Second Dory Build, Help Me Out

[Norse-Am]

Building a 2nd "South Bay Dory," my modification of a slab-sided Banker Dory that will replicate Bolger's "Gloucester Gull" except it will be built traditionally out of solid pine and cypress. QUESTIONS for this build from you old hands:

Like my last South Bay Dory, this will be trailered and live much of its life on the trailer.

I intend to bevel deep, flush laps with CLENCH NAILS every 4 inches along the lap (per McMullen). The last one employed s/s screws, which I've been informed may not be best.

I'm thinking about putting a TINY BEAD of BOSTIK 920 inside the laps, unless you all think I ought to use Interlux Seam Sealer?

My knees & ribs will be mesquite, so you yankees north of the Nueces River will need to Google that hardwood, which is one of the most dimensionally stable, crooked woods in the world. More stable than teak, and endlessly available in Texas. I alternate my time between sheltered waters and the family's large Texas cattle ranch which is overrun with Prosopis glandulosa, Honey Mesquite.

I MAY rig this one out to sail with a loose-footed dinghy sail which I already have in the shed. I'll offer the leech and luff in a while, but the mast is 16' tall.

Unlike my last South Bay Dory, I will curve the apron & stem on the lines of the Gloucester Gull.

I need advice on fastening the thwarts and whether or not to case the sheer like my last build (which I like because it offers a lot of grab-and-carry surface).

This is gonna be fun! After this, my last slab-sided dory, I intend to build Clint Chase's latest iteration of the Deblois Street Dory when he has the updated plans out in the Fall... Cheers!

The South Bay Dory, for reference:

[James McMullen]

Opinions freely offered to take or leave as you choose. It's your boat. . .

I've never used Bostik 920. I know that both Walter Simmons and Eric Hvalsoe swear by Boatlife Lifecaulk instead so I might be inclined to follow the lead of these very, very experienced lapstrake boatbuilders if I were to use goo in the seam. Lifecaulk is forever flexible, which is exactly what you need.

Clench nails good.

Mesquite grown crooks extra good. Start seasoning them now if you haven't already. Bandsaw them out at least a half inch oversize and make sure they've air dried for a year plus a year for every inch of thickness. . .but if you didn't plan ahead and don't have a time machine? Then you can maybe try to microwave dry them like the bowl turners sometimes do.

Why the laps brought down to flush? It's stronger (and I think looks a lot more like a genuine banker) if you leave proper laps. Flush-sided looks to me just too much like a common-variety plywood dory until you get really close.

Thwarts generally don't get fastened at all in a banker, they just slot down over the frames and rest on the risers. You want to be able to stack these two like Dixie cups just like the originals so you don't need to buy an extra trailer, don't you? The thwarts need to come out then.

Your sheer rail is fine if you like it that way, but many of us find the utility of all sorts of lash points and grab-holds of a slotted gunwale to be very useful indeed, not to mention the fact that it saves weight and makes it easier to slosh out the sand out of your boat. But you can do another solid rail if you prefer. No biggie.

This type of boat really won't sail for squat except for downwind. You can play with it if you wanna, but I'd myself probably save the sailing for the DeBlois St. Dory which really is a genuine sail and oar boat.

[Eric Hvalsoe]

Why flush lap? Run a bead of almost anything if you wish - I kinda like the way LifeCaulk handles. I don't know why it costs so much. There is a whole slew of Sika products as well. Most of these products are urethanes (LifeCaulk is a polysulfide). I guess the 'dory lap' is an almost flush lap. Nice looking boat.

Heading out of town, good luck on your inquiries.

[Norse-Am]

All right, fellas, I'll lap the strakes like a good Norsky. It'll be a first-time learning experience, but I'll go ahead and attack it, since you all are so convincing...

I spline the bottom planks with pine cleats. Can I use Titebond II in the joints, or do you recommend leaving it dry?

ALSO, I forgot to mention I will be OILING the finished boat, since the wood is so dang beautiful; refer to the South Bay Dory:


I mean, look at that clear white pine planking! I've got enough for this next build! Woohoo!

[Norse-Am]

UPDATE: I'd like to build a Chamberlain dory rigged both for sailing and rowing, around 16' LOA. Really looks doable. REALLY like this one: http://gcarusoboatworks.com/chamberlain-dory-skiff/

Thoughts? Anyone know where I can get plans? I'll be looking, but I bet I could build this one "by guess and by God." All aforementioned things remain pertinent about construction details, etc.

[E.Johnson]

Thoughts? Anyone know where I can get plans?

I'm not asking this to be a troll, but: Have you looked on Amazon (or similar) for The Dory Book? I'm assuming plans of some sort for the boat are in there, as per the link you provided. I can't say I have tons of experience hunting up boat plans but so far if a boat came from a book, it seems you have to get that book or hope someone poached the design and called it something else.

Either way, I'm on your side... that's a sweet looking boat and kudos to you for wanting to sport the "natural" look! (He says, planning to paint his own first effort - but I used SurePly, so I kinda have to paint over the markings.)

[Thorne]

I sail and row a Chamberlain dory skiff that I restored and rigged for sail. So I may be able to answer some of your questions. Some of the museums back East have plans, as does The Dory Book, but those are for the 13.5' design. Stretching it can only improve it for anything other than rowing through swell and surf. There are a lot of other sail & oar designs out there that may be better for your purposes, hard to say, so it is worth checking them out also.

From last weekend up in Humboldt County, CA.





And from a few years ago in Oregon -

UPDATE: I'd like to build a Chamberlain dory rigged both for sailing and rowing, around 16' LOA. Really looks doable. REALLY like this one: http://gcarusoboatworks.com/chamberlain-dory-skiff/

Thoughts? Anyone know where I can get plans? I'll be looking, but I bet I could build this one "by guess and by God." All aforementioned things remain pertinent about construction details, etc.

[Norse-Am]

In order of reply: E.Johnson, no troll tone detected, so don't worry. I will buy the Dory Book ASAP (as in, ordering it today). Indeed, all my research since I started this thread points back to that book... Thorne: as a lurker in WoodenBoat forum for a number of years, I have appreciated your posts, and it is no wonder; we are obviously somewhere on the same wavelength. The boat whose pictures you have posted is so gorgeous that if I only built a rough approximation of it I'd crow about it for years. I'm going to buy the dory book, but for some reason the spatial visualization in my head is allowing me to see how a stretched Chamberlain would come together. I am confident some of yous guys babysitting me a little on this thread would ensure my efforts pay some dividends. The boatbuilding bug has bit me bad since I built that little slabsided dory, as it had been a dream of mine to build a rowboat since 7th grade. What with the info I've learned since building it and getting input from the dudes-in-the-know on this forum, I'm only more amped to build more...

NOW, to some specific questions: is a splined bottom & transom OK? As in, I dado tongues into the edges of my bottom planks and slip a pine batten in with Bostik 920. Seems to have worked for my first dory.

Also, what are the thoughts about rocker in the bottom? Do I go flat-iron with the bottom or can I rocker it a couple inches fore and aft? My first dory was rockered thusly, and I don't have any boat to compare the performance to, but it seems to row fantastic until I get weight in the bow. Thanks.

[Canoeyawl]

If I was going to rig the boat to sail, I would use rivets. They are a stronger fastening system.
Sailboats can develop twisting forces on the hull that rowboats will never see

[Thorne]

First, I'd just build to the plan, stretched if you want to go that route but otherwise the same. Anything else and you'll have a hybrid design that may not do what it should, and can't be called a Chamberlain Dory Skiff. That will answer your questions about rocker and a lot more. The design is made for rowing in swell and surf, so with the narrow beam and short waterline it will never be a performance sailing boat or fast rower.

Don't know about the splined process, seems like it would open up a lot of grain for rot and moisture exposure, but I'm certainly no expert! Canoeyawl knows a lot more, and I'd take his advice on the copper rivets -- my dory skiff is also riveted. The only issues I've had have been a persistent leak in the bottom planks (an unfilled gap somewhere) and a few cracked sawn WO frames from sailing stresses.

As above, I'd strongly suggest that you look at your needs, crew & cargo loads, sailing waters, and budget -- then choose a design that meets these. There are LOTS of great sail & oar designs out there from experienced designers like Vivier, Welsford, Storer, Oughtred, etc.

In order of reply: E.Johnson, no troll tone detected, so don't worry. I will buy the Dory Book ASAP (as in, ordering it today). Indeed, all my research since I started this thread points back to that book... Thorne: as a lurker in WoodenBoat forum for a number of years, I have appreciated your posts, and it is no wonder; we are obviously somewhere on the same wavelength. The boat whose pictures you have posted is so gorgeous that if I only built a rough approximation of it I'd crow about it for years. I'm going to buy the dory book, but for some reason the spatial visualization in my head is allowing me to see how a stretched Chamberlain would come together. I am confident some of yous guys babysitting me a little on this thread would ensure my efforts pay some dividends. The boatbuilding bug has bit me bad since I built that little slabsided dory, as it had been a dream of mine to build a rowboat since 7th grade. What with the info I've learned since building it and getting input from the dudes-in-the-know on this forum, I'm only more amped to build more...

NOW, to some specific questions: is a splined bottom & transom OK? As in, I dado tongues into the edges of my bottom planks and slip a pine batten in with Bostik 920. Seems to have worked for my first dory.

Also, what are the thoughts about rocker in the bottom? Do I go flat-iron with the bottom or can I rocker it a couple inches fore and aft? My first dory was rockered thusly, and I don't have any boat to compare the performance to, but it seems to row fantastic until I get weight in the bow. Thanks.

[E.Johnson]

The boatbuilding bug has bit me bad since I built that little slabsided dory, as it had been a dream of mine to build a rowboat since 7th grade. What with the info I've learned since building it and getting input from the dudes-in-the-know on this forum, I'm only more amped to build more...

Right? I'm still a long way away from finishing my first ever boat, but me being me, I'm already looking ahead to the next one. I have this fantasy about building something for my brother and sister-in-law for Christmas. And then maybe a small boat for my nephew, who is years away from being able to appreciate the experience (he's not even 1 yet). And after exhausting the family gifts angle, I might really take it to the next level and find a community group that would benefit from a boat or three. One boat at a time, however. Still, when the bug bites, it bites HARD.

[Norse-Am]

Waiting on the Dory Book. It shipped today. Looking forward to this one. Also liking the look of the 16 foot Hampton Flattie in Chapelle's "Boatbuilding." Whatever I settle on, the next boat is for my two boys, 17 & 15 years old, and needs to be sail/oar, perhaps even going with the ability to hang a 5-horse off the transom.

[Norse-Am]

Ran across Paul Gartside's Shelburne Dory... Plans seem kinda steep at $195, but it's a nice-looking dory. Thoughts?

[James McMullen]

So what's the dealio with the dories, Norse-am? I like the Chamberlain Dory-skiff idea better than another banker for sure, but after building and using several dozens of small boats including both dories and that Chamberlain skiff I find I personally vastly, vastly prefer the faering sort of boat in each and every possible way myself. With your "Norse" bit right there in your chosen forum handle, why aren't you going towards a more norse sort of small boat?

I'm not saying that you should need to have the same preferences in boats as I do necessarily. Everyone has different needs and priorities after all. But I am curious indeed why a "Norse-American" like yourself wouldn't be more interested in trying out a Norse boat now that you've got a little boatbuilding experience. Maybe it's time for the training wheels to come off and to stop settling for dory type performance.

[Clinton B Chase]

So what's the dealio with the dories, Norse-am? I like the Chamberlain Dory-skiff idea better than another banker for sure, but after building and using several dozens of small boats including both dories and that Chamberlain skiff I find I personally vastly, vastly prefer the faering sort of boat in each and every possible way myself. With your "Norse" bit right there in your chosen forum handle, why aren't you going towards a more norse sort of small boat?

This is why I drew the Deblois St. Dory to get a dory that more followed a round bilged hull in form and function, but retained the Dory's simplicity.

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...77#post3390277

[Norse-Am]

Perhaps I am still sticking too close to shore, so to speak, starting my boatbuilding career with flat-bottomed dories. The double-ended norseboats are far and away my favorites, but down here on the southern tip of Texas my only resources are this forum and books. Therefore, a couple more dories should do more good than I'll before I build my clench-nailed faerings and langskips. I have a stack of lumber in my shed ready for another 16 LOA boat, but I'm not ready to lay down sawn and sprung keelsons just yet. I really love Clint's Deblois St Dory. I think I should just build the one he has drawn up now and not wait for the 2.0 version. That would suit me best.

[James McMullen]

The double-ended norseboats are far and away my favorites. . .

Well, me too. And I think you're just psyching yourself out, they're not really an order of magnitude harder than any other solid timber boat. In fact, a Whitehall or something like that would be harder. You ought to look at Iain Oughtred's Elf and Elfyn designs, amigo. His plans are very, very good. But if you do want to build another dory, then a Swampscott dory like Clint's Deblois St. Dory is a much better boat in every way than another slab-sided Banks. Clint also has plans for a rowing faering called Drake though.

Don't sell yourself short, my friend. You can do it! With the drive you've already shown, I believe in you.

[TerryLL]

Both round-sided and flat-sided dories require about the same methods and skills. If you can follow a set of plans, accurately cut a plank bevel, and spile a plank shape, then you can open your horizons to not only round-sided dories, but to all the glued lap designs of Welsford, Oughtred, and others.

