Moving my 54" Colin Archer "TUVA" to Auckland,NZ from Norway

[Espen Odberg]

I am emigrating to NZ and want to sell or transport my Colin Archer to Auckland.

Is there a harbour where they welcome such boats there?
Is it a wooden boat wharf in the area?
If I could call somebody to discuss the possibilities for both repair and harbour place I will appreciate it.

Espen Odberg tel + 47 22355443 Oslo Norway

[Espen Odberg]

Check YouTube link http://youtu.be/8NyoragWy10
This is a video of my boat Tuva

[StevenBauer]

Great video and great boat! I couldn't imagine parting with her. I'm sure some Kiwis will be along soon with some info for you.


Steven

[PeterSibley]

Auckland is wonderful home for wooden boats , search the forum for John B and contact him. Use the advanced search function at the top of the page .

She's a beautiful boat !!

[Espen Odberg]

Thanks Guys.
I tried to search for John B but was not possible due to "TOO long connection time" Contact administrator etc...
Could you help me with a name or tel number to John B please?
Espen

[PeterSibley]

Espen, open this thread,http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...sic&highlight=. click on on John's name, click send a Private Message.

[CapnJ2ds]

There's a section of Auckland waterfront about to be set aside especially for classic wooden boats; it will be (at least in part) administered by the Classic Yacht Association. As above, John B is your best bet for contact.

[Espen Odberg]

There's a section of Auckland waterfront about to be set aside especially for classic wooden boats; it will be (at least in part) administered by the Classic Yacht Association. As above, John B is your best bet for contact.

That sounds great:
I visitesd Auckland in November and I saw only one wooden yacht.

[Espen Odberg]

I am also moving my old bikes over.(Vincent,Harley,Indian.) Any kiwi with the same passion?

[Paul Pless]

I am also moving my old bikes over.(Vincent,Harley,Indian.)

You are more than welcome to ship those to Michigan for safe-keeping. Search the forum for a member named Katherine. She'll be able to help you out!

[StevenBauer]

Have you seen this site: http://www.classicyacht.org.nz/


Steven

[CapnJ2ds]

I am also moving my old bikes over.(Vincent,Harley,Indian.) Any kiwi with the same passion?

See the movie "The World's Fastest Indian"! The woods are full of 'em over here - bikes and enthusiasts.

[CapnJ2ds]

That sounds great:
I visitesd Auckland in November and I saw only one wooden yacht.

Musta bin lookin' in the wrong places. Wooden boats comin' out our ears here. I'm writing this in the cabin of a 52 year old wooden launch, there's another of similar age in the next berth. We have a racing fleet of yachts that are in some cases over 100. Even the flashier marinas have at least some wooden boats - wonder where you looked?

[Hwyl]

It would be a great sail, I'd go Westabout through the Panama

[Chip-skiff]

You'd likely want to find the marina most convenient to your residence. Westhaven is large and near the Harbour Bridge. There are also slips in the Viaduct Basin area, likely expensive. Farther east is Okahu Bay, where the Royal Akarana Yacht Club is located. There are other moorings and ramps in the mouth of the Tamaki River (e.g. Half Moon Bay), and more along the north shore of the Waitemata Harbour (e.g. Devonport, Bayswater, etc.)

John Bertenshaw (JohnB) should be able to advise you. Steveh is another owner/restorer in the Auckland area. Another likely source of good counsel is snow(Alan H). There's a group of Kiwi yachters dedicated to restoring, preserving, and racing classic wood yachts. I learned to sail in Auckland, and can't think of a better place to relocate with your boat.

[John B]

Hi Espen, Although there is the new basin for classic boats which has been announced, it comes with some serious hooks and is a whole new philosophy for local govt in Auckland. The city is historically completely uninterested in our classic boat heritage and there have been no concessions cost wise or other in the past. This new area has room for 14 boats IIRC, and they will be NZ classics only, and they will 'revolve' with other boats and have to clear the area for extended periods each year. In other words , they'll all need other moorings anyway..

So choices for your boat will be to look for a swing mooring or to use one of the local marinas. Cost wise all the city marinas are about the same and for your size boat ( which seems to me is unlikely to fit in a 14 M berth,) you might be looking in excess of NZ$1000 per month .
West harbour would be the least expensive marina in the city. Its more remote from the cruising grounds by an hour say and has some draft issues. The berths are very cheap to buy but I'm unsure of rental cost, but that would seem to me to be the best option cost wise.

