USS Constitution to sail again

[J. Dillon]

http://news.yahoo.com/navys-oldest-c...195935576.html

[rbgarr]

A 'ten minute cruise'?? It takes longer than that to set the sails....

[johnw]

I see they fixed it. The first story I saw said it was the second time "in history" that she'd maneuvered under sail.

[capnharv]

"A ten minute cruise". Is that like "A Three Hour Tour"?
I read someplace else that they plan to hoist 4 sails instead of the 6 in 1997. Anybody heard more?

Thanks,

Harvey

[Yeadon]

Seems like they'd wait to see what the wind was doing before deciding what sails to put up. But it is run by a government agency, and it takes time to make decisions like that.

[orbb]

Seems like they'd wait to see what the wind was doing before deciding what sails to put up. But it is run by a government agency, and it takes time to make decisions like that.

Actually, there is a 534 page spec book on it.

[Hunky Dory]

I wonder how the cost of this short sail compares to the total restoration cost of the Morgan

[Dave_C]

I watched with interest the restoration that culminated in the 1997 sail event and was fortunate enough to see that in person. At the time, there was a lot of talk from the Constitution's PR apparatus that these sail events and regional port visits such as Marblehead 1997 would become regular events in the summer. None of that ever came to pass and It seems to me that the reason is that the Navy is uncomfortable with sailing and is terrified of taking risks with her under sail. I understand that world events and budget problems play a role here, but I can't help but wonder if the real reason is simply the perception that sailing her is very risky. This 10 minute frolic with a few sails up appears to be a compromise between those that would like her to remain a static display and those who would like her to be a little more active on the water. The 10 minutes of allocated time also suggests that they would rather not have the attendant fleet of onlookers and the seaborne crowd control problems they create either. My thinking is that if the ship is sound, then it should be sailed on a fairly regular basis. The problems of crew rotation and training could be solved by doing it on a regular basis instead of once a decade. If this happened a little more regularly, you would not need a 4x10 nautical mile safety zone set aside for her and an escort of 2 guided missile cruisers, 4 Coast Guard cutters, and 10 CG helicopters. A good start could be to plan on this 10 min of sailing thing every July 4 as long as you are taking her out for the turnaround anyway and let all of the VIP straphangers who crowd the deck for this cruise find other accommodations.

Just my view of it

[rbgarr]

Nat Wilson in East Boothbay made some or all of the sails shown in the photo and that's all she has IIRC.

The captains of the ship have traditionally served two year terms http://www.ussconstitutionmuseum.org...-constitution/
Given the limited amount of sea-time with her (especially compared to when she was in frigate service) I can understand how they are very, very careful about sailing her now, however well she's maintained.

Dave C- Can you tell us more about the crew rotation, how many crew there are assigned, whether volunteers are used and needed, etc.? Thx.

It will be instructive to see how well the Morgan does under sail, as a ship and as a program. I hope they will meet all their goals.

[Dave_C]

Let me clarify a bit about what I am saying. I am only suggesting that she be sailed in a limited manner in good conditions and in waters with adequate sea room and depth to allow for the limited experience of her crew. I am not suggesting that she should carry all of the sails in her sail plan and range up and down the coast on her own.

As for the crew issues, I have no specific knowledge as I am an outsider. From what I have read though, it appears that the Navy has set the assigned crew allocation for this ship to be adequate for the purposes of supporting her in the static display role. Fair enough. The problem is compounded in that these are modern sailors with "normal" modern Navy jobs such as "Aviation Ordnanceman" , "Electronic Technician", and "Fire Controlman". These specialties require regular training to maintain required certifications and career progression. The crew is also subject to the normal comings and goings of people being transferred elsewhere and/or leaving the Navy. When these sail events for some special occasion are planned in advance, the anticipated crew seems to be subjected to additional training in square rigged sail handling on such vessels as USCG Eagle and the Friendship of Salem. It seems to me that there should be enough time to allow for regular crew training while tied up to her berth in Charlestown as well as these field trips aboard other square riggers. If a slightly larger crew is required, I would think that cost would be small. The Coast Guard manages to keep the program aboard Eagle going without compromising the training of USCG personnel in the modern skills they require for their mission. I am also not proposing a sailing program anywhere near as ambitious as what is done with the Eagle. I think the Navy consulted a few experience ships masters for the 1997 event and I think the idea of auxiliary crew is a good idea that should be explored as a way to provide the needed manpower without the costs of a fully staffed crew.

