So, what is the answer to gun violence?

[skipper68]

I had the misfortune of being broke in on, in 1976. I was alone, with my baby sleeping in the next room. I woke up to a guy walking out of my bedroom. After doing a dirty deed on my blanket, his legs must have been shakey. He touched my dresser and my necklaces rattled and I woke up. I slept with my 357 Magnum between my bed and wall, and drew it on him. I couldn't shoot though, as he hadn't hurt me. In hindsight, I probably should have-not knowing how my baby was, in her crib. I DID know, if I did shoot, he would be surly dead. He was a pro, and had my car keys, money, check book and all my real gold and silver on the kitchen table. After that, I bought a 22, so I could take out a leg. Now I have a small 22, and a large 9MM. I like choices.

[Bob Adams]

I had the misfortune of being broke in on, in 1976. I was alone, with my baby sleeping in the next room. I woke up to a guy walking out of my bedroom. After doing a dirty deed on my blanket, his legs must have been shakey. He touched my dresser and my necklaces rattled and I woke up. I slept with my 357 Magnum between my bed and wall, and drew it on him. I couldn't shoot though, as he hadn't hurt me. In hindsight, I probably should have-not knowing how my baby was, in her crib. I DID know, if I did shoot, he would be surly dead. He was a pro, and had my car keys, money, check book and all my real gold and silver on the kitchen table. After that, I bought a 22, so I could take out a leg. Now I have a small 22, and a large 9MM. I like choices.

Well I hope the formites treat you better than they did me a while back when I posted about my presentation of a firearm in a night time break in. Like you, no shots fired. But you see...this stuff doesn't really happen....

[John Smith]

Soldiers yes, LEO ... how many have they killed from fear of officer safety? (and with guns!)

The people of Aurora live in a "gun-free" community. As was the theatre. There was no risk, in their eyes. They'd banished the boggy-gunman. Closing your eyes to danger only works in the movies, and then only sometimes.

If you think anything we do will prevent some madmann from shooting up a McDonald's, a subway car, a post office, or a movie theater, you are, IMO, living in a dreamworld. You can go to the other extreme and be paranoid and never go anywhere for fear of a madman shooting up the place.

The odds are higher that I will get killed by a one on one gunman than they are that I'll get killed going to the movies.

"They" can't do much, if anything, about either of these things happening. I see my family overprotect my granddaughter because some kids get kidnapped each year. I have no idea why some of these cases get so much attention and others get none, but I do believe that we have a misconception that these things happen more often simply because we hear about them more often.

Back when Donahue had his show, he had a couple of FBI people as guests. They told us of school shootings going back to just this side of the 1900. They didn't make national news. the number of kids taken by non family members has been pretty consistant over the years.

You're more likely to get killed in a car crash on the way to the theater, but few are paranoid enough to stay out of cars.

This is our country: the one with "amber waves" of grain and the one God shed his grace on.

[John Smith]

Soldiers yes, LEO ... how many have they killed from fear of officer safety? (and with guns!)

The people of Aurora live in a "gun-free" community. As was the theatre. There was no risk, in their eyes. They'd banished the boggy-gunman. Closing your eyes to danger only works in the movies, and then only sometimes.

I can't seem to edit. A lot of soldiers have killed a lot of innocent people out of fear for their own lives, or maybe because it was fun.

My point is that if I decide to be a cop or a soldier, I am accepting as part of the job that someone may try to kill me.

[skipper68]

In your home you have a right to protect yourself and family. If he had entered my bed, I would have killed him without a second thought. The choice was- did he harm me? When I told him to "Freeze" he ran out the door. Times are different now. I would shoot first, with the 22 to the leg, then ask why he was in my home. It's my right, and no one should take it away. If only criminals have illegal guns, we are all screwed. They need to know we are not their prey.

[John Smith]

Stop letting any fool buy firearms might be a good start. This bloke for instance.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19022567

That's only a soundbite. The question is HOW do you prevent people like this from buying firearms. If legal sales are ceased, the value of those firearms that have already been bought goes up and the black market thrives.

NYC on a few occasions has bought guns, no questions asked, for $75. I wish I could draw well enough to make a cartoon strip of a kid selling his dad's old gun and taking his $75 to 42nd Street and using it to buy a much younger, better weapon.

[John Smith]

And judging by the current sales figures they would then buy more guns..... guns make you safe, haven't you heard?

That definitely seems to be a popular opinion. I did ask, "What to I need a gun to protect myself from other than a guy with a gun?" and I don't believe I got a serious answer to that question.

My hope would be that if the general public saw the daily carnage there would be more support for addressing the problem. I don't see any workable way to solve the problem, but there's a lot of smart people out there and some of them may have some good ideas.

A year ago I suggested that all stores have metal detectors at the door with a video feed to the police station. When the detector senses metal, the video is immediately monitored by the police and officers are sent to that location. I know that sounds expensive and drastic, but I expect it would be effective insofar as robberies are concerned.

