Self discipline,boat building & shop cleanliness

[timo4352]

I could use some wisdom from the forum. I enjoy building things, boats included. My work habits never seem to include time to clean up afterwards. So on a day like today I had to spend the time that I could have been working on the boat - cleaning up a messy shop. Lots of shavings,sawdust and wood scraps, plus assorted tools everywhere. Does anyone have the same disease and how do you handle it? I'd like to learn some cleaner habits so I can be more productive when I have some time to work out there. Like most folks I'd rather be building than cleaning, but I gotta strike a balance somehow, somewhere. Any thoughts or wisdoms? How do you keep things under control in your shop?
Thanks
Tim

[LongIslandBoy]

TO, I find that having more than one garbage can in the shop helps alot, especially if you place them strategically.i.e. close to your planer, bandsaw, etc., or right under your workbench. And clean as you go: one handful of shavings as needed, rather than gathering ALL the shavings at once. A couple of bench brushes, and a couple of dustpans, well placed will help as well! Good luck! Regards, Wes

[Paul Pless]

How do you keep things under control in your shop?

I use a leaf blower. Come on, we all can't be like Jim Ledger. . . .

[TerryLL]

I have to say I just can't bring myself to take up a tool and begin the day's work if the shop is out of order. So, first thing every morning any tool out of place gets stowed where it belongs, benches get dusted, floors get swept, garbage emptied, wood stacks neatened. I don't mind walking out of a messy shop in the evening knowing all will be put right first thing in the morning.

Lefty can snicker now if he's a mind to.
I still trust folks with messy shops, I just don't let them work in mine.

[PeterSibley]

I use a leaf blower. Come on, we all can't be like Jim Ledger. . . .

Yep, me too but my shop is open on 2 sides , leaves blow in , dust blows out , but tools get put away at the end of the day, clamps hung up, scrap gets binned . The small dust can wait a day or two.

[Cogeniac]

I wait until I can't walk in the shop because of stray wood bits, or until I can;t remember where I last dropped that errant tool..

I hate it...;-D

[mcdenny]

When I make a mistake and have to take a time out, that's when I clean. You can't screw up cleaning up.

Denny Wolfe

[David G]

For me... it depends upon the circumstances. There's no sense putting a bunch of things away, if you're just gonna pull them back out in the morning to continue some task.

That said, however, I tend to be very much a 'place for everything, everything in its place' kinda guy. I rent space to a fellow in my shop - and that rental includes use of any tools he knows how to use, or is willing to replace if he goobers them up. I'm pretty easygoing about the whole thing - except for one thing. If tools are used and not put back when he got them (or are put back broken, out of adjustment, or otherwise unfit for immediate duty... well, I know places to bury the body where it'll never be found <G> Nothing I hate more than wandering around looking for things! At 2500 sq. ft. - the shop's not that big... but it can still take up a lot of time, and generate a lot of frustration.

Throughout my shop ownership... the fire marshall consistently remarks in awe... what a CLEAN woodworking shop we run. I don't like sawdust building up in the corners. I don't like clutter. I'd rather clean it up every few days. It helps me function, it's safer, and - as a side benefit - it keeps me in their good graces. If they do find something to comment on - they're inclined to let me fix it at my leisure... rather than fine me, or ride me hard about it.

[Oldad]

I wait until I can't walk in the shop because of stray wood bits, or until I can;t remember where I last dropped that errant tool..

I hate it...;-D

Me too, sad to say. I just keep going until I have no choice but to stop and hoe it out and even then do only the barest minimum to get up and running again.

[E.Johnson]

FWIW right now I am borrowing my brother's garage and we're purposely leaving the place a wreck until the boat is finished. Then we'll clean up the mess and act like it never happened.

Back in the days when I had access to a full-on wood shop (gawd I wish for those days NOW when I have something to make of personal interest) my MO was to put things away as I finished using them so the shop stayed perpetually neat. It belonged to a community college so I couldn't really trash the place without dire consequences.

Thus: It's really up to you as to what you're comfortable with. At the least, I'd say take 10-15 minutes to neaten up a bit at the end of each day, so next time you can jump right in and make a new mess.

