Where would us gun laws be without the nra?

[Bob Adams]

Phillip got me thinking about this. I definately do not buy all of the NRAs positions and routinely throw their mailings in the trash without opening. Still, I am a member. I remain a member because I think without them we would have experianced a major loss of gun rights especially in the aftermath of horrific events like Colorado. What do you think gun laws would look like if the NRA never existed.

[wardd]

auto safety was the result of horrific accidents

[2MeterTroll]

still on my hip instead of on a shelf.

[Phillip Allen]

there would have been no compromises from the anti crowd and the defination of 'reasonable' would be much different

[Dan McCosh]

The NRA initiated many gun laws before it began to oppose them. The thinking in the old days was that rational gun control was good for society and improved the image of legitimate hunters and users of firearms. IMO, it has became aligned with some very extreme positions, notably the one I brought up in the thread about teenagers carrying arms in heavily-used shopping centers.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

The NRA has perptrated a fraud against their membehip by convincing them the Second Amendment guarantees the right to acquire and keep offensive armaments of the most dangerous types.

[Phillip Allen]

The NRA has perptrated a fraud against their membehip by convincing them the Second Amendment guarantees the right to acquire and keep offensive armaments of the most dangerous types.

can you back that up please... links? printed material and the source of those materials etc?

[Bob Adams]

The NRA has perptrated a fraud against their membehip by convincing them the Second Amendment guarantees the right to acquire and keep offensive armaments of the most dangerous types.

Document please.

Edit:
Phillip and I must have had our bull$h!t detector go off at the same time!

[wardd]

can you back that up please... links? printed material and the source of those materials etc?

you're quite right phill, the nra does too want to ban certain types of personal weapons

[Phillip Allen]

Document please.

Edit:
Phillip and I must have had our bull$h!t detector go off at the same time!

Kinda made my ears hurt

[Glen Longino]

can you back that up please... links? printed material and the source of those materials etc?

You mean back it up like you backup all your claptrap comments?
Ha!

[wardd]

phill, just show him all the literature the nra sends out recommending the banning of weapons

[Chip-skiff]

Links to info on the malignant influence of the NRA on US politics and reasonable gun regulation.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/03...und-law/186459

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...bloomberg.html

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...aws/?mobile=nc

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1364

http://www.nashvillescene.com/pitw/a...rs-for-loyalty

http://www.politicususa.com/nra-shru...ng-romney.html

http://www.mycuentame.org/is_the_nra...n_drug_cartels


You support this group? Shame!

[Bob Adams]

Links to info on the malignant influence of the NRA on US politics and reasonable gun regulation.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/03...und-law/186459

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...bloomberg.html

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...aws/?mobile=nc

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1364

http://www.nashvillescene.com/pitw/a...rs-for-loyalty

http://www.politicususa.com/nra-shru...ng-romney.html

http://www.mycuentame.org/is_the_nra...n_drug_cartels


You support this group? Shame!

You actually read this stuff right? It is a pile of spin. I am a member, and I am not ashamed. The differance between you and me is, I have admitted I don't agree with all the NRA positions, you cannot see anything that does not agree 100 precent with your POV.See the propaganda for what it is.

[Waddie]

At one time the NRA had leadership that was more than willing to agree to "reasonable" gun restrictions. Each legislative session the anti-gun lobby would propose new restrictions even though they promised the ones previously agreed to were all that they wanted. Just one more gun law is all they asked for.....then just one more.......then just one more........

It became clear to the NRA voting membership that the ultimate goal of the anti-gun lobby was no firearms in the hands of citizens. Period.. Citizens couldn't be trusted with firearms.

So the membership elected leadership that drew a line in the sand that said 26,000+ gun laws were enough. Enforce what you already passed and give out mandatory sentences for using a gun in a crime. (We've yet to see that happen on any large scale. Gun charges are one of the most commonly plea bargained criminal charges. Example; The felon pleads guilty to simple assault if the gun charge is dropped. No trial, no mandatory sentence, cheaper for the state). The NRA supported using psychiatric records as part of the instant check, but that was opposed by the mental health community as they felt it would deter people from seeking treatment if their records became part of a background check system. Doctor-patient confidentiality still keeps many unstable people from being reported - and therefore still able to buy guns. So we have a fairly porous instant check system that does a poor job of screening out the mentally unstable.

regards,
Waddie

[Bob Adams]

Well said Waddie, it is the "all or nothing" mentality that is the barrier to "common sense" restrictions. To some, "common sense" is confiscation.

[Phillip Allen]

At one time the NRA had leadership that was more than willing to agree to "reasonable" gun restrictions. Each legislative session the anti-gun lobby would propose new restrictions even though they promised the ones previously agreed to were all that they wanted. Just one more gun law is all they asked for.....then just one more.......then just one more........

It became clear to the NRA voting membership that the ultimate goal of the anti-gun lobby was no firearms in the hands of citizens. Period.. Citizens couldn't be trusted with firearms.

So the membership elected leadership that drew a line in the sand that said 26,000+ gun laws were enough. Enforce what you already passed and give out mandatory sentences for using a gun in a crime. (We've yet to see that happen on any large scale. Gun charges are one of the most commonly plea bargained criminal charges. Example; The felon pleads guilty to simple assault if the gun charge is dropped. No trial, no mandatory sentence, cheaper for the state). The NRA supported using psychiatric records as part of the instant check, but that was opposed by the mental health community as they felt it would deter people from seeking treatment if their records became part of a background check system. Doctor-patient confidentiality still keeps many unstable people from being reported - and therefore still able to buy guns. So we have a fairly porous instant check system that does a poor job of screening out the mentally unstable.

regards,
Waddie

I remember that era quite well... it's what I base my INFORMED resistance on ... the thing speaks for itself (can never remember the Latin spelling)

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Document please.

Edit:
Phillip and I must have had our bull$h!t detector go off at the same time!

Documents! You been out of the country? A guy just walked into a movie house with weapon that had a 100 round magazine and sprayed the crowd. Until he pull that trigger he was completely legal as far as I can tell. He was completly covered with bulletproof clothing. Again all legally obtained.
Is that what the Founding Fathers intended?

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

You actually read this stuff right? It is a pile of spin. I am a member, and I am not ashamed. The differance between you and me is, I have admitted I don't agree with all the NRA positions, you cannot see anything that does not agree 100 precent with your POV.See the propaganda for what it is.

That's right! If stuff doesn't have Wayne LaPierre's imprimater on it it has to be propaganda.

[Chip-skiff]

You actually read this stuff right? It is a pile of spin. I am a member, and I am not ashamed. The differance between you and me is, I have admitted I don't agree with all the NRA positions, you cannot see anything that does not agree 100 precent with your POV.See the propaganda for what it is.

Did you bother to read any of it past the headlines? Of course not.

FYI, Both me and my wife hunt every year and own several firearms. I don't think the NRA has anything to do these days with preserving my right to hunt, which does not depend on being able to purchase assault rifles with high-cap magazines or carrying a Glock to church.

Spin that.

(And your use of a quote from Gandhi demonstrates either sardonic humor or utter incomprehension.)

[Glen Longino]

I remember that era quite well... it's what I base my INFORMED resistance on ... the thing speaks for itself (can never remember the Latin spelling)

The Latin spelling is BS!
Simple, ain't it?

[Bob Adams]

Did you bother to read any of it past the headlines? Of course not.

FYI, Both me and my wife hunt every year and own several firearms. I don't think the NRA has anything to do these days with preserving my right to hunt, which does not depend on being able to purchase assault rifles with high-cap magazines or carrying a Glock to church.

Spin that.

(And your use of a quote from Gandhi demonstrates either sardonic humor or utter incomprehension.)

It's a free country, believe what you want. My signature is completely approriate, I beleive in peace.

[Chip-skiff]

It's a free country, believe what you want. My signature is completely approriate, I beleive in peace.

Is this where you got it?

[Bob Adams]

Not even funny, well maybe it is to you.

[Chris Coose]

What do you think gun laws would look like if the NRA never existed.

Saner.

[Phillip Allen]

I think I better bring this forward so that Chuck can be held accountable for his own ... ah... misinformation

The NRA has perptrated a fraud against their membehip by convincing them the Second Amendment guarantees the right to acquire and keep offensive armaments of the most dangerous types.

[wardd]

i'll just discuss adult males here

did the founding fathers allow all adult males to possess arms?

[Chip-skiff]

sugjective from a bigoted position

Sanity is subjective and bigoted?

You are a lovely piece of work.

[Bob Adams]

Sanity is subjective and bigoted?

You are a lovely piece of work.

It all depends upon your point of view doesn't it?

[Phillip Allen]

It all depends upon your point of view doesn't it?

like... his bigoted point of view?

[Chris Coose]

No problem admitting my dislike for American gun culture for just as long as you have adored it.

It is Pavlovian to see your chin get struck with the knee jerk from a 5 letter word.

[Phillip Allen]

No problem admitting my dislike for American gun culture for just as long as you have adored it.

It is Pavlovian to see your chin get struck with the knee jerk from a 5 letter word.

your 'gun culture' term is a fantasy. You may as well say jet ski culture... the 'culture' is an abused word

[wardd]

your 'gun culture' term is a fantasy. You may as well say jet ski culture... the 'culture' is an abused word

so the nra is a fiction?

[Glen Longino]

your 'gun culture' term is a fantasy. You may as well say jet ski culture... the 'culture' is an abused word

Well, that's merely your opinion, isn't it Mr. Gun Culture Dictator?
Where do you get off telling other people what to say?
Who the hell do you think you are, Sam F?

[Phillip Allen]

I'll bet Glen said 'Gun Culture Dictator' through clenched teeth

you'd better be careful of the hyperventilation

Oh, and cover your keyboard

[Glen Longino]

I'll bet Glen said 'Gun Culture Dictator' through clenched teeth

you'd better be careful of the hyperventilation

Oh, and cover your keyboard

And of course you'd be mistaken...so what's new?
Don't even try to tell me what I'd better do.
Hey, it ain't me what's looking for a keyboard to fit my stubby stiff fingers and ain't got the brains to Google!
Sorry, but you begged for it!

