Romilly

[KMacDonald]

What do you think it would cost to build Nigel Irens Romilly?
Don't forget the plans call for carbon fiber spars.

[skaraborgcraft]

Nigel gives details of wooden spars in the plans as far as im aware. Cant comment on build cost as your costs "over there" can be very different from Europe.

KHP is normally very good at given breakdown cost estimates if the mood takes him, but thats UK based prices.

No doubt you could start off with just getting materials as you need them,which is not as scary as dumping down the final build cost in one go. Lovely boat,great sailer. Cheers

[David Geiss]

I have a friend that built one in Maine.....I believe he has it over on the Baltic these days...PM me and I could put you in touch.
He is a very capable prof boatbuilder in ME but I think he would be open to discussing the plans, methods and the build.
Best, David

[skaraborgcraft]

I see little point of opening another thread with a poll of build costs. If you want to use cheap material,you could build it for less than your start price.....or spend more than your top figure depending on materials and if its built proffessionally, and by whom. There is NO correct answer. The question really is HOW MUCH can YOU afford??? Cheers

[zauberberg]

Such a nice boat.

[John Bell]

Carbon spars? If so, my guess is you are way low but I don't know. I'd ring up Phil Garland at Hall Spars and ask his opinion. Carbon would be my choice on this boat.

For a new aluminum double axle trailer, $3,000 is more like it.

My guess is you'll drop $1,500-$2,000 on rigging and hardware. I always get sticker shock when I start pricing out cordage. You'll have a couple hundred in your main halyard alone.

Are you going to cut and mill your own planking or buy Speed-Strip or some other pre-milled bead-and-cove stock? If you don't already have the tools to do this yourself, you'll to figure that into your costs.

A lot of the cost depends on how you plan to finish the boat. Plywood decks or teak? Plywood or mahoghany cabin sides? Two-part paint or regular old enamel? Outboard or inboard auxilary? The closer you are to "yacht" than you are to "workboat" is going to really drive your costs.

My guess is $25-35K, depending on how finely finished you wind up and how exotic are the materials used.

[KMacDonald]

John, the boat would ony require a single axle trailer. I would mill WRC myself and I have all the tools necessary to build the boat. I think 4K will get at least the main spars. I would think 1.5-2K for rigging and hardware is on the low side, maybe 2.5K. It will be the outboard version.

[KMacDonald]

Such a nice boat.

Beautiful!!!!!!! How much did you extend the cabin?

[John Bell]

I agree that only one axle for the trailer is required, but for towing anything over 3,000 lbs I sure like having two. Especially for something like that boat that I'd have my heart's blood in. Romilly's displacement is stated at 2,640lbs., my guess is the trailer weight is around 2,200 lbs, plus a 1,000 lbs give or take for the trailer itself?

Thinking about it, I'd probably get a carbon main mast and main yard and build the rest of the spars out of wood to get the most benefit for the least cost. I still have no idea how much they'd cost, though.

[KMacDonald]

I agree that only one axle for the trailer is required, but for towing anything over 3,000 lbs I sure like having two. Especially for something like that boat that I'd have my heart's blood in. Romilly's displacement is stated at 2,640lbs., my guess is the trailer weight is around 2,200 lbs, plus a 1,000 lbs give or take for the trailer itself?

Thinking about it, I'd probably get a carbon main mast and main yard and build the rest of the spars out of wood to get the most benefit for the least cost. I still have no idea how much they'd cost, though.

I got a quote for a carbon mast for my Marshcat in the event the sitka spruce one
was too heavy to step easily. Fortunately the sitka spruce mast did not prove to be too difficult to step and the $1800 carbon mast was not necessary.

[zauberberg]

The cabin was extended about 40cm, if I remember correctly.

Carbon spars for sure fit nicely to the boat. They are worth about 0,5 Beaufort compared the the wooden spars. The main effect of course could be gained by a only a carbon main mast and main yard. The cost of a complete carbon set is high and close to 10k.

[KMacDonald]

The cabin was extended about 40cm, if I remember correctly.

Carbon spars for sure fit nicely to the boat. They are worth about 0,5 Beaufort compared the the wooden spars. The main effect of course could be gained by a only a carbon main mast and main yard. The cost of a complete carbon set is high and close to 10k.

WOW, $10,000. That would certainly rule out a complete set and probably even the main spars.

[skaraborgcraft]

i know there is a stabilty guide within the plans for building all the spars in timber instead of carbon. I have absolutely no idea how much it effects stability, BUT you can guarentee she will still be a safe boat, or the timber spar option would never have been offered. Maybe there is also additional ballast as compensation? I looked at Romily myself, but single handed mast stepping was a key issue,as well as trailer weight. Thing of beauty though. Cheers

[KMacDonald]

Areys Pond Catboat Lynx has a carbon mast for $925 extra so I dont think it will be as expensive as some might think. That is also a free standing rig with a 200sft sail. The carbon gaff is $450 extra.