[Gerarddm]

Thrilling. I would love to see her at sea.

BTW, have you ever been on board her at Charlestown? I did, many years ago, and the overwhelming impression I got was that this was no quaint relic, but a killing machine. Very intimidating in its day, no doubt.

The stewards of Victory and Cutty Sark will sigh when they see her sail again...

[Dave_C]

I live in the area and have been aboard many times. I love to visit the museum as well. When she sailed in 1997, most of the spectator fleet was kept well off to either side of the designated maneuver area by a fleet of CG auxiliaries. There were literally a 1000 boats of all kinds on the water that day and visibility was not great and you could not see the shore at times even though it was only 2 or 3 miles off. Most of the regional schooners were there that day and Constitution towered over everything. You could still see her very well on the horizon as our whale watch boat motored off for home around Gloucester's Eastern Point at the end of the day.

[Feazer]

After the last major refit in the late 90’s the Charlestown shops undertook construction of a bunch of new spars and undertaking that they were initially uncomfortable with. The shops and maintenance activity was run by Don Turner at the time and as a civil servant type he never wanted to take any risks or responsibility for what could be publicly perceived as a failure. The new spars ( tops & yards ) were being laminated after all the wood was liberally soaked in copper napthanate per NAVSEA specs for wood hull construction. As soon as somebody realized what this meant as far as glue joint integrity there was responsive course change by committee ( of course ) and I assume corrections were made — or at least hope so.

Once the rig was erected and set up and in anticipation for the big upcoming events to Marblehead and back it was decided to conduct a rigging examination and some static load testing by a firm I can’t recall. I believe the results of these tests and perhaps some other concerns with the vessel’s structure and age forced SUPSHIP and Command to throttle back on sailing her too vigorously. As the oldest listed and active ship in the USN nobody in the chain of command would want to take any responsibility should a failure occur to this old girl. Imagine goin down in naval history as the guy who broke the USS Constitution ! Though I can understand how people would like to see here legitimately sail again there really are too many unknowns associated with her and weather related events to make this possible given the way the USN or any government agency for that matter operates. I think visitors to the ship in the future will probably be able to sail her virtually on a screen some day but that is it.

Unfortunately maintaining a ship of this type in the USN system is quite unlike Mystic's operation. Like all branches of the services there is little continuity in command or corporate history regarding many of the decision that are linked to this ship. It's almost like a new commander shows up every couple of years and has to start all over. During the major refit work in the 90's I know first hand that politics got in the way of getting good repair contractors and as such a caulking crew from the West Coast ( Bay Ship & Yacht ) who were really competent and fully equipped for a job of this size and type were pushed off the job for reasons that to this day are unclear and suspect.

[Tom Galyen]

Back in 1960 something, when I was a 3rd class FTM on the USS Biddle, we were in Boston Naval Shipyard for post shakedown availability. My department needed some standard navy forms and I was told to go over to the Constitution to get some to tide us over. I off course did the traditional salutes etc. when boarding her without realizing that a group of civilians were right behind me. They almost didn't board her because they thought they had to do the same thing, and didn't know how. The Petty Officer of the Watch assured them that they were welcome and pointed out that I had to do what I did because she was a commissioned ship, but as taxpaying citizens they didn't have to.

I went down below where the modern crew lives, which is below the old gun decks etc. Actually in the old holds. I saw parts of her that most tourists don't even think about.