[Daniel Noyes]

Perhaps I am still sticking too close to shore, so to speak, starting my boatbuilding career with flat-bottomed dories. The double-ended norseboats are far and away my favorites, but down here on the southern tip of Texas my only resources are this forum and books. Therefore, a couple more dories should do more good than I'll before I build my clench-nailed faerings and langskips. I have a stack of lumber in my shed ready for another 16 LOA boat, but I'm not ready to lay down sawn and sprung keelsons just yet. I really love Clint's Deblois St Dory. I think I should just build the one he has drawn up now and not wait for the 2.0 version. That would suit me best.

It's not often you hear the phrase "sticking close to shore" and the word "dories" in the same sentence.
It was a dory that was the first boat to sail single handed across the Atlantic Ocean, and comissioned and sailed by a Nordic fisherman!
I like your Idea of building a plank Gloucester Gull I have considered that as well, interesting project.

Regarding your inital post and Questions:

I would go with traditional dory laps as you will see in Dory Book (DB)

4" for clench nails sounds good, I certainly wouldnt go any farther apart than that though.

There is no need for any type of rubberized sealer between dory laps, neither of the shops I have worked for would ever consider such a treatment. They did however run a thread of cotton calk along the bottom/Garboard plank joint, calked all the bottom seams and ran it ip the stem and stern to the #2 plank at least.

The solid rail is a traditional dory construction method and known for it's incredible strength when battered by waves far from shore, typical construction is shown in DB consisting of solid sawn rail between frame heads and wide cap layed over frame ends.

16' is way too high for a dory mast on a 16+-ft. boat, the sail rig for the 21' Alpha racing dory calls for a 17' mast!

Also 4 sawn frames are traditional dory construction and dories, including the Alpha at 21' in length, can be built with just 4 frames.


Just wait till the Dory Book arrives... your not going to want to put it down

[Clinton B Chase]

Just wait till the Dory Book arrives... your not going to want to put it down

'Tis true, the book inspired me to draw my own dory as well as build one...'cept they have been for other people! Sam Manning's illustrations are wonderful and inspiring.

[Eric Hvalsoe]

In my prideful youth I never bothered running a bead along the lap. I could brag about my dry laps and dry hulls, 'cept maybe for a little taking up after a seasonal dry out. Then I decided, why not give my clients a break, despite the extra work. No taking up whatsoever. Never ever a drop in the boat. And a little structural stick to it ness to back up those clench nails, which I use whenever possible. 4" sounds like a large nailing interval, depending on plank thickness and nail gauge. If you are running a bead you must take the time to insure unbroken contact. Really, why cotton rather than compound around the garboard and hood ends on a small boat like this? Are you trying to tighten the bugger up with a mallet? You still have to seal and caulk the cotton for Pete's sake.

[Norse-Am]

Gents, the feedback has been excellent, and for that I thank each and every one of you. I'm 3rd gen Norsk whose Norsk relatives took as a lad to see the Oseberg and Gokstad ships in Oslo. I live in Port Isabel, which you may recognize from Chapelle where the Port Isabel sloop scow still plies the Mexican Laguna Madre just south of us. The first wooden boat I was ever in, including Norway, was this boat I built by guess and by God, and I guess I used enough screws and glues to have pulled it off. Imagine my dismay last fall, when I discovered I coulda used my GI bill to attend The Landing School, were it not for the half-completed M.Ed. in educational leadership that assured I'd never get to go that route. Forehead slap. I've gone through Chapelle, Oughtred's Clinker Ply book, Parker's Sharpie Book, and now I eagerly await The Dory Book. With all you spiling seafarers and me books, as well as a hard-won ability to REALLY sharpen hand tools, I may yet fill the bays of Texas with lapstraked double-enders! Semper Fi. Once more unto the breach...

[Norse-Am]

Dory Book is in hand. I believe I will be building the Hammond 16 foot Swampscott. Riveted dory strakes and mesquite transom, stem, and frames. I know already everyone is going to be amazed by the mesquite, which is so dimensionally stable, I can cut it green and use it. I know I'm going to catch hell for such a bold claim, but we'll just see. Also, do I start a new thread for that build? I reckon I do. Anyone got objections to the Hammond?

[E.Johnson]

I'd say just keep using this thread, as presumably you'll ask The Forum Goons(tm) for assistance sooner or later, right?

As for mesquite, the up-side is that if the boat is a disaster you can smoke some meats over it.