[John Smith]

I had the misfortune of being broke in on, in 1976. I was alone, with my baby sleeping in the next room. I woke up to a guy walking out of my bedroom. After doing a dirty deed on my blanket, his legs must have been shakey. He touched my dresser and my necklaces rattled and I woke up. I slept with my 357 Magnum between my bed and wall, and drew it on him. I couldn't shoot though, as he hadn't hurt me. In hindsight, I probably should have-not knowing how my baby was, in her crib. I DID know, if I did shoot, he would be surly dead. He was a pro, and had my car keys, money, check book and all my real gold and silver on the kitchen table. After that, I bought a 22, so I could take out a leg. Now I have a small 22, and a large 9MM. I like choices.

It would have been fine with me if you shot him. You are in your own home protecting yourself. That is not the same thing as playing hero in a crowded place.

I can't seem to get this question answered: If you were in that theater and fired your weapon and killed my child, what is your liability?

There seems to be an assumption by one group here that the "hero" would draw his weapon and shoot the bad buy and end the situtation. That is a possible scenario. It is not, however, the only possible scenario and all the other possibile scenarios are not so good. This would work out the way it is hoped one time out of how many? One out of four?

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

then shouldn't we go after the supply then?

Absolutely, but how do we get the guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them, when they can buy stolen guns on the street for cheap.

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

And what's your liability if your bullet kills my child?

Good question.
I'd have trouble living with that.
My only defence is my life was in danger and I was trying to defend myself.
If I shoot the right person and save your child, what then?

[Phillip Allen]

Good question.
I'd have trouble living with that.
My only defence is my life was in danger and I was trying to defend myself.
If I shoot the right person and save your child, what then?

if you save his child you will be assailed at a different time for your political beliefs... these utopian-absolutists are eternally grateful

[John Smith]

Good question.
I'd have trouble living with that.
My only defence is my life was in danger and I was trying to defend myself.
If I shoot the right person and save your child, what then?

That ducks the question. a number of things can happen if someone with a gun decides to play hero, and they're not all good.

If you decide to play hero, it had better lead to the desired result, otherwise you are as guilty of murder as the one you're tryig to kill.

[Phillip Allen]

That ducks the question. a number of things can happen if someone with a gun decides to play hero, and they're not all good.

If you decide to play hero, it had better lead to the desired result, otherwise you are as guilty of murder as the one you're tryig to kill.

the funny thing about a heard of 'what-ifs' is that they can be directed to perform any scenario the author wants them to... no matter how improbable

[Phillip Allen]

That ducks the question. a number of things can happen if someone with a gun decides to play hero, and they're not all good.

If you decide to play hero, it had better lead to the desired result, otherwise you are as guilty of murder as the one you're tryig to kill.

so you contend that all ccw people lay awake at night pretending to be heros... thought so... you are stilted in your thinking, John

[Phillip Allen]

That ducks the question. a number of things can happen if someone with a gun decides to play hero, and they're not all good.

If you decide to play hero, it had better lead to the desired result, otherwise you are as guilty of murder as the one you're tryig to kill.

how many blue on blue events have resulted in murder trials... go ahead, don't hold back John.

[John Smith]

so you contend that all ccw people lay awake at night pretending to be heros... thought so... you are stilted in your thinking, John

I haven't said any such thing. I have only taken the realistic view that someone with a gun who decides to play hero may be a hero, but that's not the only possible outcome.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[wardd]

we could start by taking chenys guns away

[John Smith]

how many blue on blue events have resulted in murder trials... go ahead, don't hold back John.

I have no idea what your point is. My point is that the "hero" may kill innocent people in his efforts to protect those same innocent people and, if he does, I expect he's got some liability.

You are among the close minded who seems to think someone in that theater who had his own weapon and decided to shoot the bad guy would instantly succeed in doing so and no more lives would be lost. I'm pointing out, reasonably, that this is only one of several possible outcomes. The others aren't so good.

[wardd]

make insurance a part of ccw

[Phillip Allen]

I have no idea what your point is. My point is that the "hero" may kill innocent people in his efforts to protect those same innocent people and, if he does, I expect he's got some liability.

You are among the close minded who seems to think someone in that theater who had his own weapon and decided to shoot the bad guy would instantly succeed in doing so and no more lives would be lost. I'm pointing out, reasonably, that this is only one of several possible outcomes. The others aren't so good.

you'll remember that Chicken-Little was paralyzed with what-ifs too

[wardd]

who here thinks they could afford cw insurance?

[Phillip Allen]

should cops and soldiers be required to carry individual insurance policies?

[wardd]

should cops and soldiers be required to carry individual insurance policies?

you should be required to carry silly insurance and by the way cops do carry personal insurance for job related incidents

military is covered by a set of laws, why there is even a law covering killing in combat, it's justifiable homicide


seems a whole lot you don't know

[BrianY]

It seems to me that the pro gun folks here as well as the NRA views any discussion of gun control as an all or nothing situation....that any movemement towardsfurther regualtion on guns automatically means that the government is going to ban the possesion of all guns, it's going to take away guns from current owners etc. Now there may be some folks on the fringe of the gun control movement that think this way, but I believe that they do not represent the majority. Our society regulates that sale , ownership and use of all sorts of things that are potentially harmful when used improperly or by teh wrong people and most folks see the wisdom in this, I think. Is there no room for reasonable restrictions on the sale and posession of guns and gun-related equipment? Why it is so difficult for gun enthusiasts to accept things like restrictions on clip size, unregistered gun sales, and other steps that do not prevent anyone who is legally qualified to own a gun from getting one?