[andrewpatrol]

I keep trying to tell myself I will be more efficient if I clean up but getting efficient about cleaning up is a whole other ball game. I like the one about 10 or 15 minutes a day, it'd probably save you that as well. Wait til I show you all a pic of my shed later in my build thread - "new build with pics . I even shock myself. Sorry I can't suggest anything wise Timo, I can only comment. In my case I reckon messy shed = messy mind.

[Gerarddm]

Too much clutter clutters my mind, I never begrudge tidying up every couple of days depending on what I am doing. I figure I'll gain in efficiency what I might spend on cleanup.

[skaraborgcraft]

Actually a good question. I have spent a lot of time working in other peoples shops,which ranged from extreme cleanliness,to utter health risk. My own workspace is split into 2 areas, a bench joining area which is kept clean and orginised, and the assembly area,which gets cleaned out when i decide it needs it, which varies depending on my mood. Working on my own, i have little problem knowing where tools have been left,so im not religous about putting them away after every use.I will have a large open plastic crate for placing tools in,if im bouncing between areas. However, i do normally do a big clean and tidy after completeing a project. I dont let stuff lay around so that there is any health or trip hazards, and as suggested, a few bins or buckets in the right places does help. I would prefer to clean up before leaving,than to walk into a messy shop the next day,if only because it leaves time for the dust to settle overnight! Not having dust extraction on machines does leave dust lying around, and its only an issue at finishing time,when i would normally stick up a plastic tent over the project. I dont feel totally comfortable in a spotless workshop!

[Bram V]

I clean up when I am thinking stuff over, which happens a lot (and I stopped building with doubt, way too much cleanup when I do know what to do). When I am at any good tempo, I tend to clutter a lot.


A lot like the rest of my house, when I have to do something I really hate like taxes, finding another job or some such, my house is clean. It'd be really good for me to do more taxes.

[Waterdown]

Hi Tim

This is a constant struggle, I guess until you have built up good habits. I'm not there yet myself. I do know what a difference it makes to come into a clean, neat, well-stocked shop, versus a messy shop with no work surfaces clear.

Clean as you go helps a lot. Beyond that, as I get toward the end of my day (or hour, or whatever time I have) in the shop, I try consciously to remember how good it will be to come in the next day to a clean shop, visualize it, and spend a part of my time from then on working toward that.

Cheers, Chris

[Tim Marchetti]

With an ongoing project it's nice to keep tools handy, but not in the way. If you have room, a simple small bench(2'x3')on casters with a couple of shelves is great. You can keep just about every thing you need on it and you can move it to where you are working. When you are done with a tool it goes right back where you got it. I didn't have room to move a bench around my last build, so I put my clamps in a 5gal. bucket, my hand tools in another 5gal. bucket and my power tools and supplies on a nearby shelf.
Having your tools out of the way, makes it easier to get chips and saw dust out of the way. I save major cleaning for times when I need/want to reflect on the project and when it is really needed(before painting, filleting....) In the end, whatever gets the job done and makes you happy is all that matters.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

I spent 40+ years in a trade. What is important when starting off is to accumulate skills. Without them you will just be another dud. It doesn't make much difference how you go about it as long as you keep making progress. You can do your projects like a bookkeeper if you wish but if it interferes with your ability to excell at the skills the project requires you aren't doing yourself any favors. For those of us that use a lot of hand tools there is a considerable amount of tuning required to keep tools sharp and set. When those tools are used they can make a lot of debris.

[wizbang 13]

When I can't find something, I put stuff away until the missing item, usually a pencil, shows up .
The electric blower sends pencils out a good distance.

[Bill R]

For me... it depends upon the circumstances. There's no sense putting a bunch of things away, if you're just gonna pull them back out in the morning to continue some task.

That said, however, I tend to be very much a 'place for everything, everything in its place' kinda guy.

I work the same way. At first glance, my shop is a cluttered mess, but if you ask me where something is, I can tell you exactly, since it always goes back to the same place.

However, if I'm done for the day, and I still need the tools, I will leave them out until I am done. I do, however try to straighten up the shop a little bit at the end of the night.