By the way, for those who may remember them, the forms I went to get were 1250 forms, without which you couldn't get anything.

I'm really glad to hear of her actually sailing, I think it makes her happy.

I'm also glad that on her last sail Walter Cronkhite (sp?) got to take the helm for a short spell.

[AndreasJordahlRhude]

Cool.

I escorted the lower portion of the main mast from Peshtigo, WI to Charlestown a number of years ago. 4 pieces 18" x 18" x 106 ft. in length. They were glued of Douglas fir lumber pressure presevative treated with ACZA. No copper napthanate was used. There is no harm to the glue line integrity with this preservative, the adhesive utilized and the techniques for gluing.

I escoted a second load a few years later from Peshtigo with additional mast parts. They were about 96 ft. in length. Can't recall if these were the upper portion of the main mast or slated for other masts.

I also know we manufactured some glued laminated timber parts for Old Ironsides with CCA treated Southern Pine lumber. She has white oak glued lmainated knees and some knees made in 1973 were red oak lumber pressure preservative treated with a FCAP (that treatment is no longer utilized) before gluing.

The ship is probably in better condition then she was in the War of 1812.

I certainly can understand the hesitation to take her out very often for sails or even just towing her around. he is a national shrine.

Andreas Jordahl Rhude

[Feazer]

Andreas

Sounds like you guys were perhaps the solution and called in to solve some problems. The spars I saw were tops and yards only — none of the massive lower sections. There were always discussions on issues of whether outside contractors should be used for a lot of the work or use the crew in the shops at Charlestown. In cases like spars and knees it was always a no-brainer to me to go with the big laminating firms who are set up and know best. The problems with using copper napthanate were driven by NAVSEA specs and were the same issues you experienced with the MCM's as I recall.

Is she structurally comparable to her fighting years of 1812 ? Tough if not impossible to say since nobody can certify what kind of shape she was in back then. Unless you have been down in the bowels of this ship like I have and seen her lower futtocks and other backbone and transverse members or been on the dock floor walking her bottom and looking closely I am going to have to hold off on such a pronouncement. Honestly I wished they had called your crew in for more of this work.

[Binnacle Bat]

I doubt she would stand up to repeated broadsides of the 24 pounders (Not that the current ones are fireable anyway).





All she got up today was the three topsails. There was only a breath of wind, and I'm not sure she had steerageway half the time. Don't know whether she dropped the tug in the end or not, I was on the other side.

She and my Thistle may have been the only ones out there under sail alone.

Allan
in the hills.

[callsign222]

Warning, strong opinion to follow.

Man. With all the money floating around in the defense sector, I would love to see a tiny percentage of that go to her (which would be more than enough). Commission her properly, sail the piss out of her around the world a la EAGLE, use it as a recruitment/promotional vehicle even. On the off chance she is lost, well that blows, but it sure beats braying about our proud naval history by trotting out this sorry exhibition, because the above is quite pathetic. A more neutered spectacle would be tough to find. I saw some other clips/photos on some news channels. It's like taking a dying dog out for one last walk around the block.

[callsign222]

Allan, where did you put in?

[Binnacle Bat]

Christophe

Winthrop Town Landing (707 Shirley St). Good all tide ramp into a protected cove. $5.00 for one day launch and parking. Still parking available on a Sunday in August when the USN was showing off their old sailboat.

The U.S. Constitution is a little like the family axe that has had a dozen new handles and a couple of new heads in the last two centuries. Not unlike great grand-mere's china, to be cherished and protected.

What we really need is a "reproduction" in the mode of Pride of Baltimore II. Something that could be reasonably authentic (not sure we need a full broadside of 24 pounders etc.), but still with a decent diesel hidden on the orlop deck, and a full set of canvas, courses to royals, studdin'sls and staysls all around. Let her sail around the Atlantic and the Med and show what we did 200 years ago. We could call her the Constellation, Chesapeake, or scale her back a tad & call her the Essex II.

