Sex, lies, and Julian Assange

[MiddleAgesMan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0oZ8j3I2ac

It's a long video so when you find the time to watch the whole thing let's....

Discuss.

[The Bigfella]

Already discussed, on Ozpol.

[Meli]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0oZ8j3I2ac

It's a long video so when you find the time to watch the whole thing let's....

Discuss.

Thanks MAM
I missed it here.
It's up to 4corners usual excellent standards of journalism.

it's well worth the watch if you wants a well researched and impartial precis of what's going on with the Assange case.
Casts some interesting reflections on the stories of the two women "Rape" accusers.

[skuthorp]

Two interesting statements from the US.
"The United States is not a party to the 1954 OAS Convention on Diplomatic Asylum and does not recognize the concept of diplomatic asylum as a matter of international law," the office of Spokesperson Victoria Nuland said in a Friday statement. "We believe this is a bilateral issue between Ecuador and the United Kingdom and that the OAS has no role to play in this matter."
http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/po...lomatic_asylum


"The Sydney Morning Herald reports that diplomatic cables they obtained show the U.S. investigation into possible criminal conduct by Julian Assange has been ongoing for more than a year, despite denials by the U.S. State Department and the Australian Foreign Minister. Further, the Australian diplomats expect that the U.S. will seek to extradite Assange to the U.S. on charges including espionage and conspiracy relating to the release of classified information by WikiLeaks."
http://www.smh.com.au/national/us-in...817-24e1l.html

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

According to the New York Times Assange is not likely to go anywhere because the UK had said it would arrest him on that warrant from Sweden if he tries to get out of the Ecuadorian embassy. He can see the airport from his window but is not likely to get there for a getaway. He has a mattres on the floor in a spare room and gets to eat alot of carry out which is all dutifully inspected by the police that surround the embassy.
He has cut a wide swath and played the celebrity. He has run up huge legal costs which others have promised to be good for. It's time he live on his own dime.

[Meli]

Like him or not, egotist he probably is (most great freedom fighters have huge ego's)

He is performing a service that the world in general needs, a human rights watchdog.

I think that organisations like sea shepherd, Amnisty,Greenpeace and Wikileaks have a role to play.
No one's asking anyone who feels these organisations are un needed to pay.

[skuthorp]

Governments and their military and security apparatus hate him not so much because of what he published, but because of the example he has set. Parties abovementioned alway want increasing amounts of control, it's part of their career path. Other threads on facial recognition technology and telco snooping and recording are relevant.

[Gerarddm]

I have a hard time equating the Pentagon Papers leak of Daniel Ellsberg, which I consider targeted and principled, with Assange, who seems to have an ethos of I'll release anything because I can, look at me, look at me. Ellsberg, BTW, completely backs Wikileaks.

[Dr. Arthur Trollingson]

I have a hard time equating the Pentagon Papers leak of Daniel Ellsberg, which I consider targeted and principled, with Assange, who seems to have an ethos of I'll release anything because I can, look at me, look at me. Ellsberg, BTW, completely backs Wikileaks.

WL released something like 1% of all the diplomatic cables in their possession. It was a Gov. guy who gave up the security key to the other 99% in his book. That's hardly releasing anything they can. Many prognosticators believe that there must be stuff WL holds, but haven't released that has the US government interested in Assange.

FWIW I heard Ellsberg yesterday describe Assange's alleged crime as "telling the truth." He sees himself and Assange as equals in their actions, and believes that as a foreign national Assange should have greater protection under the law than he enjoyed himself. Then Ellsberg mentioned the inconvenient fact that new anti-terrorism laws subject Assange to a life in prison without charge, something Ellsberg would never have dreamed of being threatened with.

Thanks for the vid, MAM.

[Meli]

I really doesn't matter if Assange is a selk publicist "look at me" nerd.
He's putting in the time and will to bring things out that the world needs to know.

The watergate guys would have done the same if the Internet had been around. And you guys did need to know about that didn't you?

[MiddleAgesMan]

Thank you, Mell, and thank you Dr. Trollingson for your thoughts on this. I agree.

The video sure makes it look like there's something fishy going on in Sweden.

