Page 3 of 53 FirstFirst ... 23413 ... LastLast
Results 71 to 105 of 1839

Thread: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

  1. #71
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Above flood level, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    17,773

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    Am I understanding you correctly Peter?

    Will you be making a stem a-la Mr Cricket's number above, or you'll be making a stem up in a fashion similar to a twin layered sawn frame?
    Jarndyce and Jarndyce

    The Mighty Pippin
    Mirror 30141
    Looe
    Dragon KA93

  2. #72
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern NSW Australia
    Posts
    73,788

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Gibbs View Post
    Am I understanding you correctly Peter?

    Will you be making a stem a-la Mr Cricket's number above, or you'll be making a stem up in a fashion similar to a twin layered sawn frame?
    Similar to a multi layered sawn frame Duncan, seems to be just as good as a lamination and with a huge saving in epoxy. At the moment I'm imagining something like a 1" core with 2 x 1/2" outside layers, all joints well offset .... but I'll have to have a good look at the timber sizes available in my racks.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  3. #73
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Above flood level, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    17,773

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    A 'built up' stem like the one Jim posted would be even less epoxy. A couple of bolts wouldn't go astray. Much less end grain as well.

    Once more I find myself agreeing with Terry:

    Don't do it, don't do it. A glued-up [..]wood stem is just so amateurish. Yes it's easy, sufficiently strong and stiff, quick, and cheap. But this boat deserves better.
    You prolly don't care though. It's all going to be painted. You'll even be a total epoxy convert by the time this is done. I know you Sibley!
    Jarndyce and Jarndyce

    The Mighty Pippin
    Mirror 30141
    Looe
    Dragon KA93

  4. #74
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    SPID
    Posts
    6,030

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Gibbs View Post
    A 'built up' stem like the one Jim posted would be even less epoxy. A couple of bolts wouldn't go astray. Much less end grain as well.

    Once more I find myself agreeing with Terry:



    You prolly don't care though. It's all going to be painted. You'll even be a total epoxy convert by the time this is done. I know you Sibley!
    The biggest problem I faced using overlapping futtocks in solid wood for the stem was the weird changes in grain direction, which made cutting the stem bevels with a plane difficult. On my current build I went with Doug Fir lams, much like Peter's first attempt. Cutting the bevels on a laminated stem is much easier. Those lams will bend easily around that form after they've had a hot water treatment, so my advice is to give the laminated stem another go.

  5. #75
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    7,469

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    Very nice to see this thread underway.Congrats Mr.Sibley on a fine design choice. Canoe-yawls are such seductresses!!


    And I do, must really say, like this bit from TerryLL;"Ain't nothin' more important to get excited about than how best to spile a plank." I'd buy the first series of rounds for him, just on those words alone!


    Best of work on your boat Mr.Sibley. The pictures are always a treat!



    Cheers!


    Petebr />

    P.S. another vote for giving the laminated stem another go but with hot water this time.
    Do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,now!
    J.Lennon

    This boat was built with ten thumbs.No fingers were harmed in anyway.

  6. #76
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Auburn Ca in the Sierra Foothills
    Posts
    780

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    I'm with the lam crowd as well, though what do I know. Some hot water on the bundle maybe and most important, lots of clamps and cawls to support the bend all the way around the corner. Also check your stock for runout. Then all the grain will be running in the right direction for an easy bevel. Then your back to arguing about spilling techniques!

  7. #77
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    7,469

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    Quote Originally Posted by John How View Post
    Then your back to arguing about spilling techniques!
    Yippee! I canna wait!
    Do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,now!
    J.Lennon

    This boat was built with ten thumbs.No fingers were harmed in anyway.

  8. #78
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Port Stephens
    Posts
    17,972

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    Spilling is my speciality.

    Rick

  9. #79
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    7,469

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    Keep your hand steady an' you'll do a lot less spilling and a whole lot more swallowing while the rest of us spile the nights away. I think that is what we do at night,isn't it?
    Do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,now!
    J.Lennon

    This boat was built with ten thumbs.No fingers were harmed in anyway.

  10. #80
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern NSW Australia
    Posts
    73,788

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    I know the trick to gently and lovingly shaping reversed grain ..... it's called a disc sander. I'm not a nice woodworker .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  11. #81
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Above flood level, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    17,773

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    We know you're not nice, and that you're a woodworker: You are actually quite skilled at woodworking. But, you're right: Not nice!
    Jarndyce and Jarndyce

    The Mighty Pippin
    Mirror 30141
    Looe
    Dragon KA93

  12. #82
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    391

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    I know the trick to gently and lovingly shaping reversed grain ..... it's called a disc sander. I'm not a nice woodworker .
    Sanding is being polite. I prefer a power plane . . .