[keyhavenpotterer]

To know what it'll cost

1. Whats the weight of the lead ballast?
2. Whats the weight of the boat and ballast (thats not the designed displacement with stores and people aboard)?
3. Whats the max diameter and length of the mast, yard and mizzem mast?
4. How many bulkheads spanning the boats beam stay in the boat?
5. Do you have an outboard already?
6. Can we assume you don't want to make sails or the trailer? A sail maker local to you will give you a quote looking at the sail plan and the trailer needs to be single axle braked model with bunks or rollers to take the boats weight. They will post that on the trailer websites.
7. Do you want a finished 'gold plater' like the one above at the end, or do you just want the boat for what it can do to fit your sailing area and are happy with a good boat but less 'shiny' etc.
8. Do you have a local forest where they cut down trees, mill and stack it? If you do, what softwood and hardwood trees grow there? What trees do you see when you drive around mostly?
9. Google woodmills local(ish) to you. Ask them what is the charge per cubic foot for timber they sell off the stack?
10. Google a spar grade sitka spruce supplier ideally or douglas fir supplier, and ask the charge per cubic foot also.
11. Google lead suppliers and ask their price per kg for lead ingots or balls.
12. Are you a 'racer' or a 'cruiser' when you go out?
13. Is there an engine in your garage already?

Stick up your answers to each question and you'll be able to estimate costs with people here fairly accurately.


Ed

[Michael Wick]

Build your own carbon spars with socks from Soller Enterprises ? It's fun and not expensive at all.

[Paul G.]

The hull will cost relatively little, glue, timber, fasteners etc. Fittings, sails, outboards, stoves, squabs, spars and suprisingly paint and its sundries add up pretty fast. The question I always ask is do you want to build or sail? It sounds like building is part of the love, so just start and as the years (2 perhaps) go by you can take advantage of bargains, or incorporate the costs slowly. You will get the hull built for very little and all the satisfaction and inspiration that provides, the rest will come as you can afford it. No boat of any quality this size will cost much less.

[KMacDonald]

1. Whats the weight of the lead ballast? 1150lbs
2. Whats the weight of the boat and ballast (thats not the designed displacement with stores and people aboard)?2400lbs
3. Whats the max diameter and length of the mast, yard and mizzem mast? 25ft mast
4. How many bulkheads spanning the boats beam stay in the boat?
5. Do you have an outboard already? no, 2K
6. Can we assume you don't want to make sails or the trailer? A sail maker local to you will give you a quote looking at the sail plan and the trailer needs to be single axle braked model with bunks or rollers to take the boats weight. They will post that on the trailer websites. no brakes on trailer required
7. Do you want a finished 'gold plater' like the one above at the end, or do you just want the boat for what it can do to fit your sailing area and are happy with a good boat but less 'shiny' etc. looking for a 8.5 or 9
8. Do you have a local forest where they cut down trees, mill and stack it? If you do, what softwood and hardwood trees grow there? What trees do you see when you drive around mostly? none
9. Google woodmills local(ish) to you. Ask them what is the charge per cubic foot for timber they sell off the stack?
10. Google a spar grade sitka spruce supplier ideally or douglas fir supplier, and ask the charge per cubic foot also. $10bf
11. Google lead suppliers and ask their price per kg for lead ingots or balls. $1/lb
12. Are you a 'racer' or a 'cruiser' when you go out? cruiser that likes to win.
13. Is there an engine in your garage already? not for Romilly

[Paul G.]

I would say that you need about 20k on the cheap. Zauberberg on this forum built one, PM him perhaps?

[KMacDonald]

The cabin was extended about 40cm, if I remember correctly.

Carbon spars for sure fit nicely to the boat. They are worth about 0,5 Beaufort compared the the wooden spars. The main effect of course could be gained by a only a carbon main mast and main yard. The cost of a complete carbon set is high and close to 10k.

If the cabin were extended back to F5 would there still be plenty of cockpit room? How has the non-self draining cockpit worked out? Does the boat point OK? How do you feel about the EU RCD design category D (inshore) rating?

[keyhavenpotterer]

Does it say 18mm on the drawing for the hull thickness under the glass? And 38mm for the keelson? How wide is the mast at the bottom? Just to work out the cubic foot of material. My screens a bit small.

