When Powerboats made sense

[TR]

Roughly 1957 (I'm guessing).....Edwin Monk design and I don't know the builder. I think she's called Patrica V....around 50'? Not showy or silly, but stylish and practical. The foredeck would be a bit scary, high and open. But her side decks are really nice, the aft cockpit and open bridge are immensely practical. And the big deckhouse is a nice place to live (not so nice at the dock).

[Nicholas Scheuer]

I like her!

[skaraborgcraft]

There are some boats that just cant be improved on when it comes to a certain style. How many modern designers take inspiration from some of these old classics? Its a classic case of "timeless" design, it was as right then, as it is today. There will always be people who want the latest and greatest,but those kind of boats are generally very old looking much faster. Thats a nice boat, Tad. Cheers

[Nicholas Scheuer]

Some years ago, when we cruising in the Shearwater Yawl instead of our Albin-25, I saw a Great looking Motor Cruiser of about 28-30-ft anchored in the bay at Penninsula State Park in Door Countyu, WI which shared a design fature with the Monk appearing here, that being a fairly low house without a flying bridge (I see one on the Monk, but given the vessel's size, it is unobstrusive). Finding it later in the marina at Fish Creek I saw it was a Roper. It remains forever in memory as one of the nicest examples of a family motor cruiser I've ever seen. Whe we saw her anchored, she seemed to have a company of about eight aboard, half of them children.

Like the Monk, she had a spotlight mounted forward on her cabin top, which is a nice accent detail when there is no house rising above it.

It was a growing appreciation for a few boats like that which ultimately finds us in a Diesel Motor Cruiser instead of the yawl, TRUE NORTH.

[John Bell]

That's a lovely boat. I think I'd like a bit more deck space in our warmer climes here in the southern US, but overall, that's a very sensible looking design.

My favorite modern motoryacht is the Fleming 55, to me it checks all the boxes about stylish while not being showy or silly. And think the layout is pretty practical as well. I'll admit the dubious practicality of having 1000 hp of diesels to feed, but you don't have to use all those ponies do you? My guess is it's probably more than twice the boat of that Monk with a full-load displacement approaching 80,000 lbs making the Monk a much more sensible boat to own.

Edited to add: But I'm thinking more these days about what constitutes a sensible powerboat for my budget in these days of $4.50 marina gas and $2,500 annual slip fees. We sold our powerboat earlier this year so we are free of those expenses. But we sure miss having the boat, too. My next boat won't have a 100+ HP engine, I'm thinking 30 HP sounds good. So what's a smaller powerboat that makes sense?

I recall your Yellow Cedar and thought it made a lot of sense, but that's still way too big. I'm thinking 22' instead 38'.

[skaraborgcraft]

Smaller stylish boat? How about one of these?

I believe in the US it was marketed as a "Baltic Seachaser" , built by Storebro in Sweden.

[skaraborgcraft]

I never understood the overpowring of some of these modern trawler yachts. I think the old trawler style of the Malahide and Romsdal still has a special charm today. A 70 ton Romsdal was fitted with a single 128hp 6 pot Volvo with adjustable pitch propellor. I guess people who can afford a Flemming dont mind paying the extra for 8 times as much power, to go twice as fast (9knots vs 18), but even as John says, you dont have to use all that power, but you will have to foot the bill for it anyway. In the UK,old trawlers fitted with 6 pot Gardners are sought after for conversion. If its not "work boat trawler" style, the the raised deck design is my favourite.

More yachty,would be a John Baines TSDY,excellent for coastel cruising.



Fred Parker drew some nice boats too:

[keyhavenpotterer]

How about this Bristol 27, by Star Yachts and designed by Andrew Wolstenholme. You can order one right now. http://www.staryachts.co.uk/bristol27.aspx

[skaraborgcraft]

Rampart were also efficient design,i think by John Silver. If you want a modern version of this, check out Tads home page; http://passagemakerlite.com/ . I hope Tad does not mind the comparison to good,sensible, efficient and cost effective types.

[Nicholas Scheuer]

John Bell, we found a 1976 Albin-25 with her original 35-hp Volvo-Penta MD17C 3-cyl Diesel. She replaces the 28-ft Shearwater Yawl, TRUE NORTH which was trailered all around the USA over a period of 18 years.

Along with the Albin we also found a very active group of owners

[TR]

I agree that 50' is way too big to consider building new for the average bloke these days. It is rather stunning to understand that a custom 50' (almost all boats were custom)was attainable for executive types in the 1950's......I guess it's something close to the million dollar Searay of today.

