What do you do for a living and is the business doing well?

[John Bell]

My perspective is we're on leading edge of a boom in chemical manufacturing here in the US thanks to the low cost of natural gas and natural gas liquid feedstock. This is afforded by the new technology for extracting 'tight' gas from shale formations aka fracking.

Lots of projects for new chemical plants to take advantage of this low-cost feedstock have been announced and steel is starting to go in the ground. It'll be 2014 before much of this becomes apparent, but mark my words it's coming.

[Garret]

Conclusions drawn from responses to this thread regarding general economic conditions will closely resemble concussions.

Says a man used to beating his head against the wall?

I agree completely, but I do find it interesting that not only are the responses here mostly positive, they are for most of the folks I know who are "smart enough" to not deal with wood boats as well.

[David G]

Anyone notice a little disconnect? :-)

For most people in this thread business is roaring, everyone is busy, more orders than we can handle, etc. etc.

Look outside of this thread and it's dying economy, all manufacturing outsourced away from the US, unemployment stuck at "high", etc.

Kaa

Your reading of the 'general conditions' expressed here is a bit more positive than mine.

[BrianM]

I'm another Mechanical Engineer who spends most of his time working as a Manufacturing/QA Engineer for a small company which caters to the outdoors industry and our armed services. We are buried in work associated with growing demand which is a great problem to have.

Better, we are bringing some tooling and work back to American factories because of the instability now and in the future that is China.
(American factories have actually BEATEN China on pricing for some important items....!)

Bad news is that those American factories can't find young talent in Tool and Die making to service those tools.

But there is hope for the future:

My 15 year old wants to get into Engineering and I'm backing him to the hilt.

Our local High School has a 4 year Machining Program with 1st Class Equipment run by retired Mare Island Naval Shipyard Machinist, Dan Sunia.
Manufacturing Technology Program

Petaluma High's Manufacturing Technology program is the only NIMS (National Institute for Metalworking Skills) accredited high school program in the state of California. Dan Sunia is the Manufacturing Technology Instructor, and won a 2010 Golden Bell Award in the category of “Partnerships and Collaboratives” for his program, “Engineering Design and Apprentice Trades Skills.” The Golden Bell award is given by the CSBA (California School Boards Association).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WEe_5Y5Qdc

[2MeterTroll]

our little enterprise is doing pretty well; we are growing and at a rate that we can handle. folks want to spend less time working and more time enjoying so we are doing OK. I suspect that we will be real busy this next year as the cost of tax cuts and gutted programs sink in this winter.

lots of cold folks in the world so i dont think we are going to see the end of need in my lifetime.

[Rich Jones]

I was a very busy Home Improvement Contractor until a career ending injury to my left shoulder put my carpentry career to an end in November of 2007. I did kitchens and baths and high end trim work. I did all the work myself with a helper once in a while. Electric and plumbing was sub contracted.
It was about this time that the bubble started to burst and construction went downhill. I tried getting jobs with other firms as project manager or sales. But, since everything was on the downslide, nothing came about.
Then I started learning about age discrimination. I was 55 years old and trying to find something out of my field. Nobody would even talk to me. With 35 years of construction knowledge, I couldn't even get a job at Home Depot. Now, that's sinking pretty low!
Luckily, my wife has an excellent pension and we've always spent wisely. So, right now, life is fine.

[MiddleAgesMan]

I was a very busy Home Improvement Contractor until a career ending injury to my left shoulder put my carpentry career to an end in November of 2007. I did kitchens and baths and high end trim work. I did all the work myself with a helper once in a while. Electric and plumbing was sub contracted.
It was about this time that the bubble started to burst and construction went downhill. I tried getting jobs with other firms as project manager or sales. But, since everything was on the downslide, nothing came about.
Then I started learning about age discrimination. I was 55 years old and trying to find something out of my field. Nobody would even talk to me. With 35 years of construction knowledge, I couldn't even get a job at Home Depot. Now, that's sinking pretty low!
Luckily, my wife has an excellent pension and we've always spent wisely. So, right now, life is fine.

I'm amazed at the number of cabinetmakers here on the WBF. I had my own shop in the 80s (listed in the INC 500 in 1987) then sold out and was semi-retired (at the age of 39) for several years. I moved on to the steel working business so I could build my 42' steel Gazelle, sailed the islands, got a divorce, then returned to south Florida where I worked in the super high-end cabinet business until I wore out my welcome. I continued in the cabinet business back home in Savannah for a while then took a sales position with the largest custom cabinet door manufacturer in the nation. After several years my 3 state territory had grown to 7 states.

