20' Sooty Tern

[SBrookman]

Here's another scarfing tool. A bit quieter than the ramped router jig, and just as effective.


Unless you're way into torturing yourself, and in wasting lots of expensive planking stock, I'd advise against scarfing full sheets.

As I've found out. John Brooks calls for scarfing 1/2 sheets of ply, but with the planks of the melonseed I was hard pressed to get one plank out of a 2' section, resulting in a lot waste and expense. I'm now scarfing each plank individually on the molds. 1/4" ply and a sharp plane and it's almost enjoyable.

[PeterSibley]

Thank you James, I'll build a router jig and I definitely think you're right about scarfing full sheets, both for the room required and the difficulty of getting a decent job on a 1200 wide scarf .

[Vernon]

Yep and I'm getting most of them from here !

A brief discussion above about cutting out planks shapes. I take it that you don't scarf full sheets up then cut out the planks? JIM's plans show neatly stacked planks on the 2 1/2 scarfed and glued panel but that is without the small extra allowance for the lap. It seems quite doable but what method are you using Vernon or did I miss a post?

I am rough cutting to size using the pattern and then scarphing/gluing to shape, then laying out the pattern full size before cutting to the exact shape. I have plenty of space and think it would be easier to scarph 2 sets of 3 sheet together full size first, but I have no way of knowing how well the planks would nest together. I would rather do the extra work than waste the material. If you didn' have plenty of space where you could leave everything out while you did the planking, scarphing full sheets would be a bear.

[Vernon]

As I've found out. John Brooks calls for scarfing 1/2 sheets of ply, but with the planks of the melonseed I was hard pressed to get one plank out of a 2' section, resulting in a lot waste and expense. I'm now scarfing each plank individually on the molds. 1/4" ply and a sharp plane and it's almost enjoyable.

I tried gluing up planks right on the moulds for a few sets of planks last build and couldn't quite get the layouts right. I would probably have better luck with it now that I'm trying patterns instead of spiling. The really sweet part of doing it that way was that the scrap amounted to slivers. I went to scarphing up the rough shapes on the bench and spiling the whole plank at once with better results.

[Vernon]

I may have try a router jig as well, I'm using a sled and a radial arm saw right now - works pretty well, but the router would probably do a cleaner scarph for the shear strakes which will likely be left bright.

Went to the heat gun one more time to clean up the scarph joints tonight. I had tried it once before when I think is was StevenBauer mentioned it in another thread. No joy that time. The mention of using a hair dryer made me think I might try it at lower temp and slower. I set my heat gun on low, held it back about 8", and worked with a scraper in the other hand. After a bit of practice, that worked really nice. Scrape for about 30 seconds, RO sand for about 30 seconds, and that's it. Learned something very useful today - saves time and eliminates a bunch of dust. - Sweet.

[James T]

I have been looking over the Arctic Tern (AT) and Sooty Tern (ST) plans provided to me (not directly from Ian I hasten to add)...and I have some Hmmmms to run by you...

1. As Ian notes the Sheer line on ST is approx 1/2 inch higher (6-9 sixteenths) than AT...on the James M Rowan superpost (which I have at last finished reading) it was suggested that Ian's sheer line on other boats could benefit by coming up an additional 1/2 inch...would you think the ST sheer as drawn would be reasonable for the sheer line or should it be an inch plus from AT plans? of course my plan would be to turn the boat hull and finalise the sheer at that point...what did you do Vern?

2. In the AT plan for a lug sail rig the Mast Step for the Foremast sits on the keelson...the forward edge of which is 13 and 3/4 inches aft of station 1...this shortens the apron/keelson forward overlap to approximately 5 and 1/2 inches for the lug sail rig as opposed to a from a 10 and 1/4 inche overlap for the sloop rig...does this feel like enough overlap upon which to glue the planks if the apron is cut short at the beginning of the build...or would you think the full 10 and 1/4 inches should be used and then the cutout for the mast step done later? I wonder if on the aft apron you would also cut the knotch for the mizzen later or not? It looks like you incorporated the full length overlap Vernon?

