The find of a life time.

[Jay Greer]

When I was in my teens, my father and I would go to a saw shop that was near our home in order to have our blades sharpened.
In the back of the store sat an odd looking piece of equipment on a special bench. The wall shelves behind it were jammed with accessories, milling attachments, taper attachments, divider plates and a mind boggling array of other items. It was a Rivett 608 precision bench lathe; so accurate that it could bore or turn for six inches or more to a tolerance of 0.00001", one one hundred thousanth of an inch! My father asked what the selling price was for the old lathe and was given an answer that he felt was beyond our budget. So he passed on buying it.

Now mind you, this is the same model lathe that was once owned by Nathaniel Herreshoff, the one that he used for making his incredible close tollerance drafting tools and special yacht fittings on. I have been dreaming of that machine for well over half of my life. I even got to use it when I visited his son L. Francis Herreshoff 's shop in Marble Head. It only made the loss of that once in a lifetime opportunity more painful. I still dream of the terrific projects I could do with such a fantastic lathe.

Did I say that the machine was a once in a lifetime opportunity?
I just found out that opportunity sometimes knocks twice and woe be it to he who does not heed the call.

I was at a dinner party last week with some friends and one of them mentioned that he had an old lathe in his shop that was taking up precious space. It had come from the widow of one of his friends and he never used it. He asked if I might be able to find something to do with it it. All he wanted was for me to move it out of his shop.

Guess what?

I know own a duplicate of Nathaniel Herreshoff's Rivett 608 precision 8 inch bench lathe. It is one of less than 1800 that were ever made. Still in fantastic working order considering it has been a hundred and two years since it was made. I have some very special things I plan to do with it.
And, it is very very heavy it took six men to lift and load it into my trailer!
Jay

[mcdenny]

You deserve to gloat.

Denny Wolfe

[htom]

Great story, even better ending.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Absolutely right Jay, that will never happen again. Beautiful tool.

[andrewpatrol]

Is there a pic coming Jay, we would love to see it

[David G]

Jay - congratulations! Is this the one? One of the first woodworkers I ever worked for was an old German guy, who loved machinery. He had a lathe like this, and used it for custom hardware. I, being the young apprentice, was not allowed to mess with it... though he did allow me to watch his setup and his work. He wasn't much of a talker, but he sure would expound on that lathe, and what he was doing with it. That just made me want to try it even more. By the time I left him (having lasted longer than anyone ever had... he was a taciturn and sarcastic fellow, though an excellent craftsman) I still had never touched it.

Enjoy the heck out of it! And please do post fotos of your projects.

[Jay Greer]

Yes David, that is the lathe. It is indeed a thing of beauty, the entire machine is hand scraped and looks like it is covered with snow flakes. The purpose of hand scraping is to obtain an absolutely flat surface to the cast iron componets for a perfect fit. Hand scraping is done by bluing in on a flat granite plate and scraping off the high spots. The other reason is to allow for better adherance of way oil. This machine is also unique in that it has a powered cross feed. This is a picture of the lathe in my friends shop when I first saw it and nearly choked on my coffee. The brown stains are the result of a hundred years of oil accumulation, not rust.
Jay

[Larks]

Brilliant!!!

[Chip Chester]

Wander on over to practicalmachinist.com and browse a bit in the antique section. Lots of good info there for your lathe. On PM, keep your head down and 'listen' for awhile, to get the lay of the land. The forum owner wants to keep the discussion on the pro, rather than hobby, level... but antique discussions are permitted, and encouraged. They'll want to see the pictures, too, after you get signed up.

So... wooden boats, antique machine tools... all you need now is to start dabbling in antique fly rod collecting and pre-1930s aircraft to ensure your ultimate economic demise.

Chip

[rbgarr]

'Trustee From The Toolroom"!

[PeterSibley]

Wonderful Jay!

[gilberj]

Deepest and most profound congratulations and awe. Did you buy a lootery ticket to??

[RFNK]

Oh, I already have 6 of those!

Kidding of course - that's great Jay! How fantastic to pick up something that you've always longed for like that! You'll feel you're walking in the great man's shoes at sea and on land now!