Business started to suck big time in 2008 but at my last sales conference in March of 2009 we were told the company would not survive without more sales, so our positions were secure.

Two months later I got a call telling me my territory was going to be split up between three other reps and I was out of a job.

The chemotherapy I started the same month I lost my job sapped my energy so maybe it was a blessing in disguise but I sure could have used another year of base plus bonus to tide me over through the period of high medical bills. I survived thanks to Obama's extension of COBRA benefits (to nine months) but then I had to find another solution because the $450 monthy premium was unaffordable on unemployment benefits.

So I got married and now enjoy coverage from my yf's health insurance. She likes to tell people we had to get married.

Since losing my job I've done a little design work and some software work for a company that wanted to start cutting cabinet parts with their CNC machine. As of today, there doesn't appear to any prospect for anything similar but I guess I could probably get a part time job as a WalMart greeter.

[Paul Girouard]

I remodel and /or build new homes. The higher end work has dried up almost totally. We've been taking any thing we can get from seismic upgrading a 117 year old building that started as a department store and then in the 40 or 50's was remodeled into a bowling alley. It had been closed for 15 years , so it was a mess. Next job bigger job (relative term bigger ) is a similar upgrade to a church steeple, and a "upper" roof above the existing roof , about 8' above , and add some lateral bracing. Gonna be some heavy lifting and lots of stairs to deal with , but it's work.

We have taken jobs we wouldn't have been interested in this past year, the good work ran out about 2 years ago , and the places we've done have been lower and lower end type of jobs. The people have had champagne tastes , but have had cheap beer budgets, there has been some painful lesson learned buy management .

We've had our health insurance cut out , and lost out vacation time . We never had paid holidays so we didn't lose those

Things don't look very promising from my view point , the boss said he's bidding on some "better" jobs , but so far we haven't really signed any contracts that I'm aware of.

My only positive is that I'll be the last working carpenter to get laid off they tell me. I'm a freak combo carpenter / cabinet / furniture maker. So my versatility, good looks , and cheerful attitude ( LOL some of those are true , OK, well one is true ,) are what keeps me employed.

I've had one job offer with a different company , the wage was the same and they offered no benefits, it MIGHT have been a bit closer to home , but in construction there's no way to really tell where the "next" job will be. So I decided to stay with the devil I knew rather than be the new guy with mad skills with the other company.

IMO we are headed to worst conditions , few people in my area are working 40 hours per week , week after week. The guys I talk with at the lumber yard are all having a hard time keep busy.

[Monkey Butler]

I work for a small/medium sized industrial distributor. I have a background in customer services and sales but now oversee implementing projects that tend to involve sales, marketing and IT.

Our business has seen positive growth this past year but the life cycle of our customers troubles me. Everything from an Evergreen Solar who went boom, bust, yeah sorry about that inventory we promised to take, to a century old heavy maufacturing company acquired by a multi-national who drives the profit out of everything but eventually moves the operation elswhere.

This isn't anything new but it does seem like it's getting harder to keep the pipeline full.

[MiddleAgesMan]

...IMO we are headed to worst conditions , few people in my area are working 40 hours per week , week after week. The guys I talk with at the lumber yard are all having a hard time keep busy.

Things will certainly be much worse if Obama loses in November. I hope you figure out which side of the bread the butter goes on.

I'm telling my sons (ages 38 and 35) to prepare for another Great Depression if the republicans aren't defeated. Time to head for the hills...or the sea.

[Paul Girouard]

Things will certainly be much worse if Obama loses in November. I hope you figure out which side of the bread the butter goes on.

I'm telling my sons (ages 38 and 35) to prepare for another Great Depression if the republicans aren't defeated. Time to head for the hills...or the sea.

Humm , you think bread or toast has only one side for butter??? Last I checked we rarely build houses for people who make less than the carpenter's swinging hammers. Maybe in cases the client makes less per year than the GC , but in my experience that is the exception , not the rule.

After three years things are still going the wrong way , IMO. Jimmy Carter here we come! Time to quit blaming Bush and change things IF that was what was wrong, thing is Obama been doing the same things Bush set in place, even wants to extend the Bush tax cuts , which really are no longer "cuts" but are the current tax rates. So IF G-Dub-ya was so wrong , why is it that Obama's following his lead? Change , hell there ain't been much change, for the better, that I've seen.

YMMV.