The Albin 25 is a brilliant piece of work, a bit bloby in the house styling, but that was required to keep cost down. The old volvo can be replaced with nice little Kubota and you're set. They even have an auxiliary sailing option, and the owner's manual is a textbook example of what should be included.

I dearly love the English boats, but they are awfully chopped up (both inside and out) and often have too many cranky British engines...

It's not height in itself that's a problem (eyesore), it's proportions. Modern designers can only get the proportions right in huge (200'+) designs. Here's another nice boat designed by Jim Krogan and built in Hong Kong (Cheoy Lee) in 1968. She has a flying bridge but note the deckhouse is built around the engine box rather than on top of it. They knew something about seaworthiness though I know someone will comment about the windows. Power is a single Cat D334 of 360HP giving a max speed of 20 knots.

[skaraborgcraft]

It has got BIG windows.....but i note the flare forward would shed most if not the biggest greeny away from the structure.
I wont bite about "cranky British engines". Weight distribution appeared to play more a part in these older designs, i think Volvo Penta and the "steering leg" have an awfull lot to answer for, boat shapes changed really fast to stern drives not long after. Suits some boats, but not all.

I wouldnt want a boat with more than 25hp, but it would be lean by todays standards,with bugger all accomodation, but it would look better than a lot of other boats,and be far..far more efficient under actual cruising conditions.

[dbstra]

Roughly 1957 (I'm guessing).....Edwin Monk design and I don't know the builder. I think she's called Patrica V....around 50'? Not showy or silly, but stylish and practical. The foredeck would be a bit scary, high and open. But her side decks are really nice, the aft cockpit and open bridge are immensely practical. And the big deckhouse is a nice place to live (not so nice at the dock).

http://www.edmonkwoodenboatclub.org/HTML/AuroraBoat.htm

[Nicholas Scheuer]

I'd be happy with 25 hp, too, but only working in an appropriate hull. The Albin-25 seems to be a clever blend of hull capacity (four full-size beths in 2 cabins, plus an enclosed head and decent galley, along wth a large cockpit and elevated helm) and efficient shape within an OAL of 25ft. I liked the shape of my 29-ft Shearwater Yawl MUCH better (a long and slender design by Phil Bolger who was noted for motor vessels, easily capable of almost matching the Albin's speed with only 10hp), however, there aren't many affordable examples of such hulls on the used Motor Cruiser market. My idea of converting my Shearwater Auxiliary Yawl to a Shearwater Motor Sailer featuring standing headroom and an enclosed potty was received here with underwhelming enthusiasm. Hence the move to the Albin. I'm rapidly building respect for the work of her Designer, Per Brohall (my computer doesn't have oomlots for the "o").

[skaraborgcraft]

The Albin was and is still a very popular boat in Sweden,there was at least 3 paid a visit to the local harbour last week. The performance in a seaway is actually much better than i would have imagined. Form follows function.....not the best looking of boats, but a great compromise on a short length. I have been tempted when i see one for sale thats been neglected... lots to choose from here (in Sweden). Per designed some great boats. Cheers

[skaraborgcraft]

Just looked at the thread you started, thats a very interesting looking hull! Certainly looks easily driven. How was it when loaded down? As an Ex Bukh 10 owner,i would have another anyday, great little banger.

[Nicholas Scheuer]

Hey, skaraborgcraft! I sold a Bukh-10 a year ago to the same fellow who bought my Shearwater. No, neither of us intended to install it in the Shearwater; it was (is) intended for another boat. I did get mine running once and it seemed OK. I had purchased the Bukh 2 yrs earlier from a fellow in Massachusetts who had removed it from a Contessa-26 Sloop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2W2b42Go-w

When we were in Norway visiting my wive's cousin we spent time on the Oslo Fiord in their 23ft Diesel Cruiser which is very similar to an Albin-25. I lusted after the double-ended wooden examples.,and suffered pangs when seeing the occasional derelict.

[The Bigfella]

The OP boat is similar in concept to my boat... and looks a lot shorter. I'd say maybe 42'. Mine's been referred to as a sundeck cruiser. The dinghy just doesn't belong there where the people go.

Mine's a 1937 AM Deering (US) design, built by Holmes Bros. in Oz. Featured in, IIRC, July '37 Rudder mag. She originally had Greys but was refitted with very early 4-53 GMs... engine numbers in the 4,000s. Was 112hp each, but when I rebuilt them, I upped the spec to 2 x 140hp.

[skaraborgcraft]

Upping from 112hp to 140hp? Are you trying to compensate again there BIGfella?


Are you talking petrol(gas) engines or diesel? Cheers

[The Bigfella]

Upping from 112hp to 140hp? Are you trying to compensate again there BIGfella?


