So, what is the answer to gun violence?

[hanleyclifford]

you can't convince them, that's why they are called whackos

You're wrong about that, wardd. I have known, and served with, some chillingly logical and calculating sociopaths. They base their actions on the perceived reactions of others.

[Iceboy]

" My advice to people who don't want to get shot at is to move away. The rest is predictable outcome."

Running away in fear doesn't solve anything. That is one reason we are in this mess. Folks see the neighborhood going bad so instead of talking to thier neighbors and solving the problems they move on and abandon thier homes to the problems.

[htom]

are you honestly, sincerely, serious ? do you want your society to be populated by trigger happy or trigger competent people..?...

In general, trigger competent people, please, not trigger happy but allowed to carry concealed firearms where they choose.

[2MeterTroll]

I agree with Know it All, give everyone a gun and let the fun begin. by the time it's over not only will the overpopulation problem be over but the gene pool will be cleansed. since you described me with the exception of location yes as a matter of fact.

are you honestly, sincerely, serious ? do you want your society to be populated by trigger happy or trigger competent people..?. its not even a post apocalyptic world scenario where the survivors are more able to fire a gun than , say rear a pig or grow a vegetable... it is demonstrably here right now, ...because if you seriously think that, you are equal to the redhead hyper intelligent retard responsible for aurora.

[wardd]

every major retailer on the net has a program that could be adapted to spot potential future wackos

[Phillip Allen]

guns make violence so much easier and safer for the perpetrator and so much more deadly for the victims, you do understand that don't you?

I do... but it still isn't 'gun' violence

[wardd]

You're wrong about that, wardd. I have known, and served with, some chillingly logical and calculating sociopaths. They base their actions on the perceived reactions of others.

sociopaths are more likely to be found in banks than standing all armed up in theaters or they commit their crimes out of sight of all but the victim

[wardd]

I do... but it still isn't 'gun' violence

let's try this again

guns make violence so much easier and safer for the perpetrator and so much more deadly for the victims, you do understand that don't you?

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

" My advice to people who don't want to get shot at is to move away. The rest is predictable outcome."

Running away in fear doesn't solve anything. That is one reason we are in this mess. Folks see the neighborhood going bad so instead of talking to thier neighbors and solving the problems they move on and abandon thier homes to the problems.

It isn't running away in fear. It is accepting the outcome of gun violence as a predictable one. No one else in the world is very confused about your problem: You have over 300 million guns in the population, including assault rifles, handguns and god knows what else. Why is anyone wondering why these massacres are taking place?....of course they going to happen, and they're going to keep happening, and unless there is a dramatic change in direction, this is going to keep happening. Simple.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Since Phillip seems to be confused:

Gun violence defined literally means the use of a firearm to threaten or inflict violence or harm. Gun violence may be broadly defined as a category of violence and crime committed with the use of a firearm; it may[1] or may not[2][3] include actions ruled as self-defense, actions for law enforcement, or the safe lawful use of firearms for sport, hunting, and target practice. Gun violence encompasses intentional crime characterized as homicide (although not all homicide is automatically a crime) and assault with a deadly weapon, as well as unintentional injury and death resulting from the misuse of firearms, sometimes by children and adolescents.[4][dead link] Gun violence statistics also may include self-inflicted gunshot wounds (both suicide, attempted suicide and suicide/homicide combinations sometimes seen within families).[5]

The phrase "gun crime" is consistently used by both gun-control and gun-rights policy advocates, with differing emphases: the former group advocates reducing gun violence by enacting and enforcing "sensible regulations" on guns, while the latter group advocates controlling criminals via increased prison terms or other methods.[6][7]

Levels of gun violence vary greatly across the world, with very high rates in Brazil, Venezuela, Mexico, South Africa, Colombia, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, and Jamaica, as well as high levels in Russia, The Phillipines, Thailand, and some other underdeveloped countries, Levels of gun violence are low in Singapore, Japan, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and many other countries.[8] The United States has the highest rate of gun related injuries (not deaths per capita) among developed countries, though they also have the highest rate of gun ownership and highest rate of officers.[9]

[Phillip Allen]

violence is violence, Peter

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Sure, whatever.

[wardd]

i'd rather be the victim of violence committed with a feather than a gun

[Phillip Allen]

the pen is mighter than the gun

[wardd]

the pen is mighter than the gun

are you and jamie collaborating?

[2MeterTroll]

Yes!
however i would draw the line at more cops. we need fewer cops and those need less power. if you arent going to reinstate the beat cop and kill the homeland in/security program nothing is going to change without lots more deaths. One of the largest problems in this country is the cops and no matter what they need to be controlled or the us and them will not ever go away.