[pipefitter]

IMO we are headed to worst conditions , few people in my area are working 40 hours per week , week after week. The guys I talk with at the lumber yard are all having a hard time keep busy.

I know this isn't your first rodeo with circumstances such as these. When it got like this for construction in the past, I always ended up in commercial construction, doing high end points of architectural interest and the money was better than residential for less hours, climate controlled half of the time at least and a low incidence of illegal labor. We did mall stores and grocery stores, the university remodels, banks, schools etc.

When I was doing the mall stores, I could count on being approached by other contractors needing store fronts completed all of a sudden like after hours for double pay or name your price nearly as often. I had to travel a bit at times but per diem was a money maker for someone as used to living humble as I was.

Bonuses for getting jobs done on schedule or ahead and sometimes from multiple contractors and a lot of pinch hitter work for late nights and weekends.

I don't know, some people can't work in a hard hat environment for it possibly being out of their comfort zone, but it always got me thru lean times and the money was good and fast.

It's what I will most likely get back into while funding my own business on the side. I tried giving someone else a chance with my future, against my better judgement but I was burnt on construction and a 9-5 sounded like a good idea at the time and it has paid the bills for 13 years. Still, the urge from my piecework and hustle days has been nagging at me and for briefly forgetting how good I actually was at squeezing the most from a sorry economy.

I really don't have anymore confidence in the clowns who are running the country now than I ever did, and it was always the wiser choice to just ignore the bs entirely and do what I know.

You do excellent work. People like you are always needed in a commercial environment and you could walk in pretty much with top wages for a lot less sweat. Perhaps you have already been down this road or it is part of your every day life but just thought I would add it, while convincing myself at the same time.

[Paul Girouard]

There's not much commercial work in our area. Yes, I've done quite a bit of commercial work in the past , banks, Doctor's offices , clinics. A couple of our better jobs we're bidding on are commercial jobs , a pretty large marina remodel / complex for one.

We just missed out on a restaurant and a big Indian reservation fish hatchery complex , those two would have been nice to get, one right in town the other about 1 1/2 hour drive away.

Malls and store fronts around here are few and far between and most are close to empty. Commercial space is wide open , plenty to pick from if you're looking to rent or buy , but few are doing either around here.

[Bill R]

Broadcast engineer- I design, build and maintain radio stations. Business isn't great across the industry. My staff has been cut in half, pay cut, and my company was just forced into bankruptcy, sent to auction, broken up and sold. Fortunately, I landed on my feet up here and the potential with the new owners looks good. The industry as a whole is struggling- Ad buys (which is where we earn our revenue) are the fist things cut by companies when the economy slows down, and the last thing that come back when the economy picks up. I see a little light, but don't expect much for a while.

I am also a maker of wooden things (with some steel stuff thrown in). That has been doing fairly well. Last year was my best year ever, and this year has already exceeded that. I'm not busy enough to leave the corporate world, but sleep is becoming a luxury, and I have been drinking a lot of coffee. My boat hasn't seen the water yet this year, and it doesn't look like it will.

[Tom3]

I'm a micro sized design build co. on the coast of Maine, and business right now is the best I've ever seen. But I am extremely lucky and have found a niche that fits my ability to do a broad range, design work through the completed project. The projects I've been involved in the last 3 years are also at optimum size and scope for my skills.

Luckily, I've turned a few others away, so I've had somewhat of a safety net.

This seems to be fairly normal in our small zip code, at least in most areas, IF, you have a marketable skill that's required by the smaller pool of clients available today.

New homes are out(near totally), but I've moved away from them as I've downsized over the last decade+.

In some ways, I've returned to the very beginnings of my self employed lifetime mostly building. Hiring few to no employees and instead using small subcontractors(my size, often just a father and child.

Last week a larger landscape firm(100+ employees in season), softly got a foot in the door of my current project which involves quite a bit of landscape around a pool they're installing.

First, they got their landscape architect on site. In no time at all I watched an entirely different personality and scope begin to grow into the ongoing design process. A lag time between design and decision began to grow, and effect the projects progress. Pricing became more of a multi step process as well.

Finally, the landscape architect and the department head came to the site, with drawings and figures. I spied them out of the corner of my eye,.... No one from that large firm had inquired if the owner was interested in tripling the cost of the pool installation with ground work around it. Over 100k.

This just took us full circle to about where we were originally, and everything we needed has already been budgeted into my estimates.

