder to pay for, I came to the conclusion that when one applies, one should get a contract for the 4 years of tuition, so no surprises pop up.

One of the things our president is fighting for, and getting no help from the other side of the aisle, is controlling the cost of going to college. Part of the ACA addressed this and took the banks out of the student loan business and the government, which was guaranteeing them anyway, loaned the money directly at lower interest.

I'm sure someone will ask, so I'll put this info here. "Student Success in College: Doing what works" is the name of my daughter's book. She had worked in the guidance office and frequently complained that there was nothing much on "how" to go through college. Eventually she was challenged to write a book, and she did. They (the publisher) have sent her at their expense to Florida, Nevada, upstate NY, and several other places to promote her book at book shows.

The subject of the book is pretty much a how to get the most out of going to college. How to find and access all the resources the college has, and make sure your college has the resources you will need for your education. That's an extreme oversimplification, but it fills a void she found and is an excellent tool for getting the most education out of your education.

If I may brag a bit about my dauhter, she went to Trenton State, and financing each successive year got more difficult. Christmas break of year three she gave us a great present; she had done all four years in 2 1/2, maintaining a 4.0 GPA and being the droms floor coordinator. She then went on for her Bachelor's and the Doctorate getting into progams where they defrayed enormous amounts of the cost.

[John Smith]

When I started school in 1989 it was $360 per quarter. And when I graduated (um, five years later) it was $1,200 per quarter.

that's why I think you should get a 4 year price going in.

[Keith Wilson]

I don't think that chart represent the teachers being paid more. It represents fewer tax dollars supporting state colleges, for the most part.

It certainly doesn't represent teachers being paid significantly more, and only part of it, not that much, is cost-shifting from the tax base to students. There are a lot of factors, few of which contribute to educating anyone.