These responses are interesting....and they prompt me to ask the following:

The focus of most of the responses in on social matters - the premise being if we solve social problems we will solve the violence problem. The problem with this approach is that there seems to be little support in the country to pay for programs that deal with these issues. Would you be willing to have your taxes increased if the money was going to be spent on programs to address poverty, mental health, more cops on the street, youth training and recreation programs, etc?

[wardd]

"These responses are interesting....and they prompt me to ask the following:

The focus of most of the responses in on social matters - the premise being if we solve social problems we will solve the violence problem. The problem with this approach is that there seems to be little support in the country to pay for programs that deal with these issues. Would you be willing to have your taxes increased if the money was going to be spent on programs to address poverty, mental health, more cops on the street, youth training and recreation programs, etc?"


ask after the election

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

i'd rather be the victim of violence committed with a feather than a gun

Don't be ridiculous. Violence is violence, whether you be tickled with a feather or have your head shot off.

[wardd]

Don't be ridiculous. Violence is violence, whether you be tickled with a feather or have your head shot off.

sorry

[BrianY]

violence is violence, Peter

While that statement is true, it is also completely useless from a practical policy making point of view. The same thing could be said about disease - disease is disease. Yet if you want to try to cure or eliminate disease, you have to focus your atttention and energy to working on one particular disease at a time.

Gun violence - and I understand your objection to the term but I think it's useful and understandable shorthand for "violent acts comitted by people who employ firearms in the commission of these acts" - is one type of violence like tuberculosis is one type of disease and the solution to each of these problems requires specific and targeted effort as well as non-specific general efforts. To claim that gun violence cannot be reduced until all violence is reduced is like saying that measles can't be cured untill all disease is cured.

It is, IMO, a defeatist and cowardly attitude that will never do anything but perpetuate existing problems.

[Phillip Allen]

Don't be ridiculous. Violence is violence, whether you be tickled with a feather or have your head shot off.

consider, Peter... Bird strikes are a significant threat to flight safety, and have caused a number of accidents with human casualties

[Boston]

In Africa they chop each other to bits with machetes, I'd rather be shot, have several times actually. At least its quick. The trouble isn't the tool. Its the person using it. The question I'd be curious to see answered is, in nations that have the strictest gun laws, whats the murder rate ?

[Phillip Allen]

While that statement is true, it is also completely useless from a practical policy making point of view. The same thing could be said about disease - disease is disease. Yet if you want to try to curen or eliminate disease, you have to focus your atttention and energy to working on one particular disease at a time.

Gun violence - and I understand your objection to the term but I think it's useful and understandable shorthand for "violent acts comitted by people who employ firearms in the commission of these acts" - is one type of violence like tuberculosis is one type of disease and the solution to each of these problems requires specific and targeted effort as well as non-specific general efforts. To claim that gun violence cannot be reduced until all violence is reduced is like saying that measles can't be cured untill all disease is cured.

It is, IMO, a defeatist and cowardly attitude that will never do anything but perpetuate existing problems.

certainly, from a POLICY making view, it is best to attach the specific focus of a policy to a negetive

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

In Africa they chop each other to bits with machetes, I'd rather be shot, have several times actually. At least its quick. The trouble isn't the tool. Its the person using it. The question I'd be curious to see answered is, in nations that have the strictest gun laws, whats the murder rate ?

google is your friend.

[Boston]

thats right it is

and low and behold that whole 'if we ban guns the gun violence will stop" argument goes right out the window.

Check out the numbers USA is waaaaaaay down the list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._homicide_rate

[ccmanuals]

consider, Peter... Bird strikes are a significant threat to flight safety, and have caused a number of accidents with human casualties

And yet a number of actions are always being taken to mitigate the possibility of bird strikes. What actions are taken to mitigate gun violence?

[Paul Girouard]

What actions are taken to mitigate gun violence?

How many gun laws does the USA have?