This makes me look better but I'm more worried about the bigger firm. There's a lot jobs with that company, a company built on a previous scale of activity of several decades. I'd just watched that firm waste a few thousand dollars trying to sell something my client didn't want anyway(?)

That scale of new housing(and related work like large landscaping projects), has shrunk around here in the last 10 or so years.

Everything is different today. Small landscapers, 1 to 6 heads, are doing well, "gardeners" we call them now. This sort of change in sizing has been evolving for the last 10 years.

I've been lucky but I'm not gloating. When this long downturn finally comes around(it's not my first, not at all), there will be a different playing field for many industries, I think. I also think it will be all for the better but I worry as many will be left in the dust.

[Norman Bernstein]

My 15 year old wants to get into Engineering and I'm backing him to the hilt.

I love Engineering.... I think I was born to do it, and never considered doing anything else.

I'm not sure, if I had a son, though, that I'd be so quick to recommend it as a career. For some people, like me, the liabilities and disadvantages are overweighed by the love of the art, the craft, and the science of engineering......

....but I also have known, and know, a number of younger engineers who became disillusioned with the profession, after a while. For one thing, the profession is narrowing.... there's extremely high demand for 'specialists' who can do any number of highly specific (and very narrow) things; in electrical engineering, for example, people who can do VHDL, Verilog, DSP, RF design, etc., are very highly sought after... but generalists with broad experience are not. If the person is content in their narrow specialty, great.... but the entire field is a lot wider than that, and doing essentially the same thing, year after year, can lead to stagnation and burnout.

One young engineer who I interviewed, while I was a senior staff engineer at Analog Devices, was extraordinarily bright, and did some terrific work in his first 5-10 years.... but after the company changed, and he was more or less forced to attempt to become an semiconductor design engineer, he became disillusioned, and gave up his career as a design engineer to become an assistant editor for the company's monthly magazine. Another very bright young guy, working for a biomed company that I contracted at, got really tired of being treated so poorly by management.... and gave up what should have been a superb engineering career to go into marketing.

I think one of the stumbling blocks is indeed management... the dreaded 'MBA's' who, in too many cases, are virtually the definition of arrogance. During the last management shakeup at my former company, the divisional manager was replaced by a guy whose job it was to basically sell the division, meaning that it was clear that most of us engineers would either be compelled to change our careers and give up a great deal of our experience in order to do something very different.... or leave the company. That year was truly horrible.... local management was condescending and even abusive toward us. Some people accepted the forced change, others, like me, finally left... and at least a half dozen promising young engineers more or less left the profession for distantly related jobs.

In any event, I don't mean to be a wet blanket; many people pursue professions, irrespective of whatever disadvantages, because of the love of the profession. If your son is one of them (like me, and probably you), then I wish him, and you, luck.

On the other hand, if he wants to be rich, send him to Harvard for an MBA... 40% of Harvard graduates go into the financial industry, and the starting salaries are around $225,000

[Dave Wright]

I love Engineering.... I think I was born to do it, and never considered doing anything else.

I'm not sure, if I had a son, though, that I'd be so quick to recommend it as a career. For some people, like me, the liabilities and disadvantages are overweighed by the love of the art, the craft, and the science of engineering......

...On the other hand, if he wants to be rich, send him to Harvard for an MBA... 40% of Harvard graduates go into the financial industry, and the starting salaries are around $225,000

Engineering can provide a comfortable salary, reasonable occupational "respect," mental stimulation, and a place to work out of the weather. Continually having to solve problems with no immediate apparent solutions might be a wonderful challenge to some; I found it uncomfortably stressful even though I knew that I would always come up with solutions. I planned on retiring early right from the start and did so according to plan.

Sending your kids to Harvard to become rich is unrealistic nonsense for the most part, and I'm sure you mentioned it facetiously. The real secret, which most folks fail to realize, is that you can become wealthy in the engineering profession and many others, blue collar endeavors too, simply by living on one half or less of your take home salary from the very first day of your employment. The proof of living on less is evident in the many families who are living on a fraction of their former incomes now that their jobs have "disappeared." You need to live on less while employed and plan for hard times, and you'll almost always wind up with abundance.

We've always had wonderful opportunities in this country, irrespective of what occupation one choooses. Unfortunately this escapes many folks until it's too late.

[Norman Bernstein]

Sending your kids to Harvard to become rich is unrealistic nonsense for the most part, and I'm sure you mentioned it facetiously.