3. I have been checking the Spar lengths and there seems to be a discrepancy on my plans...the ST sail plan sheets scale seems correct (checked against reefing distances) but I am getting a mast height of 15' 2" rather than 16' 4" on the AT plan further I have no dimensions drawn for the top yard (whatever that is called...completly unfamiliar with a lug rig) and the boom on the ST sail plan measures in at 10' 2" as opposed to 9' 6" (or 9' 9" by my scale ) on the AT plans...the mizzen mast and boom seem correctly drawn although I am missing one end dimension...thoughts? james

[Vernon]

1 - I am going to build it as drawn. Not that I don't think it wouldn't be OK higher, just that I don't know any better.

2 - I saw that the step for the lug rig would shorten the overlap, but I left it long anyway to make sure the joint was plenty strong to build on. I'll cut and chisel out what I need later on both ends.

3 - I haven't paid any attention to the sails at this point at all. I'll have a lot of questions myself when I get closer as I have never done anything with sails before. I plan to just figure it out when the time comes. If I knew how to do all this up front, I very likely wouldn't be interested in doing it.

[Vernon]

I took a whole bunch of picture detailing step by step what I did to install the 1st of the 3rd set of planks. I modify this a bit with each set, so it's not necessarily the best way, just the way I did this one.

I touch up my chisel and plane every set of planks, I like em razor sharp.



First time I tried it this way. must have read this in Iains book. Just a quick saw cut to set the depth and shape of the bevel at each station. It turned out to be a handy visual reference, you can do 90% of the work before starting to check with straight edges.





Plane and plane - it start by going end to end in both directions, just because it's cool, and then work station to station as I get close.

[Vernon]

I cut the moulds to the theorectical curve, intending to line off and cut the flats as I go.



Needs cut off to the red line.



I just knock if off with a chisel.



check the flat and the bevel, same at every mould



with all the flats right on and the bevels at every station perfect, I use a block sander to get fair curves in the ply lines between all the stations.

[Vernon]

bevel the moulds and the stems. I work on 1 and the stem at the same time.



chisel and sanding block to fit the stem.



check with the lining batten



I then do 7 and the aft inner stem.
For the intermediate stations its easy enough to slip the chisel under the batten to get them just right.



last chance to eyeball the lining batten and make any adjustment. The reality is that I spend a bunch of contemplation time, maybe grab a beer, and then leave it right there where Iain drew it.



Prolly should contemplate it from this way too.

[Vernon]

dissasemble the last pattern to use again.



clamp a batten along the lap line.



clamp another batten along the upper lap mark on the moulds.



trim the ply and staple in place.



and there's the pattern. the closest stick is the approximate end of the plank.

[Vernon]

Use the pattern to cut the rough shapes of the planking stock and arrange in an economical manner.
Layout and cut all the scarphs, this jig is set to cut 12/1.




it's a 7 1/2" wobble blade in a 10" radial saw. set to cut a dado about 1/2" wide.



sand all the cuts with coarse paper on a block.



I put nails along the back side and index marks on the front to layout the planks



all layed out and ready to glue.
this sides fat, but that's because it was the end of the sheets and nothing worth saving.

[Vernon]

wet out all the gluing surfaces twice with neat epoxy.



thickened epoxy on just 1 side of each joint



plastic between all the parts



tack everything in place in the cut out sections to make sure nothing slides



clamped and screwed for the night. I use the same torx deck screws over and over.




glued up for the night

[Vernon]

blob of squeeze out to remove in the morning



a little heat and a scraper




a quick sanding







The radial saw doesn't do perfect scarphs, but good enoug for painted.

[timo4352]

Thanks for taking the time to post all this Vernon. Very informative. I never would've guessed the flats on the molds being cut. Makes sense when I see it though. Good job to teach a newbie like me.
Tim

[Vernon]

clamp and mark out the plank



there it is



cut and plane to the line.



flip the pair and do the other side



there's a set of planks

[Vernon]

fit the 1st of the set on the boat. I like to remove all the but the end quick clamps and just use the lap clamps to check for proper fit.







tick marks where the gains will start. if you can't see it the top says 'Reverse' and the bottom has a bunch of X's too. I know the operator of the chisel.



mark the center 3 stations for the best placement.