[Phillip Allen]

It seems to me that the pro gun folks here as well as the NRA views any discussion of gun control as an all or nothing situation....that any movemement towardsfurther regualtion on guns automatically means that the government is going to ban the possesion of all guns, it's going to take away guns from current owners etc. Now there may be some folks on the fringe of the gun control movement that think this way, but I believe that they do not represent the majority. Our society regulates that sale , ownership and use of all sorts of things that are potentially harmful when used improperly or by teh wrong people and most folks see the wisdom in this, I think. Is there no room for reasonable restrictions on the sale and posession of guns and gun-related equipment? Why it is so difficult for gun enthusiasts to accept things like restrictions on clip size, unregistered gun sales, and other steps that do not prevent anyone who is legally qualified to own a gun from getting one?

you already got your 'reasonable' laws... in 1935 and again in 1968... 'we' compromised and that was supposed to be the end of it... 'you' have proved yourselves to be liars

[wardd]

you already got your 'reasonable' laws... in 1935 and again in 1968... 'we' compromised and that was supposed to be the end of it... 'you' have proved yourselves to be liars

and you have proved yourself foolish

[Phillip Allen]

and you have proved yourself foolish

yes, in 1935 and again in 1968... that's enough

[wardd]

when some can be legal right up until he opens up in a theater and you see no need for change, then yeas i see that as foolish

[BrianY]

And what specifically do you object to in the 1968 law? It seems to me that it places reasonble restrictions on who can own a firearm and regulates the commercial echange of firearms. It does nothing to restrict an average peson's ability to obtain a firearm.

Why shouldn't gun control laws evolve and change over time as society and the circumstances and technology change as all other laws do?

[Phillip Allen]

Hey, Brian... I said the same thing in your signature line but phrased differently and without attribution and was savaged by you left wing people as anti tax. you have given away your agenda and will not receive another chance. The paucity of honesty is exposed. you shouldn't have wasted the last one.

“Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children.”
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

[ccmanuals]

It is estimated that only 60% of gun sales go through the background check which leaves 40% of guns being sold to, well, who knows.

[Phillip Allen]

It is estimated that only 60% of gun sales go through the background check which leaves 40% of guns being sold to, well, who knows.

link?

[htom]

It is estimated that only 60% of gun sales go through the background check which leaves 40% of guns being sold to, well, who knows.

The problem with the quote is that no one knows how many private sales there are, so it's made up numbers. If BATFE is letting 40% of new firearms be sold illegally, that's proof that it's time for BATFE to go.

[wardd]

Hey, Brian... I said the same thing in your signature line but phrased differently and without attribution and was savaged by you left wing people as anti tax. you have given away your agenda and will not receive another chance. The paucity of honesty is exposed. you shouldn't have wasted the last one.

“Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children.”
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

you obviously don't understand what that means

[BrianY]

Hey, Brian... I said the same thing in your signature line but phrased differently and without attribution and was savaged by you left wing people as anti tax. you have given away your agenda and will not receive another chance. The paucity of honesty is exposed. you shouldn't have wasted the last one.

“Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children.”
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

First of all, I didn't "savage" you about anything so you have nothing to complain about in that reagrd as far as I go. (You said the same thing and were "savaged" for being "anti-tax" ?! That makes no sense at all because the quote has nothing to do with taxes...)

Second,I thought that you were intelligent enough to understand that the quote refers to government spedning on the military and NOT the private ownership of guns. Apprently you automatically assume that ANY mention of guns or other weapons is an automatic assault on your right to have a gun. THAT is the problem with you gun folks - you cannot have a reasonable conversation because you're so paranoid that anyone that does not think the way you do is about to steal your weapons.

As for my "agenda" - My "agenda" includes a reduction and rationalization of military spending. That has absoultely NOTHING to do with the private ownership of guns and what I think should or should not be done about them.

You've "given away your agenda" as someone who refuses to discuss the issue rationally and reasonably and who is, apparently, incapable of answering pretty simple questions. You'd rather complain about "my agenda" than to have a reasonable conversation. I have said nothing here to disrespect your position and I've asked reasonable question in an attempt to understand your POV. Nor have I ever tried to hide or misrepresent my views. I guess the fact that I don't agree completely with your views makes me way out of line and "dishonest" in your book.

You're acting like a child. Don;t you think it's time to grow up?

[Phillip Allen]

The problem with the quote is that no one knows how many private sales there are, so it's made up numbers. If BATFE is letting 40% of new firearms be sold illegally, that's proof that it's time for BATFE to go.

I'd still like to see his source