Not so much. It is absolutely true that, for those with the ambition to become part of the 1%, the only virtually assured way is to get that Harvard MBA, and work in financial services. I'm not advocating it, just stating what I think is obvious fact....

In good economic times, and with the right specialties, an engineer can do quite well... but will always be subject to career hitches and reversals... and will NOT always get thier deserved respect. You're aboslutely right about living well below your means, though. I always believed I did, and invested to the maximum via 401(k) and IRA's... but the expected growth that I achieved in the 80's and 90's didn't continue through the 00's up to now, so I'm far short of where I believed I would be at this point in my career.

I guess the big difference is that, even at the ripe old age of 60, I still love doing engineering work, don't feel 'old' at all, and could easily see myself continuing to work to age 70 or more.

[Dave Wright]

I guess the big difference is that, even at the ripe old age of 60, I still love doing engineering work, don't feel 'old' at all, and could easily see myself continuing to work to age 70 or more.

Ten years of contract engineering work with heavy overtime and frugal living could result in a substantial financial mass. But the time to do it is at age 30 not age 60!

[Norman Bernstein]

Ten years of contract engineering work with heavy overtime and frugal living could result in a substantial financial mass. But the time to do it is at age 30 not age 60!

At my level, there was no 'overtime'... and contract engineering, even in the BEST of times, didn't result in booking a full year of work. Still, in the glory years, just 8 or 9 months of work could result in a gross income well in excess of 100K. In fact, I had maybe 7-8 years in a row in which I worked only 7-8 months per year, was able to grab a contract in the fall, and have it run to the spring, leaving my summers free (there are few contracts available in the summer, regardless of the economy), and still make a very nice nut.

I think it also depends on your definition of the word 'frugal'. We never lived 'high on the hog', but at the same rate, most people spend more time in their careers, than in retirement.... and since life (once you get older) seems short, and could be lost at any time, the time to enjoy life is the present. I see too many retirees who either HAVE the money to enjoy life, but not the physical ability.... or DON'T have the money to enjoy life in the style they'd like.

Depending on your definition of 'frugal', I could retire right now.... but I would be so constrained by frugality, as to not make it worth it.

[tigerregis]

The golden-age dilemma. What to that I can do or what can I do that I can afford? The real unfortunate and unforeseen problem is dementia in all its manifestations.
Too many of my older pals couldn't do a goddam thing desirous or not.

[bob winter]

I would love to find out who the nut case was that came up with the term "golden-age".

[BrianM]

I love Engineering.... I think I was born to do it, and never considered doing anything else.

I'm not sure, if I had a son, though, that I'd be so quick to recommend it as a career. For some people, like me, the liabilities and disadvantages are overweighed by the love of the art, the craft, and the science of engineering......

It's always been solid employment for me since 1989. I graduated right into the in the middle of our first "baby recession" (1991) and have always had options to find more work if needed. I was no "A" student in College (well, not after Freshmen Chemistry), but my siblings and I all started work at young ages, and had excellent parental, and grand-parental examples of solid work ethics.

Living very near Silicon Valley, re-invention of industries is continuous IMHO. It has affected the culture, so even in non "Tech" industries nearby, the mentality is the same.. continue to morph.. have no "technology religion". I think this is what feeds the local job market and allows me to keep gainfully employed no matter what.

I did benefit greatly from having a great deal of practical knowledge that was/is valuable to my employers from early on being the son of a machinist. I was exposed to metalworking from age 12 and that has always given me a tremendous advantage over most of my peers (B.S.M.E & Practical Applied experience). My son is getting similar exposure, and has a very similar personality, listens well (he could run the bandsaw safely at age 8) and is Creative and Technically curious. I spent 15 minutes showing him how Solidworks is used, and he was off to the races designing his own robot. This is no guarantee of work, but it gives him a pretty darn good chance and I have great confidence in him, and our country's future.

We will rebound at some point to a reasonable economy.

I am also confident that whatever you study and or take on as a career, if you truly love it, you will find a way to make a happy life with it.

I hear you on how difficult getting work is as an independent contractor. But some of the wisest advice on the subject I heard right off this forum about self-employment.. If you don't spend at least 20% of your work day doing "Sales" and "Marketing" of your skills and services, you can't make it in the long run. That's very solid advice and my kids know it.

[JBreeze]

I would love to find out who the nut case was that came up with the term "golden-age".

Probably some old former marketer/spin doctor with a bad case of BPH who was glad to see anything yellow in color

[AndyG]

This side of the pond - it all sounds familiar.