[Vernon]

This one should have been earlier. I found that the osb is hard enough to imprint on the back of the plank. I've been slightly rounding over the corners since. I imagine the same would hold true for ply. Now that I've tried using sheet material for moulds, I think I'll stay with making them up with solid wood from now on. Easier to shape, clamp, not as hard on the plank, and all around just more pleasant to use.



You may have noticed that I did not plane off the lines on the planks, this leaves them about 1/8 wide over the whole lenght. After I accepted that some planks would overhang and need filled, I decided to embrace the idea. All planks on the bottow will Over hang that 1/8 and then just a tiny epoxy fillet will be applied with neat epoxy as I coat the ply ends.

The lap line gets redrawn before the plank comes off



all edges are rounded over that 1/16th per side. Meranti is kinda splintery, this helps alot.



all edges get a real good block sanding. some of the shorter lap clamps help reach the back without having to flip every time.



I didnt mention that I scribed the back of the plank at the ends on the boat. I did, now they get cut just a bit fat.



got to remember to transfer the 3 sets of station marks if both sides are to be identical

[Vernon]

while I'm at it, I draw the lap lines on both the front and back - front for beveling later, back for a glue guide line.

cutting the gains. IO shows a kinda step cut gain, that's not how I'm going to do these.

that's my gain drawing and measuring tool there - the gains start at 15" and are later fitted all the way to the next station.
you can see the diagonal drawn on the side of the ply to help.




Walter Simmons said that being tentative was not the way to do this. That's the way I practiced doing them on my first build.
One cut to take off 3/4's of the material




2nd cut to get most of the rest, you can see the curlys in the background.



3rd cut and some sanding, close enough - they'll be fit at the boat.



do both ends, flip and do the backs, then back to the boat.

an old sanding belt ran back and forth on both surfaces all the way back to the station. Doesn't take long to achieve a near perfect fit with the 50 grit belt.

[Vernon]

time to glue the planks on.
can't help myself, I start by cleaning and roughing all mating surfaces with the block sander.



dust it all off



tape the moulds - I'm using tyvek tape cuz that's what's laying around.



tack all with acetone



and we're ready for the glue up

[Vernon]

I wandered over to the other side of the barn for some parts. My canoe was sitting there all forlorn looking. Sitting on a cardboard box for the last 3 weeks for pete's sake. No boat building tommorow - I'm going canoeing.

[Vernon]

I'm using West 105 - 206 - 404 for gluing. I switched over to the 206 slow hardener when it got real hot because the mix was getting warm right in the mixing bowl when I did a 3 or more pump mix. I've been sticking with it because it drys overnight just fine - no need for the 205 right now.



I just pour the stuff on and then spread it.



while I'm at it, I wet out the edge too.



2 coats on each side to wet out, then a mayonaise like thickened mix just on the boat.

[Vernon]

on to the boat



It takes 2 hands, so I couldn't show it, but I pull the lap clamps while holding the plank down with one hand and scoop off the excess with the putty knife, then put the clamps back on - this time I tighten them. I just use a scrap of plywood for a hawk.



I'm adding 7/8" 14g bronze nails at the ends.



there's a plank



unfortunatly, I waste about 1/4 of the glue this way.

[Vernon]

I like the 404, but it takes a lot to thicken the epoxy. I had to take a trip to West Marine, this time I bought a bigger can.



I tried Jamestown first. Went to the home page and just knew that the page would be west404, so I just typed it in at the end of the home page url.

I got "404 not found". Oh man! just a white page with alot of little type - http something or another. Man was I pissed, they could have at least took me to a nice page that told me when it would come in.



Oh well, I got over it - back to the building

[Vernon]

about 5 or 6 hours later in the same day I remove the clamps, run the scraper in the seam, and coat the edges again. I just pour a bead at the seam, warm it with the heat gun, and push it along with my finger. then I spread out the excess with the foam pad.

[Vernon]

next morning now. countersink the nail just below the surface.



roughly plane off the excess on the ends - this is where you'll pay for sloppy nail placement



this is an image of how much the planks are standing off with the little bit of Over hang - maybe 3/32.



run the scraper in the seam again - gently this time, this is near the finish.