Have you bought a house,? because that would have a bearing on where you might keep the boat. Lovely looking boat , well sorted for shorthanding. Its hard to get scale sometimes but she doesn't look like 54 ft to me , is that a measurement including bowsprit? If she can house her bowsprit and she's more like 45 ft she might fit in a 14 M berth. 'They', the marina management here ,will generally not accept any part of a boat extending out past the berth size.

Oh , and there are some seriously talented wooden boatbuilders here quite capable of any imaginable repair or other work. I could give you a list of several you could talk to.

[Espen Odberg]

Thank a lot ,all of you that have replied.
TUVA is 16,35 meters long,5 meter wide and draft is 2,3 meter.
Bowsprit is retractable .(6 meters) total active lenghth 22 meters

I will be working at Lynfield veterinary clinic.I plan to rent or buy a warehouse 200 sqm with sleepingfascilities .Bikes/tools ((laithe etc) will arrive in october.
I arrive in august. The boat will arrive when I have found a place for her. Either I find some sailors in New Zealand that can sail her (Panama) or I send her on top of a cargoship.Price of the latter solution is 90.000 us dollars.
I need to make a new "tent" and change the dollboards to teak.Otherwise the boat is in very good chape. Cupper below waterline.
I have made her possible to handle singehanded. Electrical winches etc.
espen

[Espen Odberg]

John,who do I contact to buy a place in West harbour please?
Espen

[purri]

Espen, A magnificient craft! What are the bike models? (BTW I have a 1944 U model Harley and sidecar) but others in the past and NZ has a great history of Vincents and competition.

[Espen Odberg]

I also have a 1942 ul model.Did serve in WW2 in South Afrika. Military
143 Knuckle (service ww2 in Guantanamo ,shore patrol military
some 1936 Harley VLH models police
1935 VLDD some
1934 VLDD
1963 KRTT racer
1948 WR racer
Vincen BLack Shadow modified with starter.1300cc caferacer (Homebuilt with Herve Hamon in france.
A 1934 OHV Hillclimber (peashooter heads on VL bottom)
1974 Kawasaki H2
1990 Harley Fatboy
I guess that is it.
1951 Indian Chief

[skuthorp]

I should imagine there'll be several bike organisations ready to welcome you aboard the shaky isles Espen! Let alone the WB fraternity!

[peter osberg]

Thanks for the sailing video link, the best I have seen, beautiful boat.. good luck with the move.
Peter

[John B]

Hi Espen,`that .35 is the problem because although you may get away with that at West Harbour or perhaps even Bayswater you definitely would not at Westhaven or Orakei or HMB, so that means a 18 M marina berth.
18 and 16 M is less common and under pressure as people have bought bigger boats in more recent years.

With one exception , all Marinas work on either straight rental or buy/ lease. So if you're buying , the key cost info is
1. purchase price.
2.Transfer fee
3. body corporate/ maintenance charge.
4. Length of lease.
5. future liabilities as a berth holder. I'd want to know more about that for West harbour, Gulf harbour and Bayswater.


So here's the rundown as far as I see it., and this is the site to see marina listings for sale or for rent. http://www.marinaberths.com/


if you can get away with the 16M.......
Westhaven is the best city central spot but is controlled by the city . I don't believe there's much in the way of 16M marinas for sale or rent. $120KNZ for a 16 wouldn't surprise me and its a lease so that might only be until say 2026 or so.

West Harbour is shallow and has some history of problems with dredging. Ownership is very cheap if you can find the 16 but you need to check out any hooks with the body corporate charge, they might be high for marina maintenance.
Orakei is new and more like $250k or more for 16.

Bayswater is relatively cheap to buy and draft is good. Its on the Devonport side of the harbour and you might consider that hard to access. Its also less secure as it doesn't have a proper sea wall and becomes a bit feral in hard SW winds. But it might be a good option for your size boat. I see several 18 M berths available there around the 60K -70k mark.. might actually be the best option.