Rick

[trango]

Thank you for a great story!

[Duncan Gibbs]

Brilliant stroke of luck Jay! Well done!

Have you seen this page?

http://www.lathes.co.uk/rivettearly608/

[Hwyl]

Superb, treat it well. You'll need a good steady for those tolerances.

[Mrleft8]

Very nice.... But it makes me sad.... My grandfather had one of those, and when he died, I thought for sure it was a given that it would end up in my collection of tools and machines. But for some unknown reason, my father gave it to the husband of an ex-employee of his (She was a current employee at the time), who wanted it. I think that he had to help take all the moth infested old clothes to the Goodwill box in exchange for it.....

[rogue]

Sweet!!!

[Gerarddm]

Fabulous find, congrats. Sometime the universe revolves in just the right way...

[CundysHarbor]

I just looked on EBAY under rivett lathe, very interesting
Dave

[bischoffboatworks]

I've had that same kind of lust for a true boatshop ship's saw. Someday I hope to be at the right dinner party, myself. Congrats on your new child.

[Jay Greer]

Brilliant stroke of luck Jay! Well done!

Have you seen this page?

http://www.lathes.co.uk/rivettearly608/

Yes, I have but thanks for the heads up as others may wish to muse through it. The author is one of the worlds foremost experts on metal working machines.
As far as I can glean out of his comments, the 608 is one of the most sought after tools of its kind. In perfection of planning and construction it is much akin to the Eiffle Tower and the Brooklyn Bridge, He refers to it as being a Victorian cast iron work of art. I intend to put it back into mint condition. Maybe build a Rolex.
Jay

[Jay Greer]

Very nice.... But it makes me sad.... My grandfather had one of those, and when he died, I thought for sure it was a given that it would end up in my collection of tools and machines. But for some unknown reason, my father gave it to the husband of an ex-employee of his (She was a current employee at the time), who wanted it. I think that he had to help take all the moth infested old clothes to the Goodwill box in exchange for it.....

I know the feeling. As a teen, I worked in a specialty machine shop as a helper for several years. The owner taught me the ins and outs of metal work things that are not found in books. When he passed I didn't even get a box of swarf. It all went to a distant cousin who wouldn't know a mike from a caliper.
Jay

[paulf]

Jay,
Great find. Here is a little info on that machine. http://lathes.co.uk/rivett/page2.html
.000001 might be hard to cut with a belt driven lathe , 3 jaw chuck and no temperature controlled shop.
But that is a great lathe and will do about anything you will need. Have fun eith it.

In looking at that link I see thay were like jewels beautifly hand fit. Can't get one of those at Harbor Freight!

[skaraborgcraft]

To quote a line from Monty Python,the life of Brian, "you jammy b***ard!"

Thats great Karma at work Jay,you obviously deserve it, all good things comes to those that wait!

[Canoeyawl]

A nice lathe
I have run Rivett engine lathes and turret lathes, nice machines.
Some of the samller machines have the 5-C collets while others have a weird Rivett only collet that pushes forward.

[Tom Freeman]

Good luck begins with knowing the thing that you are looking for when you see it. Congratulations on a great find! I look forward to seeing the amazing work that you will produce with such a fine tool.

[gondolier88]

You lucky, lucky man, that is one beautiful lathe! Some interesting details- the tool post looks very sophisticated. A very modern design too if you say these are 102 years old.

Look after her!

Greg

[Jay Greer]

Thanks to all of you who have made the kind comments! This is indeed like manna from the sky! Never in my wildest dreams did I expect this second chance to have one of these rare beauties! The machine takes 4NS collets, NS stands for "New Style" which is slightly smaller than the 5C style that came later. They allowed 5/8" stock to pass through the head shaft where the 5C style is slightly larger and allows for 1 1/16" stock to pass through. This, is a distinct advantage for doing production work. Even so, I am just so happy to have this magic machine that I refuse to look a gift lathe in the collet closer. When I get the machine unloaded, I will remove the label as, Mr. Higgin, the master scraper for Rivett, had an interesting habit of scratching is name and the date of mfg. on the label backs of the machines he scraped. I expect to find 1910 on it.
Jay

[Sean Miller]

Nice Rivett Lathe Jay, even better that is was free.