In 2009, the Bat helped escort the tall ships out of Boston on their way to Halifax. Some were cautious and slow, some were just slow. Pride II struck me as well handled and fast. A very impressive display of seamanship and naval architecture. If the City of Baltimore and the State of Maryland can do that , the whole of the USA should be able to 10 times better.

Allan
in the hills.

[Garth Jones]

Christophe

Winthrop Town Landing (707 Shirley St). Good all tide ramp into a protected cove. $5.00 for one day launch and parking. Still parking available on a Sunday in August when the USN was showing off their old sailboat.

The U.S. Constitution is a little like the family axe that has had a dozen new handles and a couple of new heads in the last two centuries. Not unlike great grand-mere's china, to be cherished and protected.

What we really need is a "reproduction" in the mode of Pride of Baltimore II. Something that could be reasonably authentic (not sure we need a full broadside of 24 pounders etc.), but still with a decent diesel hidden on the orlop deck, and a full set of canvas, courses to royals, studdin'sls and staysls all around. Let her sail around the Atlantic and the Med and show what we did 200 years ago. We could call her the Constellation, Chesapeake, or scale her back a tad & call her the Essex II.

In 2009, the Bat helped escort the tall ships out of Boston on their way to Halifax. Some were cautious and slow, some were just slow. Pride II struck me as well handled and fast. A very impressive display of seamanship and naval architecture. If the City of Baltimore and the State of Maryland can do that , the whole of the USA should be able to 10 times better.

Allan
in the hills.

I quite agree. Here in Pennsylvania we have the US Brig Niagara, a handy vessel that gets used. She even has a full compliment of operational 12 pounder carronades! A reproduction frigate from the early days of the Navy would be a great ambassador and would cost less than a rounding error in the DOD budget.

[callsign222]

There you go, Allan. Much better put than I. Thanks for the tip on the ramp, that looks like a good spot to explore Boston Harbor from. It would make for a great day trip.

[AndreasJordahlRhude]

Andreas

Sounds like you guys were perhaps the solution and called in to solve some problems. The spars I saw were tops and yards only — none of the massive lower sections. There were always discussions on issues of whether outside contractors should be used for a lot of the work or use the crew in the shops at Charlestown. In cases like spars and knees it was always a no-brainer to me to go with the big laminating firms who are set up and know best. The problems with using copper napthanate were driven by NAVSEA specs and were the same issues you experienced with the MCM's as I recall.

Is she structurally comparable to her fighting years of 1812 ? Tough if not impossible to say since nobody can certify what kind of shape she was in back then. Unless you have been down in the bowels of this ship like I have and seen her lower futtocks and other backbone and transverse members or been on the dock floor walking her bottom and looking closely I am going to have to hold off on such a pronouncement. Honestly I wished they had called your crew in for more of this work.

There was NO copper nathanate used on any of the structural glued laminated timber members manufactured for the MCM's built in the 1980s. At least none at the laminating plant. Maybe the ship builder was slathering some on after the members were manufactured. Lumber utilized in the glued laminated members was white oak, Douglas fir, and a wee bit of teak. No preservative treatments. Phenol resourcinol adhesive. White oak glued under elevated temperature, of course.

As for making glued laminated timbers for Old Ironsides, these are always competative bids. We don't get 'em all. Apparently a Califronia laminator supplied some mast parts. I remember while unloading our 106 ft. long main mast members the navy guys mentioning that the competitor had a devil of a time getting their materials delivered to the Navy Yard. We have been supplying members for this ship since the early 1960s.

Andreas Jordahl Rhude

[Gerarddm]

The idea of a reproduction Constitution is blasphemy, and I would scorn such a project.

I think the Navy is being overly cautious. With all the renovation she has had, I find it very difficult to think she can't handle, say, 10 knots of air under fighting sail. I say take her out every July 4th.