Pine harbour, draft/ dredging issues but much better than West harbour and more remote but good if you live a bit south. Under pressure at 16m, they are few and far between... 130 k say.


and lastly, Gulf harbour which is on the Whangaparoa peninsular say an hour out of Auckland. Great location but traffic can be an issue getting to it by road. Unless you live north.

and the wild card, the viaduct basin. I don't know how that works and wouldn't be there myself anyway because it has a pedestrian bridge which needs to be raised for access.

here's the local ebay equivalent

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boat.../marina-berths

that'll give you some more price ideas. I hope that helps.

[Espen Odberg]

Thanks John. Really valuable info for me.I owe you one.Espen

[Espen Odberg]

Thanks Peter.
If I pay 90.000 us to bring the boat to Auckland.
Will it be possible to sell it?
My wife-who stay in Norway until I can prove that NZ is better than Norway-does not like the boat.
I will work hard with training vets at the clinic,I have my bike interest,but I am not sure that I am able to handle all the THINGS any more. I am 52 but feel I need to find a life with less stuff and more content.....
I had passenger certificate for closed waters around oslo for some years.Wine,beer and shrimps.Nasty business with this boat.
Should I bring her over?

Any ideas?
espen

[John B]

Anything will sell at a price but its very common feeling here that it is a buyers market for boats in general and that all used boats have dropped significantly in value over the last 4 or 5 years of economic recession and or flatlining.

[Espen Odberg]

Hi John.
May I have your email please?
There are a few things I would prefere to discuss privately.
If this is not conveniant I respect that.
Best regards
Espen odberg
Post@avivet.no

[CapnJ2ds]

West harbour marina = Westpark Marina. It's probably the handiest to Lynfield, and there are the type of small industrial units with attached accommodation that you have in mind within reasonable travelling distance also.

Westpark does have some dredging issues, although berths in the size you want are not much affected by this. The approach channel is well marked, with adequate water except at the upper end at low tide. You might not be able to use the channel at low tide, but shouldn't have a problem otherwise. Some people have told me that there is barely a meter in the last few hundred metres of the channel at low tide, but I've been using it for eleven years and never found less than 2 meters, as long as I stayed in the middle of the channel.

Your vessel would fit a 16m berth here; all the berths are longer than their nominal lengths, e.g. my own 14m berth is actually 15.2m - I've measured it. Likewise with beam; the nominal maximum beam for a 16m berth is 4.35m, but the actual width is almost 2 pontoons - 3m. The power cat in the 16m berth across the pier from me is a bit over 5m and fits in ok.

Note that the marina is currently up-grading the power supply to the piers. G-pier, where the 16m berths are, has had the work completed, so all berths now have a dedicated power outlet. (Wasn't the case previously.)

Have checked with the marina office, and they have no 16m berths currently for rent and a waiting list for them. This would mean having to buy one, though berths here are very cheap. The marina has 6 x 16m berths for sale through their office, at $NZ 30,000, 29,000, 26,000, 25,000, 24,000 and - wait for it! 12,000. Asking prices are set by the current berth-holders, which sort of explains the disparity - the $12,000 one is in the middle section of the pier, so I assume the owner must really want to sell. I haven't checked on "TradeMe" or elsewhere, but there may well be others offered for private sale, i.e. not through the company.

Now the nasty bits: the annual OPEX (OPerating EXpense - "bodycorp" equivalent) for a 16m berth is $NZ 7390.67. It costs slightly more to pay monthly; $662.08. If you buy privately the vendor must pay the transfer fee of 2 1/2% of the purchase price. Buying through the marina company is the same with the addition of another 2 1/2% commission which also (as far as I can ascertain) must be paid by the vendor.

A wild card: there are two end-of-pier double berths for sale. These run across the outer ends of the piers, and can be used either as two berths or one extra long one. These berths certainly have no draught problems, and are very easy to get into. The one on the end of G-pier is 32m - an 18m and a 14m. It's offered at - gasp - $NZ 180,00. With your bowsprit run in you could berth in the 18 m end and rent out the other. Not positive about the OPEX for the whole shebang but it would be in the region of $NZ 16,00 per annum. The other one is on the end of E-pier; 22m or a 12m and a 14m. Asking price is $NZ 70,000, and I'm not sure what total OPEX is, but it would be in proportion.

Hope the above is of some help.

John (Not B )

[John B]

Thats brilliant Cap. It was that body corp/ opex that I was unsure of, I suspect thats 50% more or so than most of the other marinas. Westpark!

[AnalogKid]

Hi Espen,

I've nothing to add regarding your boat, but I have jumped through the necessary hoops to import a vehicle when I moved to NZ nearly 8 years ago. In my case it was a Land Rover and I had to do a lot of work on it to get it registered for the road, even though it was a perfectly road-worthy vehicle being used as my daily driver in the UK. I suspect that the rules may be more lenient for classic vehicles, but make sure you check out the pertinent customs and transport agency rules. It would be a shame to ship those classics over only to find out they'd fall foul of a rule book, and you need to factor in the import GST (tax) and on-road costs.

Good luck with the move,
Andy.

[CapnJ2ds]

Thats brilliant Cap. It was that body corp/ opex that I was unsure of, I suspect thats 50% more or so than most of the other marinas. Westpark!

As far as I know, Westpark is in the upper bracket for OPEX, but isn't by any means the dearest. I do know some are cheaper, but not, I think, by half.

[John B]

Waaal, 50 % on a base figure isn't the equivalent of cheaper by half in reverse is it though Cap.

I dont have any of the opex's to hand except one for gulf harbour listed as $3800 for a 17M berth. x 50 % is $5700 .
At $7400 at westpark, that reinforces my view that the opex is well up to mitigate the extra dredging maintenance in that marina.
Thats all really interesting to me because I'm often wondering what to do going forward myself as far as a berth is concerned. Buying a Westhaven berth has never ever proved viable in a financial sense, its geared to cost more than renting. You'd only buy for security of berthage contract. Westpark probably would be and gulf harbour certainly would be, but Gulf is a bit remote for me the way we use the boat.

But whats important to Espen is to be aware of the hooks and that Opex/ body corp charge and the transfer fee of a couple or three k plus the very valid comments made by the antidigitalkid about duty and GST on the import. I think between us we've given him some pretty good on the ground information to make his decision with.

[Phil Y]

At 54" just pack it in a box, post it over, and keep it on the sideboard at home

[purri]

Espen,

Erring on the side of caution I'd suggest you keep the boat in her home port until you "suss out" the local scene. FWIW the larger the classic vessel the harder to sell and there really is a law of diminishing marginal returns these parts. If necessary a local sale your way should be much easier to achieve than over here.

As for smaller vessels then a vessel abt 35 ft (10.5m) is probably the optimum RoI. NZ has a thriving classic craft scene as noted.

Good luck

[Espen Odberg]

Thanks John for your efforts.I plan to arrive within a month and will check all this info in person.
As it seems now captain Garret Hughes will sail her over for me.
Then I can join some legs from Panama. I can feel exitement in my veins!
Espen

West harbour marina = Westpark Marina. It's probably the handiest to Lynfield, and there are the type of small industrial units with attached accommodation that you have in mind within reasonable travelling distance also.

Westpark does have some dredging issues, although berths in the size you want are not much affected by this. The approach channel is well marked, with adequate water except at the upper end at low tide. You might not be able to use the channel at low tide, but shouldn't have a problem otherwise. Some people have told me that there is barely a meter in the last few hundred metres of the channel at low tide, but I've been using it for eleven years and never found less than 2 meters, as long as I stayed in the middle of the channel.

Your vessel would fit a 16m berth here; all the berths are longer than their nominal lengths, e.g. my own 14m berth is actually 15.2m - I've measured it. Likewise with beam; the nominal maximum beam for a 16m berth is 4.35m, but the actual width is almost 2 pontoons - 3m. The power cat in the 16m berth across the pier from me is a bit over 5m and fits in ok.

Note that the marina is currently up-grading the power supply to the piers. G-pier, where the 16m berths are, has had the work completed, so all berths now have a dedicated power outlet. (Wasn't the case previously.)

Have checked with the marina office, and they have no 16m berths currently for rent and a waiting list for them. This would mean having to buy one, though berths here are very cheap. The marina has 6 x 16m berths for sale through their office, at $NZ 30,000, 29,000, 26,000, 25,000, 24,000 and - wait for it! 12,000. Asking prices are set by the current berth-holders, which sort of explains the disparity - the $12,000 one is in the middle section of the pier, so I assume the owner must really want to sell. I haven't checked on "TradeMe" or elsewhere, but there may well be others offered for private sale, i.e. not through the company.

