Northeaster Dory in glued-lap?

[Wesley]

Hi,
I am looking to build a dory this winter from plans for rowing/sailing. The Northeaster dory has caught my eye, but I'd like to use glued-lap construction rather than CLC's LapStitch method. Is there any reason that I couldn't use the plank patterns exactly as they're laid out for LapStitch, on a glued-lap hull?

If it's not practical to build the Northeaster dory by glued-lap, then I'd probably build a John Dory, but I like the lighter weight of the northeaster, and I have seen its construction manual, which is excellent. Maybe someone who's seen the manual for the John Dory and the Northeaster Dory can compare the detail and clarity of the instructions?

Thanks, all - it's a great forum.
-W

[JimD]

Welcome to the forum, Wesley. Not meaning to sound too picky but I'd say the CLC method is glued lap, just a specific approach to glued lap. Is it the stitching you object to? You might be able to leave out most of the stitching and find ways to clamp instead. You'll almost certainly have to do some beveling to get the planks to land and fit properly. Have you asked CLC? http://www.clcboats.com/faqs/lapstitch/lapstitch.html

[Wesley]

Hi Jim.
I don't object to the stitching. I Believe I'll have an easier time planing bevels in the planks than I will routing the rabbets for LapStitch. And I've seen where others have mentioned the mess that's created when epoxy runs through the seam and down the inside of the hull. Also, I have built a cedar-strip kayak, and the glued-lap method seems like it makes better use of the skills I learned in that process.

You're right, though, that LapStitch looks just like a version of glued-lap but with a less-elegant way of joining the planks. That's part of what makes me think I could use the same plank patterns but build the boat glued-lap.

I have not yet talked to CLC. Why get an expert opinion when I can encourage internet speculation instead?

-W

[JimD]

Hi Jim.
I don't object to the stitching. I Believe I'll have an easier time planing bevels in the planks than I will routing the rabbets for LapStitch. And I've seen where others have mentioned the mess that's created when epoxy runs through the seam and down the inside of the hull. Also, I have built a cedar-strip kayak, and the glued-lap method seems like it makes better use of the skills I learned in that process.

You're right, though, that LapStitch looks just like a version of glued-lap but with a less-elegant way of joining the planks. That's part of what makes me think I could use the same plank patterns but build the boat glued-lap.

I have not yet talked to CLC. Why get an expert opinion when I can encourage internet speculation instead?

-W

In that case I'd speculate that since there are at least a few proven ways to land the laps properly and you understand what's involved as you seem to do then sure, why not? As far as running epoxy is concerned thats likely to happen anyway. Best way I know of to prevent that at least with the clc method of gluing is to use masking tape to seal the downhill (inside) side of the joint to prevent the epoxy from running.

[James McMullen]

You can do it, sure. But a simple rabbeting router bit with the guide bearing is phenomenally easy to use. It's far, far simpler and quicker than you are imagining. The biggest problem you are going to encounter to do it the other way is that you will need to build the jig with all the station molds in order to plane your bevels correctly, something that is not provided for in the lapstitch plans.

I wouldn't do it myself, honestly. Seems like much more hassle than its worth. Lapstitch works fine for what it is. But if you are thinking of this boat as practice towards a traditional cedar-on-oak boat down the road, the lapstitch isn't going to give you much progress in skill building in the same way. It's really much easier and simpler and quicker. For boats in this size range and below it is a perfectly reasonable way to go, and probably only 70% of the work.

The John Dory is heavier because it's a noticeably bigger boat with more built-in interior furniture and with flotation chambers in the ends. They really aren't all that directly comparable. The Northeaster is (barely) cartoppable, the John Dory is enough bigger that a trailer is the only practical answer.

I don't dislike the Northeaster, but I'd rather have a bigger boat myself for the camp cruising I do.

[Wesley]

Thanks, James, for the insight. The main motivation to build this boat is to have a boat, not to develop skills for the next one. And I'd like my girlfriend and I to be able to lift the boat between us, which means 200 pounds is too heavy. So perhaps I should acquire a router and learn to use it...

And Jim: the suggestion to prevent drips by sealing the inside of the seam with masking tape has me slapping my forehead. Of course!

-W

[JimD]

...

And Jim: the suggestion to prevent drips by sealing the inside of the seam with masking tape has me slapping my forehead. Of course!

-W

Its one of those incredibly obvious things that only took me about five years to figure out.

[James McMullen]

Even if you get drips, it doesn't matter. A heat gun and a sharp scraper will fetch em every time. In fact, I bet you will spend more time and effort trying to tape off accurately than just scraping once you learn the knack. I never bother to tape off unless it's going to be finished bright. And your boat will actually be more durable and need less frequent maintenance if you don't finish it bright.

[JimD]

Everyone has their preferences. I rarely use my heat gun. Don't like listening to it, don't like the blast of hot air, don't like dragging a power cord around, don't like scrapping plywood. Would much rather spare myself all that by using masking tape. I don't mean in any way to say my way is a better way to build a boat, but its better for me.

