Odd Combo? (Transom Question)

[Ethan]

Can anyone offer up an example of a curved, raked transom on a boat that also has a transom hung rudder?

Honestly, I go back and forth on the idea of this combo....sometimes I like it - especially on a larger hull where I feel it gives some visual interest at the end of a long sheerline. Other times, I wonder if it's just indecisive, as if the design can't decide whether it wants to be a yacht or workboat.

I'm interested in what the folks here think.

Thanks!

[JimD]

Sounds like a lot of unecessary complication just to impress people with your curved transom. I would look for simpler ways to impress.

[skaraborgcraft]

Can you show an example? Dont recall ever seeing one. Cheers

[Nicholas Scheuer]

How'bout an O'Day 21? Or was it the 23?

[Paul Pless]

[Ethan]

Sounds like a lot of unecessary complication just to impress people with your curved transom. I would look for simpler ways to impress.

I'm interested in your logic, but your prose is a little sparse to follow.
Whatever impressiveness you ascribe to a curved transom is diluted by the rudder, in my mind.

Care to elaborate on your thoughts?

[Ethan]

Ok, though just barely....

[JimD]

I'm interested in your logic, but your prose is a little sparse to follow.
Whatever impressiveness you ascribe to a curved transom is diluted by the rudder, in my mind.

Care to elaborate on your thoughts?

Ethan, you said:

...sometimes I like it - especially on a larger hull where I feel it gives some visual interest at the end of a long sheerline. Other times, I wonder if it's just indecisive, as if the design can't decide whether it wants to be a yacht or workboat.

So I apologize, you are not trying to impress, you are considering the merits of the visual interest of a yacht. My .02 is that I don't like curved transoms. I don't find them visually interesting in a good way because I'm a more is less, less is more personality. To me the difference between workboat and yacht is mainly about luxury, displays of wealth, and frivolous application. None of which appeal to me. Reading TRs comment below I think his descriptive term 'classy' sums up my view quite well. Is there a boat you're thinking of putting one on?

[TR]

Can anyone offer up an example of a curved, raked transom on a boat that also has a transom hung rudder?

Off the top of my head.....Garden's Tomcat, Gilmer's Seawind and Blue Water, my own designs Hero and Teazer, Bruce King's Frog Princess, LFH's Walrus.

I wonder if it's just indecisive, as if the design can't decide whether it wants to be a yacht or workboat.

Well.....the "design" is not the decider here......it's up to the drawing guy (or gal). Then it's up to the builder to decide (for or against) again. Speaking for myself, concepts usually come complete, the transom shape is there and it's the second part drawn after the stem profile. Usually an outboard rudder is integral to the concept. I think of an outboard rudder as "simple" compared to a rudder stock, stuffing box, various bearings, etc. I know that's not allways the case. When I draw in a curved (radiused) and raked transom I'm thinking "classy". When Wavel Urry originally drew our transom it was curved horizontally and vertically, as well as raked. It's not built that way, being just curved horizontally and raked. That's enough. A curved and raked transom is about the most difficult part of a boat to build, it can add hundreds of hours to construction time. But it will grab attention.

[skaraborgcraft]

I thought you were reffering to a curve "vertically". Athwartship curves can look nice its true, is it worth the extra build time...depends on whos paying. My folkboat has a flat but steeply raked transom, you either like it or you dont, i prefer double enders so dont have much preference for transom shapes,so much depends on what kind of boat it is,style etc. Cheers

[CapnJ2ds]

I thought you were reffering to a curve "vertically".

Me too - thought you were referring to something like a lute stern, or perhaps a transom like "America's".

If you do mean a regular transom stern with outboard rudder, Tad is right - there are plenty of designs with curved transoms, and indeed it is a matter of personal preference and how much work you're prepared to do/money you're prepared to spend.

[Nicholas Scheuer]

I was visualizing rake in the other direction. Are you talking a Curved transom, or a round stern?

[TR]

Transoms can be lots of shapes, they can be vertical....or raked forward or aft. Generally they are either flat or radiused (curved), and that curve can vary from a large radius to a very small one. The transom below is raked aft and curved, in this case the HTR (horizontal transom radius) is 5'6".

