Would you buy this diesel?

[Old Dryfoot]

A Volvo MD2B, 25 HP 2 cylinder. It's a hefty one at ~500lbs, not made since 1975, and the price is $175.

This is a cheap motor... for a reason, it's seized due to salt water ingress. This did NOT happen while the motor was running though I know nothing more about the circumstances other than that. I haven't contacted the seller yet as I don't want to waste their time until I'm better informed about what I might be getting into.

There is no real need for me to buy a diesel, especially a seized one, other than to have a project to work on that doesn't take up a huge amount of room, and having a working motor for a future boat project.

So how dumb an idea is this?

[tigerregis]

OD, I have a later model 2002 and was told by an American VP dealer that my motor (early 80's) is not supported. You might want to check with your local dealer which parts are available.

[Old Dryfoot]

Okay, strike one. Parts support from Volvo. There does seem to be somewhat of an aftermarket supply available online. No way of knowing if what might be needed could be had though.

[Canoeyawl]

Those are great little engines. About as close to a "heavy duty" as you can get. It may not need any parts.
I had one brought to me siezed up tight (sunk) and we had it running like a swiss watch in about three days.
There is a little gizmo (sleeve/bushing) on the the governor control (internal) which had fallen into the crankcase when the throttle control was removed previously and that would have caused a problem, but we found it when cleaning out the crankcase through the hand holes. I was able to download a complete manual online. The transmisions are a little fussy.

[Old Dryfoot]

Alright, one for the plus column. that's if I can read reliable from your description of it as heavy duty.

It's good to hear that they can be resurrected from a sinking in such short order. I've done a fair bit of tinkering with gas engines over the years but I've never had my hands on a diesel before. Doing this would be a learning experience for sure. I think I look for a manual right now actually.

[Woxbox]

There's easily $175 of education in the rebuild process. Can't go wrong.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

It is worth almost that much in scrap. Have fun with it.

[JimConlin]

I've heard bitter complaint about the cost of Volvo parts. I'd at least assess the downside.

[richincident]

My old MD2B has been a total joy--and highly reliable. Go for it--it will be a great education and potentially an excellent motor for a boat to be named later.

[Old Dryfoot]

I've heard bitter complaint about the cost of Volvo parts. I'd at least assess the downside.

I'm finding this out right now by pricing bearings, bushings, and other items likely to be replaced in overhaul. A new set of rings would cost $110, a main bearing set runs $190, new valves $320. I'm not sure how this compares to other marine diesels but I do know that right now as I get to around $1000 to $1200 I'm into used prices for a running engine of similar size like a Perkins or a Westerbeke.

[Paul Pless]

I'm finding this out right now by pricing bearings, bushings, and other items likely to be replaced in overhaul. A new set of rings would cost $110, a main bearing set runs $190, new valves $320. I'm not sure how this compares to other marine diesels but I do know that right now as I get to around $1000 to $1200 I'm into used prices for a running engine of similar size like a Perkins or a Westerbeke.

You'll never know until you open it up. Some of the parts may have alternates available for less that are just as high quality. I just googled that Federal Mogul makes a replacement set of piston rings for the Volvo MD series of engines, for instance.

[Stiletto]

Workshop manual: http://motoren.ath.cx/menus/volvo.php

[Old Dryfoot]

You'll never know until you open it up. Some of the parts may have alternates available for less that are just as high quality. I just googled that Federal Mogul makes a replacement set of piston rings for the Volvo MD series of engines, for instance.

Good point.

Okay, so I think I'm going to waste the sellers time with some questions.

Workshop manual: http://motoren.ath.cx/menus/volvo.php

Thanks for the link. I found a version earlier but this one is a much better scan.

[Canoeyawl]

Try this one...

http://www.marinepartseurope.com/en/...t-7742230.aspx

[Old Dryfoot]

Try this one...

http://www.marinepartseurope.com/en/...t-7742230.aspx

That gets a bookmark. Thanks!

[John Meachen]

My take would be that if you buy the engine and find that some work and a few parts makes it good,you have done well.If you dismantle it and find terminal damage the possibility of selling the parts and ancillaries ought to recoup the outlay-after all the warning about the cost of spares works both ways and you would have a pile of parts that would convert to cash.

[Canoeyawl]

The transmision is worth $350

[Old Dryfoot]

My take would be that if you buy the engine and find that some work and a few parts makes it good,you have done well.If you dismantle it and find terminal damage the possibility of selling the parts and ancillaries ought to recoup the outlay-after all the warning about the cost of spares works both ways and you would have a pile of parts that would convert to cash.

That little bit of logic has not been lost on me.

The transmision is worth $350

No trans included at that price but there is a Volvo RB from the same seller for the same price as the engine.

I've sent an email asking some questions, no reply yet but it should be soon.

[Canoeyawl]

The transmision is (sort of) part of the crankcase you won't be able to run it without that.

[Thad Van Gilder]

I used to have one and it was great... actually a MD 11C

There was a shop in Annapolis that had tons of parts in stock... I forget the name though.