[James McMullen]

S'all good, JimD. To each cat his own rat. Especially for hobby boatbuilding, it should be enjoyable, or why do it in the first place?

[Wesley]

Well, I just measured my basement/workshop and determined that unless the boat will be sailed exclusively on basement floodwaters, it can't be longer than sixteen feet. So I'm going to look at the CLC Skerry or the Oughtred Amberjack. Round and round we go... Good thing I am not planning to get her wet before next spring.

Both of these boats are light enough that we could lift them up a beach together, and both have built-in flotation tanks.

Can someone comment on the quality of the Amberjack plans? I have seen a build manual from CLC, and it is certainly top-notch. Is Oughtred's book a necessary companion to his plans?

[Wesley]

OK, I bought the Amberjack plans and Oughtred's book. Check this space in six months to see how it's coming!

[sailoar]

You decided between two boats in two hours? That's a new Forum record. Good choice, though. If I were rowing as much as sailing, I'd pick that one too. Sailmaker Todd Bradshaw is in your town - if you need one made, maybe you could walk right over and pick it up!

[Wesley]

You decided between two boats in two hours? That's a new Forum record. Good choice, though. If I were rowing as much as sailing, I'd pick that one too. Sailmaker Todd Bradshaw is in your town - if you need one made, maybe you could walk right over and pick it up!

Heh. I'd already decided that I'd have chosen the John Dory but for its weight. Since I can carry either boat that'll fit in my space, the decision was easy. And thanks for the tip - I'll look up Todd when it comes time to think about rigging.

[JimD]

You decided between two boats in two hours? That's a new Forum record.

It usually takes me about 2 years to decide between two designs. And then I get it wrong. Amberjack looks like a fine boat. This description would be cause for me to choose something else, but that's because I don't like tender and would gladly trade a little slipperiness for more stability under sail:

These light dories have quite a lively performance, especially under sail: the extra reserve stability of the rounded sides helps the sailing ability, handling and safety. However a dory is primarily a rowing boat, and no compromise is made of the superb handling under oars.

[captaindan]

This is a test ! I am a first time user of site and first time boat builder (or anchor builder we will see) I am building a 23 ft dorry/skiff from many designs I am building entire boat of aromatic ceder and clear epoxy (west system) I have some knowledge of strength of materials from home building and sailing may have taught me some idea of forces on boat. The bottom and a third of the way up the haul will be strip planking and then overlaping the strip planking will be laped planks. ihave hauled 25 ft ceder trees to mill and now have 5/8 x 9inchx25 boards. my question is if i do not notch the boards and just overlap.1) how much should i overlap.2) can I epoxy right to clinkers ceder shrinks or swells x 5%,but the clinker will ot shrink because of grain in different dirrection? 3) I could add a 1 x4 to top of strip planking and attach to clinker with screws to the inside with room to move a bit them epoxy to 1 x4. Would this help or glue with a flexable caulk ? 3) I want the beauty of the wood to show thru so was planning on clear epoxy with uniderectional mat, but what weight would i use to make the bend over the lap ( aprox 5/8 " with rounded edge for caulking).

[captaindan]

A trick i use to stop epoxy drip is to caulk the underside first-then the epoxy has to stay and if it gets thru- you know you did a bad job chaulking.

[hightop]

I don't think you want to epoxy your first plank to the strip-planked section. Not sure what you mean by "notched". I would think you could bevel the top of the strip planked section, and lap the planks from there dry. you should probably start your own thread, get more replies that way.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

You have to be careful. Lapstitch can do things true lapstrake cannot.
In true lapstrake the angle between any two planks must be within certain limits so the beval will be sufficiently wide for a glue joint. With Lapstitche the angle can be more extreme because the epoxy joint doesn't require a beval. In fact, it may be a Lapstitch design was potted out to allow fewer planks per side and cannot be done any other way.

[captaindan]

I don't think you want to epoxy your first plank to the strip-planked section. Not sure what you mean by "notched". I would think you could bevel the top of the strip planked section, and lap the planks from there dry. you should probably start your own thread, get more replies that way.

Thank you! now as the lap boards go up the clinch boards (i hope thats the right terminology?) shound i fully epoxy with west system or use something with more elasticity in it due to the direrent dirrection in shrinking and expantion. (will this break the lap boards?)

[captaindan]

Now how do you start a new thread? just a newbe

[James McMullen]

Captaindan, the way to start your own new thread on this is first to go to the Forum page, then click on Building/Repair, and then Post New Thread at the top of the list.

Go do this, and then get ready for your tongue-lashing because you are screwing up big time right from the get-go. I would love to help you be successful in building your very own new boat, but you are off to a substantially misguided and error-fraught start, amigo.

[spirit]

I was next door at the Wooden Boat school when John Harris taught a sizable class how to build several of his Northeaster dories. I was totally impressed by his beautiful design and the ease of construction, using his pre-cut lapstitch-panels. No beveling was required, and I saw no epoxy drips. I don't see how you could build a lighter boat of this size...