[timo4352]

Well, I am glad to see I'm not the only one...
Maybe some twelve step program for shop pigs or something might help?
Seriously, I do like the 15 minute clean up time deal. You can actually accomplish quite a bit in that time, as far as straightening up goes. Now, the self discipline to actually do it is another matter... maybe if I set an alarm clock to remind myself???
I have used the tool bin idea a little - to keep my most used tools together and not have to put them all away every day. I think that small effort there can save some time in itself - maybe the 15 mins. I need to clean up.
I've got two bench brushes and two dustpans in the shop. Most times I have a hard time finding either one!
Plus I'll add an excuse for my poor behaviour - my shop is only 768 square feet so things are kinda tight most of the time.
But better when things are neater. - Hey, I might be on to something here...
Thanks for the replies and keep 'em coming if ya got 'em. I need all the help I can get.
Tim

[Gib Etheridge]

It helps a lot to not make much of a mess as you work. A minimum 2 bagger 2 HP dust collection system is a great help with that. You can use 3 or 4 inch ABS and a couple of bed frame casters to make a vacuum cleaner fitting that you can push around and clean the floor thoroughly, that's a big help too.

I make a lot of hand plane shavings (my wife calls them curls) at times and they get cleaned up immediately. They're an extreme fire hazard and that's unacceptable.

[Yeadon]

I'm better in a clean, well-organized shop.

I hate cords underfoot and things in my path. Every once in a long while I'll get really really frustrated and boot my shopvac out into the driveway. I find that very satisfying. Damn thing is always underfoot. I've also thrown my moaning chair (which survived), weed wacker (which did not), and the occasional hand tool. Usually if this happens, it's time for me to quit for the day.

I guess I'm also better in a one man shop.

[Vernon]

I clean up whenever the winds right and I reach a good stopping point. I have a long narrow shop with doors on both ends, It's like a wind tunnel at times. I'll put all the tools away, empty the saw dust boxes under my saws, dump the trash cans in the burn pile, use my hand brush to dust everything on to the floor, roughly sweep the floor, and then take the leaf blower and chase everything right out. Only takes about 30-40 minutes every couple or three weeks.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

When I stop and know that I am getting tired, I start cleaning up..... I pile tools on the bench, put paint and thinners away, sweep, vacuum, then put tools away in the tool box. Once every couple of weeks, I do a major clean up. I find when things get too messy my work quality suffers.

[Dale R. Hamilton]

One of the secrets to completing a long troublesome project is to maintain your spiritual connection to your work. To do that, I find its necessary to do something everyday. Its this requirement that has me putting away tools, sweeping and keeping up after the dust. It gives me time to think, as some of the lads have pointed out, and I can always find my tools the next day. I'm not sure I'd buy a project from a fellow who maintained a disorderly shop- it would reflect a disordered mind to me. My prejudice I know- but thats the way for me.

[St.J]

I work in the back garden.
What my wife calls "shavings" I call "mulch". That way when it gets to the flower beds I don't have to sweep it up.
the wind keeps the workbench clear of sawdust and the tools are easier to see. If I don't put them away at the end of each day they get very rusty.

Because I'm working on flagstones I don't let tools acrew on the bench because if they fall on the floor they don't survive so they go back in the shed after each section of each job. I have a number of open toolboxes and they get used and then go back rather than sitting around.

[Ron Williamson]

Tools never go on the floor.They are on a bench or the tool cart with the screw box and a pile of clamps.
Scrap to burn goes in the bin,other stuff in the can.
I don't sweep the floor very often because I don't have a reason to.
Plane shavings and a bit of dust don't hurt anything,but a nasty tangled airline is something to despise.
I get pissy when someone uses a tool and doesn't bother to return it the same area.
I'm much worse when they get pissy about me being pissy.
R

[TerryLL]

Gotta disagree. The smaller the shop the more important it is to be efficient and organized, and the easier it is to keep clean. I'm doing the same thing now in 1200 sf that I once did in 240 sf. Keeping that big space clean and organized is a real challenge. The small shop, not so much.

[Bram V]

Hmm, my shop seems really small at 222 sqf, which the boat in progress shares with my tri, bikes, some supplies and the central heating. Walking around the boat is a bit of a hassle (I know, this should not be, I should have built a shorter boat), so doing that to clean up is something I hate, and with work from half a day it looks quite messy, whereas in a large shop you won't notice. Those 5 square meters (55sqf) of total floor space in my shop fill up quick.