[Feazer]

There is a general assumption by many that since they USN has spent so much money and generated so much press on the latest refit of this ship that she must therefore be like new and as such fully capable of sailing off under a full press. The USN has indeed spent a lot of money in these periodic refit programs and continues to do so daily just keeping her in the berth and running the show so to speak. However nobody has ever claimed that she was totally rebuilt —not even close.

The last refit spent a lot of effort concerned with hog and sag issues and particularly hogging. The attached report will give the reader some idea of just how involved the Navy gets over this situation and it is not just the Constitution but all of their ships. During the work conducted during the late 90's availability there was much discussion and implementation of Humphrey's diagonal hull bracing designs and ways to modify or increase their effectiveness. A person could spend a considerable portion of his waking hours on this topic but the attachment will give you some idea. It should be noted however that to my knowledge nobody has gone deep into her framing or backbone structure to perform any real repairs and honestly I think the USN is afraid to even think about it.

www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a271335.pdf

[Rich Jones]

I heard that she also fired off a 21-gun salute. I wonder if they did it with a full broadside, a rippling broadside, or some guy on deck with a starter's pistol?


I know, I know, the cannons onboard don't work.

It was probably done with a small signaling cannon. Anyone know?

The only reason I'd ever want to go to Boston would be to visit that grand old ship.

[Binnacle Bat]

I heard that she also fired off a 21-gun salute. I wonder if they did it with a full broadside, a rippling broadside, or some guy on deck with a starter's pistol?


I know, I know, the cannons onboard don't work.

It was probably done with a small signaling cannon. Anyone know?

The only reason I'd ever want to go to Boston would be to visit that grand old ship.

My recollection is a very untraditional looking signal cannon. It looked very small next to a 24 pounder, but I'm not a judge of signal cannons. I'm sure it produces a satisfactory bang. I didn't hear the salutes but I was probably 5 miles away by then, on the other side of the airport. I'm a little deaf, but I'm sure I would have heard a full charge go off in a 24 pounder.

Allan

[rbgarr]

I'd be some worried with her bearing down on me ready to do battle. What a tough looking ship!

From a seamanship point of view I'd think those galleries on the aft quarters would be vulnerable to damage in storms....

[AndreasJordahlRhude]

New, glued laminated white oak diagonal riders were manufactured in the mid 1990s and installed prior to the 1997 sailing and 200th birthday. Twisty buggers.

Andreas

[Peerie Maa]

Glance through the report Feazer supplied a link to, she has a fairly significant 13 inch hog that apparently has not been addressed.

All boats of that era and construction methods developed a hog.

New, glued laminated white oak diagonal riders were manufactured in the mid 1990s and installed prior to the 1997 sailing and 200th birthday. Twisty buggers.

Andreas

Those replaced the originals which were removed during a previous rebuild and not refitted. They were designed to try to prevent the hog that they knew would develop. See the Morgan thread for the amount of work needed to remove hog. Basically reefing out all of the caulking, and then completely refastening once the hog is out. You then watch her hog again over the next few tens of years.

[RHarris]

My recollection is a very untraditional looking signal cannon. It looked very small next to a 24 pounder, but I'm not a judge of signal cannons. I'm sure it produces a satisfactory bang. I didn't hear the salutes but I was probably 5 miles away by then, on the other side of the airport. I'm a little deaf, but I'm sure I would have heard a full charge go off in a 24 pounder.

Allan

I've fired one of the signaling cannons. They use it every day at colors and for special occasions. They have two cannons forward, one port and one starboard that can fire. They are both outfitted with a 40mm signaling gun embedded in the 24 pounder. Every year 300 newly selected Chief Petty Officers from throughout the Navy spend a week onboard doing a mentorship program. They come in two waves of 150 each on two separate weeks. I was fortunate enough to be one of the Chief mentors in 2005. We were very blessed to get underway and were towed out to near Fort Independence as I recall.