I'll wait a few days before sanding.

[Vernon]

The third plank on the other side is a shorter story.

There it is.

[SBrookman]

>>This one should have been earlier. I found that the osb is hard enough to imprint on the back of the plank. I've been slightly rounding over the corners since. I imagine the same would hold true for ply. Now that I've tried using sheet material for moulds, I think I'll stay with making them up with solid wood from now on. Easier to shape, clamp, not as hard on the plank, and all around just more pleasant to use.<<

This is a great thread. I wish you had started your build a bit earlier, I needed this info. I used 15/32 ply for my molds and wish that I used solid wood. That ply was too thin and I didn't realize the molds needed to have flats cut for the planks. Oh well, that's why there's a next build, and that one will be perfect, at least until I start.

[PeterSibley]

Thanks for the essay mate ... I'm going to shout you a beer when we meet !

[PeterSibley]

I've been thinking about the way you do your gains, I'd been thinking of doing a half depth on both to and bottom planks, is that acceptable ? I'm going to have to think this one through.

[Vernon]

I've been thinking about the way you do your gains, I'd been thinking of doing a half depth on both to and bottom planks, is that acceptable ? I'm going to have to think this one through.

Yes, that'll work, I think it's the way IO recommends. If I remember right, you'll find that Terry did his on the CY that way if you look back. I learned this way and find it quick and easy so no need to change.

I'm doing a mix of IO, Walter Simmons, stuff I read here, and whatever I've worked out for myself.

[Vernon]

.....I used 15/32 ply for my molds and wish that I used solid wood. That ply was too thin and I didn't realize the molds needed to have flats cut for the planks. Oh well, that's why there's a next build, and that one will be perfect, at least until I start.

I used cheap pine 1x6 for my last build. A little more difficult to do, but I like it a lot better.

[Vernon]

Thanks for taking the time to post all this Vernon. Very informative. I never would've guessed the flats on the molds being cut. Makes sense when I see it though. Good job to teach a newbie like me.
Tim

I'm trying to teach a newbie - like me! - when i built my canoe I had some really good literature to follow. I posted something similar to this batch on that thread. I went back there to read what the heck I said before I started planking this one!

[timo4352]

Newbie or not, I think your doing a great job Vernon, on both boats. Your approach on this planking to keep it simple works just right for my thinking. Why complicate it if you can keep it simple with such good results? And your how-to with pics was very well done. Thank you.
Tim

[PeterSibley]

Vernon is no newbie, he's a skilled builder of good lookin' boats and I'm copying him as closely as I can !

[Vernon]

Not much to talk about this week. I like my process of getting a set of planks on, and how little filling and sanding will be required to fair the outside of the hull. Just did the same thing this time.

Chuggin along at a set of planks a weekend and the fourth set is hung.

[PeterSibley]

Great stuff Vernon, nothing is happening for me. A series of home repair and family activities are taking precedence but I'll get there !

[neilm]

I like the 404, but it takes a lot to thicken the epoxy. I had to take a trip to West Marine, this time I bought a bigger can.



I tried Jamestown first. Went to the home page and just knew that the page would be west404, so I just typed it in at the end of the home page url.

I got "404 not found". Oh man! just a white page with alot of little type - http something or another. Man was I pissed, they could have at least took me to a nice page that told me when it would come in.



Oh well, I got over it - back to the building

Pretty funny!

[Vernon]

Great stuff Vernon, nothing is happening for me. A series of home repair and family activities are taking precedence but I'll get there !

I know how that goes Peter, I'm just trying to stick mainly with this project until the major hull components are glued up and wait for cooler weather to take a month or so on other projects around the house. I don't want to fiddle with providing general heat in the winter for the larger glued components.

[Vernon]

Pretty funny!

Finally!

Someone responds to one of my attempts at humor.
I was starting to think I might not be too funny.

Thanks Neil, that's just excellent.
My wife happened in though - she didn't get it.

Vern

[PeterSibley]

I know how that goes Peter, I'm just trying to stick mainly with this project until the major hull components are glued up and wait for cooler weather to take a month or so on other projects around the house. I don't want to fiddle with providing general heat in the winter for the larger glued components.