[The Bigfella]

The video is nothing better than an attempt at trial by media.

[MiddleAgesMan]

The video is nothing better than an attempt at trial by media.

You know that?

How?

Let's hear about how you recently consulted (for big bucks, of course) for the Swedish prosecutor's office.

[The Bigfella]

You can do better than that can't you MAM... do try and drag yourself out of the gutter occasionally eh?

Here's an opinion piece that I posted on it, as mentioned, in the Ozpol thread a few days ago....

Chris Kenny has it spot on in an opinion piece in the Oz (that'd be The Australian newspaper to you).

"Julian Assange is an expert self-publicist, anarchist, egotist and, it seems, a coward. He has been irresponsible in the way he has divulged massive amounts of sensitive government material.

"Unlike a whistleblower who reveals particular information to expose wrongdoing or unethical behaviour, Mr Assange, through Wikileaks, seems to have simply dumped in the public domain reams of material designed to embarrass nation states, especially of course, the great Satan, the United States. This reflects the anti-Americanism of the extreme left. It has also shown a lack of regard for organisations, officers and individuals who have been humiliated, exposed and even endangered by these leaks.

"The US soldier who allegedly betrayed his country by leaking to Mr Assange large amounts of classified material, Bradley Manning, is in prison facing charges. Mr Assange apparently fears a similar fate for receiving and disseminating the material. In my view, the US would be unlikely to pursue such a case – because of the adverse publicity and diplomatic tensions it would generate around the world, and because clearly the greater crime is the leaking from within, rather than the acceptance of the leak. Most journalists would happily receive classified material, if not encourage its leaking. Most, we hope, would also be careful about what they revealed and how – always with a mind to the public interest.

"Mr Assange is wanted in Sweden to face sexual assault allegations. Anyone facing such charges should confront them, not run and hide. If he is innocent, let him demonstrate that. Sweden is a modern, socially progressive and fair democracy; hardly a nation where legal rights are trampled.

"Instead, Mr Assange seeks the refuge of Ecuador, a nation with a suspect record on human rights, and lectures the UK and Australia for the way they have apparently abandoned him. Apart from displaying an almost delusional assessment of his own importance, a paranoia about his likely treatment by the US, and hypocritical approach to how the rule of law should be exercised, Mr Assange shows a pathetic inability to face up to the consequences of his own actions.

"He has made himself into a hero for the disaffected left, anti-establishment activists and anti-American malcontents around the globe. (In Australia he has become an unlikely and unworthy hero to this cohort - much like David Hicks.) The US would be foolish to turn him into any more of a martyr. Ecuador is welcome to him. But if the rule of law is to prevail, the UK should do as it promises, and extradite him to Sweden."

[Meli]

You know that?

How?

Let's hear about how you recently consulted (for big bucks, of course) for the Swedish prosecutor's office.

'
Don't worry MAM, 4 Corners is an ABC program and the host kerry O'Brian generally distained by those that would rather not have there little worlds upset by good investigative journalism.

It's easier and more politically convenient for some to read the word "rape" and look no deeper.

I wonder if Chris Kenny watched 4 corners?

[MiddleAgesMan]

You can do better than that can't you MAM...
Here's an opinion piece that I posted on it, as mentioned, in the Ozpol thread a few days ago....

You can do better than that, surely, Shirley.

You advise world leaders on a regular basis and all you care to cite is something you posted on the WBF "a few days ago..."?

[Steve McMahon]

Egotistical anarchist meglomaniac. Much like Paul Watson of the SS. Perhaps a worthwhile cause or causes, but executed in a way that endangers innocent peoples lives because they think the end justifies the means and damn the collateral damage to innocents. The sheep will follow him right off the edge of the cliff. Off with his head! (figuratively speaking of course)

[Meli]

So steve, I'll ask the question again. Did the world need to know about Watergate?

[Steve McMahon]

So steve, I'll ask the question again. Did the world need to know about Watergate?

Maybe, probably not, but perhaps it was a good thing.

My turn for a question: Is an apple the same as an orange just because they are both round?
Did the release of the watergate tapes put any American lives in danger on foreign soil?

[WX]

Maybe, probably not, but perhaps it was a good thing.

My turn for a question: Is an apple the same as an orange just because they are both round?
Did the release of the watergate tapes put any American lives in danger on foreign soil?

Who knows but it may have saved a few. It certainly slowed down the kill ratio of civilians in Laos and Vietnam.

[WX]

It seems to me that it's okay to bomb and maim the crap out of two countries, ruin the lives of thousands of service personal and the lives of their families but it's not okay to tell the world what is wrong with doing it.

[Clarkey]

The thing I find perplexing about this is the apparently consistent refusal of Sweden to interview Assange in the UK about the allegations, by video link or face-to-face.

[WX]

The thing I find perplexing about this is the apparently consistent refusal of Sweden to interview Assange in the UK about the allegations, by video link or face-to-face.

Exactly.

[The Bigfella]

The thing I find perplexing about this is the apparently consistent refusal of Sweden to interview Assange in the UK about the allegations, by video link or face-to-face.

If someone from overseas allegedly commited a serious crime (I'm amazed at those who don't seem to think rape is a serious crime... and who take the word of the media as gospel)... fled the scene of the alleged crime... say New York, for instance.... and the authorities found that person in a third country and requested their extradition to the US to face trial.... would you be happy for them to be "interviewed" overseas.... or would you want them back to face trial?

[Clarkey]

If someone from overseas allegedly commited a serious crime (I'm amazed at those who don't seem to think rape is a serious crime... and who take the word of the media as gospel)... fled the scene of the alleged crime... say New York, for instance.... and the authorities found that person in a third country and requested their extradition to the US to face trial.... would you be happy for them to be "interviewed" overseas.... or would you want them back to face trial?

Why don't they charge him then?

[The Bigfella]

Why don't they charge him then?

Because he isn't on Swedish soil.

He's lost his court case against his extradition to Sweden.... where he will be charged. He's exhausted all legal means of appeal... and he still won't face his accusers. He's just a two bit coward.

[PeterSibley]

Ian is a firm disbeliever in conspiracies, he knows it doesn't happened and that politicians always tell the truth and that their promises are worth betting your life one .Good on you Ian .

[Meli]

Maybe, probably not, but perhaps it was a good thing.

My turn for a question: Is an apple the same as an orange just because they are both round?
Did the release of the watergate tapes put any American lives in danger on foreign soil?

No but it made the rebubs stink for a while

Are you serious?
You would rather have remained ignorant?

I think some people in afganistan and iraq might be happier for Wikileaks.
There are more lives in the world than in 40.4230° N, 98.7372° W

[Meli]

Because he isn't on Swedish soil.

He's lost his court case against his extradition to Sweden.... where he will be charged. He's exhausted all legal means of appeal... and he still won't face his accusers. He's just a two bit coward.

Ian, did you actually watch all of the 4 corners report?

[Meli]

If someone from overseas allegedly commited a serious crime (I'm amazed at those who don't seem to think rape is a serious crime... and who take the word of the media as gospel)... fled the scene of the alleged crime... say New York, for instance.... and the authorities found that person in a third country and requested their extradition to the US to face trial.... would you be happy for them to be "interviewed" overseas.... or would you want them back to face trial?

How was this rape Ian? details please and then get back to us.
he didn't flee, he was told he could go by the swedish prosicutor or was she lying to 4 corners too?
He was told he was free to go and went to london, then they changed their minds.
One of the accusors at least thought it was a misunderstaning.
Did you watch 4 corners?

[PeterSibley]

Ian, did you actually watch all of the 4 corners report?

Ian doesn't believe "media", just government .

[WX]

Ian doesn't believe "media", just government .

I thought he only believed what was printed in the Oz.

[Meli]

Who knows but it may have saved a few. It certainly slowed down the kill ratio of civilians in Laos and Vietnam.

Laconical understatement of the month award due here !!

[Meli]

coming in IAN???
the little light is on but there is no one home.
Just dont let him off the hook this time.
Did he watch the 4 corners report or not?

[The Bigfella]

Geez, on the insults to facts ratio, I'd say you folks are sore losers.

[PeterSibley]

If it's the Oz versus 4 Corners I'll take 4 Corners.

[Meli]

so Ian.
Did you actually watch the 4 corners report ?

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

So steve, I'll ask the question again. Did the world need to know about Watergate?

I was around when the Watergate story broke and the revelation had ABSOLUTLY NOTHING to do with the official secrets of the United States. The possibility the president or people in the White House were involved in some illegal activities was always in the background. The problem for journalists ( these were people with names and reputations to protect) was to come up with reliable information to confirm their suspicions. Everything they (Woodward and Bernstien the principles that unwound the story) did was legal and protected by the First Amendment to our constitution.
If you want to compare your fellow Australian to some of the greats of American journalism you had better be informed about who did what and what wrongs were rightfully addressed in the process.
As it stand two very well known Australians have gone to play in the limelights of London only to have themselves the well publicized objects of British prosecutors. I am surprised you don't find that a cautionary tale.

[Dr. Arthur Trollingson]

Perhaps a worthwhile cause or causes, but executed in a way that endangers innocent peoples lives because they think the end justifies the means and damn the collateral damage to innocents.

This particular talking point has been repeated to death, and it's 100% false. Nobody, anywhere, ever, has been hurt physically by the actions of WL. DOD officials have stated so plainly.

Stop with the slander. It's not only false, but sleazy too. Engage brain, then speak.

[Dr. Arthur Trollingson]

Ian, did you actually watch all of the 4 corners report?

I'll go out on a limb and say that based on his comments here, no, he did not. He is obviously ignorant of the facts, and prefers to use his own. Trying to engage him on this topic would be like arguing religion with Sammy.

[Steve McMahon]

This particular talking point has been repeated to death, and it's 100% false. Nobody, anywhere, ever, has been hurt physically by the actions of WL. DOD officials have stated so plainly.

Stop with the slander. It's not only false, but sleazy too. Engage brain, then speak.

Hmmm. Rebuked by an anonymous internet troll! I am shattered.

Excuse me DrAT, but I'll form my own opinions thanks.

[B_B]

The thing I find perplexing about this is the apparently consistent refusal of Sweden to interview Assange in the UK about the allegations, by video link or face-to-face.

The thing I find perplexing about this is the apparently consistent refusal of Sweden to interview Assange in the UK about the allegations, by video link or face-to-face.

If someone from overseas allegedly commited a serious crime (I'm amazed at those who don't seem to think rape is a serious crime... and who take the word of the media as gospel)... fled the scene of the alleged crime... say New York, for instance.... and the authorities found that person in a third country and requested their extradition to the US to face trial.... would you be happy for them to be "interviewed" overseas.... or would you want them back to face trial?

Ah, you didn't watch the video!

According to the video, at the 12 minute mark, he was interviewed by the the Swedish police, in Sweden, ten days after the allegations. He was not charged or arrested at that time. He was also told at that time that he was free to leave the country while the inquiry continued. His lawyer (why would one engage a lawyer if one wasn't interacting with the police?) told him in mid-September that the Prosecutor was not going ahead with charges and that Assange was free to leave Sweden - meaning he was still IN Sweden a three or more weeks after the allegations. He left Sweden on September 27 - more than a month after the police investigation started.

Timeline:
Aug. 20 - two women who had had consensual intercourse with Assange went to the Police to see if they could compel him to have an STD test done should he refuse to get one - they HAD NOT asked him for one yet.
Aug. 20 - police issue arrest warrant, but don't execute it.
Aug. 30th - Assange is interviewed by police in Sweden - he's not arrested. (29 minutes into vid)
Sept. 15th - is told by the Prosecutor he is free to leave Sweden (30:17 mark).
Sept. 27th - leaves Sweden. He'd waited in Sweden for 5 weeks to see the investigation conclude (29:40 or so).

Sounds like co-operation to me, Ian. Sounds like he did the right thing at the time. Sounds like Swedish prosecutors are playing foul.

[Dr. Arthur Trollingson]

Hmmm. Rebuked by an anonymous internet troll! I am shattered.

Excuse me DrAT, but I'll form my own opinions thanks.

Cool! I'm glad I could shatter your world view.

Do you have any opinions on Fluoridated water, or vaccines? I know that the government tells us these things are OK, but I'm not sure. How about Area 51? They say there's no aliens, but I just know that they've landed. Do you agree with the experts, or do you make up your own facts to support entirely different conclusions? I ask, because I'd like some input from a free-thinker like yourself.

[Steve McMahon]

Do I agree with the experts? You would need to let me know what your definition of an expert is. To me the term is a moving target.
Fluoridated water - Nope, not any more.
Vaccines - Some
Area 51 - I don't have the slightest clue but what I hear amuses me.
Truth in media - not much. In most of the stories I have done with the media they have gotten things ass-backwards despite having been given the facts in a clear concise hard copy fashion. CBC was the rare exception of keeping the facts strait and not oversensationalizing things.

[WX]

Ah, you didn't watch the video!

According to the video, at the 12 minute mark, he was interviewed by the the Swedish police, in Sweden, ten days after the allegations. He was not charged or arrested at that time. He was also told at that time that he was free to leave the country while the inquiry continued. His lawyer (why would one engage a lawyer if one wasn't interacting with the police?) told him in mid-September that the Prosecutor was not going ahead with charges and that Assange was free to leave Sweden - meaning he was still IN Sweden a three or more weeks after the allegations. He left Sweden on September 27 - more than a month after the police investigation started.

Timeline:
Aug. 20 - two women who had had consensual intercourse with Assange went to the Police to see if they could compel him to have an STD test done should he refuse to get one - they HAD NOT asked him for one yet.
Aug. 20 - police issue arrest warrant, but don't execute it.
Aug. 30th - Assange is interviewed by police in Sweden - he's not arrested. (29 minutes into vid)
Sept. 15th - is told by the Prosecutor he is free to leave Sweden (30:17 mark).
Sept. 27th - leaves Sweden. He'd waited in Sweden for 5 weeks to see the investigation conclude (29:40 or so).

Sounds like co-operation to me, Ian. Sounds like he did the right thing at the time. Sounds like Swedish prosecutors are playing foul.

Thank you B_B, some common sense at last.

[The Bigfella]

Ah, you didn't watch the video!

According to the video, at the 12 minute mark, he was interviewed by the the Swedish police, in Sweden, ten days after the allegations. He was not charged or arrested at that time. He was also told at that time that he was free to leave the country while the inquiry continued. His lawyer (why would one engage a lawyer if one wasn't interacting with the police?) told him in mid-September that the Prosecutor was not going ahead with charges and that Assange was free to leave Sweden - meaning he was still IN Sweden a three or more weeks after the allegations. He left Sweden on September 27 - more than a month after the police investigation started.

Timeline:
Aug. 20 - two women who had had consensual intercourse with Assange went to the Police to see if they could compel him to have an STD test done should he refuse to get one - they HAD NOT asked him for one yet.
Aug. 20 - police issue arrest warrant, but don't execute it.
Aug. 30th - Assange is interviewed by police in Sweden - he's not arrested. (29 minutes into vid)
Sept. 15th - is told by the Prosecutor he is free to leave Sweden (30:17 mark).
Sept. 27th - leaves Sweden. He'd waited in Sweden for 5 weeks to see the investigation conclude (29:40 or so).

Sounds like co-operation to me, Ian. Sounds like he did the right thing at the time. Sounds like Swedish prosecutors are playing foul.

The supposed quote of mine included in your post includes words I did not write. Why?

Thank you B_B, some common sense at last.

What? Including Clarkey's words in a quote purportedly written by me is common sense? Its either an error on B-B's part or outright dickheadedness. B-B can tell us which.

[PeterSibley]

Did you watch the video Ian ? A simple yes or no will be sufficient.

[The Bigfella]

Did you watch the video Ian ? A simple yes or no will be sufficient.

Geez mate.... don't spoil the fun. I was waiting to see how long she'd stalk me across various threads for.

[PeterSibley]

Still no answer, I think we are beginning to get the message Ian .

[Meli]

The number of women that stalk Ian. Gosh I reckon he's being hunted by a pack EEK. poor boar.

Did you watch it Ian?