I was made redundant in late 2009, from an IT support career in Higher Education. These days I do freelance web design/programming work, but that's dried up. Small businesses wrongly see the web as a "luxury" in times like this. The bulk of my income now comes from online delivery driving and checkout operating for a major UK supermarket. NOT a field I'd ever trained in or considered working for, but needs must - especially when it's impossible to write my IT-strong CV without suggesting I'm 49. And - given the current market - therefore over-aged and effectively unemployable.

(There are UK laws against ageism, but it's essentially impossible to prove my CV gets stuck at the bottom of the pile, as I'm sure it does, when there are people in their twenties after the same roles...)

All is not doom & gloom, however: I'm currently enjoying the work I do, the company are extremely even-handed and genuinely nice people to work for, and management seemingly beckons. We shall see!

Andy

[Flying Orca]

I work with people with intellectual disabilities, and business is thriving.

I'm manfully resisting comparisons to the Bilge...

[Soundbounder]

Then I started learning about age discrimination. I was 55 years old and trying to find something out of my field. Nobody would even talk to me. With 35 years of construction knowledge, I couldn't even get a job at Home Depot. Now, that's sinking pretty low!
Luckily, my wife has an excellent pension and we've always spent wisely. So, right now, life is fine.

Home Depot and most other chains are not looking for someone with knowledge, they are looking for people who will obey.

Two other issues arise as well:

- they assume you will leave as soon as something better comes along
- the manager is uncomfortable with a subordinate who is more knowledgeable than he/she. They think you will take their job, or at the very least, be a threat to their authority. Home Depot type store would rather hire someone who worked at McDonalds.

[bobbys]

Im in between opportunities!

[Lew Barrett]

I've worked for myself for 35 years and I came to think that having my own product was my best solution, but I understand that not everyone is in a position to generate that, nor does everyone appreciate the anxiety that comes from winging it alone.

I believe that an economy and economic plans based solely on growth has no chance of being successful in the long run. Endless growth is not sustainable, and neither is it a necessary fundamental notion of the universe. Breathe in, breathe out, contraction and expansion, that is universal. Good planning (I am not citing myself as an example by any means) helps us achieve passage in times of contraction. I'd suggest that it is the poor planning against contraction that is fueling economic concerns today. Nothing can be done to avoid contraction; it simply needs to be understood and panned for.

Having a skill of your own, a product that is yours to sell or horde, that is probably the best anybody can do. The rest is a matter of some luck and timing. I can easily imagine a world with too many people and too few resources. Travel to India.

[pcford]

I've done classic boat restoration since the early 70s. About 1980 started to specialize in mahogany runabout. I did web monkey work around 2000. Did boat work without a shop subsequently...and learned who was getting a huge share of the money I was working for: the landlord. Actually did better financially without a shop. Though I really miss having one...!

In the late 90s started doing video...Have done non-narrative, documentary and corporate video. Am currently working on a documentary about a bunch of artists in the 60s and 70s that lived in abandoned fisherman's shacks at the mouth of the Skagit River.

Yes, classic boat restoration and video is perhaps a strange coupling, but there are a couple more here. Dan Cooley being one...there are one or two more.

[Garret]

Yes, classic boat restoration and video is perhaps a strange coupling, but there are a couple more here. Dan Cooley being one...there are one or two more.

Not so much. Both require creativity & comfort with tools. Actually makes sense to me.

[Lew Barrett]

Not so much. Both require creativity & comfort with tools. Actually makes sense to me.

Odd combinations are much in favor. Who could possibly think to combine chocolate and chilies? It's all the rage! I have the answer by the way. For the last ten years I have regretted not going to culinary school so I could become a celebrity chef. It combines two of my favorite things: food and pot(s) and seems to be a straight path to your own TV show!

[George Jung]

... and if you could do it with a WB twist, a built-in audience!

Yer a genius!

[WoodboatCoop]

I am the AG service manger for a Case and Kubota dealership in Ashland Va. I have been there for 8 years . With grain prices up, farmers are spending money. We are very busy with our own equipment and other brand tractors, that means JD Ford and MF. It all boils down to that you can't get good service just anywhere. We are not the cheapest by far but we have a backlog of work without any advertising at all. Our only limitation is that of QUALITY people to hire. I agree with the above comments that if you can find a good person, you had better be quick to hire and the work will follow.

[Lew Barrett]

....so.... what's cookin', Lew?