My problem is going to be epoxy going off instantly in 100F temps .

[Vernon]

My problem is going to be epoxy going off instantly in 100F temps .

I started when it was too hot here for paddling. It was likely quite a bit over 100F on the back side of the barn where I work. It's the first time I used it, but when I switched over to the slow hardener, I had no issues at all.

[Vernon]

The 5th set of planks threw me for a bit of a loop. When I laid the pattern on the bench, the top of the planks were not a continuous curve. The curves were fair, but there was a hump near each of the end stations. I fitted the pattern back on and eyeballed it up, but it still looked fine to me on the boat. I went ahead and cut the planks so I could check them on the boat.

I tried to illustrate this by laying the plank near the edge of a straight floor runner. Here is one of the planks just rough cut. They are nearly straight at this postion, the top is to the left.



Without bothering to clean up the plank, I took it to the boat for some fitting.
Here it is with quick clamps at the 2 ends and just lap clamps in between.




I took off all the lap clamps to get a better view, and just rested the plank on a couple of spring clamps.



I must have wasted a few hours convincing myself that the pattern was correct from every possible angle, the shape of the plank was just unexpected.



I finally just cleaned it up and glued the darn thing on. I've heard suggestions that the design could benefit from a higher shear, maybe this is what is meant. Take the last couple of strakes and drawn them up with continuous curves on top. I'm sticking with the plans, as it comes together, I like what I see - it's turning into a wonderful shape.



Anyway, it was exicting enough for an update. I'll glue the other tommorow, then on to the shear strake.

Vern.

[m2c1Iw]

Finally!

Someone responds to one of my attempts at humor.
I was starting to think I might not be too funny.

Thanks Neil, that's just excellent.
My wife happened in though - she didn't get it.

Vern

Way too subtle for me BTW I had the same concern re the plank line on the sheer strake of my Coquina, a real worry when one spends hours and hours shaping an expensive bit of mahogany.
Your build is looking great Vernon and thaks for putting the time into this thread it's like a boatbuilding school even though I've done a bit myself I've picked a lot of great ideas.

Cheers
Mike

[PeterSibley]

Way too subtle for me BTW I had the same concern re the plank line on the sheer strake of my Coquina, a real worry when one spends hours and hours shaping an expensive bit of mahogany.
Your build is looking great Vernon and thaks for putting the time into this thread it's like a boatbuilding school even though I've done a bit myself I've picked a lot of great ideas.

Cheers
Mike

Seconded on that ! I'll actually get a few hours in the shed this afternoon.

[Vernon]

Thanks guys, that's the first time I ran across a plank like that and I don't have any images of what they should look like. I'm curious to do the shear now. In the end though, with the method that I'm using you have to trust that the lining battens are correct if they hit the marks and look good - and not try to 'fix' them.

Peter, you must be excited to start planking. It's my favorite part of the build.

[PeterSibley]

In about an hour Vernon ! One of the few advantages of working from a S&G plan is that I have helpful illustrations of what my planks are supposed to look like, I won't be quite as surprised .

[Vernon]

1st of the 5th set with the clamps removed looks good.




The other side glue up now, coulda turned the flash on for a few of these.



Although with the epoxy on the seams, fuzzyness might make the lines easier to see.
Great camera skills then.





Clamps off, a few more edges coated with epoxy.



I ran out of plywood and fogot to get another sheet or I may have been able to finish the planking this long weekend. I bought 6 sheets according to the material list for the AT, no great suprise it's going to take 1 more for the ST. That's ok though, it's shaping up to be a wonderful day for a paddle. I'll hit the Sandusky River for a quiet trip, the Lake will be silly today.

[Vernon]

I could have planed the flat for the keel runner and cut the slot for the centerboard. I looked at it for awhile and went for a 5hr paddle instead.

[Durnik]

I could have planed the flat for the keel runner and cut the slot for the centerboard. I looked at it for awhile and went for a 5hr paddle instead.

A fellow has to have priorities..

I like yours.. ;-)

enjoy
bobby