Pussy Riot Faces Jail for Mortal Sin

[Ian McColgin]

Published on Tuesday, August 7, 2012 by Common Dreams

Pussy Riot Prosecutor Calls for 3-Year Jail Term: 'Feminism Is a Mortal Sin'

- Common Dreams staff

Russian prosecutors on Tuesday called for a three year jail term for three members of punk band Pussy Riot. Prosecutors accused the band members of insulting Russian Orthodoxy and posing a danger to society, after performing one of their songs in a Moscow cathedral. The defendants, however, argue that their song titled, "Virgin Mary, Chase Putin Out", was not an act of religious hatred, but an act of political protest.

The court heard closing arguments Tuesday.

"This crime is severe and the prosecution considers that their correction is only possible in conditions of isolation from society and the punishment needed must be a real deprivation of freedom," State prosecutor Alexander Nikiforov told the court.

"All the defendants talked about being feminists and said that is allowed in the Russian Orthodox church," said Yelena Pavlova, a lawyer for several of the nine victims who said they were insulted by Pussy Riot's performance. "This does not correspond with reality. Feminism is a mortal sin," she said.

The Pussy Riot case has caused an international outcry, calling on Russia to protect free speech and end political persecutions. The trial has re-focused attention on a crackdown on dissent since Putin returned to presidency on May 7. The members considered their act as part of an anti-Putin protest movement, which saw the biggest demonstrations since Putin's rise to power in 2000 last winter.

Pussy Riot's defense lawyers argued Tuesday that the performance was an act of opposition against Putin and was not motivated by religious hatred. "The 'prayer' they sang was a political one," lawyer Violetta Volkova said.

Defense lawyer Mark Feygin stated, "Russia has no rule of law. Russia has no justice system. Nothing has changed from Soviet times," in a speech to the court room, which ended with applause from the journalists witnessing the trial.

According to Feygin, a guilty verdict would "tear up relations between society and government". "Society will never forgive the government" for jailing three innocent women, he said.

Opposition activists have called for an impromptu protest to be held on August 19th.

The sentence could be announced anytime this week.

# # #

[Kaa]

It is an interesting case. Evidently, it's also a stark example of how the Russian courts are nowhere close to being independent, impartial, or even caring about procedural niceties of a trial.

Kaa

[Lew Barrett]

Agreed. A disturbing event and indicator.

[George Jung]

Why? That'll teach 'em....

think about it.

[Waddie]

Why a church as the venue if it wasn't both a state and church protest? Wouldn't a better location for the protest song be a city hall or other government building if it were purely an anti-government protest? Even a shopping mall?

But, yeah, Russia is still a long way from being democratic. As we all know, it is a long and difficult journey. Even for the best of countries it's still a work in progress.

regards,
Waddie

[skuthorp]

The Russian Orthodox church had a more than cosy relationship with the Imperial system, basically a closed shop. This seems to have been resumed since the demise of the soviet.

[Waddie]

The Russian Orthodox church had a more than cosy relationship with the Imperial system, basically a closed shop. This seems to have been resumed since the demise of the soviet.

I don't doubt that you're correct. But the defense emphatically states that the protest wasn't anti-religion, just anti Putin. So why protest in a church?

regards,
Waddie

[Lew Barrett]

I don't doubt that you're correct. But the defense emphatically states that the protest wasn't anti-religion, just anti Putin. So why protest in a church?

regards,
Waddie

Disregarding the question of venue for a moment, is three years in jail an appropriate sentence for "insulting Russian Orthodoxy and posing a danger to society, after performing one of their songs in a Moscow cathedral."

Is performing a song a danger to society? Is insulting Russian Orthodoxy a felony? It seems to me that the venue is inconsequential compared to the punishment and the crime.

[Waddie]

Disregarding the question of venue for a moment, is three years in jail an appropriate sentence for "insulting Russian Orthodoxy and posing a danger to society, after performing one of their songs in a Moscow cathedral."

Is performing a song a danger to society? Is insulting Russian Orthodoxy a felony? It seems to me that the venue is inconsequential compared to the punishment and the crime.

In our culture no, the venue wouldn't be as important. And to us the punishment seems excessive. I'm no expert on Russian culture, but protesting in an Orthodox cathedral might be a much bigger deal in Russian culture. What if they had protested in a mosque in Saudi Arabia? We lock people up all the time on marijuana charges, even make some felonies, which must seem excessive in many other cultures.

regards,
Waddie

[Lew Barrett]

In our culture no, the venue wouldn't be as important. And to us the punishment seems excessive. I'm no expert on Russian culture, but protesting in an Orthodox cathedral might be a much bigger deal in Russian culture. What if they had protested in a mosque in Saudi Arabia? We lock people up all the time on marijuana charges, even make some felonies, which must seem excessive in many other cultures.

regards,
Waddie

I'll go with your mosque analogy, although I needn't like it, but Russia plays on the field of western culture; or would like to be seen as doing so. They are an advanced, not tribal, civilization, and not "supposed" to be a theocracy. I think the comment by their defense lawyer suggests the real conditions: "Russia has no rule of law. Russia has no justice system. Nothing has changed from Soviet times."

This is a political, not cultural trial. Putin is a dictator or oligarch; your call, and has now enlisted the Orthodox church as one of his cronies, or so say I. I think that interpretation is pretty broadly held outside of Russia and inside; except inside, you have to be careful who hears you say it. The KGB is back in full force.

[gilberj]

Our American Cousins might note there are and have been for decades more of its citizens incarcerated than any of the other developed countries including Russia and Soviet Russia.

[Bram V]

Noting that feminism is a mortal sin (which is silly, of course) has no place in a courtroom. Three people being jailed for three years insulting nine people equals one year of prison time for each person feeling insulted. I should think that a lot more people should be insulted stating that feminism is a mortal sin, thus sending them to prison a few hundred years.

I think the notion that society could be destabilised by convicting the band is a very clever statement, it is probably true to some extent, and would show the "felony" of the girls is okay if the judge and prosecution does it. If they convict the girls, and riots and protests break out, it is a logical step to sentence the prosecution the same charges.

[Gerarddm]

Putin does not seem to understand the damage this kind of spectacle causes worldwide to Russia's reputation. Talk about a throwback to the show trials of the 1930s.

He really has become a nasty sort of joke, what with all those bare chested photos, etc.

[Meli]

If they are not gaoled for performing a sacrelidgous (sp) song in a church, they should be gaoled for the name of the band

And for being rotten http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALS92big4TY

[Lew Barrett]

Our American Cousins might note there are and have been for decades more of its citizens incarcerated than any of the other developed countries including Russia and Soviet Russia.

True, and disgraceful. You might, for instance, mention Bradley Manning, who depending on your point of view is a prisoner of conscience/political prisoner, jailed under the aegis of the Obama administration. If that case isn't to one's liking, I can probably find another; maybe to include jail time for minor crimes or cannabis possession or use. Or we can discuss sentences as they are handed down depending on racial characteristics.

But this is a discussion about Pussy Riot, and what is happening in Russia. Another discussion about how people of color are jailed in this country at a ratio of better than 8:1 to whites would be the subject of an excellent thread on it's own. You could include an aside about Australia's rates for aboriginal citizens as well.

I'd suggest though, that if this is Russia's response to a bit of distasteful play in a church, they'll soon be out in front of us again, (and I'll take issue with your comment about "Soviet Russia") just as they were when Stalin had (by some accounts) over 20 million quietly locked up in the Gulag system. In Stalin's Soviet Union, they didn't bother to show the records on who was in "jail." Whole minorities were deported, expelled or locked up. Imagine, here's something they could do better than the USA; they certainly have the experience to whoop us upside the head.

Pussy Riot is a fair topic for discussion regardless of US policies, and maybe should be a jumping off point for a discussion of how people around the world are silenced when their behavior is not to the liking of the authorities. Meanwhile, it is not looking hopefully pleasant in Russia anymore.
Canada is well below our rate of success in this regard, so we have retained a place where we do better than you do. Also in woman's beach volleyball.....

[purri]

^Correct for much of the above of Lew's post (excluding the last sentence as irrelevant dross).

[Ian McColgin]

Why in a church? The Pussy Riot also have songs protesting the Patriarch's complicity with the government. I guess they remember the bit about the money changers in the temple.

[skuthorp]

And then there's the matter of murdered journalists in Russia, mostly one's critical of the regime. Things haven't changed much, but then the same people are in control.
Our continued failure to deal properly and honestly with our First Australians is a matter of constant shame and frustration too I might add.

[Ian McColgin]

All nations have things about which they might be ashamed just as all of us have sins for which we've yet to attone. That should not prevent us from noting injustice anywhere - noting injustice is not at all the same as the sanctimonious casting of a first stone.

[Waddie]

Why in a church? The Pussy Riot also have songs protesting the Patriarch's complicity with the government. I guess they remember the bit about the money changers in the temple.

You're probably right, they are against the church's Patriarch. But why does the defense insist they aren't protesting against the church when they obviously are? They admit the incident was anti-government/Putin. Why not admit it is anti-Orthodox as well? That's my question. Does being anti-Orthodox get you the death penalty or something?

regards,
Waddie

[Lew Barrett]

^Correct for much of the above of Lew's post (excluding the last sentence as irrelevant dross).

Irrelevant dross it may be, but it was included as a stab at some gallows humor, not as a serious addition to what preceded. If it offended you, chalk it up to being a bad joke.

All nations have things about which they might be ashamed just as all of us have sins for which we've yet to attone. That should not prevent us from noting injustice anywhere - noting injustice is not at all the same as the sanctimonious casting of a first stone.

I was tempted to say something along those lines, but I felt that Gilberj's comment was factual and not irrelevant. A response of "what has one thing to do with the other?" could have been seen as a deflection that was not intended. Pussy Riot is a fair topic and one that has troubled me since it came to international prominence. I'm glad you raised it.
Mikhail Khodorkovsky's incarceration also smells badly of iron-fisted control of a type that bodes no good.

[Kaa]

Some background information on how Russia works: http://www.opendemocracy.net/od-russ...-magnitsky-act

As to "why in a church", I think a few days before that the Patriatch told the faithful to vote for Putin in the coming elections...

Kaa

[Iceboy]

I have to wonder what the response would be if they did that in a cathedral in the U.S. or Canada. Most likely trespass and disorderly conduct at the least. I don't think it is worth a 3 year sentence but the whole charade this band put on is in bad taste and shows disrespect for the beliefs of others.

[Kaa]

...the whole charade this band put on is in bad taste and shows disrespect for the beliefs of others.

So tell me, what do you think is proper punishment for "bad taste", "disrespect for the beliefs of others", and generally for being a punk?

Kaa

[gilberj]

Lew you are right....this is about Pussy Riot and what is happening in this instance. It certainly appears they (in the video )were specifically trying to be provocative and it seems to have worked, and the Church was part of the target.
Still I do not see a crime
Misuse of the Judiciary by the state is not new and will probably never disappear.

[Iceboy]

I don't think they should be punished for being a punk or for bad taste. Watch the video in post #10 and see what you think it is. I do think they should be ticketed for disorderly conduct and trespass. What would your reaction be if they did that in your house? There is a time and place for everything. In my opinion that was neither the time or place. Wonder why the world is so screwed up? It is simply the lack of respect for others and their beliefs.

So tell me, what do you think is proper punishment for "bad taste", "disrespect for the beliefs of others", and generally for being a punk?

Kaa

[skipper68]

Why am I not surprised? Bad taste-yes. Stupidity? Yes. A ticket and fines would suffice. This is not the way to bring Russia forward. I hope the protests work. OTOH, now they are known world wide. Could that have been a goal? Could it be it WAS the goal?If so, it worked in a twisted way to show the world WHY they were protesting. I cant watch the video.

[Kaa]

I don't think they should be punished for being a punk or for bad taste. Watch the video in post #10 and see what you think it is. I do think they should be ticketed for disorderly conduct and trespass. What would your reaction be if they did that in your house? There is a time and place for everything. In my opinion that was neither the time or place. Wonder why the world is so screwed up? It is simply the lack of respect for others and their beliefs.

The video shows punks doing a political protest in the punk style. "Disorderly conduct"? Maybe, but in the US they might have a good First Amendment defence. "Trespass"? I don't think so, the church's open to the public so it could be trespass only after they were told to leave and they refused which is not the case here.