For appetizer: periwinkle feet with a hint of fennel and saffron, a side condiment of pureed celery root and basil, jicama cubes and parmesan croutons
Main: Panko encrusted force meat with macadamia nut stuffing......oh please...who am I kidding?

Hot dogs! I just had a notion I should have been a chef. Nobody in their right mind would actually hire me for the job!

[pcford]

Not so much. Both require creativity & comfort with tools. Actually makes sense to me.

Why thank you, sir. That was very kind.

Actually, I have thought that boat restoration is excellent preparation for video work. Both require endless hours of precise work that few will know or appreciate you did.

[pipefitter]

I believe that an economy and economic plans based solely on growth has no chance of being successful in the long run. Endless growth is not sustainable, and neither is it a necessary fundamental notion of the universe. Breathe in, breathe out, contraction and expansion, that is universal. Good planning (I am not citing myself as an example by any means) helps us achieve passage in times of contraction. I'd suggest that it is the poor planning against contraction that is fueling economic concerns today. Nothing can be done to avoid contraction; it simply needs to be understood and panned for.

Having a skill of your own, a product that is yours to sell or horde, that is probably the best anybody can do. The rest is a matter of some luck and timing. I can easily imagine a world with too many people and too few resources. Travel to India.

This has been true at least as long as I have been alive, and was even more obvious when I entered the work force. Right about the time when I was being pressured to discover what I wanted to be when I grew up, in the height of the transition from a manufacturing to a service oriented economy.

The rules of thumb that applied to my father, no longer really applied to me. Instead of choosing a career based on one's aptitude strengths, it was more a choice of likelihood. It may have shown that I was stronger with the hands-on trades, but that I might ought to consider working for the food related industry, for at least being able to eat because regardless of the times, it was something everyone was going to need regardless.

[JMAC]

I've run my own woodworking business since '88 after around 5 years of working in boat shops. Business has been steady through the years. I get most of my work from a few sources as a sub and also word of mouth. I've been getting more and more marquetry commissions over the last 10 years and am always pushing in that direction. I've been doing more teaching of woodworking in the last few years and that's been enjoyable. I think I'm spoiled by self-employment...I can knock off a bit early here and there and go sailing...

[Garret]

Why thank you, sir. That was very kind.

Actually, I have thought that boat restoration is excellent preparation for video work. Both require endless hours of precise work that few will know or appreciate you did.

Soitenly!

I've done enough video work to know just how persnickety one has to be to produce a quality product. IOW - I know enough to know I'm not a videographer! Same thing for boatbuilding I'm afraid..... Oh, I can do basic stuff & the electrical/plumbing/engine systems are 2nd nature to me - but get me past painting & varnishing (where I'm almost good enough to fake it) & you will see that a pro did not do it

[Dave Wright]

[QUOTE=Lew Barrett;3470307]....I believe that an economy and economic plans based solely on growth has no chance of being successful in the long run. Endless growth is not sustainable, and neither is it a necessary fundamental notion of the universe. Breathe in, breathe out, contraction and expansion, that is universal. Good planning (I am not citing myself as an example by any means) helps us achieve passage in times of contraction. I'd suggest that it is the poor planning against contraction that is fueling economic concerns today. Nothing can be done to avoid contraction; it simply needs to be understood and planned for.....
QUOTE]

Just excellent wisdom!!!! It's a pleasure to hear from someone who has his act together.

The gloom and doom has probably been with us long enough this time for many folks to miss that the bottom may have been passed. I just pulled my "Economist" magazine out of the mailbox and noticed some optimism. Guarded to be sure, and mindful that the turnaround will not show immediate strong gains in employment, but optimistic nevertheless.

[Lew Barrett]

I don't know about having my act together but Mamma did teach me to save some for the rainy days. We are going to learn how to live on a shrinking planet. We got used to a level and even more, a style of consumption that is just not sustainable. This is fruit of believing in constant expansion when in fact our resources are finite. Our style needs adjustment but it's not an impossible task. We can do it for ourselves or be the victims of our conditions. There are no easy answers but there are answers.

[L.W. Baxter]

I've got my country's 500th anniversary to plan, my wedding to arrange, my wife to murder and Guilder to frame for it; I'm swamped.

[Paul Girouard]

I don't know about having my act together but Mamma did teach me to save some for the rainy days. We are going to learn how to live on a shrinking planet. We got used to a level and even more, a style of consumption that is just not sustainable. This is fruit of believing in constant expansion when in fact our resources are finite. Our style needs adjustment but it's not an impossible task. We can do it for ourselves or be the victims of our conditions. There are no easy answers but there are answers.

