No-Drama Sailing

[jalmberg]

Since taking up wooden boat building and sailing a few years ago, I've tackled a lot of thorny problems. But nothing like the problem that cropped up this spring. It's such a common problem, that I think it's worth some serious discussion. And some not so serious...

So it was finally here: Spring 2012. And what a spring it had been. The warmest on record. Perfect sailing weather. But the Blue Moon had been stuck at the dock with all her spars and sails out of her.

I'd had a good plan for a normal winter: redo all her running rigging so she'd be strong and easy to sail. It was a plan I'd been working on for over a year -- since returning from my long voyage home. And now I was done. I'd added powerful reefing gear to the main; figured out how to rig the mizzen so it would be easy to raise and lower; and I'd rebuilt her boomkin so it didn't interfere with tilting the outboard out of the water. Fantastic!

I'd replace old halyards, figured out a way to set my flying jib without flying overboard, even learned how to set the topsail, which probably hadn't been set by several past owners.

In short, the Blue Moon was ready for spring and I was raring to take my darling Helena out sailing.

Funny thing was, I couldn't seem to pin her down to a time...

Read complete story: Helena Gets a Notion

So, what do you do to keep your reluctant sailor happy?

[James McMullen]

Katie doesn't really like sailing all that much either. Not really. She likes it okay when it's warm and sunny, and there's not very much wind to make the boat tip. . . .in other words all the times it is boring to sail and I'd rather go paddling.

Our solution? I have my favorite fast, small open boat that I go sailing on by myself, or with a friend or two, and then a different one with a cabin and a wood stove that she humors me by going out with me a few times a year in the summer.

[Yeadon]

You should save your wives the grief and just get rid of those big boats ... both of you. Stick with stuff you can single-hand. Better for everyone.

[Rich Jones]

My wife would only sail in a dead calm.
No sailboat now, but she does enjoy my small power boat (15hp) and pulling boat.

[wizbang 13]

My Honey , who has spent about a year and a half UNDERWAY with me in 30 years , (60,000 miles @ 4 knots) is not really crazy about sailing, especially the ocean bashing. Yes, She is a teacher She is along for the destination, I like the spaces in between, the sailing.

[Canoeyawl]

So, what do you do to keep your reluctant sailor happy?

Perhaps it might be best to carefully plan a few days cruise without her, but arrange to meet in the late afternoons at a few harbor stops, plan for warm summer afternoons with a margarita or two ready at the mooring. This will require planning restraunts and harbors as the destination for each day, and that's not really a bad thing... Along the East coast you can sail most of the day and not be more than a two hour drive from anywhere.

Some folks are terrified when they are asked to participate in anything that requires being tilted at a 30° angle and raised rapidly up and down. (This is not limited to women, they just have less trouble admitting it. It is a lot like riding the roller coaster, some like it some don't).
Now add to that unpredictable tilting business some cold and wet, all while dressed in a very unflattering rubber suit keeping a death grip on anything handy, (and there is the issue of modesty to consider, which will always rear it's ugly head at the exact time when the sailing is best)
It is never going to work. You are defying all logic.


It is a rare woman that likes sailing as a sport. I have sailed with groups of twenty boats and fourty people and more, and I can count the women present on one hand. As a rule they learned to sail as youngsters and became confident and comfortable with it at a young age).

I'm afraid that most women when they hear "let's go sailing" have an image of being admired lounging on the foredeck reading a book ...

[sailoar]

The only gals I know who truly want to go dinghy sailing with me are a married couple, and much tougher than me. Gotta love the Bay.

[Woxbox]

I've found too that it's more about the destination than the trip. But once anticipating the restaurant, shops and showers, they enjoy getting there -- and home again, too.

[Bark]

My wife doesn't love the sailing either, so I try to concentrate on what she DOES love: the social aspect. If we're sailing alone, then she pretty much spends her time reading the newspaper or napping; after 12 years of owning our boat, I don't think she even knows how to tie off the docklines. But if we have guests aboard (particularly folks who haven't been out with us previously), it's another thing entirely. The situation becomes one of hosting, and she'll revel in preparing great snacks/lunch (cooking is a passion of hers), and otherwise doing whatever those who love entertaining do. The best part is when I overhear her explaining to guests details of our boat or of sailing in general that I had no idea she had ever absorbed!