[htom]

Gun violence defined literally means the use of a firearm to threaten or inflict violence or harm. Gun violence may be broadly defined as a category of violence and crime committed with the use of a firearm; it may[1] or may not[2][3] include actions ruled as self-defense, actions for law enforcement, or the safe lawful use of firearms for sport, hunting, and target practice. Gun violence encompasses intentional crime characterized as homicide (although not all homicide is automatically a crime) and assault with a deadly weapon, as well as unintentional injury and death resulting from the misuse of firearms, sometimes by children and adolescents.[4][dead link] Gun violence statistics also may include self-inflicted gunshot wounds (both suicide, attempted suicide and suicide/homicide combinations sometimes seen within families).[5]

The phrase "gun crime" is consistently used by both gun-control and gun-rights policy advocates, with differing emphases: the former group advocates reducing gun violence by enacting and enforcing "sensible regulations" on guns, while the latter group advocates controlling criminals via increased prison terms or other methods.[6][7]

Levels of gun violence vary greatly across the world, with very high rates in Brazil, Venezuela, Mexico, South Africa, Colombia, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, and Jamaica, as well as high levels in Russia, The Phillipines, Thailand, and some other underdeveloped countries, Levels of gun violence are low in Singapore, Japan, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and many other countries.[8] The United States has the highest rate of gun related injuries (not deaths per capita) among developed countries, though they also have the highest rate of gun ownership and highest rate of officers.[9]

Such definitions are nonsensical. Safe target practice is gun violence even though there is no victim? Assault with a deadly weapon is gun violence even if a firearm is not used in the assault?

[Boston]

violence is violence and whats interesting is that in some of the countries that have banned guns, the homicide rates are wildly higher than in the USA

[leikec]

A few people died, quite a shame but to restrict gun ownership over it is quite silly. I would love to see every human being live a long and rewarding life but the fact is that people die everyday. Some die at birth, some make it until they are three or four before cancer takes them, some battle cancer and go through the incredible hardship of chemo only to be killed in a car accident.

How many are killed by one means verses another is a moot point.

People die, kids die....welcome to reality. Changing gun laws will do squat in the grand scheme of things.

-1000


Jeff C

[TomF]

Can you imagine how many millions of dollars that one Seal saved his country by doing Bin Laden on the spot?

And the CIC who ordered the action was a tax-and-spend Democrat too. Gives one pause, eh?

[Bob Adams]

We must be doing something right:

[David W Pratt]

A few years ago, I ran across the Brady grades for the states with respect to guns, and the state by state rates of gun violence. I regressed the latter on the former. If restrictive gun laws reduce violence one would expect a strong negative correlation, that is, high Brady grades would be associated with low rates of violence. No joy, in fact there was non-significant trend the other way, low Brady grades were associated with low rates of gun violence.

[skipper68]

In the early'70's I lived in AZ. EVERYONE carried side arms then.Never had much gun violence, that made every one equal. If you look at Sweden, everyone is trained in guns and are required to keep them, as their army. Some even have missles. If you take away gun rights, only the criminals will have them. I say to require everyone to carry-equal the field, so to speak. OTOH, many cant own them, from criminal records. They are the ones unlicenced. So there is the catch 22.

[Bob Adams]

A few years ago, I ran across the Brady grades for the states with respect to guns, and the state by state rates of gun violence. I regressed the latter on the former. If restrictive gun laws reduce violence one would expect a strong negative correlation, that is, high Brady grades would be associated with low rates of violence. No joy, in fact there was non-significant trend the other way, low Brady grades were associated with low rates of gun violence.

If you look at the graph I posted, you will note that since 1994 the overall rate of violent crime has been going down. To the chargrin of the anti gunners, this corresponds to the period in which more and more states were adopting "shall issue" concealed carry permits. So, not only did the "wild west blood bath" predicted not happen, violence went down. Imagine that.

[John Bell]

If you look at the graph I posted, you will note that since 1994 the overall rate of violent crime has been going down. To the chargrin of the anti gunners, this corresponds to the period in which more and more states were adopting "shall issue" concealed carry permits. So, not only did the "wild west blood bath" predicted not happen, violence went down. Imagine that.

While I don't doubt that is true, I'll need a lot more evidence to show causality. It may be that it's one factor, but there are a lot of paddles stirring that particular pot. I'm not sure how we pick out which one was the most effective.

[Paul Girouard]

And the CIC who ordered the action was a tax-and-spend Democrat too. Gives one pause, eh?

He didn't build that, he had lots of help! LOL.

[Bob Adams]

While I don't doubt that is true, I'll need a lot more evidence to show causality. It may be that it's one factor, but there are a lot of paddles stirring that particular pot. I'm not sure how we pick out which one was the most effective.

One thing is certain, more people carrying concealed did not create the mayhem predicted.

[John Bell]

One thing is certain, more people carrying concealed did not create the mayhem predicted.

No argument there, Bob. My mother in law, who is the one of the kindest, gentlest, politest persons I know has a CCP and a Taurus 9mm in her purse. (Why? I have no idea!) She's no mayhem maker, that's for sure.