[wizbang 13]

I think it would be horrible to build a boat in an enclosed building. noise, dust , odor, clutter.
I suppose that is one reason why most folks prefer hand tools and despise power and glue?

[emma55]

I have no Self discipline O My shop maybe 400 sq ft looks like a sawdust pile the day after in clean it up . I am to old to change at this point

[knottyBuoyz]

My boat shed is 640 sq ft with a 31' x 10' boat right smack dab in the middle of it! That doesn't leave much room for organization. I did a video virtual boat shed tour last week.

http://she-kon.blogspot.ca/2012/07/h...her-woman.html

My ole' grandpappy used to say "Never trust a workman with a clean shop. He's not busy 'nuff to be any good!" :-)

[emma55]

I think it would be horrible to build a boat in an enclosed building. noise, dust , odor, clutter.
I suppose that is one reason why most folks prefer hand tools and despise power and glue?

So spot on there my brother , In the past many boats have been built with no cover " Makes the wood good "

[stromborg]

Back in the days when I was working in/running a production shop we dedicated the last 15 minutes of the day to cleaning up, something that worked well for keeping a 20,000 square foot facility with 5-12 scenic carpenters organized. Now that I am doing my own thing in a converted 2 car garage (572 sq ft) life's different. There is definitely a sliding scale of when it's time to thouroughly clean up but usually I do a big re-org between major phases of a project or when I need to clear out a big area for something.

Minimizing permanent horizontal surfaces helps as does hanging as many tools as possible from pegboard. Also, while the big tools are plugged in to outlets on the walls I use a ceiling mounted retracting cable reel for portable tool power. The trick for me has been finding the easiest way to maintain some level of cleanliness/organization possible.

I always get a kick out of watching time-lapse videos of people's projects, amazing how long a pile can stay in one spot without anyone touchng it.

Steve

[Eddiebou]

My shop is about 2500 sq ft plus a loft over 2/3's of it. It is divided into 5 differents "rooms" or areas. At any given time, 3 out of the 5 areas are cluttered up. It is amazing how long a pile of stuff can sit in one place, but I know where everything is. And I'm not going to clean up a mess untill I'm done making it. I will cart off planer shavings in the middle of a job when they get a foot or so deep, and I never let them sit around overnight.
My workbench area stays pretty neat except for the wood shavings under the bench. My table saw and jointer are hooked to a dust collection system.
I tried the overhead receptacle thing and found that the cord was ALWAYS in my way. I keep short extention cords plugged in where I need 'em. I try to keep dust out of the receptacles and power tool switches.
Non-electric tool chips and shavings don't bother me like router shavings and saw dust does.
I tend to save too many off-cuts of wood. I tell myself I might need a piece just like that one day. Most often, The pieces are just a little too small for one reason or another. I did get lucky about a week ago and was able to use some 2' offcuts of cypress for some raised panels.As I type this I remember I was going to use them for drawer sides. Oh well.
Every horizontal surface, no matter how small or temporary is a catch-all. I avoid building or placing any table or bench in a corner or against a wall for this reason. At least if it's in the middle of the room you can walk around it and the clutter can't pile up against the wall.
And I would argue that you can't judge a man by his shop. One of the best craftsman/boatwrights I know has the junkiest, most cluttered shop. And some of the neatest cleanest craftsmen can't seam to accomplish anything in a reasonable amount of time because they get too freaked out by the dirt and clutter that comes from woodworking. I know one guy who has practically every powertool in existance and every time he uses it, it has to go back in the case it came in, with the cord in the tie-wrap, then the case has to go back in the cardboard box it came in, and back on the shelf where it came from. Come on, get a life!
Remembering back to one of my first woodworking projects, I learned fast, that it is important to be able to drop what you are doing and walk away from it. Don't have to pick everything up and break it back out everytime you want to work on it.
So a LITTLE bit of clutter and apparent disorganization is a good thing, I think.

[BrianY]

For me, the enemy of a clean shop is an undefined work schedule. When I was taking woodworking classes at a local school, we devoted the last 15 min. of each session to clean up and put everything away. Knowing what the work deadline was every session made it possible to plan what we were going to do each session so we didn't start something that we couldn't finish by the clean up time. It also instilled a routine that became automatic - something we did without thinking about it.

I find that I'm much less inclinded to clean up if my work sessions are open-ended. I'll work until I'm too tired to clean up and then just leave everything as it is. The cumulative result is chaos and it bothers me and builds until I'm so tired of it that I spend a couple of hours doing a massive clean up, cursing my laziness all the time. My brain knows I'd rather spend 15 - 20 minutes cleaning ip at the end of each work session that 2 or three hours once in a while (thereby messing up what limited time to actually get some work done), by my lazy side often rules.

[WX]

I usually tidy up when I'm not sure what to do next or I've been out of the shed for a few days. Being tidy is just not my forte...but I do dream of being tidy.

[keith mccauley]

I have been a woodworker my entire life. If you can develop a habit of keeping up with the mess you will discover that your productivity level will go way up. There have been times when I have had my entire crew of employees stop in the middle of a production run just to take 15 minutes and re-organize their tooling and clean and sweep their areas. The benefits are huge and it provides a sense of control for me. It is chaos to work in sawdust up to your knees. You might also consider finding a young energetic helper to assist with cleaning in exchange for learning a craft. Remember to share your knowledge and pass it down, it is the only way the younger generation will learn.

[timo4352]

... I'll work until I'm too tired to clean up and then just leave everything as it is. The cumulative result is chaos and it bothers me and builds until I'm so tired of it that I spend a couple of hours doing a massive clean up, cursing my laziness all the time. My brain knows I'd rather spend 15 - 20 minutes cleaning ip at the end of each work session that 2 or three hours once in a while (thereby messing up what limited time to actually get some work done), by my lazy side often rules.

I couldn't have said it any better - sounds just like me.
Hoping I can change that.

I've really got quite a response on the subject - thank you.

Tim

[emma55]

Back in the days when I was working in/running a production shop we dedicated the last 15 minutes of the day to cleaning up, something that worked well for keeping a 20,000 square foot facility with 5-12 scenic carpenters organized. Now that I am doing my own thing in a converted 2 car garage (572 sq ft) life's different. There is definitely a sliding scale of when it's time to thouroughly clean up but usually I do a big re-org between major phases of a project or when I need to clear out a big area for something.

Minimizing permanent horizontal surfaces helps as does hanging as many tools as possible from pegboard. Also, while the big tools are plugged in to outlets on the walls I use a ceiling mounted retracting cable reel for portable tool power. The trick for me has been finding the easiest way to maintain some level of cleanliness/organization possible.

I always get a kick out of watching time-lapse videos of people's projects, amazing how long a pile can stay in one spot without anyone touchng it.

Steve

I don,t like people that need control , That is not art . The ones that work like that are automtons . Best for making cars or wigets . Maybe they can,t see the sky in the Morn.

[emma55]

Maybe they never rolled over and sniffed the bacon in the Morning

[Bluegill]

Persoality quirk: Before tackling a VERY difficult job, I clean the shop, put everything back in its proper place. Think about the job, than do the job. It works for me.

[willin woodworks]

What Bluegill just said....it's hard if not impossible for me to tackle something tricky/difficult when the shop is a mess. Good time to stop and get organised. Something to do with looking at clutter makes my thinking cluttered.

It helps to have a kid. My son is great at going out to the shop and giving it a good quick clean, lighting the heater or opening up while I make another pot of coffee, round up my pipe and my little six inch rule that is never where I left it.......

There is one time when you MUST stop and clean and thats if and when the stuff on the floor presents a hazard. Tripping over cut offs and slipping on shavings means it's break time. Empty the scrap bin, sweep everything, fire up the shop vac for a few minutes and make the place safe.

Some day I'll learn to stop being a pack rat and saving every last piece of wood because it might come in handy. Maybe.

[Oldad]

I never see the mess, only the task at hand. If I have to, I push the mess aside and get to work, too impatient to clean. I had to build a new hatch for my boat, couldn't find room on the bench, dragged out two saw horses, threw a half sheet of plywood on top and set to work on the nice clean surface. Ridiculous? Yes, but I got the hatch build and out on the boat

Oldad wallowing in sawdust, scrapes and bits but doing it happily

[Brian Palmer]

My "shop" is about 1/3 of the basement, and is right next to the washer/dryer. The door to the basement is from a carpeted area of the house.