  13. #83
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Port Stephens
    Posts
    17,972

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    Keep your hand steady an' you'll do a lot less spilling and a whole lot more swallowing
    And thus leaving moi completely unskiled ..... non!!

    Rick

  14. #84
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Rushworth Australia
    Posts
    2,510

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    One wasted afternoon , well not totally wasted , I now have a great pile of sawdust and a lot of neat firewood starter and have learned how not to do something! I ripped out all the laminates for the stern post inner and the stem inner . All at around 1/8" x 2 1/4" but they really don't like the bend. Admittedly it's a hard one and my stack of oregon is dry 20 years .




    I dug out Iain Oughtred's excellent book from under of layer of sawdust and discovered that he suggests a layered futtock method as his first choice ! Duh ! That's the way it will go now, 3 layers of 17mm.
    Love this pic Pete ( with the big notation and arrows), If it makes you feel any better ( you're right probably doesnt) I glued up my stem and when I was patting myself on the back for very little springback and a job well done, and then I noticed that I'd put the clamp blocks on back to front so the stem was too small. AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH DDDDDDDOOOOHHHHH Had to make a new one. GGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRR

  15. #85
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern NSW Australia
    Posts
    73,788

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    Yep, I know that is there is a doppy way of doing something I'll find it so in the very rare moments of clarity I write myself notes !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  16. #86
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    1,033

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    One wasted afternoon , well not totally wasted , I now have a great pile of sawdust and a lot of neat firewood starter and have learned how not to do something! I ripped out all the laminates for the stern post inner and the stem inner . All at around 1/8" x 2 1/4" but they really don't like the bend. Admittedly it's a hard one and my stack of oregon is dry 20 years .
    That stem forefoot bend, although pretty tight, is generally quite short where the radius is tight - you can quickly use the standard 'big' pot on the kitchen stove with the bend section laid across and under the lid, and steam just the tight bend sections without much fuss - then let dry in the sun.

    sayla

  17. #87
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern NSW Australia
    Posts
    73,788

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    I could laminate them but instead I've got out some 1" and 1/2" oregon and will layer them up, the 1" centrally and the 2 x1/2" layers on both outside faces, a nice balanced saw and glued construction .

    BTW, that's the stern post .

    Layers.jpgLayered sternpost.jpg
    Last edited by PeterSibley; 09-10-2017 at 11:07 PM.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  18. #88
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    391

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewpatrol View Post
    Love this pic Pete ( with the big notation and arrows), If it makes you feel any better ( you're right probably doesnt) I glued up my stem and when I was patting myself on the back for very little springback and a job well done, and then I noticed that I'd put the clamp blocks on back to front so the stem was too small. AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH DDDDDDDOOOOHHHHH Had to make a new one. GGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRR
    Now there's a guy off the same mold as me!

    I designed a canoe on mathematical principles - no, that wasn't the mistake - in which the stem profile was developed from the rib profile. Formed the curved ribs a dozen at a time on a jig and used one of them to create the stem profile. Built a pair of nice stems, carved the bevels etc. Then I took another look at the ribs and decided they werenít quite right so I rebuild the jig and make a bunch more. They were perfect this time.

    So I started to built the boat. It went together so easily, just as the mathematics had predicted. That is until the plank hoods started to work their way around the stem foot, when it started to get more difficult as the strips began to twist.They weren't supposed to twist; that was what the mathematics was all about. The danged stems were the wrong shape for the second batch of ribs.

    I finished the build and it looks great but Iím not really happy with it: either mathematics or boat building is very unforgiving.

  19. #89
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    SPID
    Posts
    6,030

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Haines View Post

    I finished the build and it looks great but I’m not really happy with it: either mathematics or boat building is very unforgiving.
    Another fine example of how easy it is to design a boat that's difficult to build. The genius of Oughtred is that he designs very shapely and gorgeous hulls that are simple to build.

  20. #90
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Duncan, Vancouver Island
    Posts
    28,131

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    Might have bent better on the inside of the jig rather than around the outside. A length of metal strap around the outside might help, too, the way mast hoops are coaxed to take such tight bends. Also, that grain looks all wrong for bending. Sorry to sound nasty, Peter


  21. #91
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    391

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    Quote Originally Posted by TerryLL View Post
    Another fine example of how easy it is to design a boat that's difficult to build. The genius of Oughtred is that he designs very shapely and gorgeous hulls that are simple to build.
    Not really difficult. My designs aren't hard to build at all but I don't claim they can hold a candle to Iain's in the looks department! It was pretty straightforward to build, just not as easy as it was supposed to be. I was a bit cheesed off at myself for not realizing my mistake before it was embedded into the boat . . .