Ed

[skaraborgcraft]

""How do you feel about the EU RCD design category D (inshore) rating? ""

The RCD is a "guideline" only. It is supposed to guide the uneducated into choosing a specific boat for their needs. However, at least one death has been recorded in an RCD "certified" yacht after it could not be righted after being capsized and swamped. This is exactly what the RCD was suppose to avoid. The tupperware boat in question was withdrawn from the market shortly after,but as far as im aware, no criminal (manslaughter) charges were bought against the company for false compliance. That boat is back on the market in modified form.

The RCD was great for large manufacturers,who then build to an absolute minimum in order to comply with regulations (mostly), but it also killed off a lot of small yards and individuals who could not swallow the cost of testing.

Beware that if you take your boat beyond the distance and sea conditions descibed in the directive, and then have a mis-hap, your insurers will more than likely decline any claims.

I see no reason why you could not cross to France or Scilly Isles and cover those kind of distances in settled weather, i would say the boat was well upto it, even if on paper this would be outside of its "designated performance envelope".

[zauberberg]

"If the cabin were extended back to F5 would there still be plenty of cockpit room?"

We feel the cockpit with our slightly elongated cabin still is very generous, even when sailing with 2 adults and 2 children. This was one of the main reasons why I decided for the boat and still is one of the boat's best points, especially as we only sail in warm weather where virtually all the life take place outside. Cabin elongation up to F5 would take 30 more cm off the cockpit: No option for me, what should I do with a longer cuddy?

"How has the non-self draining cockpit worked out? How do you feel about the EU RCD design category D (inshore) rating?"

I think one clearly has to understand that Romilly is an open bilged boat: This is not an ocean going vessel, not the right boat for situations where one must expect green water coming over into the cockpit. My strategy therefore clearly is to avoid such a situation. This said, the boat gives me the feeling of a very safe, very stable and "big" vessel: With her ballast of 525kg, the deep and heavy centerboard and her reserve buoyancy above the slim waterline she stiffs up when heeling and stands up very well to her sail area. She sails very dry, even in a chop, and if you tie in two reefs she is a wonderful stable and safe boat also in a breeze - as long as there aren't big, breaking waves I suppose. As far as I understand STIX, the design category D for Romilly is mainly caused by the open cockpit with a downflooding angle of about 55 degrees: If you have this feature in your boat there is little to nothing you can do to avoid a D. By the way: The required STIX for D is 5, STIX of Romilly is about 10 or 11, category C would need 14.

"Does it say 18mm on the drawing for the hull thickness under the glass?"
Yes, 18mm under the glass is the spec in the plans.

"And 38mm for the keelson?"
Yes

"How wide is the mast at the bottom?"
Biggest diameter of main mast 136mm.

[keyhavenpotterer]

Comes to about $17k plus trailer by my recconning. Call it $20k.

Lead $1150, Wood for hull (30% wastage) $2640, Adhesive and fillers etc $1000, Wood structural $ 1240, 15 sheets occume plywood $1500, Engine $3000, Mast hollow $660, other spars $800, Sails $2400, fittings $1000, paint $750, plans $500.

Wood can be half the price from a mill rather than a 'store', plywood gets cheaper in bulk, engine is obviously a variable depending on new or not, paint finish is cheaper with single pack, there are other adhesives for strip building other than epoxy that can be easier to use and cheaper. Blocks can be made nearly free or you can buy Harken classic off the shelf etc. With a trailer and electronics... etc looks like 20k might be expected, but a resorceful builder might easily do it half that. Unavoidable costs typically are the lead, sails and trailer, savings there make a big difference.

Ed

[David Geiss]

You could speak with Tony DeLima, Forte Sars, near Mystic CT.
He performed a tricky repair for me, timely and reasonably.
Pleasure to deal with and he has the machinery and expertise to come up with exactly what you specify.
NFI of course.

Best, David

[KMacDonald]

The plans arrived today.

[davebrown]

That high aspect lug is beautiful.

[Andy Mcconkey]

Romilly would be a really nice boat for tooling around in the Keys.

[KMacDonald]

Romilly would be a really nice boat for tooling around in the Keys.

Yep, there and the Bahamas.

[Andy Mcconkey]

When will you start building? Long or short cabin? Glued lap or strip?
I've always thought that Romilly and Roxanne were/are two of the most beautiful and novel small boats around. So hurry up.

[KMacDonald]

It will be strip planked. Outboard version with wood spars. I am going to reduce the sail area by about 10% to compensate for the weight of the wood spars. It had a very generous sail plan so it shouldn't hurt performance too much. I will build all the parts I can before starting the hull, ie rudder, centerboard and trunk, spars, etc. That keeps the garage open for those tasks.
I will add 18 to 24 inches to the cabin.

[James McMullen]

How many sets of oarlocks, dammit?!?