So I'd say success in this area is often a matter of tweaking the formula a little ...

Ben

[Tom3]

Since taking up wooden boat building and sailing a few years ago, I've tackled a lot of thorny problems. But nothing like the problem that cropped up this spring. It's such a common problem, that I think it's worth some serious discussion. And some not so serious...



So, what do you do to keep your reluctant sailor happy?

Wow! This is an amazing topic(nice blog!) and the replies are honest. We've seen many couples, and families, come and go through our sailing life. Even some divorce, and re-couple while moving through a life on the water.

I've come to the conclusion there are no simple fixes to make a couple or family happy to be afloat. But there are many of us out there.

The only thing I've found is that sailing isn't easy. I'm not talking about trimming the sails but the time most people, couples and families have invested on the water, together. Everybody has to give quite a bit.

Both my girls get seasick so I learned long ago to sail for them. That just added more challenge over the years to be a better sailor.

That time we all give is a payment of sorts that later supplies the dividends some couples and families enjoy together on the water. What I enjoy with my wife and family of our life on the water(now college aged), is precious.


I realized long ago, she has a passion to be on the water, to travel, to escape, to walk a beach, to paint, to cook and she likes to do that with her family on a boat, and now, just with me.

These things our boat can supply, and for that reason, she finds our boat, and all it gives her, precious.

I realized some years ago, my wife doesn't have my passion to sail, nor do we have any overlap on boat work in general.

She simply has a passion to be sailing with me.

[jalmberg]

Wow! This is an amazing topic(nice blog!) and the replies are honest. We've seen many couples, and families, come and go through our sailing life. Even some divorce, and re-couple while moving through a life on the water.

I've come to the conclusion there are no simple fixes to make a couple or family happy to be afloat. But there are many of us out there.

The only thing I've found is that sailing isn't easy. I'm not talking about trimming the sails but the time most people, couples and families have invested on the water, together. Everybody has to give quite a bit.

Both my girls get seasick so I learned long ago to sail for them. That just added more challenge over the years to be a better sailor.

That time we all give is a payment of sorts that later supplies the dividends some couples and families enjoy together on the water. What I enjoy with my wife and family of our life on the water(now college aged), is precious.


I realized long ago, she has a passion to be on the water, to travel, to escape, to walk a beach, to paint, to cook and she likes to do that with her family on a boat, and now, just with me.

These things our boat can supply, and for that reason, she finds our boat, and all it gives her, precious.

I realized some years ago, my wife doesn't have my passion to sail, nor do we have any overlap on boat work in general.

She simply has a passion to be sailing with me.

Yes, I think we're all on the same page, here... That's why I've been using the phrase 'No-Drama Sailing', in my blog, and in talking to Helena.

Helena has no problem with 'excitement', so it's not 'No-Excitement Sailing', or 'No-Fun Sailing' that we're after. What she doesn't like is drama...

Now, there's a fine line there that I'm still trying to understand, but 'No-Drama' sailing so far seems to be very close to 'Good Seamanship' sailing.

[johngsandusky]

It takes time. Two previous women in my life loved sailing. My wonderful wife loves the beach, but was suspicious of this boat, and resented how much of my time it took. Over time, with patience, we sailed on nice days, with fun people. Now she suggests "Let's go to the boat this weekend". And I have striven to make the boat comfortable for her. I keep it clean, bring things she wants. We've overnighted a few times, we have our first cruise together planned for July.

[Rich Jones]

It takes time. Two previous women in my life loved sailing. My wonderful wife loves the beach, but was suspicious of this boat, and resented how much of my time it took. Over time, with patience, we sailed on nice days, with fun people. Now she suggests "Let's go to the boat this weekend". And I have striven to make the boat comfortable for her. I keep it clean, bring things she wants. We've overnighted a few times, we have our first cruise together planned for July.

Even nicer now since you fixed the big hole in the bow!
Cruising around L.I. Sound or beyond?
Have a great time!

[Tom3]

Yes, I think we're all on the same page, here... That's why I've been using the phrase 'No-Drama Sailing', in my blog, and in talking to Helena.

Helena has no problem with 'excitement', so it's not 'No-Excitement Sailing', or 'No-Fun Sailing' that we're after. What she doesn't like is drama...

Now, there's a fine line there that I'm still trying to understand, but 'No-Drama' sailing so far seems to be very close to 'Good Seamanship' sailing.