  22. #92
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Northern Europe
    Posts
    9,687

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Haines View Post
    Not really difficult. My designs aren't hard to build at all but I don't claim they can hold a candle to Iain's in the looks department! It was pretty straightforward to build, just not as easy as it was supposed to be. I was a bit cheesed off at myself for not realizing my mistake before it was embedded into the boat . . .
    But think how well "the next one" will turn out!

  23. #93
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    1,033

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    BTW, that's the stern post .
    Doh! My assumption comes from remembering some of that photo with my stem.

  24. #94
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern NSW Australia
    Posts
    73,788

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    I had a bit of time today and ripped up a few length of recycled oregon, planed it flat and square then ripped it and planed it up, I'm really appreciating the machinery I have here .

    P2060016.jpg



    I cut everything to shape, aligned it ready to glue but didn't glue it, it's going to be pretty cool here tonight and epoxy would just sit there , sticky until tomorrow. I'll do it on the weekend. I've set it up with 3 layers, the inner at 1" and the 2 outside layers at 1/2" . There is a lot of overlap and I think this will create a good balanced laminate. I've drilled the unglued assembly for 1/8" x 3"nails to hold everything in position and will replace them with 4" screws with cute little blocks on top to assist in removal should the epoxy harden before I unscrew them.

    Planer.jpg

    edited for spelling ....as usual !
    Last edited by PeterSibley; 04-03-2018 at 02:12 AM.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  25. #95
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    832

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    Looks great Peter, nice hunk of old iron for your planer.

  26. #96
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern NSW Australia
    Posts
    73,788

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    She's a good old thing Jim, about 50 years old, locally made with a cone clutch on the feed and a 2 1/4 hp 240v motor that never gets even warm.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  27. #97
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    445

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    Might have bent better on the inside of the jig rather than around the outside. A length of metal strap around the outside might help, too, the way mast hoops are coaxed to take such tight bends. Also, that grain looks all wrong for bending. Sorry to sound nasty, Peter

    I would use blocks under the the clamp , Blocks with some concave surface . And on the next try ,clamp the lams on that apex of the bend first , I find that sometimes bending lams could take a few days a little at at time . And something that has all been stated thin spring steel or even some type of plastic can hold everything like a splint

  28. #98
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Duncan, Vancouver Island
    Posts
    28,131

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    Quote Originally Posted by emma55 View Post
    I would use blocks under the the clamp , Blocks with some concave surface . And on the next try ,clamp the lams on that apex of the bend first , I find that sometimes bending lams could take a few days a little at at time . And something that has all been stated thin spring steel or even some type of plastic can hold everything like a splint
    Blocks sounds like a good idea.

  29. #99
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    SPID
    Posts
    6,030

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    Alas, it seems Peter has moved on to a different stem construction.

  30. #100
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    391

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    Quote Originally Posted by TerryLL View Post
    Alas, it seems Peter has moved on to a different stem construction.
    - oh, futtocks!

  31. #101
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Above flood level, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    17,773

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    That's them!

    Interestingly I think Arch Davis specifies something similar for his peapod.
    Jarndyce and Jarndyce

    The Mighty Pippin
    Mirror 30141
    Looe
    Dragon KA93

  32. #102
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Port Stephens
    Posts
    17,972

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Haines View Post
    - oh, futtocks!
    No s, Reverend!

    Rick

  33. #103
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    SPID
    Posts
    6,030

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    Where the heck are all those Peter photos we were promised?

  34. #104
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern NSW Australia
    Posts
    73,788

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    I've got to DO something to photograph it .... I'll post a photo of me ordering a new bandsaw blade .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  35. #105
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern NSW Australia
    Posts
    73,788

    Default Re: JIM, an 18 foot canoe yawl.

    Here is my layered stem. 3 layers, 1/2", 1" the 1/2" . The result should be a well balanced laminate. I assembled it dry, taped and indexed the edges, stacked it then drilled 1/8" holes right through but outside the eventual stem. Those holes were really useful as an aid to assembly when the surfaces were slippery with epoxy ! Epoxy makes an amazingly inconvenient lubricant when trying to assemble parts, especially when you can't see any layer but the top one. JIM is my first big job with epoxy so this is a steep learning curve !




    This is the bottom layer showing tape and alignment marks .




    Just clamped up with plenty of excess glue oozing out . I'm probably using too much glue but I'd prefer to have a bit of waste than a starved joint. The clamping is just light, enough to just close the gaps .





    A shot showing the steel nail alignment pins, they should be easy enough to get out even if I leave then in too long. A bit of heat and they should be easy to pull.

    I've ordered a nice new bandsaw blade as the old one is horrible! I'll be able to find the shape inside this lot if all goes well.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •