Romney's IRA

[Paul Pless]

Then again, I don't know that to be the case.... and a 22,700% increase over and above the maximum legal deposits to the IRA is a bit more than merely 'remarkably good luck'. This was precisely what Harry Markopoulis thought, when checking the investment claims of Bernie Madoff.

there's that allusion to ponzi schemes again. That Huffpo I posted earlier shows some Warren Buffett investments that made similar returns, are you suggesting any wrong doing on his part?

[Kaa]

I think Norman correctly points out the decisive flaw of Romney -- he was successful in business to the point of becoming rich -- and we really can't let such people near the levers of power, can we?

Kaa

[Tom Montgomery]

Mitt Romney touts his success in business as qualifying him for POTUS above and beyond Barack Obama who has no business background.

Fine. So it seems to me his history at Bain Capital and his personal finances should be completely open to allow the electorate to make a judgement. His business and financial dealings are fair game for exposure and criticism.

[Tom Montgomery]

If a candidate runs for public office on the theory that government should be run like a business, then it is fair to examine how he has conducted his business. That includes his personal business.

Personally, I think good government is about promoting the general welfare. That is definitely not what private business is about.

[ccmanuals]

Romney's current campaign advisor when he was head of the GOP demanded that John Kerry produce 20 years of tax returns. Which he did. When that didn't produce any thing he then demanded that Kerry's wife produce her tax returns which she filed separately. Of course Kerry basically told him to go pound salt.

This is the same advisor that said one year of returns for Romney is fine that Romney retired retroactively.

Just trying to put some stuff in perspective here.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

I think Norman correctly points out the decisive flaw of Romney -- he was successful in business to the point of becoming rich -- and we really can't let such people near the levers of power, can we?

Kaa

When a wealthy elite gets it's hands on the levers of power it's called a plutocracy. The dangers of that have been the topic of discourse since before the time of Christ.
Thanks for identifying yourself but I doubt you have the price of admisission to that club. If you did you wouldn't be hanging around here.

[BrianW]

Was it called plutocracy when Kennedy was president?

[Kaa]

Thanks for identifying yourself but I doubt you have the price of admisission to that club.

LOL, so make up your mind..? :-D

Kaa

[ccmanuals]

Here is the problem as I see it. It's really not down in the weeds that far. Romney is making the case that as a business guy who ran a highly profitable and successful business that he is the most qualified to get the economy going again and bring back jobs. At this exact same time he is also saying that if you "want free stuff" which he calls health care reform, SS, medicare, medicaid etc. then you need to vote for the other guy.

Now, the other side is making the claim that he made his fortune on shady deals, outsourcing jobs and hiding money overseas to avoid paying taxes. And, they want him to produce tax returns that will prove one way or another if this is true.

Romney has obviously evaluated the cost to his election if doesn't release the returns and the cost if he does and has determined that releasing them will hurt more than keeping them secret.

[Tom Montgomery]

Romney is making the case that as a business guy who ran a highly profitable and successful business that he is the most qualified to get the economy going again and bring back jobs....

Now, the other side is making the claim that he made his fortune on shady deals, outsourcing jobs and hiding money overseas to avoid paying taxes. And, they want him to produce tax returns that will prove one way or another if this is true.

Exactly.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

there's that allusion to ponzi schemes again. That Huffpo I posted earlier shows some Warren Buffett investments that made similar returns, are you suggesting any wrong doing on his part?

WE haven't heard he was in the running. Can you bring us up to date?

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

I will only release 2 tax returns. But I have nothing to hide. Not in the Cayman Islands. Not in Bermuda. And certainly not in Switzerland.

This, from the same party that cried and wailed about a birth certificate. What a joke.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Was it called plutocracy when Kennedy was president?

You can take my word for it people back then were very smart and knew what a plutocrcy was, sonny.
We had two presidents who were not very wealthy and several who had inherited substancial wealth. But they were professional politicians all their lives and are concidered great presidents.One of the poorest presidents, Harry Truman, is concidered a great president as well.
When Kennedy was president the top 20 % did not own ~83% of the nations wealth.
When Kennedy was president the top tax rate was 70% or more.
Banks were controlled by the Glass-Stiegal Act.
There were no hedge funds.
There were no swaps
There were no IRAs
Sorry you missed all that. It was agreat time for America

[Paul Pless]

WE haven't heard he was in the running. Can you bring us up to date?

Bernie Madoff isn't running either, but Norm has compared Romney to Madoff directly three times in this thread alone. FWW, I like Buffet and wish he would have been more politically active and vocal for the left before now. . .

[Tom Montgomery]

You can take my word for it people back then were very smart and knew what a plutocrcy was, sonny....

When Kennedy was president the top 20 % did not own ~83% of the nations wealth.
When Kennedy was president the top tax rate was 70% or more.
Banks were controlled by the Glass-Stiegal Act.
There were no hedge funds.
There were no swaps
There were no IRAs
Sorry you missed all that. It was agreat time for America

Yep.

The "Me Generation" baby boomers are just absolutely convinced that they are smarter than their parents and grandparents. To our detriment.

[Donn]

You can take my word for it people back then were very smart and knew what a plutocrcy[sic] was, sonny.
We had two presidents who were not very wealthy and several who had inherited substancial[sic] wealth. But they were professional politicians all their lives and are concidered[sic] great presidents.One of the poorest presidents, Harry Truman, is concidered a great president as well.
When Kennedy was president the top 20 % did not own ~83% of the nations wealth.
When Kennedy was president the top tax rate was 70% or more.
Banks were controlled by the Glass-Stiegal Act.
There were no hedge funds.
There were no swaps
There were no IRAs
Sorry you missed all that. It was agreat time for America

They probably started earlier, but hedge funds were definitely around in the 20's.

IRAs began 11 years after JFK's death, with ERISA.

You can't spell worth a hoot and your history is weak....sonny.

[Tom Montgomery]

I want to know how this businessman actually handled his business since he is running on that expertise.

[Paul Pless]

Yep.

The "Me Generation" baby boomers are just absolutely convinced that they are smarter than their parents and grandparents. To our detriment.

tom, aren't you a Boomer?

Yup, Greediest generation ever, they really screwed things up for mine and later generations. Took every bit that their parents had worked for and when they had spent all that they mortgaged their children's and grandchildren's future.

[Tom Montgomery]

tom, aren't you a Boomer?

Yep.

[BrianW]

This, from the same party that cried and wailed about a birth certificate. What a joke.

Being native born American citizen is a requirement to hold the office, releasing tax returns is not.

[BrianW]

When a wealthy elite gets it's hands on the levers of power it's called a plutocracy.

Was it called plutocracy when Kennedy was president?

You can take my word for it people back then were very smart and knew what a plutocrcy was, sonny.
We had two presidents who were not very wealthy and several who had inherited substancial wealth. But they were professional politicians all their lives and are concidered great presidents.One of the poorest presidents, Harry Truman, is concidered a great president as well.
When Kennedy was president the top 20 % did not own ~83% of the nations wealth.
When Kennedy was president the top tax rate was 70% or more.
Banks were controlled by the Glass-Stiegal Act.
There were no hedge funds.
There were no swaps
There were no IRAs
Sorry you missed all that. It was agreat time for America

A simple "yes" would have sufficed.

[BrianW]

I want to know how this businessman actually handled his business since he is running on that expertise.

Uh, he is richer than when he started out. So I'd say he's a pretty good business man.

[Tom Montgomery]

Uh, he is richer than when he started out. So I'd say he's a pretty good business man.

Uh, that he is richer now than when he started out is not is not in dispute... is it?

You can say he is a pretty good business man or....

[wardd]

Uh, he is richer than when he started out. So I'd say he's a pretty good business man.

that can be said about crooks and liars too

[ccmanuals]

Uh, he is richer than when he started out. So I'd say he's a pretty good business man.

Same can be said about Al Capone.

[BrianW]

that can be said about crooks and liars too

Well then, there's just no pleasing some folks.

But in any case, making money instead of losing it is considered a measure of a good business man in most circles.

[Norman Bernstein]

Bernie Madoff isn't running either, but Norm has compared Romney to Madoff directly three times in this thread alone.

No I didn't, and you know that. I referred to Madoff as an example of someone whose financial behaviors justified examination, simply on the face of the claimed performance. Madoff wasn't running for president, thankfully... But we've got someone who is, has made extraordinary claims which, on face value, don't add up, and we deserve to know why.

[Norman Bernstein]

Uh, he is richer than when he started out. So I'd say he's a pretty good business man.