Are you talking petrol(gas) engines or diesel? Cheers

Mate... overcompensate is my middle name. The guys I did the engine work with wouldn't have it any other way... or, I don't think the old injectors were available. All it entailed was new injectors and 21:1 pistons instead of 19:1.

[skaraborgcraft]

Sounds right on! Run any different with the higher comp pistons, more vibes,blow any gaskets?

[TR]

According to the link provided by dbstra (thanks) Patrica V was built in 1947 and is 56', she is a big girl, power is twin 6-71's. I think Monk was well ahead of others to have drawn this in 47, and I guess they didn't change much (styling/arrangement) over the next 10-15 years.

I think all the Chris-Craft boats below make sense, though the side-decks on the 30' are starting to get scary. I witnessed a recent glass SeaRay type trying to leave the marina the other day and there was no place to actually stand on the deck? The only access was to board via the swim step and get into the cockpit. It was blowing and the bow line guy had to climb aboard under the foredeck rail but then he was stuck on top of a slippery fiberglass mountain. At least this CC 30 has toerails and handrails......

This is from 1954.....

[skaraborgcraft]

Thats a very nice 18 footer! See very few CC in europe,and those are normally gold platers for a stack of dosh! Good affordable product for the money back then.....unlike Riva.

[TR]

Sea Nymph, 1952, Designed and built by Knud Reimers of Stockholm. 51' by 12' with a single 6-71 cruising speed was 16 knots and top speed 20!

[skaraborgcraft]

Reimers drew some sweet boats.....just dont get me started on Petterssons!

[dbstra]

Sea Nymph, 1952, Designed and built by Knud Reimers of Stockholm. 51' by 12' with a single 6-71 cruising speed was 16 knots and top speed 20!

Very similar topside shape to a 1946 Huckins 48' X 14' cruises 18 knots with twin 6-71.

[Dave Hadfield]

A feature of these wooden cruisers that's better than the modern ones, is that they have flat surfaces you can walk or lie down on. The modern plastic ones don't. On them, everything is curved.

Some of that's for looks, but it's also because fiberrglass is weak if it's cast in a flat sheet. It's strong when it's a compound curve. Hence this...



I've grown gourds with better lines....

Dave

[Nicholas Scheuer]

Another worthwhile feature of the older designs is their fairly upright, or vertical stems which effectively lengthen their waterline. Most Contemporary designs have nothing but space under their bows, contributing to way they wallow when hey're moving slowly in a chop; that and their deep-V sterns with insufficient immersed bilge. Try telling that to their owners and they'll think you nuts.

Weston Farmer had a nice phrase for upright stems (one among many memorable phrases) in describing his Coyote design, "(- - her ) vertical stem gives her legs to stand on in a seawaY." Amen!

[Nicholas Scheuer]

Those smallish rectangular windows in the Huckins look very "old-fashioned", but notice their midpoint sash frames, indicating they probably ALL slide open for ventillation. I love Huckins.

[Dave Lesser]

Took this photo in Bucks Harbor, Maine, a few years ago. Don't know the design or builder, though.

[ILikeRust]

Took this photo in Bucks Harbor, Maine, a few years ago. Don't know the design or builder, though.

D. N. Hylan. It's called "Posthaste IV":

http://www.dhylanboats.com/posthaste.html

[Nicholas Scheuer]

I wish the link went on to tell how POSTHASTE IV is powered.

[TR]

I'll be critical for a sec and say, that for me; while I appreciate the stark minimalism, the Huckins looks a lot like the box the boat comes in.........

Here's a 1949 commuter sea skiff designed and built by Hubert Johnston of Bay Head, New Jersey. She's 33' by 9.5' with twin 160 HP Chrysler's.....

[Thad]

Good boats here. Re your initial subject, Tad, when I started driving c. 1959-60 gas was sometimes $.12/gal. and diesel was less. Wages were less too of course, but not 30-50 times.

[TR]

Yes Thad, the money issue is a whole other discussion. I know it's partly looking back through time with rose coloured glasses but many things were more affordable. Mainly I think households had fewer things, (I know ours did) and much less debt. Boats were purchased with cash on hand, as were cars and everything else except the house.......

[skaraborgcraft]

Thats a nice commuter skiff....but that is an awfull amount of glass! RE, gas prices, the single engined Storebro boats like the Bergo and Baltic Seachaser that were sold in Europe with single engines, all were fitted with twin engine installations on export to the US. You fellas have had cheap gas for most of your lives,and it shows in the boats and cars that are produced for your own market. Im just wondering when it will be that people look back and actaully realise how excessive the consumption was,and dare i say still is. As Tad says,its a whole other issue. I did run a 215cu in V8 for a while,but could only run it once a week....it would have been absolute heaven to have had a 460cu in, let alone a pair! No mistake,some incredible boats came out due to such cheap fuel.All part of history.