[Binnacle Bat]

I've fired one of the signaling cannons. They use it every day at colors and for special occasions. They have two cannons forward, one port and one starboard that can fire. They are both outfitted with a 40mm signaling gun embedded in the 24 pounder. Every year 300 newly selected Chief Petty Officers from throughout the Navy spend a week onboard doing a mentorship program. They come in two waves of 150 each on two separate weeks. I was fortunate enough to be one of the Chief mentors in 2005. We were very blessed to get underway and were towed out to near Fort Independence as I recall.

Photo from the Boston Globe showing signal gun in use on Sunday.

My recollection of a separate signal cannon not buried in a 24 pounder was from a long time ago (15-20 years ?).

Allan

[rbgarr]

Great photo. Thanks

[esingleman]

Warning, strong opinion to follow.

Man. With all the money floating around in the defense sector, I would love to see a tiny percentage of that go to her (which would be more than enough). Commission her properly, sail the piss out of her around the world a la EAGLE, use it as a recruitment/promotional vehicle even. On the off chance she is lost, well that blows, but it sure beats braying about our proud naval history by trotting out this sorry exhibition, because the above is quite pathetic. A more neutered spectacle would be tough to find. I saw some other clips/photos on some news channels. It's like taking a dying dog out for one last walk around the block.

Sorry exhibition is right! If you are going to sail the damned thing then sail the damned thing. Three sails and no wind wow, give me a break.

[Peerie Maa]

From what I know of her condition, I'd say sail her. Of course you don't hazard her by pushing things beyond "normal" sailing conditions. If you want a static display fine, but I'd not call 10 miniutes basicly becalmed with minimal canvas during a weathering turn around, sailing.

Dunno why everyone is getting so wound up about this. A part of her maintenance regime has always been to move her from her berth, turn her around and berth her other side too in order to even up the effect of sun and shade. If they combine this evolution with setting some sails for a photo opportunity whilst doing it, why not?

[Peerie Maa]

Then call it a display, not sailing, because it isn't.

You are confusing the role of a publicist with that of a ship manager, remember publicists are a sub species of the genera journalist.
The press release was not for sailors, professional or amateur, but for the average numpty in the street.

[Feazer]

One final observation and I am out of here.

Removing or trying to remove any significant hog in a hull of this tonnage and unusual construction is a lot more involved that reefing and refastening. For one thing the USN has never been able to ascertain what an allowable amount of hog for this ship or even their minesweepers is. With the old style wooden purse seiners ( tuna boats ) hog and sag was always feared due to shaft alignment issues and I have seen more than once a coupling broke apart that moved as much as four inches. A nightmarish predicament for the yard who now has to try to get the couplings and drive train back together and aligned. When one of these hulls is launched you normally see very high pyrometer readings ( exhaust temps ) for a week until the hull settles back in and the loading on the shaft relaxes.

With the Constitution and the lack of accurate docking history all it would take is a poor or insufficient docking plan, i.e., inadequate keel block spacing, in the years past to aggravate hogging with a soft hull. Once a ship like this is up and if she is found to be improperly blocked, providing somebody catches it in time, corrective methods can be very time consuming, contentious and in worst cases the ship is re-floated and docked again. When I saw her up last time I don’t think they even had any removable sand boxes on the blocks for adjustments and keel work but I may be mistaken.

The caulking seams I saw were a complete mess and had been hacked, sawn, puttied and ruined by the mile during previous refits — who know how long ago. The caulking crew was keeping a blacksmith constantly hot tweaking and making irons in hopes of reefing all the crap out and trying to end up with something they could work to. This is very heavy planking and the outgage and depth of the seams was almost completely unidentifiable in many areas. As for refastening that is another chapter and all I dare say on that is new fasteners need a commensurate foundation to be truly effective.

What is acceptable hog and sag on an old hull like this ? I realize that the Humphrey system of diagonals has always been considered critical to this vessel maintaining here structural integrity for so long but as previous noted these diagonals were removed piecemeal years ago and IF she was improperly docked without them I can only imagine the results. To a nuts and bolts guy like me, who knows enough to stay out of the deeper water of the NA’s, there remains a considerable amount of latitude and uncertainty in determining what is allowable hog on older hulls of this type. Hulls with shaft logs and drive trains at least give you some workable bench marks or targets to work to. Of course these days it is lasers targets on deck or old style trammel lines but still I have seen my fair share of big wooden hulls develop a twist and all kinds of problems in long docking evolutions.

The seeming predicament with the USN engineers is that they are taught to make every attempt to dock their ships as close as possible to the waterborne profile/ her shape afloat. Obviously this is not something that applies easily to the Constitution. It can be achieved but it leaves a lot of head scratching and paranoia on the dock floor when you start to reef her out and take things apart. With old old heavy timber hulls like this that depend on soft copper drifts holding her knees, braces and big timbers together there is a lot of inherent give and take and the wrong movement may or may not be correctable. There are no easy clean cut answers to this ship and the older I get the more I can empathize with the USN and the crews who have maintained her.

[Gerarddm]

There is a general assumption by many that since they USN has spent so much money and generated so much press on the latest refit of this ship that she must therefore be like new and as such fully capable of sailing off under a full press.

To be accurate, I said under fighting sail, not a full press.

It was my understanding that hogging on warships was due to the weight of heavy cannon ( not to mention anchors and stores ) in the bow and stern, which naturally have less bouyancy than midships. She hasn't had iron cannon on board her for years.

A nice small romp periodically like in 1997 wouldn't kill her. I mean, you might as well lay her up like Victory or ( horribly ) like Cutty Sark, ack ack.

[J. Dillon]

I read all the replies to this thread and it's my thinking to take the old warrior out, set the topsails turn her around , just like they did the other day. But that's it. She is a National heritage and should be treated like it. She did her part in our history.

Commission her properly, sail the piss out of her around the world a la EAGLE, use it as a recruitment/promotional vehicle even

is like saying "lets ring the liberty bell to get another crack in it."

JD

[Binnacle Bat]

... It was my understanding that hogging on warships was due to the weight of heavy cannon ( not to mention anchors and stores ) in the bow and stern, which naturally have less bouyancy than midships. She hasn't had iron cannon on board her for years. ..

Any wood ship that isn't a shaped like a barge will hog eventually, not just warships. Long overhangs, the fine ends and light scantlings will accelerate the process. Reverse sheer, reverse sloped transoms, plumb bows and full ends minimize it. The bigger the ship, the worse the problem. The fact the Constitution had diagonal riders from the start is probably one of the main reasons shes still afloat, and that the hogging problem was recognized more than 200 hundred years ago when she was designed.

Allan

[Peerie Maa]

It was my understanding that hogging on warships was due to the weight of heavy cannon ( not to mention anchors and stores ) in the bow and stern, which naturally have less bouyancy than midships. She hasn't had iron cannon on board her for years.

It is much more than just the cannon. There is a lot of weight in the structure at the ends with little buoyany to support it. A Technical Paper was prepared a long time back that proposed a method to minimise hog. You prepared a longitudinal distribution of the the ship, including everything exept ballast. You then compared this with the longitudinal distribution of buoyancy when floating at her marks. The difference indicates how you need to distribute the ballast to minimise the difference between the buoyancy and weight, thereby minimising the hog. The ballast obviously needs to be piled up near the mid length and kept right out of the ends.

[SBrookman]

A while back I was visiting the San Diego Maritime Museum and while taking an early morning tour of the HMS Surprise (Rose) a 92 y/o docent told me a fascinating story of how he had served on Old Ironsides and sailed through the Panama Canal to and toured the West Coast. He said they had a full crew, even a compliment of marines. Now that was a restorations and voyage! RESTORATION AND GRAND TOUR (1927-1934)

[rbgarr]

Interesting link. Thanks.