[Phillip Allen]

One thing is certain, more people carrying concealed did not create the mayhem predicted.

The law of averages dictates that someone will some day. When it happens, the ‘anti’ crowd will leap on it as though it were typical and those who vote emotionally and not logically will be manipulated a little nearer the precipice.

[Boston]

whats interesting is that Guns would appear to have zero correlation in homicide rates

Many countries which have banned guns have significantly higher rates of homicide than the USA.


gun ownership per 100 people in Honduras is 6.2
gun ownership per 100 people in the USA is 88


Honduras has the highest homicide rate in the world.
El Salvador has the second highest homicide rate in the world, yet it has even less guns per citizen at 5.8

see guns-facts figures and the law web site.


Honduras has the highest homicide rate in the world, in 2011 it was 87 deaths per 100,000 people
the USA had 4.7 homicides per 100,000 people in the same year. Well below the world average of typically something in the 7.2 range. Thats a rate of homicides about 19 times higher then here in the USA, and in a country that has 14 times fewer guns per person.

Its not the guns, its the operators

[Bob Adams]

But we(the US) have the best media! Nothing bloody goes unpublished!

[wardd]

The law of averages dictates that someone will some day. When it happens, the ‘anti’ crowd will leap on it as though it were typical and those who vote emotionally and not logically will be manipulated a little nearer the precipice.

if we need voter id laws to prevent a hypothetical that would go for gun laws too

[wardd]

whats interesting is that Guns would appear to have zero correlation in homicide rates

Many countries which have banned guns have significantly higher rates of homicide than the USA.


gun ownership per 100 people in Honduras is 6.2
gun ownership per 100 people in the USA is 88


Honduras has the highest homicide rate in the world.
El Salvador has the second highest homicide rate in the world, yet it has even less guns per citizen at 5.8

see guns-facts figures and the law web site.


Honduras has the highest homicide rate in the world, in 2011 it was 87 deaths per 100,000 people
the USA had 4.7 homicides per 100,000 people in the same year. Well below the world average of typically something in the 7.2 range. Thats a rate of homicides about 19 times higher then here in the USA, and in a country that has 14 times fewer guns per person.

Its not the guns, its the operators

what other factors in honduras contribute to that rate and would it be even higher if guns were more prevalent?

[Boston]

Probably not. There are lots of factors, apparently the availability of guns, not being one of them, or at least not being very high on the list. In the African countries, the preferred method is to hack your victim to death with a machete, nice eh, bullets are expensive, and they have some of the highest rates of per capita gun ownership in the world. The point is that banning machete's in those countries, wouldn't do jack to prevent murder, they'd just start knifing each other.

we are surrounded by potential weapons all the time. Simply pointing fingers at the tool rather than the user isn't the answer.

[wardd]

Probably not. There are lots of factors, apparently the availability of guns, not being one of them, or at least not being very high on the list. In the African countries, the preferred method is to hack your victim to death with a machete, nice eh, bullets are expensive, and they have some of the highest rates of per capita gun ownership in the world. The point is that banning machete's in those countries, wouldn't do jack to prevent murder, they'd just start knifing each other.

we are surrounded by potential weapons all the time. Simply pointing fingers at the tool rather than the user isn't the answer.

in those african countries what are the chances that proper police work will apprehend the perpetrator?

you can't take one fact out of context and apply it to other facts

[TomF]

He didn't build that, he had lots of help! LOL.

True. He just ordered the trigger pulled, unlike his predecessor.

[John Smith]

A few people died, quite a shame but to restrict gun ownership over it is quite silly. I would love to see every human being live a long and rewarding life but the fact is that people die everyday. Some die at birth, some make it until they are three or four before cancer takes them, some battle cancer and go through the incredible hardship of chemo only to be killed in a car accident.

How many are killed by one means verses another is a moot point.

People die, kids die....welcome to reality. Changing gun laws will do squat in the grand scheme of things.

Tell that to the victims' families. Accidents happen and they kill people. Guns kill people by people pulling the trigger, and it is rarely by accident.

[TomF]

Am I to understand that if America were to ban all firearms, that you folks would start hacking eavh other with machetes instead?

Come to think of it, knives and swords were very common arms in the militias of your founders' day. Why is there so little outcry about blade length restrictions? Surely a 10" Bowie is less of a mass threat than your average Glock.

[John Smith]

You're wrong about that, wardd. I have known, and served with, some chillingly logical and calculating sociopaths. They base their actions on the perceived reactions of others.

A few are doing God's work.