[CapnJ2ds]

Transoms can be lots of shapes, they can be vertical....or raked forward or aft. Generally they are either flat or radiused (curved), and that curve can vary from a large radius to a very small one. The transom below is raked aft and curved, in this case the HTR (horizontal transom radius) is 5'6".

Mmmm...... Elegant! What is she?

[TR]

Mmmm...... Elegant! What is she?

That's the stern of Teazer, a sort of big Rozinante with overnight accommodation, inboard diesel, bulb fin keel, unstayed spars, etc........http://www.tadroberts.ca/services/sm.../sail/teazer28

[TR]

I'll also note I can find examples of this type of transom in designs from Sam Crocker, Winthrop Warner, and William Hand, among others. One of the problems this transom style presents is what to do with the name and hailing port? If both are two words it works visually from straight aft but otherwise you only see one half.....which could be awkward..........

[rbgarr]

Urry's raked, curved (hor. and vert.) transom as shown in Roger Taylor's 'Good Boats' book was the first time I'd seen that and it looked pretty special, particularly with the transom windows.

[TR]

Urry's raked, curved (hor. and vert.) transom as shown in Roger Taylor's 'Good Boats' book was the first time I'd seen that and it looked pretty special, particularly with the transom windows.

As built it's "pretty special" even simplified as it is, just lofting the parts must have taken a bit of time.........

Here it is in frame.....Northwest School Port Townsend 1980-81



And being hoisted into position on the boat......



And as it appears today.....well actually a few years back when I finished 3 days of sanding and got the first coat of varnish on.



It's hard to see in these pictures but it's raked aft a lot......it gets almost no weathering, the spiders love it and it's dry as a bone.......

[CapnJ2ds]

That's the stern of Teazer, a sort of big Rozinante with overnight accommodation, inboard diesel, bulb fin keel, unstayed spars, etc........http://www.tadroberts.ca/services/sm.../sail/teazer28

I like her - simple and elegant

[James McMullen]

Beautiful things don't need any other excuse.

[Ethan]

Beautiful things don't need any other excuse.

Agreed.

Now, could you please tell me what the hell you mean?

[Ethan]

Thanks for all of the replies so far! Lots of good ideas to consider.

To clarify, I was getting at what Tad surmised - a raked transom with a horizontal radius....plus a transom hung rudder.

I guess maybe the issue is that, like Jim, I consider myself a less is more kind of guy, but there is an aesthetic to the combination that I do find interesting. Especially as hull length increases.

I hope to post pics of the specific design that's driving the question, but I need to get the designer's ok before doing so.

[karl kirkman]

JimD.
It saddens me that you think of yachts only in such negative terms. Think of it this way: yes, yachts are built generally by persons who can afford to spend more that what is needed for a strictly functional craft, but why not think of what is sometimes purchased as beauty. I personally see beauty in the strict functionaity of a work boat, but I hope you will agree that some of the most beautiful woodenboats include yachts in which the skill of the designer brought forth extreme beauty simply for its own sake. I woulD hate to think of WORLD OF BOATS WITHOUT THELIJ KES OF bOLERO

[James McMullen]

I mean that I disagree with JimD in the importance of boat aesthetics. Especially for boats built as a hobby. I take great satisfaction in the gratuitous craftsmanship I have added to my own boats just because. Having a prettier boat than all the other guys at the dock means you win. And my boat is a workboat, with barnacle scrapes and sand in the bilge just the same.

[JimD]

I appreciate beauty as much as the next guy. Here's a few transoms I could live with:

[Paul Pless]

That Mister JimD, he's no philistine. . .

[karl kirkman]

The Ariminta transom shot raises an interesting aesthetic point. I was trained that the cove stripe should have somewhat less spring than the sheer, and as one progresses down the topsides to the bootop, it should have less than the cove stripe; and it should have less spring to the lower edge than the upper.

[JimD]

The Ariminta transom shot raises an interesting aesthetic point. I was trained that the cove stripe should have somewhat less spring than the sheer, and as one progresses down the topsides to the bootop, it should have less than the cove stripe; and it should have less spring to the lower edge than the upper.

Just my humble opinion but I think every line must balance in some way with every other line and this may result in the ocassional ad hoc rule being broken for the sake of aesthetics overall.