So is this part of the reason you sold Rita, you've ( feel / think ) used more than your "share" of said resources? And what is a fair share for each person, is it connected to wealth or lack there of?

[Lew Barrett]

So is this part of the reason you sold Rita, you've ( feel / think ) used more than your "share" of said resources? And what is a fair share for each person, is it connected to wealth or lack there of?

How lovely to hear from you, Paul.

The new owner is confirming my decision that it was time to move her along. I hope someday fate will be kind enough to allow those of us so inclined to enjoy stewardship of such a beautiful and wasteful pig. Yachts are inefficient, and one of those things, like multiple high end homes, that don't fit easily into a world of lesser means. They clearly don't as easily fit into mine, but after almost two decades, I was ready if just a bit reluctant. It was a decision more easily rationalized because my wife no longer wanted to go boating. On my own I would almost certainly have (wastefully) gone to my grave trying to hold onto her, but selling her has opened other doors. I miss her in good weather.

Her new owner is ripping along, doing all the little things that I would not have gotten to. I had run out of gas. I hope the world has room to support just a few Ritas going forward. I think they are in a special category of objects. They are supremely frivolous, but also quite beautiful. No doubt they're very messy.
Here she is under new management.



In answer to your question about wealth and what might be a fair share for people rich or poor, I refer you to Leo Tolstoy's famous parable about Pahom, the wealthy Kulock. Just how much does any man need? Tolstoy's answer can be found in a few minutes of pleasant reading by following this link. Heartily recommended especially if you want to converse (with me) on the subject of what we should expect in the end.

[Chip-skiff]

Writing was my #1 livelihood for twenty years, but it's not so good right now. I want to write big, intricate books and my agent says he can't sell them. Why can't I write a big, dumb, sexy book?

So I've been designing and building specialized gear for scientific work on rivers and streams: boats that carry multiple sensors and data recorders, lightweight cableways, one-off rigs for measuring streams on the Greenland Ice Cap. I also work as head boatman and logistics guy for river research projects. All of which I love, but it's not steady.

[MiddleAgesMan]

....In answer to your question about wealth and what might be a fair share for people rich or poor, I refer you to Leo Tolstoy's famous parable about Pahom, the wealthy Kulock. Just how much does any man need? Tolstoy's answer can be found in a few minutes of pleasant reading by following this link. Heartily recommended especially if you want to converse (with me) on the subject of what we should expect in the end.

Great story at that link, Lew. Thanks bunches.

[PhaseLockedLoop]

I own a corporation that makes a potting compound used in the microwave connector industry. I'm the only employee. For 33 years, I make the stuff, can it, label it, do tiresome amounts of QA paperwork, and ship it all over the world. It's a specialty goop, and I've never had to advertise. I thought it'd never last more than ten years or so, but people still order it. Fewer than before--maybe half of what I was doing in the late '90s, when I was netting well over 130k/yr. Probably if I hadn't stumbled on this, I'd have had a more varied and interesting work life, but what the hell. It hasn't taken that much of my time, and I'm not very ambitious.

[Dale R. Hamilton]

Age 70, retired Army special forces doctor, now building mahogany runabouts in my own shop in Murfreesboro Tennessee. I never sold one until just a few weeks ago, and now have sold 2- with the 3rd getting some interest. Just setting up the frames for the newest build. I guess the economy has been the culprit- selling one boat a year should not be a big deal.

[Lew Barrett]

Great story at that link, Lew. Thanks bunches.

Your welcome MAM, a true classic but then, what else to expect from Tolstoy?

[slloyd]

i'm pretty new to this forumn, but really think boat building is a great hobby. i'm an engineer too (like many in this forumn!). i designed the high performance motor drives that went into america's F-35 jet. that was a crazy project, but i was fortunate to be around some top notch designers so i really learned a life time of knowledge in just a few short years. right time / right place. sadly i had to leave that job because the commute was too long and i was not willing to move plus the company policies were starting to change into a way that was not appealing to me. since i was forced to find a new job i thought i might as well try a whole new industry! now i am in the power systems business and really enjoying it. power systems are one of those things that everyone needs so business is good, too good .. i have little free time.

i have been thinking of making my boat electric (would like quiet cruising without a sail). i have the knowledge to design every aspect myself including the battery charger system but i do not have access to electrical where my boat would be docked in order to charge the batteries and think that hauling the batteries out of the boat would be a pain. maybe this won't happen.. but one can dream