Page 1 of 3 12 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 89

Thread: Lug rig mast traveller

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
    Posts
    63

    Default Lug rig mast traveller

    I need to fashion a mast traveller for the main halyard on my Caledonia Yawl's balanced lug rig. Classic Marine sells them (http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/boats...ID=84&P_ID=322), but I can't abide their price or the wait. Can someone who has one please tell me what size/gauge bronze rod they are made from?
    Steve

    Caledonia Yawl ~ Swallow
    Nutshell Pram ~ Amazon

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Duncan, Vancouver Island
    Posts
    28,131

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    A question more than an answer but did you try this setup?


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    41,812

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    I should think that 1/4 to 3/8 rod would be OK. I don't like the look of Murray's double hook design, I would prefer both hooks to be in line.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    51,084

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    A question more than an answer but did you try this setup?

    I was introduced to this style by Michael Storer. I now have it on two boats. Quite pleased with it. Easy, inexpensive, and quite effective. You can get the particulars at his web site.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Duncan, Vancouver Island
    Posts
    28,131

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    I was introduced to this style by Michael Storer. I now have it on two boats. Quite pleased with it. Easy, inexpensive, and quite effective. You can get the particulars at his web site.
    I just rigged my new mast with it for the first time yesterday. Worked like a charm.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Oakland, CA
    Posts
    463

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    I think they're doing that on the SCAMP too.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
    Posts
    63

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    A question more than an answer but did you try this setup?

    Actually I did try this rig and found I don't have enough mast height above the yard for it. I couldn't raise the boom high enough, otherwise I liked it a lot. So I have to go with a traveller of some sort. I have a couple design ideas to try before I fall back on the traditional version ala Classic Marine. One involves making a delrin hoop for brass jib hank, but I am not sure the jib hank will be strong enough. Labelled breaking strength is 630 lbs; sail area is 146 sq.ft. Just thinking about a catastrophic failure of the halyard gives me the willies. I thought I would also try fitting a delrin hoop to a 9mm SS s-hook, which should be plenty strong, though not as elegant.
    Steve

    Caledonia Yawl ~ Swallow
    Nutshell Pram ~ Amazon

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Camden, Maine
    Posts
    545

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    Steve
    I had a local welder make mine out of 5/16" stainless.
    Tim Marchetti
    CNC Routing & Design
    www.cncroutinganddesign.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    158

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    FWIW, I bought one of the Classic Marine travellers for my CY only to find out that I did not have enough mast to use it either .... so a traveller may not solve your problem. I ended up just tying the halyard to the yard and that stays on permanently. Then I use a parrel with beads that I tie on to keep the yard close to the mast. It's simple, cheap and it works.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Galveston Bay
    Posts
    967

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    I'm doing something similar to Scott, except that I'm using a toggle and eyesplice rather than parrel with beads. Same result - simple, cheap, and works.
    Al

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    21,595

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    Too gain a bit more hoist you can omit block #3 and run the halyard through a bee-hole athwart the top of the mast.


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    51,084

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Too gain a bit more hoist you can omit block #3 and run the halyard through a bee-hole athwart the top of the mast.

    Or a ss u-bolt facing aft.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
    Posts
    63

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    Thanks, guys. I already have a masthead sheave. There just wasn't enough headroom for a Storer-style rig. I think I should (barely) have enough room for one of the travellers I fashioned yesterday, but I have to wait for a little less wind before hoisting it on the trailered boat. Dryland knockdowns - another scary topic.
    Steve

    Caledonia Yawl ~ Swallow
    Nutshell Pram ~ Amazon

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Schleswig Holstein Germany
    Posts
    570

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    Hi Steve
    What about making the mast a little longer? You still could scarf on a piece at the top.
    If it is allready a bit short, it might be way to short when you start to pull the downhaul and the sail beginns to stretch a bit while sailing.
    Max

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
    Posts
    63

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller


    Here is my current working solution. A delrin hoop on a SS S-hook. The hoop perimeter is 3/8" X 3/8" with a tab for the angled hole that the S-hook fits through. When this traveller is raised to the sheave, the boom seems to have a fair amount of clearance for downhaul tensioning (etc). Only time will tell if it is enough.

    Max, adding length to the top of mast would be difficult due to its hollow birds-mouth construction. I would just build a new one if it comes to that. But I doubt it will.
    Steve

    Caledonia Yawl ~ Swallow
    Nutshell Pram ~ Amazon

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Schleswig Holstein Germany
    Posts
    570

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    Steve
    Compared to a mastring with weldet on hook I gues the delrin hoop might jam easily as it wont stay horizontal.
    Is that the halyard inside the ring?
    Im not sure if that could be trouble to get the sail down in high wind when the ring presses against the rope.
    Cheers Max

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    West Australia
    Posts
    145

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    I have a classic marine traveller on my CY, I found that the mast was barely long enough so instead of using a loop tied to the yard I just wrapped the line around 3 times with just enough slack to get the hook through. If that hadn't been enough I would have raised the mast step a couple of inches, much easier than lenghtening the mast. Tony

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    4,487

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    Why not forget about travellers altogether and simply attach the halyard to the yard with a stunsail halyard bend?
    Last edited by Wooden Boat Fittings; 07-28-2012 at 09:00 AM.
    Visit us to see how we help people complete classic boats authentically.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    11,895

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller



    This is the way to do it for a sal and oar boat. With the hook and a loop for the yard slings, you can unhitch everything and stow it in seconds flat. That business with the extra blocks and the loop of halliard around the mast and all that fiddle and complication is only suitable for daysailers that are rigged up at the dock. It is not acceptable for boats that set and strike underway.

    A stuns'l halliard bend is also much, much slower than slipping a loop on or off of a hook, and it does not incorporate a parrel to keep the yard close to the mast. A separate parrel, especially a non-rigid one, is more likely to bind or jam than the rigid and utterly trouble-free traveller hook. If you line up the hook right, when there's tension on it between the loop for the halliard and the hook, the hoop is held at right angles to the mast, making it 100% impossible to bind or jam.

    It doesn't have to be anything special for a little boat. Here's the latest one I made, for Eric Hvalsoe's new rig. It took a bit of 1/4" steel rod, a propane torch, a bench vise and twenty minutes to bend it up. Then another couple of seconds with the wire-feed to weld it shut. Doesn't have to be stainless or bronze or nothing for a bit or gear that stays up out of the water all the time. If you use cheap and easy-to-weld regular steel, just paint it with rustoleum before you leather it. Once you've gone to the trouble of making one, you'll never want to put up with not having one again.



    Another enormous advantage: if you have your halliard cleat on your mast, look how phenomenally well it can be used to stow your halliard on your mast, trouble-free, untangled and ready to go in a jiffy. The whole thing, mast and reeved-through halliard stay together, ready for you to stow or ship the works without taking a second's extra effort to get things set up. You just take a turn around the bottom horn, up through the hook, and then back to cleat off. Presto!

    Last edited by James McMullen; 07-30-2012 at 12:03 AM.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
    Posts
    63

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    Thanks, James. Good advise, as usual. "West of Vancouver Is." now are ya?
    Steve

    Caledonia Yawl ~ Swallow
    Nutshell Pram ~ Amazon

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    11,895

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    Alas, no longer. I'm back home now. 'Twas a great trip though.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Tuscon AZ
    Posts
    5,212

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    Where is the trip line????
    I love the smell of fresh cut plywood in the morning.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    11,895

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    Balance lug for me, Donald. No trip line. The traveller ring would work just fine with a standing or dipping lug all the same.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Freeland, WA
    Posts
    26,802

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    When it comes time for my rig, James, I'll commission a similar ring from you. Nifty.
    Gerard>
    ​Freeland, WA

    Resistance is NOT futile.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    11,895

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    Happy to oblige, Gerard. Bring a piece of 1/4" steel rod with you next time you come up this way and we'll do it together so you can see how.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Freeland, WA
    Posts
    26,802

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    6" I.D. ring?
    Gerard>
    ​Freeland, WA

    Resistance is NOT futile.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    21,595

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Balance lug for me, Donald. No trip line. The traveller ring would work just fine with a standing or dipping lug all the same.
    I love the lug rig, but I seem to remember a detail about the standing lug rig geometry that will not allow the rig to come down to the deck (or reef) without shifting the yard aft or shipping the boom forward. It was a long time ago and I could be wrong, but I think that was why the rigging style in my drawing above was developed. (Which was taken from WP Stevens book)

  28. #28
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Sioux City, Iowa (Idiot Out Walking Around)
    Posts
    2,101

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    I love the lug rig, but I seem to remember a detail about the standing lug rig geometry that will not allow the rig to come down to the deck (or reef) without shifting the yard aft or shipping the boom forward. It was a long time ago and I could be wrong, but I think that was why the rigging style in my drawing above was developed. (Which was taken from WP Stevens book)
    If you use traditional reefing lines. However...if you angle the last reef line downward (from luff to leach) and peak up the yard until is is very high you get something like a short Gunter almost. Todd Bradshaw has a drawing of it somewhere around here I believe. I saw it within the past 2 or 3 months on another Lug related thread.
    Steve Lewis
    Formerly Lewisboats (don't try to change your email address!)

    http://angelfire.com/ego/lewisboatworks

  29. #29
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Sioux City, Iowa (Idiot Out Walking Around)
    Posts
    2,101

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    Aha! Found it! Thank you Todd.

    Steve Lewis
    Formerly Lewisboats (don't try to change your email address!)

    http://angelfire.com/ego/lewisboatworks

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    21,595

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    Note carefully the attachment of the halyard at the yard in the illustration. If you are using a traveling ring as a parrel that won't work without shifting the attachment of the ring.


  31. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    11,895

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    Hmmm. . .well I guess that's a difference between standing lugs and the balance lug that I use.

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Tuscon AZ
    Posts
    5,212

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Balance lug for me, Donald. No trip line. The traveller ring would work just fine with a standing or dipping lug all the same.
    What do you think of a standing lug rig for a 20 ft. boat?
    I am getting very close to making my rig.

    I have already shortened my mast a little and
    My mast has standing rigging, no backstay though.

    On a standing lug rig do you tack the sail?
    Or does it stay in one place?

    I was going to use a small non overlapping jib and a
    spirit rig square sail with loose footed tack.
    Example below:


    This rig above or the standing lug rig like Phil Bolger uses.
    I do not want a boom.
    Last edited by donald branscom; 08-01-2012 at 02:54 PM.
    I love the smell of fresh cut plywood in the morning.

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    11,895

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    I do not particularly endorse or reccomend a standing lug, especially not a boomless one. And especially, especially not one with a jib or with standing rigging of any sort. That gives you all the disadvantages of a sloop rig without any of the compensatory benefits. Not unless you are planning a historical replica of a particular boat with that rig, or would just enjoy playing around with something unusual for the glory of it.

    For a trailerable or beach-launched boat, especially one with oar auxiliary, I recommend the balanced lug yawl. I'd also buy a cat-yawl or even a cat-ketch as reasonable options, like Bolger's rig for the Long Micro or the B&B Core Sounds. If you must have headsails, then you're definitely better off going with a typical sloop, because you need a backstay of some sort to get your jib to work at its best. The stayed rig is gong to suck every time you have to rig or unrig to trailer though.

    But if it would entertain you more to have a unique and interesting rig instead of a higher performance one, then go for it. It's your boat, nobody else's.

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Tuscon AZ
    Posts
    5,212

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    If I use a standing lug rig I would not have a jib.

    My mast is in a tabernackle.
    Now that I see all of the sail rig possibilities I wish the mast was round.
    But putting up a mast and getting it into a hole would not be easy at all.
    I love the smell of fresh cut plywood in the morning.

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    4,487

    Default Re: Lug rig mast traveller

    To go back to earlier discussions on this thread and elsewhere --

    • The second reef shown in Todd's drawing that Lewisboater referred to (Post 29) is a 'balance reef' first described (as far as I know) by Eric Knight about a hundred years ago, and probably in use for another couple of hundred years before that. This is Knight's sketch of the arrangement --



    In use, you lower the gaff till its jaws touch the boom, where they're tied off. Then you raise the peak again, when the gaff comes up nearly parallel with the mast, effectively turning the mainsail into a trysail. The sketch is of the unreefed sail with reef points shown for the first reef and the balance reef (the solid diagonal line is of course the topping lift). He says of it, "The balance reef is much employed by ouir fishermen and coasters, but scarcely ever aboard yachts. I believe that many amateurs consider this, together with some other useful wrinkles, to be unyachty."

    • While the iron traveller provides one useful solution to the issue, for the reasons that Canoeyawl points out (Post 30) to get the sail to balance properly the halyard needs to be moved along the yard -- easily done while reefing with the stunsail halyard bend I mentioned back in Post 18.


    • The unboomed sprit rig that Donald describes in Post 32 is exactly the rig I used on my fifteen-footer Aileen Louisa. The main was about 100 sg ft and the staysail about forty. The rig was unstayed, the staysail set flying from a removable bowsprit, and in fact she could be sailed una-rigged if you wanted. But the additional drive provided by the staysail was enormous, and I never sailed her without it. The mainsail was originally provided with a boom, which I did away with almost immediately and never once regretted. While AL was certainly not the fastest dinghy on Western Port, she was probably the most comfortable.


    (A larger version of this picture can be seen here.)

    Mike
    Visit us to see how we help people complete classic boats authentically.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •