Looking for H28 sloop starting point

[H28mainman]

Hi all,

Ok I'm a newbie, lets it get said!

I sail as a mainsheet man and occasional fordeckie on the Swan River, Perth Western Australia on an H28 sloop known as Mariner, built by Gordon Jones back in the 50's.

The H28 class has been rocking around the river since Saga (a ketch) was built in 1946 and loosed on the unsuspecting Swan river public. The conversion to sloop rig was pretty swift as most sailors had to deal with the problem of going under the bridges at Fremantle and one mast is easier to drop than two.

The question is did LNH design the H28 sloop rig and when was it published if he did?

After trolling through previous posts I have noted some comments as to the Rudder of 1945 carrying the plan but Mystic Seaport has, as yet, not replied to my email querieing this.

Any help would be greatfully appreciated.

(I believe that Jay Greer is the acknowleged go-to in this case and I would be foolish if I didn't mention his name in the hope of inviting him to respond.

Thanks in anticipation.

[Jay Greer]

So far as I know, the sloop rig for the H28 was drawn up for a private client of LFH. Muriel Vaughn LFH's secretary kept track of his drawings for him. Upon her passing her daughter placed the plans in care of the plans dept. at the Mystic Museum which, is where the drawing of the sloop rig can be obtained. As I have stated before, I am of the belief that LFH designed the H28 ketch so as to be easy to handle under a variety of conditions; hence the short ketch main mast. However, I am convinced that the ketch design would benefit from the taller main mast which, is four feet greater in height than is the ketch design. Under today's thinking there is absolutely no doubt that it is luff length that drives creates the greatest efficiency when working to weather. Granted the Ketch rig using the sloop main mast will need to carry a double set of reef points and need to be reefed sooner than the original set up but, I firmly believe that this will be the way for us to go with our own boat "Bright Star". In addition we will have the advantage of flying more down wind area utilaizing the benefit of the mizzen and a mizzen staysail. We will also opt for running backs on the mizzen as well. This is pretty much the same set up as has been used so sucessfully on "Tichonderoga" and the later versions of "Bounty" and "Araminta". The H28 is capable of some pretty amazing speeds off wind in heavy airs. Adding the ability to carry more canvas takes full advantage of the hull that posseses the same amazing reaching ability as do most all Herreshoff designs. Of course this is a set up for those who like to wring as much performance out of their boats as possible. The down side of this is that the boat becomes a bit more complicated than as it was designed.
But then, who doesn't like going fast!

Jay
I have posted this before but, for those who have not seen this already, here is an example of how stable an H28 can be in heavy airs. The video was shot during a Santana Blow off the coast of California near Dana Point. The seas are blown flat but the wind is blowing a steady 25 and gusting to over thirty. The boat was hitting 8 1/2 kts and bursting to 9 during gusts. The boat is rigged with running backs which help keep the jib stay in line. Note how light and balanced the helm is and how little water is coming aboard! LFH sure knew how to design a seaworthy boat! My son Jaime and his buddy Dan had a ball!
http://vimeo.com/2816887

[Phil Y]

I think Larks needs to go out for a sail with you.

[H28mainman]

Thanks Jay and Phil,

the implied invitation to sail with us is on at any point of time, as we sail summer and winter on the Swan, though the good times are when the Freo Doctor is in from September through till about January. Twenty knots is a good day out, though the eastern end of Melville Water gets a nice chop on it due to the fetch as the seabreeze roars through. NO reefs though, just strap everything down and put a blade on the front. With a bunch of similarly minded H28 sailors the competition is fierce and bragging rights are the gold at the end of the day. Sloop rig will point way higher than a ketch and we have some spectacular shots of the 28's being sailed like ballerinas ....right on the balance point with the gunnels riffing the river water


To clarify matters, the H28 fleet that I sail with, is about to celebrate their 50th Anniversary with the South of Perth Yacht Club and I am trying to nail down as much history about the Swan river H28's as possible before we go into our 50th year. THe other clubs on the river have been very helpful, but occasionally a boat goes walkabout and we are trying to nail all of them down. Trying to nail down the origins of the sloop rig is the prime task I have had for the moment and I can think I can say you have given me the answer I needed.

The best way to pick a Swan River H28 is the tabernacle, the fact that it is made ( in part ) in Jarrah and it is of course a fractional sloop rig. Most have the forward spreaders on the last 6 feet of the mast (a throw back to the wooden mast days), though not all H28's of the Swan have them now.

Look forward to more sightings of the Swan river H28's and more history, if there are any contributors out there.

[Larks]

I have a copy of the sloop rig plans that Jay refers to from Mystic if you want a look at them. They're at home on the east coast but my wife is heading over in a couple of weeks and can bring them over if you are interested. I've been meaning to come up for a look but I gathered from the SOPYC website that everything is pretty much **** down between April and October?? However it sounds from your post like you do actually race a winter series? Can you tell me more?
cheers
Greg

[Zane Lewis]

Have you looked at the NZ made glass copy of the H28. It was about a 1ft longer and they made the keel deeper at 4'6" draft.