Now explain why that would make him a good president.

[Ian McColgin]

" making money instead of losing it is considered a measure of a good business man in most circles." [#86] is what they said of Madoff also. Romney is running for president and we need to KNOW he came by his wealth honestly, despite appearances, and we need to KNOW that despite his record of political preverication he is infact honorable in other areas of his life.

[Norman Bernstein]

Being native born American citizen is a requirement to hold the office, releasing tax returns is not.

You are absolutely right. He is under no obligation to release them... And the voters are under no obligation to vote for him, either.

[wardd]

madoff has brians vote

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

If I'm bit mistaken anyone with self employment income can open a SEP IRA. My wife has one and we've contributed the maximum to it in some years. We aren't "very rich".

Nobody here cares how you value your economiic status. But if you have knowledge of how a SEP IRA works why not lay it out? With some facts and insights you might blow the opposition to smithereens and maybe get Willard some votes.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

The IRS website will tell you everything you need or want to know about how a SEP IRA works. What is it exactly that makes you libs so cranky all the time?

I checked that. There's nothing said about how to run your SEP up 2000% in 20 years. I wanna' know the good stuff. The kind of stuff you high rollers get from your tax attorneys. During the Bush years my IRAs looked like the rats ate them. What's good for Willard should be good for old C Chuck too.

[ljb5]

If he used his IRA to buy pre-IPO shares that appreciated that much it was good planning on his part, but not illegal.

I think that would probably run afoul of the "self-dealing" prohibition on IRAs if he controlled the companies or had insider information.

Huge returns are not, by themselves, an indication of something amiss, but it's certainly worth looking into.

Romeny's returns are simply too big to be considered normal.... too big even to be considered exceptional. Those are some really, really big returns.

I've done okay in the stock market. People who are really good at it have done much better... but Romney's IRA.... that's on an entirely different level.

[Kaa]

What is it exactly that makes you libs so cranky all the time?

They have a liberal amount of sand in their ladyparts :-D

Kaa

[PhaseLockedLoop]

Well then, there's just no pleasing some folks.

But in any case, making money instead of losing it is considered a measure of a good business man in most circles.

It depends on how you make it, boz*. Are you really as clu*less as you present? Pretend to be a dop* long enough and people will think you are.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

They probably started earlier, but hedge funds were definitely around in the 20's.

IRAs began 11 years after JFK's death, with ERISA.

You can't spell worth a hoot and your history is weak....sonny.

Thank you! That's just precious.

[Boston]

OK I'm actually really kinda liking this idea, lets forget its about Romney ( I try and forget that name as often as possible ) and look at the bright side.

Does this mean that I can day trade with my IRA account and not pay income on it ? cause nothing sucks more than having to half my earnings at tax time. If I could work with that tax money I'd be growing my funds at a much better rate and it might make a nice nest egg by the time I hit 70.

[Boston]

OK I'm a dope. never knew that, thanks for the tip.

[Rick-Mi]

Yet another case of educated idiots grasping at straws and illustrating the need for the Tenth Commandment.

Assumptions of rate of return based simply on the existing principle of an IRA based on annual contribution limits are absurd. There are numerous ways large amounts can accumulate in an IRA via rollovers. Without any details other than the amount of assets I can make a highly educated guess as to how they got there. First, almost any qualified retirement plan can be rolled into an IRA. A very popular planning technique for successful business owners (particularly in the 80's and 90's before increased IRS code restrictions) was to contribute LARGE amounts to a defined benefit plan where annual contributions can total $200,000, $300,000 or more. Upon plan termination the standard practice is to roll accumulated assets from the defined benefit plan to an IRA. This can be done with multiple companies, any of which Mitt was a participant. Romney's numbers are totally in line.....

[Keith Wilson]

Lots of guessing here. It would most likely clear things up if Mr. Romney would release his tax returns like every other serious candidate, instead of just one year.

[Shang]

Uh, he is richer than when he started out. So I'd say he's a pretty good business man.

Jesse James also became richer than when he started out, but that didn't qualify him as president.

[Canoeyawl]

Jesse James also became richer than when he started out, but that didn't qualify him as president.

He would be a likely candidate these days.

[wardd]

He would be a likely candidate these days.

the republicans would love him, pro gun and anti tax