She obviously likes spending time with you, so no problem there.

I'd say you understand your job, to take the drama out of sailing. That will take some doing on your part. Maybe try to plan your outings around light conditions to try to create the type of sailing that makes people smile, even the nervous ones.

On her part, she'll have to get out and try to get some experience, if she really wants to get out on the water in the boat.

If there are any other reasons she may be reluctant to go, see if you can find out what they are.

I spend a lot of time hauling stuff on and off the boat that my wife thinks she'll need or want, and don't protest(maybe in jest).

For instance, I'll lug her bag of paints, brushes, easel, onboard and off, even though I know she won't use them. It just makes her feel better to think she can, if she wants.

For her part, she puts up with my fastidiousness on board(still goes her own way, and I don't complain), even though that in no way exists at home. A boat is a delicate balance.

[James McMullen]

But what if you like--nay, even prefer the drama? I don't think you can convince someone to like something they just don't like.

That requires some different trips, otherwise you're both compromising, all the time. And that's too much of a compromise. You need a balance.

[John B]

The most important thing about taking someone out who is not happy about sailing, is that they feel that they can trust whoever is in charge of the boat. So I get what you're saying about drama, even if its a dramatic or exciting situation it needs to be handled without drama.

[skuthorp]

I long ago decided that buying or building a bigger boat would not change my wife's lack of security on the water, so I stuck to what I now and have always enjoyed, small boats, even wet boats, tender boats that keep you on your mettle. Sea kayaks now as well. She even encourages me to go out on good days. Life is too short to waste time.

[John B]

Just get a bit worried when she encourages you to go out on bad days eh Jeff.

[John B]

I spose the big thing is you need to know how to show yer wife a good time sailing.



p'raps I'll shut up now......

[Woxbox]

Also, the bigger the boat, the happier she is. A big cruising cat full of family and friends will do it. But

[Woxbox]

.....it does get pricey.

[jalmberg]

I have a friend who let his wife pick out the boat. They ended up with a 38' Moody, with a glass-enclosed shower.

Unfortunately, it was too much boat for him, and he scared her once too often. Now she doesn't sail, and he can't single-hand the boat.

Oh, and he bought it at the peak of the market, so has probably lost $100K.

How not to do it... :-)

[62816inBerlin]

Also, the bigger the boat, the happier she is. A big cruising cat full of family and friends will do it. But ...

A) where are the ladies' comments on this thread?
B) @Woxbox: not always the case. Pam wanted a boat bigger than the Mirror when her back started giving trouble, but nothing so big that I'd consider offshore cruising. She enjoys sailing on dinghy-sized and perhaps a bit bigger craft, even under pretty windy conditions, but suffers from seasickness aboard bigger craft.
C) Most dramas (even in our family) occur when going alongside, entering locks and similar maneouvres. Usually because the skipper is unable to express her/himself in plain language and the crew is unable to understand all that nautical jargon she/he is shouting. I still find it difficult to adjust in this respect.

Cheers,

Gernot H.

[James McMullen]

A) where are the ladies' comments on this thread?

Ladies don't sail much. That's the whole point of this thread. The rare exceptions are RARE.

There really aren't even very many here on the forum. Is it even 25%? 15%? Seems like much less, especially in the techno-weenie parts of the forum.

[John B]

They might be rare here but plenty of women sail, yacht clubs are full of them.
Many of the women I count as friends sail, two of them own their own 42 ft keel yachts. Another just returned from 8000 miles Panama to NZ, and I just sailed to Fiji with her as part of the crew.

[James McMullen]

What's the relative proportion of them, John? Which of them would be part of the yacht club on their own if they weren't married to a sailor? Don't fool yourself by cherry-picking data, not if you want to really understand the problem.

Noting that there are some women sailors is just as erroneous as noting that there are some women who go fishing. It's missing the point.

[John B]

Yes James ,I know that talking yacht club is already selected out but the fact is that virtually every cruising yacht has a male and female crew component regardless of which gender is more passionate about it. Out coastal or offshore cruising ,the exception is the all male crew. Racing is weighted well towards male but girls youth racing and womens series are very strong .
I'm not missing any point, I've observed new people getting into the sport or the lifestyle for 30 years. I've seen women hook men by pretending to love sailing because thats their ( the mans)passion ,and then force the sale of the boat when its all a done deal. I've seen men who are not skilled enough or confident scare the crap out of their partners by losing their rag , thereby exhibiting their lack of ability , and lose their lifestyle after one incident. They usually end up selling the boat or go racing. And of course there's going to be plenty of partners who go along with their partners wishes, but so what... they're there.