-Thad

[Old Dryfoot]

The transmision is (sort of) part of the crankcase you won't be able to run it without that.

Hmmmm that changes things a little. I did read that they shared oil, more reading is in order I think.

Thank you for pointing that out.

I used to have one and it was great... actually a MD 11C

There was a shop in Annapolis that had tons of parts in stock... I forget the name though.

-Thad

Google is my friend.

[Boston]

the price is right, but parts is a problem. If you can't get parts then whats the point. You mention its rusted solid. OK that means rings, bearings cam and crank. And then what if your in BF Egypt and it conks out you ? I'd just hang onto the money and wait for a deal to come along on a more popular engine were parts are a dime a dozen and available from the local grocery store

My two cents
B

[Canoeyawl]

It is possible that it is rusted solid, but I have seen a lot of abandonded marine engines that were just siezed at the rings. It doesn't take much corrosion to do that (sieze) and it can happen in just a few days. And often it doesn't take much effort to free them up. Pull the injectors, soak the cylinders with the penetrating oil of your choice, lube the valve stems with an oil can, tap the valves a bit with a hammer to note that they will move, prime the oil pump and crankshaft externally (you can usually do this at or near the oil filter with a pump type oil can) and confirm lube at the connecting rods and mains so you don't ruin them turning it dry, and wait a few days. Do it again and then take a bar to the flywheel and see if she will nudge a bit. More than one has come back to life with little more effort than this.
Marine engines do not suffer from high cylinder wear so consequently the bores are usually in remarkably good shape. That engine is primarily a sailboat auxilliary engine and probably has limited hours. The crankshaft and related bearings are likely good enough as is if you don't damage them turning it dry, and if the electrolysis in the cylinders is not too bad, it will likely run again.

Note that aluminum pistons with cast iron rings in an iron bore has remarkable similarity to a battery... Add a little electrolyte (sea water) and this is where the problem usually occurs. Just a one or two thousanth of an inch interference behind those rings will seize that thing tight as a drum...

A search here will reveal an Albin engine (very similar) that was given up as hopelessly ruined. A good mechanic put it back in shape with a minumum of parts and effort.
http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...ighlight=albin

[richincident]

Here's the parts place in Annapolis. http://www.merchantcircle.com/busine...e.410-757-3844

They DO know everything about these old volvo motors. Now that I realize there is no transmission I am more concerned than I previously was. You MUST have the transmission to run the engine, because they do share the motor oil. I would call Vosbury and talk with them. They might give you useful guidance.

[keith66]

They were good engines in their day but 40 years on? parts are now becoming very scarce with some unobtainable. I took a single cylinder version out of our boat when i bought her 4 years ago & it smoked like hell, the owner had spent a fortune on it with new piston & liner set & new exhaust manifold. It still smoked.
I have seen quite a few taken out of yachts & the common cause of demise seems to be corrosion of waterways in the cylinder heads.
If the gearbox is missing its a fine mooring sinker!

[Thad Van Gilder]

Dick Vosbury! thats the guy!

he knew everypart of my engine with his eyes closed!!!!

-Thad

[Thad Van Gilder]

Many of the parts, like the exhaust manifold, could be pretty easily cast in bronze at a very reasonable cost...

-Thad

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

I've got a spare RB that you can have, but its the wrong side of the pond.

In fact come to think of it I have two...

My MD2 (not 2B) vintage 1967 is coming out - I can still hand start it but the cooling bores are clagged up with limescale and it overheats after 20 minutes.

[Old Dryfoot]

There is a transmission to go with this motor, both the motor and trans are $175, $300 as a package.

I don't doubt it's a solid little diesel but having the trans married to it so to speak might be a deal breaker. How does the hull influence the selection of the reduction ratio? More to the point, how does this reduction ratio affect any possible future selection of hull?

If the only motivation become profit and knowledge; the knowledge can be had for less, and my time might be worth more than the money. Squirreling away a small diesel for as little as possible was really my main idea.

[Michael D. Storey]

I used to have that very engine. I reckon that seized might mean that the rings are rusted to the cylinders. In which case they can likely be broken free with little effort, the rings replaced and the cylinder honed up. You might be all right. Suggest that you pop the heads off first and check. Volvo for me had the attraction of being easy to work on and not nearly as exacting as, say a Westerbeke.

[Nicholas Scheuer]

I have a Volvo-Penta MD17C (3-cyl) and I'm thinking like Woxbox. Where are you? If you bought it, and were to regret it, I might like to buy it from you just for the education. If it is too costy to fix, parting it out should easily cover the initial price.

I wouldn't be able to schedule a trip from Illinois to pick it up untill next Winter.

[Old Dryfoot]

Nicholas, I'm in Victoria. I'm thinking that even though this is a good deal, and likely to be an easy resurrection, that I'm going to pass.

[tigerregis]

Dick Vosbury is the dealer who gave me the advise above. I have known him long enough to trust his judgement on anything VP. He is a gentleman and a scholar. Just don't try to get him during non-work hours. His everloving wife will have your gronicles for bookends, DAMHIKT!