I sweep up at the end of every session whenever I make any sawdust or shavings. This does at least three things, and probably more:
1. It keeps shavings and saw dust out of the laundry and the rest of the house.
2. If I am doing a gluing job and drop a part, it won't pick up as much debris and I may be able to salvage the glue.
3. It reduces the risk of fire. For example, I have a hand-held angle grinder and a bench grinder. It would suck if a stray spark landed in a pile of shavings or saw dust and started smoldering until later that night....

I've seen photos of shops with piles of shavings and wood scraps that the owner seems to keep around as a sign that they are really doing some work. All it does is remind me of the fact that a lot of places, like Gannon and Benjamin, have burned to the ground.

I've got some large scraps that might be useful. But all other scraps either go in the trash (which then goes to a waste-to-energy plant) or go in a bucket to be used as kindling.

I have a place for all my tools, and most of those places are not in a nicely hand-crafted tool chest or even on a peg board. But, I do pretty much know where everything is when I need it.

Brian

[trango]

Interesting thread - apparently there are many different views on the importance of a clean shop. Personally, I really think that one should try to find a healthy balance between the benefits of a clean shop and the effort and time of cleaning the shop. Obviously, this balance may be completely different for different persons.

As a newbie, I've tried to keep my shop very clean - didn't work very well as I want to focus on the task at hand and not on how to keep the workspace tidy. Now I'm more pragmatic, when working with a specific task I'm really forgiving and usually only do some rudimentary cleaning. After finishing the task, everything goes back to it's proper space.

I think one of the most important reasons to keep the shop clean is the toxicity of wood dust. I'm not very bothered about a dusty floor and cabinets, It's rather the toxicity of that is the driving force behind my plans to build a cyclone system.

/Fredrik

[seedy]

I've heard the "real artists makes messes" idea many times before, in my view there's no correlation or causation between messiness and creativity or output. See no need for namecalling between neatniks (Felix) or pigpens (Oscar), both can thrive or not, every shop sees both conditions sometimes, the frequency of each is the key.

To the OP, I suggest trying other habits until you find a way that makes you happiest, since it sounds like your current regime is not doing so. For me balance is a key component, sometimes I'm hot on the trail of something and I know that I'll have a lot to clean up later (but not right now), sometimes I have nothing going on and go out there and organise so I can get something started by finding something I forgot I wanted to do.

[gondolier88]

I have been a woodworker my entire life. If you can develop a habit of keeping up with the mess you will discover that your productivity level will go way up. There have been times when I have had my entire crew of employees stop in the middle of a production run just to take 15 minutes and re-organize their tooling and clean and sweep their areas. The benefits are huge and it provides a sense of control for me. It is chaos to work in sawdust up to your knees. You might also consider finding a young energetic helper to assist with cleaning in exchange for learning a craft. Remember to share your knowledge and pass it down, it is the only way the younger generation will learn.

Couldn't agree more- those with a sense that this is a control freak thing need to take a step back- what you rather- you to control the mess, or the mess to control you?!

When you have to think about something hard, I often find not thinking about it is the best way to come to the best conclusion- pick up a brush and sweep up for 5-10mins- you'll have the answer at the end, guaranteed!

Greg

[donald branscom]

I wait until I can't walk in the shop because of stray wood bits, or until I can;t remember where I last dropped that errant tool..

I hate it...;-D

Some day you will come home and you will just see yellow
ribbons all around what used to be your house and a project and
The sign will say you cannot enter the home for any reason. FIRE MARSHAL

Your wife is on the phone too.

Then one of the neighbors will hand you a paper saying you
are being sued for damages to their homes.

Now you can go clean that shop. Right?

[Bram V]

There is stray wood bits, and there is shavings and sawdust, the latter should not linger because of the fire hazard, the former is less of a hassle. For people epoxying and painting this is more true, that sawed off part of a plank will not stick to your paint, that pile of sawdust however, is a danger to paint and property.