Re The Ketch rig.
Stronly second Jay's coments.
As a teenager my Dad a NZ had one in Strip plank edge nailed and glued. It had been built in 1966 at Omaha in NZ. It was one of several built for the NZ charter trade at the time. Anyway Dad added an extra 4-5 ft to the main mast and a bowsprit as well.
Upwind it was not much fun but down hill man that thing could go.
from 2am to 5am one morning I ran 27 NM in her towing a 12 ft dingy. She would just lie on her side and skid, you could feel her just pop up on her side as the waves picker her up.
Dad came up about 5am complaining about the noise of the water rushing past his head. When he saw how fast we were going he decided we needed to take some sail in. Besides we were almost at our next stop for a few hours kip.
Zane
nb we had no motor in her at the time and that made a big difference to sailing performance. Just used a seagull on the dingy.

[H28mainman]

Hi Zane and Greg.

First up, Greg your offer is fantastic and a look at the plans would help us decide what was added to LFH's design over here in the west. Any chance there are dates ( Original ) on the plan. Anyway that is a fantastic offer and I would be happy to take it up. Contact me on 0418 907792 ( Rick Steuart )

Secondly. As I said we sail both summer and winter. The summer sailing season runs pretty much as advertised on the clubs website, but Wednesday sailing (1445 start) is a go all year around apart from Christmas and Easter. We also do Frostbites (every second Sunday) and some boats cross the river to sail with other clubs to keep the faith going during the week.

Zane, great to hear from you.

The NZ version was actually a very good improvement on the boat and has been proved by its popularity.Was your dads boat a sloop rig?

I do know the feel of a boat with everything let loose a little on a reach or down the wind. 27 NM is a great run and would probably test one of us, but they no longer let the Swan river crowd out on the ocean as ( the powers above ) feel that we are not safe to go out there because of the lack of self draining cockpits. So we race around the river and go out onto the ocean for cruising purposes only.

As soon as I feel a bit more comfortable with this site I will start posting pix for viewing.

Cheers

Rick ( aka h29 mainman)

[Larks]

No worries Rick, I'll give you a call at a more sensible hour. (I just noticed on my last post that the word s.h.u.t. was censored??????)

[H28mainman]

Hi Lark,

am running into a problem with uploads of images. The attachment manager insists that I get the file size down to about 25 Kb and then sneers at me insisting that after all the effort I'm still over size, or I have another problem.

Best way to resolve this is to send you off to this web page. http://perthsailingphotography.weebly.com/ and you can look at as many H28's and other images as you like. When I'm happy with the website, I'll pay the joining fee and have my own domain, but at the moment it's a work in progress.

Look forward to hearing from you about those H28 plans.

Cheers

Rick

[Phil Y]

Rick, posting pics is eay once you get the hang of it. The trick is you post the url, using the little mountain icon at the top of the quick reply box. Then there's a little bit of fun and games with unticking a box, and the dialog box magically changing when you are not looking.

[Zane Lewis]

Hi Rick,
We had a Ketch version. Not that crash hot hard on the wind but great easied a little.
Ours predated the glass ones. We were a similar length but retained the traditional 3'6" draft. This was great for dropping off passengers as they could jump of the bow sprit and keep their pant's dry.
Also we had a self draining cockpit and bridge deck.
Zane

[Larks]

Rick, I've got my plans here now, Kate posted them over. I won't be able to get up to Perth this or next weekend, but if you're down this way, Rockingham or Mandurah, for any reason you I'd be happy to catch up either through the week or on the weekend (other than next weekend, 20-22 Jul, when Kate's over here of course....)

I've got all of the plans for the H28 here, two have specifics on the sloop rig.

[CapnJ2ds]

Any chance of posting the sloop rig drawings? I've never seen them, and I'd bet that quite a lot of forumites would like to.

[Willin']

Not to challenge the obvious beauty and balance of Bright Star as seen in the video but regarding Jay's comment about the light tiller in heavy winds, I sailed my H-28 in similar conditions, albeit often much rougher water, quite often during the years I lived in Avalon, Catalina Island, and I always experienced a nearly neutral helm once I tucked a reef in the main. Otherwise she always had a healthy, sometimes bordering on arm stretching weather helm as the wind increased towards reeefing velocities.

In flat/ safe sailing conditions a neutral helm is a luxury and a pleasure, but in rough going, I'm happy to know the boat will round up if the helmsman goes over the side.

Something to consider when moving the CE around on a boat.

Just sayin'.

[Larks]

Any chance of posting the sloop rig drawings? I've never seen them, and I'd bet that quite a lot of forumites would like to.

They're plan size so a bit hard to scan and post, but I'll see if I can take a half decent photo of them this evening, (hopefully without breeching any of the copy-write conditions that are stamped on them....).

[Larks]

[CapnJ2ds]

Well done, and thank you!