[P-man]

this a small powerboat that looks right to me. nice design Tad. if i end up retiring to the PNW, i just may have to commission one (perhaps stretched to 20'?).

[ILikeRust]

In fact, U.S. gasoline prices actually are about the same as they've always been, when you account for the value of the dollar itself...

[Thad]

The other sense of "sense" seems to have much to do with sense of proportion, sense of history, sense of line, and wood, more than cents and the bottom line. As you say, even the production boats were in most ways custom built, others entirely so. With the baby boom and GRP the idea of mass market production took off, and balance between cost of production and marketability ruled over seakeeping and beauty. Maybe. Something like that.

[C. Ross]

The 1957 40 foot Sea Skiff always impressed me.

That is a very stylish boat. I don't think I've ever seen one.

[skaraborgcraft]

RE; 40ft hardtop skiff......upto 1100HP speeds upto 30mph (ONLY?). When did that ever make sense? Interesting lines, not sure about that forward cabin trunk port though.

[Nicholas Scheuer]

Never did, skaraborgcraft. Old wooden Chris Crafts are a dime-a-dozen on the "save this boat" lists, and they all begin to look alike after awhile (many resembling the boat in post#33). Except for this example; never saw one like it. Now I regard the Lobster-style boat show in post #30 as nothing less than exquisite.

[nedL]

TR - she is a favorite of mine too.

[erster]

Power boats still makes sense. The myth that they require huge amounts of fuel at any cost is just not true. At 15 mph., this condo of sorts burns 1.2 gph and can go anywhere you wish on a trailer without breaking the bank either with a mack truck 18 wheeler to tow it. Its liteweight enough that your trailer does not need any form of brakes either unless you wish them for a measure of safety on the long hauls. Less maintainance and expense too not withstanding the initial cost for a trailer... Going foward is like a walk in the park. YMMV of course for what it takes to make you content.

[skaraborgcraft]

True Erster, some new boats are designed with a mediocre sense of efficiency from the get go. There just is no reason these days to have a gas guzzling money pit that you cant afford to run,so never use. Some of the old skinny Pettersson boats would do 12knots on 8hp, but they dont have room for all the "toys" that a lot of people want to take with them, to each their own when it comes to paying for the price of comfort me thinks.

[TR]

erster.........The sense I was referring to in the title is design sense. The design of your cabin skiff makes perfect sense to me. But almost every power boat currently in production makes little sense, they are overweight, too high, too wide, too short, overpowered, and overpriced. Looking back 50 years I find most powerboat design (at the time) was pretty sensible........Today we have salesmen telling people they must have a short and fat boat so that it's "fast", which is rubbish. Most current design is based on the way boats are stored (in expensive marina berths) rather than on how they are used (they aren't used because they're too expensive to run).

[skaraborgcraft]

i guess i should be gratefull that most marinas in Sweden charge by LxB, so it doesnt matter if you are skinny and long or short and fat,square area is how some charge.I know some charge by the largest craft that particular mooring/slip/berth will accomodate ,even if you are much smaller......but i think thats mostly a Stockholm thing. Local community marinas are pretty cheap, private marinas a different matter.....but thats just buisness.

[Kaa]

Some examples of what runs around the Stockholm archipelago nowadays :-)

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...23#post3472723

Kaa

[TR]

I have a big one and a smaller one today.....first the large.......

I think of her as Cassiar 1, 64' by 14'9". She was owned by General Richard K. Mellon in 1968 when the B&W listing below was published. At that time the new 83' Eldredge-McInnis designed Goudy & Stevens built Cassiar was under construction (as mentioned in the add). Mellon was to die in 1970 and the new boat became famous as Black Knight. This boat reverted to Cassiar, which suits her to a T. In the Dobson design we can see the inspiration for the various features that typify the Lions Welp/Black Knight/Yorel series; her clipper bow, broken sheer, low house, real masts, and general rugged good looks.



I guess the twin V-12's made sense to a multimillionaire financier in the 1960's, today they would be replaced with a pair of turbocharged 6 cylinder engines with similar rating for cruising at 14-15 knots on half the fuel the old jimmys required at 18. A more current photo by Ben Mendlowitz.

[skaraborgcraft]

Now THAT is a NICE boat! It would be even better fitted with a pair of Gardner diesels.


Its just a shame that everything that makes this such a fantastic looking and balanced craft, cant be reproduced much smaller without completely spoiling the style.........challenge for someone.