[ccmanuals]

Jim Wright of Stonekettle station recently wrote a pretty good article on gun violence.

http://www.stonekettle.com/

[John Smith]

The NRA has perptrated a fraud against their membehip by convincing them the Second Amendment guarantees the right to acquire and keep offensive armaments of the most dangerous types.

The second amendment is the most taken out of context thing in the historyof our country.

The NRA is not your father's NRA. What is its purpose in opposing any kind of regulations on guns?

[wardd]

The second amendment is the most taken out of context thing in the historyof our country.

The NRA is not your father's NRA. What is its purpose in opposing any kind of regulations on guns?

the gun industry

[Waddie]

The NRA is not your father's NRA. What is its purpose in opposing any kind of regulations on guns?

read post #15...... BTW; the NRA supports lots of regulations on guns. Just not many of the ones the anti-gun lobby wants.

regards,
Waddie

[Chris Coose]

As a perfect representative and spokesman for American gun culture, I suppose you can call yourself anything you want to.

Mr. Gun Culture Dictator is not bad. nra sock puppet is a better fit.

[John Smith]

read post #15...... BTW; the NRA supports lots of regulations on guns. Just not many of the ones the anti-gun lobby wants.

regards,
Waddie

All seems kind of hopeless.

[Glen Longino]

As a perfect representative and spokesman for American gun culture, I suppose you can call yourself anything you want to.

Mr. Gun Culture Dictator is not bad. nra sock puppet is a better fit.

Funny thing, the harder I try to make a peaceful and humanitarian world, all the harder the Troglodytes assure me that it can't happen!
And the harder they try to assure me that they maintain their right to kill one another and create general mayhem.
Crazy bastids!

[Chris Coose]

And they deny it is a culture of the absurd, while calling us the aggressors. And blood, guts and brains of the innocent gets mopped up by the bucket load.

[Glen Longino]

And they deny it is a culture of the absurd, while calling us the aggressors. And blood, guts and brains of the innocent gets mopped up by the bucket load.

Yep! Phillip will be along shortly to tell us we are shortsighted and simply need more guns and better guns with better sights!

[LeeG]

Make sure and wash your hands after dicing jalapeños

[Waddie]

All seems kind of hopeless.

When people say we have a "gun culture" I tend to agree with them. In Europe gun ownership and even hunting were primarily the domains of the ruling classes, the aristocratic class, not the peasants. As was land ownership.

When European peasants settled this continent they brought their desires for equality with them. They wanted to own land, even the most "common" settler dreamed of land ownership - it was a way of being the equal of all other men. Remember, early on only land owners could vote. They had learned back in Europe that people who couldn't defend their rights had no rights. And they wanted to be able to own guns, and equated gun ownership with equality. BTW, guns were an important means with which to claim the land and defend it from native peoples or anyone else.

Along with the possibility of being part of the propertied class and owning guns they also wanted religious freedom and free speech, among other things. So we are a "gun culture", and a "property culture" and a "free speech" culture, etc.

Comparing us to most other countries really is like comparing apples to oranges, as it is also difficult to compare many cultures to each other. The Japanese have almost no cultural history with firearms but they have a definite cultural affinity with suicide. Even today Japan has one of the highest rates of teen suicide in the world. Most nations who did not rebel against English rule but gained their freedom gradually over time have less of a cultural dependency on firearms to win their freedoms and a less ingrained notion that owning firearms was a fundamental freedom.

But when you combine our gun freedoms with our multicultural society with it's emphasis on the narrative that the individual is supreme, the self made man, the rugged individual and lack of any universal cultural group identity and cohesion, then violence is going to be more prevalent.

What I mean by universal cultural group identity and cohesion; How many times is something described as a "black" problem, or that it's a "Jewish" thing. , or even that it's acting "white " . In the US there are lots of "others"; in fact, almost everyone is an "other".

So hopeless? In a sense no, if we can ever manage to assimilate to a point where there are more of "us" than there are of "others". Of course, this process could make politics in general a lot easier too.....

regards,
Waddie

[Chris Coose]

Culture : "the behaviors and beliefs characteristic of a particular social, ethnic, or age group: the youth culture; the drug culture.

The gun culture crew should be addressing the behaviors of the masacre element rather than dismissing the blood letting as having anything to do with guns, especially the big bullet guns that fire rapidly.

[Bob Adams]

I started this thread with the insane idea there might be some interesting conjecture. Instead I got the normal hate spewing closed minded bile that pops up on every gun thread. Maybe I am insane...the definition being trying the same thing over and over expecting different results. The word bigot popped up. That can apply to any point of view, pro or anti, it simply means a mind closed to any view that is not theirs. If you only see in black and white you are blind. Liberate yourselves folks, ocassionally try to see through the other persons eyes, you may find it enlightening. As to the insults hurled at my signature, I am a man of peace, wishing there was no violence in this world, but there is, and when it comes to my house, I will defend it.

[Phillip Allen]

Thank you Bob and Waddie... it is heartening to see intelligence among the parrots who are limited to flying in flocks, squawking and sh**ing.