Ha ha, just kidding! (Though you should at least put a sculling lock at the port corner of the transom for emergencies.)


Kevin, one thing we can agree on is that Romilly is a very beautiful and worthy boat of her type.

If I were to build one, I'd be awfully tempted to see what she looks like lined off for lapstrake, using the scantlings that Oughtred specs for his similarly sized Grey Seal. I find strip-planking to be awfully tedious in terms of longboard sanding and regretfully fiberglass/epoxy intensive, I have to say.

[KMacDonald]

How many sets of oarlocks, dammit?!?

Ha ha, just kidding! (Though you should at least put a sculling lock at the port corner of the transom for emergencies.)


Kevin, one thing we can agree on is that Romilly is a very beautiful and worthy boat of her type.

If I were to build one, I'd be awfully tempted to see what she looks like lined off for lapstrake, using the scantlings that Oughtred specs for his similarly sized Grey Seal. I find strip-planking to be awfully tedious in terms of longboard sanding and regretfully fiberglass/epoxy intensive, I have to say.

A Romilly was already been made in lapstrake. He even rows his!!!!!!!!!
http://www.roxane-romilly.co.uk/Romi...ke-gaff-rigged
No more excuses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[James McMullen]

Ah, very interesting, Kevin. I'd use 12mm instead of 9mm for sure though. And paint the hull a lighter color so it didn't hide the laps. Good looking boat!

[Michael Wick]

I am excited. I could almost say I am tempted to build one myself. Mike

[zauberberg]

Reducing sail area? No, think it over again as sailing the boat in a light breeze is such a delight. There is one Romilly with 10% larger sail area but to my knowledge no one with reduced area. Consult Ed Burnett and better reef earlier (IMHO).

[Clinton B Chase]

Ah, very interesting, Kevin. I'd use 12mm instead of 9mm for sure though. And paint the hull a lighter color so it didn't hide the laps. Good looking boat!

For this boat, I would probably try to source the 10mm Okoume that is made by Brynzeel. The Vivier Stir Ven, a 22-footer, is 9mm over bulkheads.

[James McMullen]

Are you sure, Clint? Stir Ven only calls for 400 lbs of ballast, Romilly has nearly three times that at 1140 lbs, plus a heavy, heavy CB. I think the 12mm scantling sounds more appropriate for Romilly. Plus laminated frames and floors, of course.

[KMacDonald]

I agree with James. The plans call for 18mm WRC for strip planking so 12mm ply sounds right to me also.

[keyhavenpotterer]

West Country boats were smooth carvel planked after french influence for the past few centuries. Having a lapstrake west country boat would stand out and not retain that spirit of tradition. Same as building a carvel faering in Norway. Each to his own, but some things aren't right. Also Nigel Irens is a master of water flow. To interupt things with chines, laps and wide flat panels would be wrong also, kinda like telling Enzo Ferrari how it could look better. Durable quarter sawn old growth tight grained Alaskan Yellow Cedar comes in 20ft lengths (£50/ ft3) and is a quarter the price of only moderately durable 8ft ply (£200/ ft3). It would also have lower resale value as a plywood example would be atypical, and there is a fair amount of money to invest in it at this size.

[James McMullen]

Who said anything about wide, flat panels, anyways? I'm talking full-on lapstrake, baby, with planks no wider than 6-7" except for maybe garboards and broads. If I build a boat for me, I'm gonna build it in a method I enjoy doing. There's no rational reason to build a new boat in this buyer's market anyways, unless you like the building process and are willing to pay for something custom and unique. Let's make no bones about it, this is a money-spending activity, not a money-making one. You're not going to get your monetary investment back out of it no matter what. You're going to profit mostly just on the satisfaction of having done something cool.

Ed (or is it Brian this time?), I definitely understand wanting to do something for a particular aesthetic appearance, especially a traditionally inspired one. But around here, a Romilly "West Country Boat" is going to stand out amidst the sea of white fiberglass sloops with blue sail covers no matter what. Nobody knows what "a real one" is supposed to look like around here anyways. These luggers are as uncommon as hen's teeth in the PNW despite my dedicated efforts to evangelize The Blessed Lug to the masses. And considering that we are talking about a carbon-fiber sparred modern interpretation instead of an actual historic replica anyways, I really, really don't think I would let that stop me. Maybe if I lived in Brest or something. . .

[KMacDonald]

OK, it will be the sail plan as drawn.

[Michael Wick]

As long as you are planning ROMILLY, you should look at the WoodenBoat article in #231 about Paul Gartside's twenty foot Daysailer/Campcruiser. He has lots of good ideas and a singleberth layout for the cabin that makes good sense.