There is a lathe serial number list on www.rivettlathe.com. The 608 was produced 1920 thru 1960. There is a photo of an original Rivett 608 Inspection Report from a 1936 floating around on the net. It lists all of the tolerances of the lathe when it left the factory.

It lists the Head Spindle Tests as:

Turning and Boring - 0.0001 in 7"
Test Bar Parallel With Bed - 0.0001 in 8"
Concentricity, Spindle Nose - Perfect

You can find some information about scraping and restoring the lathe on the Practical Machinist Forum. A forum member named Shapeaholic has scraped and restored his 608.

Have fun with the new toy.

[Thad]

My first job, age 15, was in a machine shop where I worked my way up from sweeping the floor to running a lathe, mostly turning faces on castings. 40 years later I chanced on a WWII era Hardinge precision tool room lathe (5C collets), a sweet machine that I enjoyed using when need or desire arose. Have fun with your gem there Jay!

[Bob Cleek]

What a score! You'll have something to keep you busy on cold winter nights, that's for sure, but will Mom let you keep it in the dining room? Being single allowed LFH that luxury!

What tooling did the lathe come with?

[David G]

Jay - do you have a first project in mind?

[C. Ross]

Wow. Sorry if I missed it, but what kind of bits do you need to cut to that precision? Did those come with the lathe?

[Jay Greer]

Some times diamond bits are used. An interesting example of the capabilities of the lathe came up in an article that refers to a scientific project that involved using a Rivett for the purpose of scoring a cross hatch pattern on a special cylinder that was around 7 inches in diameter for an experiment in light refraction.
All in all, one hundred and forty three thousand even lines were scribed. The result was that the cylinder could then refract light in a pattern of spectrum separation.
Jay

[Bob Cleek]

My curiosity was aroused and I went googling to see if anybody even sold a dial indicator that measured .00001". Indeed they do.


http://shop.yourtoolingstore.com/Mit...be-MTS0760.htm They only want $200 for a used one. The catch is that it's range is +/- .0002", so setting it up is going to be a bit tedious!


If it has the "new style," rather than the 5C collets, did it come with a good collet set? If not, how available are they? My 12X35 Atlas takes 3ATs and they aren't easy to find. A single new Hardinge 3AT runs almost $100, although decent ones can sometimes be found on fleaBay for around $50 used!

I think the general rule of thumb is somewhere around twice the cost of the lathe for the basic tooling. It goes up from there if you are looking for model-specific tooling for "old 'arn," but there's nothing better.

Keep us apprised of what you are doing with her. Pictures please! It's a true jewel!

[wardd]

Nice Rivett Lathe Jay, even better that is was free.

There is a lathe serial number list on www.rivettlathe.com. The 608 was produced 1920 thru 1960. There is a photo of an original Rivett 608 Inspection Report from a 1936 floating around on the net. It lists all of the tolerances of the lathe when it left the factory.

It lists the Head Spindle Tests as:

Turning and Boring - 0.0001 in 7"
Test Bar Parallel With Bed - 0.0001 in 8"
Concentricity, Spindle Nose - Perfect

You can find some information about scraping and restoring the lathe on the Practical Machinist Forum. A forum member named Shapeaholic has scraped and restored his 608.

Have fun with the new toy.

that's more like it, the op had too many zeros

to work that close you'd have to lap it

and the flakeing is more likely for proper lubrication

[wardd]

My curiosity was aroused and I went googling to see if anybody even sold a dial indicator that measured .00001". Indeed they do.


http://shop.yourtoolingstore.com/Mit...be-MTS0760.htm They only want $200 for a used one. The catch is that it's range is +/- .0002", so setting it up is going to be a bit tedious!


If it has the "new style," rather than the 5C collets, did it come with a good collet set? If not, how available are they? My 12X35 Atlas takes 3ATs and they aren't easy to find. A single new Hardinge 3AT runs almost $100, although decent ones can sometimes be found on fleaBay for around $50 used!

I think the general rule of thumb is somewhere around twice the cost of the lathe for the basic tooling. It goes up from there if you are looking for model-specific tooling for "old 'arn," but there's nothing better.

Keep us apprised of what you are doing with her. Pictures please! It's a true jewel!

that's the range, but i bet you set it up and touch the work piece and then zero it out

it's electronic not mechanical

[Bill R]

Wonderful, on all counts.

[Jay Greer]

I don't anticipate ever needing the extreme accuracy that this lathe is capable of but, at least it is nice to know that it is there. I ocasionaly do some custom medical instrument work. Having the close tollerance abilities will be an aid for that work.
So far as collets are concerned, none came with the machine save one. Hardinge makes 4NC collets that will work but, they are frightfully expensive. A better plan would be for me to make them myself. It should be fairly simple, once I get the machine working.
Jay

[Jay Greer]

Here are a couple more photos. As mentioned, I expect to find Mr. Higgin's signature scratched on the back of the Rivett Label along with the date 1910. The date matches to the serial No. that I found under the tail stock. An additional label is the colorful one of a supply company in San Francisco. The machine ,being loaded for transit, does not allow for close inspection till it is unloaded in Port Townsend. Again I will need six strong guys to do the job.
Jay

[Canoeyawl]

Jay
I think your Rivett uses either #4OS (old style) or #4NS (new style) I'm not sure which one you have but...
Here is a set of #4 OS on Ebay - starting bid $99 - one day left.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rivett-5-O-S...item3cc99a3a12

note* http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...ollets-111939/

[Sean Miller]

Jay, your lathe was manufactured by Rivett Lathe & Grinder Company. The company was named Rivett Lathe Manufacturing Company in 1910. Your lathe was made after 1912.

http://users.easystreet.com/depmco/r...e/timeline.htm

1884: Edward Rivett and C. A. W. Crosby found Faneuil Watch Tool Company; first premises (according to ER's ASME obituary) "the first 'factory' was a wooden extension of his own home." Later, factory is at 1 Brooks Street in Brighton, although catalogs give address as Faneuil Station. First products of firm appear to have been a watchmaker's lathe and the No. 3 bench lathe.

1903: Edward Rivett buys out the rest of the business from C. A. W. Crosby's heirs, renames company Rivett Lathe Manufacturing Company

1912: Edward Rivett sells part or all (?) of the company which is then renamed Rivett Lathe & Grinder Company. According to a note in an August, 1912 issue of American Machinist magazine "The Rivett Lathe and Grinder Co., Boston, Mass., was recently incorporated to succeed the Rivett Lathe Manufacturing Co. Edward Rivett retains the office of president, and will resume his duties in that capacity upon his return from Europe in October. As already announced, W. H. Shafer, formerly superintendent of the Cincinnati-Bickford Tool Co., has become associated with the new organization, and will act as vice-president and general manager. R. G. Morse, formerly with the General Electric Co., will act as secretary and treasurer, while G. S. DeLany will be superintendent, a position he formerly held with the Stevens-Duryea Co. The manufacture of the same class of machinery will be continued." We do not know yet how long this arrangement continued, but Stone's Massachusetts Industries (1930) comments "In 1912 a group of financiers purchased the business and incorporated it as The Rivett Lathe and Grinder Company. Unfortunately, the several managements which succeeded were neither successful in retaining the interest of Edward Rivett, nor of carrying out the progressive policy which he had pursued in directing the business for himself." suggests that it was relatively short-lived. Both of Rivett's obituaries state that he retired in 1912.

[Jay Greer]

Interesting information Sean, The serial number stamped into the frame under the tail stock ends in 10. According to what I have read, that last number coincides with the date of mfg. in this case, 1910. In addition, the lathe does not have the quick change gear box which came about later. But, I have to agree with you and there is no refuting the documented historical information concerning the company. The information I have found states that the name was changed to the Rivett Lathe & Grinder Co. in 1923. Which would indicate that the lathe was made after that date. I believe that some further study will bring all to light when I get it to my shop and can more closely inspect the machine. Right now I am just happy to have it. Incidently it definitely uses 4NS collets.
Thanks for your interest,
Jay

[Bob Cleek]

So far as collets are concerned, none came with the machine save one. Hardinge makes 4NC collets that will work but, they are frightfully expensive. A better plan would be for me to make them myself. It should be fairly simple, once I get the machine working.
Jay

Spoken like a man with supreme confidence, which must come from a lot of experience! I've had to try to learn how to run my lathe from books, since I don't know any old school machinists. (Fortunately, there is a lot available on the Atlas/Craftsman 12X36's.) I find it rather intimidating, truth be told. It's amazing how much powerful torque a machine lathe can bring to such a fine point. It's not without good cause that many consider an metal working lathe to be the most dangerous stationary machine tool of all... and the most versatile. With a lathe, you can build any other machine there is, or so they say... if you can master all that it can do.

[Bob Cleek]

Jay
I think your Rivett uses either #4OS (old style) or #4NS (new style) I'm not sure which one you have but...
Here is a set of #4 OS on Ebay - starting bid $99 - one day left.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rivett-5-O-S...item3cc99a3a12

note* http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...ollets-111939/

Interesting. One day left and no bids. Obviously, grab 'em at $99. The trouble with fleaBay these days, though, is that everybody is using those automated bidding programs, where you set your maximum bid and the program keeps bidding until you win or somebody betters it. All the bids come in at the last second. Takes all the fun out of it, I think, but then again, how many people are out there looking for Rivett collets?

[Bob Cleek]

Interesting information Sean, The serial number stamped into the frame under the tail stock ends in 10. According to what I have read, that last number coincides with the date of mfg. in this case, 1910. In addition, the lathe does not have the quick change gear box which came about later. But, I have to agree with you and there is no refuting the documented historical information concerning the company. The information I have found states that the name was changed to the Rivett Lathe & Grinder Co. in 1923. Which would indicate that the lathe was made after that date. I believe that some further study will bring all to light when I get it to my shop and can more closely inspect the machine. Right now I am just happy to have it. Incidently it definitely uses 4NS collets.
Thanks for your interest,
Jay

Could it be that the frame was cast in 1910, but the lathe was built in 1923? It would seem odd that they'd have castings in stock for thirteen or more years, but I read someplace once that back in the day high quality machine tool castings were left to "cure" for some time before they would machine them. The reason was supposedly to prevent any chance of warping after they were machined to close tolerances. The story was the factories that did such work would have large piles of "raw" castings piled up outdoors left to cure for quite some time before being machined.

[Sean Miller]

Jay, The name was changed to Rivett Lathe and Grinder Company in 1912, then to Rivett Lathe and Grinder Corporation in 1923.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/rivett/page2.html

"In 1908 business had been good enough to double the size of the factory, but four years later Edward Rivett retired, selling his concern to a group of investors who renamed it The Rivett Lathe and Grinder Company. In the build-up to World War 1 the new owners enjoyed a good return on their money, with production steadily increasing and another factory extension added in 1915 - just a year after the War's start in Europe. Remarkably, the factory was extended again in 1920, at a time when all nations, especially the more advanced ones, were suffering a post-war slow-down. However, this optimism was short-lived, and by 1923, with the company's finances in trouble, a reorganisation took place which saw the name changed to The Rivett Lathe and Grinder Corporation."

A little more information about the history of Rivett from another site.

http://www.neme-s.org/Shaper%20Books...0Rivett%20.PDF

When The company was bought out in 1912, the 8" Precision Lathe was renamed the 608. It is what Tony on on www.lathes.co.uk calls the early 608. It still had the curved feet. I believe the 608 with the pyramid feet was produced from 1920-1960. Serial numbers 0-90 should be from 1920.

[Sean Miller]

I happen to have 6 4NS collets from and old Gorton End Mill Grinder I got a couple of years ago. I have 4 rivetts, 1 gorton and 1 hardinge. Some are in rough shape but should cleanup and be useful. If you want them PM me your address and I will send them to you.

[Tom Freeman]

I happen to have 6 4NS collets from and old Gorton End Mill Grinder I got a couple of years ago. I have 4 rivetts, 1 gorton and 1 hardinge. Some are in rough shape but should cleanup and be useful. If you want them PM me your address and I will send them to you.

This is the sort of thing that I love about this site, and the wooden boat community in general.