"If they did it in my house"? As long as they didn't start breaking things, I'll probably grin and reach for my camera :-D

"Time and place for everything"? Well, clearly they thought it was the right time and place. Why does their opinion have less weight than yours?

And I think there are many many more reasons why the world is so screwed up :-)

Kaa

[Lew Barrett]

No reason for me to pile on but suffice to say I couldn't agree with you more, Kaa. Added: some of these women have children. What could make them feel so strongly that they would be willing to take risks to throw a snub? Might they have a significant "bone to pick?" Could Russian justice be mercurial and punitive? And finally, for you Iceboy: Are the Orthodox Christians of Russia so easily offended and so mightily righteous that a bit of theater in the church causes them to take pleasure in jailing the "disrespectful" for years because they are seen to be "sacrilegious?" Sacrilege, a "crime" without a victim, with punishment of the most extreme sort because "you hurt my feelings."

[Lew Barrett]

Lew you are right....this is about Pussy Riot and what is happening in this instance. It certainly appears they (in the video )were specifically trying to be provocative and it seems to have worked, and the Church was part of the target.
Still I do not see a crime
Misuse of the Judiciary by the state is not new and will probably never disappear.

It was a fair question for it's own discussion. All I think Ian and I (independently) wanted to point out was that it isn't a matter of being, as he said, sanctimonious.

[PhaseLockedLoop]

The charge I’ve heard is “hooliganism motivated by religious hatred.”

From Mike Whitney:
“So, let’s do a little thought-experiment and dig a little deeper into this matter. Let’s say an all-girl punk-rock band stormed into St Patrick’s Cathedral or a major Jewish synagogue in downtown Manhattan and commandeered the altar so they could execute a raucous and blasphemous performance that derides believers as well as Barack Obama. Do you think the media would be as supportive as they have with Pussy Riot? Of course not. “

Just a thought.

[Ian McColgin]

Fox News might be.

But seriously, for all our problems we can at least argue about artistic and political expression, argue about the line between legitimate expression and an unlawful infringement on another's rights, and argue about whether a governmental response (think of all the Occupy controversies) is legitimate or not.

In this case, the Patriarch made a common political cause with Putin. It's a sign of political health, however slight and dangerous, in Russia that people like Pussy Riot engage in some theatre.

[Iceboy]

The video shows punks doing a political protest in the punk style. "Disorderly conduct"? Maybe, but in the US they might have a good First Amendment defence. "Trespass"? I don't think so, the church's open to the public so it could be trespass only after they were told to leave and they refused which is not the case here.

Try that in St Pauls cathedral in NYC and I would say disorderly conduct would be just one of the charges. Obviously you also didn't watch the video. What do you think those peole were trying to push them out for? Were they not asking for them to leave?

"If they did it in my house"? As long as they didn't start breaking things, I'll probably grin and reach for my camera :-D

By house, I meant your house of worship whatever that may be. Still your call.

"Time and place for everything"? Well, clearly they thought it was the right time and place. Why does their opinion have less weight than yours?

It doesn't have less weight. Any more than mine has less weight than yours.

And I think there are many many more reasons why the world is so screwed up :-)

Yeah, but it's a good start.

Kaa

Jim....

[Iceboy]

And finally, for you Iceboy: Are the Orthodox Christians of Russia so easily offended and so mightily righteous that a bit of theater in the church causes them to take pleasure in jailing the "disrespectful" for years because they are seen to be "sacrilegious?" Sacrilege, a "crime" without a victim, with punishment of the most extreme sort because "you hurt my feelings."[/QUOTE]

Read my original post and you will see that I thought 3 years was excessive.

[Waddie]

Did they have an idea of what the punishment could be before they conducted the protest? Then they knew what they were doing was no game. As protesters, isn't it incumbent on them to accept the punishment (under protest) and not try to weasel out now by saying it wasn't anti-Orthodox. I would have more respect for them if they would man-up and say, "Yeah, we protested the state and the church, and we know the consequences, and we did it anyways. So do your worst, Putin, and the world will see you for what you are!!" But to conduct the protest and then claim it was otherwise is not the act of people on the moral high ground.

regards,
Waddie

[Lew Barrett]

Read my original post and you will see that I thought 3 years was excessive.

What might have been an appropriate punishment, then?

[Kaa]

May I recommend learning a bit about this whole thing, e.g. from here: http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/...-gonzo-artwork

For example:

“Punk Prayer” was part of a series of performances that took aim at symbols of the regime, past and present: the Place of the Skulls, the execution spot on Red Square; luxury shopping malls, the Moscow metro. The Catherdal was chosen because it had, in Pussy Riot’s view, become a commercial center and because the patriarch had just told believers to vote for Putin in the upcoming presidential election."

Kaa

[Lew Barrett]

Did they have an idea of what the punishment could be before they conducted the protest? Then they knew what they were doing was no game. As protesters, isn't it incumbent on them to accept the punishment (under protest) and not try to weasel out now by saying it wasn't anti-Orthodox. I would have more respect for them if they would man-up and say, "Yeah, we protested the state and the church, and we know the consequences, and we did it anyways. So do your worst, Putin, and the world will see you for what you are!!" But to conduct the protest and then claim it was otherwise is not the act of people on the moral high ground.

regards,
Waddie

We'll not see eye to eye on this. In a state without the rule of law, there is no way to gauge the response of authority. The issue is that the punishment is not only excessive, but also arbitrary. As I mentioned, would you feel differently if the subject of this were Ruby Ridge or, as I mentioned (but with which I expect you not to agree) Bradley Manning?

[Iceboy]

Simple ticket and a small fine as it would be in any civilized country or the same as it would be if it happened in St James right there in Seattle. I never argued for extreme punishment in any wayor backed the Putin regime. As you said in the opener of your post#39 "No reason for me to pile on" and yet you do.

What might have been an appropriate punishment, then?

[Lew Barrett]

SAs you said in the opener of your post#39 "No reason for me to pile on" and yet you do.

A one point touche, but hardly worth responding as if you are an injured party.

[George Jung]

What might have been an appropriate punishment, then?

Sentence them to performing Randy Travis or John Denver songs for a year.

That'd teach 'em.

[George Jung]

An afterthought....

I thought the Ruskies were Godless Atheists. Sounds like a strong defense, to me. How can they persecute... er.... prosecute a Mortal Sin?

[Bob Cleek]

Aw, come on now! Here in America, the land of Free Speech, some old geezer gets a microphone stuck in his face and asked, "What do you think about Gay Marriage?" He says, "I think marriage ought to be between men and women." and, without any trial, mind you, he's labeled as a "homophobe," a bigot and worse and the media is cheering on boycotting his family business while politicians are falling all over themselves announcing they won't let him open a restaurant in their town.

Then, on a much less publicized level, the National Park Service in San Francisco is quietly doing everything they can to run the Sea Scout base out of business, where it's legally been for maybe sixty years.... yea, because the Boy Scouts don't want Gay scoutmasters.

Don Imus is yanked off the air for saying "nappy headed hoes," as have been others for similar politically incorrect comments. Just get caught letting the "N word" or some similar rude epithet slip and if you're at all in the public eye, you're toast and it's off to rehab for you.

And we won't even go into the "No-fly List."

Do you really think our speech is any more free than the Russians'?

[George Jung]

Answer me one thing - did they make him sing Boy George songs for 3 years? Hmmmm? I didn't think so....

[Kaa]

Do you really think our speech is any more free than the Russians'?

On the very basic level that no one of those you've mentioned went to jail, yes.

Kaa

[Bram V]

I think since the patriach found the church a good place to mix politics and church, it was a good place to protest it.

The patriach had no place to mix religion with state, the reaction to protest inside the church was fitting.

[Kaa]

Pussy Riot got two years.

Notably the verdict classified feminism as a kind of "religious hatred" X-D

Kaa

[Keith Wilson]

Do you really think our speech is any more free than the Russians'?

Yes. Free speech does not mean speech with no consequences. If people do not like what you say, there are many perfectly legitimate things they can do in response, some of which you not like. No one is obligated to patronize any restaurant; folks can chose to do so or not for any reason they like.

The women in question went to jail. You should be able to tell the difference. The "poor persecuted Christians" meme is nonsense.

[purri]

The RO Patriarch heads a national patriarchy. Enough said.