Now the nasty bits: the annual OPEX (OPerating EXpense - "bodycorp" equivalent) for a 16m berth is $NZ 7390.67. It costs slightly more to pay monthly; $662.08. If you buy privately the vendor must pay the transfer fee of 2 1/2% of the purchase price. Buying through the marina company is the same with the addition of another 2 1/2% commission which also (as far as I can ascertain) must be paid by the vendor.

A wild card: there are two end-of-pier double berths for sale. These run across the outer ends of the piers, and can be used either as two berths or one extra long one. These berths certainly have no draught problems, and are very easy to get into. The one on the end of G-pier is 32m - an 18m and a 14m. It's offered at - gasp - $NZ 180,00. With your bowsprit run in you could berth in the 18 m end and rent out the other. Not positive about the OPEX for the whole shebang but it would be in the region of $NZ 16,00 per annum. The other one is on the end of E-pier; 22m or a 12m and a 14m. Asking price is $NZ 70,000, and I'm not sure what total OPEX is, but it would be in proportion.

Hope the above is of some help.

John (Not B )

[Espen Odberg]

Yes, I am overwhelmed.Not used to receive free advice.
Must be a hook somewhere.I guess I find out where when I buy you guys a beer later this year.
Espen

[Steveh]

Hi Espen, welcome to New Zealand. Most everything has been well outlined previously, personally I had no ides of the hidden costs of buying and owning a marina berth. There is the very cheap option but it will most likely require travel time and rowing to your boat rather than stepping onboard from the comforts of a marina berth. It really comes down to your sailing requirements and how much you spend out on the water. For someone like John who spends every second weekend out, the marina option is the only way also John has done his time rowing out to a pile mooring for many years.

I keep Ngatira (a 1904 gaff cutter) on a swing mooring, annual fee $120 with servicing costs every two years of around $300 - $400. Buy price around the $1500 - $2000 mark. There is generally a waiting list and this will vary greatly on location and suitability but you will find by contacting the local harbour master there will be moorings available to rent from existing owners. Dispenses with the purchase cost and you will most likely be asked to help pay towards servicing costs.. My mooring is located north in the Mahurangi and I live about 1/2 an hour from it. Advantages: 1.very cheap. 2.saving at least 4-5 hours sail time from Auckland to cruising vicinity (1 hr drive from Lynfield) Disadvantages: 1.Distance (drive time) to mooring, 2.rowing/motoring with dinghy to mooring. 3.loading and offloading a bit of a hassle. 4. underwater fouling faster than in a marina situation. 5. no haul out facilities. 6. No shore power.

Certainly worth considering in my opinion. I don't have any knowledge of mooring facilities closer to Auckland but there certainly are many areas in and around Auckland.

[Steveh]

Espen, here are a couple of links of local regattas (Auckland - Hauraki gulf) that take place each year. There's also a 'Tall ships' regatta held in the Bay of Islands every New year. About 130NM north from Auckland.

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...lassic+regatta

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...lassic+regatta

[Espen Odberg]

Thanks Steve.
I have tried this a few years. Main problem is that this requires weekly charging. (pumps, fans ,o2-03 converter ) and general loss of energy.
So either a constant worry, or a local guy in charge that can start a generator,check ropes/chain /waterlevel etc.
Do you have a problem with theft from boats out of guarded harbours?. Of cours you have-but how significant is it?
Espen

[John B]

Its like most situations.....Some areas are worse than others Espen. And then you'll get one guy who will make an area seem like a crimewave is in process just like with house burglaries. I imagine that Steve's area is really quite safe because people know each other and there are houses overlooking all the moorings, whereas a city moored boat could easily be boarded without notice.
Although ( as an aside and as an old memory resurfaces) When those idiots bombed the Rainbow Warrior in the 1980's , they were caught because a local group of boaties sick of break ins were watching the moored boats at night.

[CapnJ2ds]

As John says, worse in some areas than others - usually sporadically. Rumours of theft go round Westpark Marina from time to time, but mostly they're just that - rumours. In fact we have very little trouble with theft here, perhaps because of the high proportion of live-aboards - we like to look after our own.

[CapnJ2ds]

Dropped in to the brokerage for a coffee this morning to find the guys were watching the video of "Tuva" sailing that you posted. Gather things are progressing quite quickly.