My point is that if I anchor in a bay for the night at christmas and theres 2 or 30 or 300 boats in the near vicinty, most of those will have a male and a female on board because mostly we see couples and families. So there are plenty of women who do enjoy sailing and if they don't so much, enjoy the lifestyle and the community.

[StevenBauer]

I guess I'm pretty lucky that Mary loves sailing so much.



Steven

[Yeadon]

What's the relative proportion of them, John? Which of them would be part of the yacht club on their own if they weren't married to a sailor? Don't fool yourself by cherry-picking data, not if you want to really understand the problem.

Noting that there are some women sailors is just as erroneous as noting that there are some women who go fishing. It's missing the point.

I think women who sail would rather go sailing than hang out on a forum with, well, the guys who hang out here. That's why the ratios are so skewed here. It has more to do with internet usage than sailboat usage.

[Tom3]

Ladies don't sail much. That's the whole point of this thread. The rare exceptions are RARE.

There really aren't even very many here on the forum. Is it even 25%? 15%? Seems like much less, especially in the techno-weenie parts of the forum.

There are less women sailing, but I wouldn't say rare, not at all.

Most of the sailors we know are couples. In more than a few cases, the woman is the more avid and some brought their male partners into sailing. I'd have to say the minority of boats we've seen over the years, are sailed by a single guy or girl.

My wife doesn't go on my "my sailing chat rooms" as she calls them.

[Skegemog]

This is a very interesting topic to me all the more for knowing an exception to the rule who is most definitely not my wife. My wife I met as I was disembarking from a multi-day offshore sailing trip down the east coast with a group of buddies and it never even occurred to me that she wouldn't love sailing. Hell I met her on a dock. But sure enough, after weathering a windy and lightning filled squall on the Chesapeake, she quickly started to disengage herself from any kind of boating.

It really struck me how much she loathes being on a boat one exquisite July day a couple of summers ago. We were in my family's 26' CC Continental twin with several other family members charging up the Caribbean blue, glass smooth Torch lake under a windless but brilliant blue sky doing probably 35 mph. Ecstatic for me as I assumed for everybody on the boat except that I noticed that my poor wife was gritting her teeth just trying to endure the experience. (I would just point out here that unskillful and/or thoughtless boat handling is highly disapproved of in my family)

Which brings me to the exception to the rule who was also on board that day loving every second, my 85 year old mother, who absolutely loves sailing and power boating. I had her out with me that same summer in our Joel White 23 beating to windward for 3 hours in two reef breeze with spray blasting over the coaming and when I was about to pickup our mooring she wanted to stay out.

Once I realized that my wife just doesn't like the feeling of being on a boat and that forcing her into it was unfair it it has been easier for me to recalibrate my boating for single-handing or going with friends

[MiddleAgesMan]

Both of my ex-wives tolerated the time spent on our Gazelle, with coastal trips and two trips across to the Bahamas. Both of them were prone to seasickness, however, which is why I say "tolerated." I doubt if either of them has set foot on a boat since we split. One of them rides a Harley now, the other one stays holed up somwhere with her books, feet firmly planted on the soil.

Current wife has been out on my Simmons exactly one time.

[John B]

Its a good thread and an interesting discussion. Since posting this morning I'd add that I don't disagree with James' points so much but think it worth saying that there are a heck of a lot of women out there sailing and enjoying it or if they aren't so passionate about the mechanics of the sailing part, they are satisfied with the lifestyle , they enjoy the social aspects and the anchored in paradise aspects.
And thats worth knowing for John who I think is right on the money when he distinguishes between excitement and drama ,and is absolutely right when talking about sailing lessons or anything else that will increase knowledge and experience and therefore confidence for Helena to enjoy and look forward to getting out there.
I love it , there's nothing better when your family are hoping mid week that you're all going out sailing for the weekend. For many years we became bored with day trips and would only go out if we could have two nights on the pick. Right now though , we're in a new stage where our gregarious daughter ( the youngest)is asking bunches of friends out for a day or maybe an overnighter if they pass the first test, thats rewarding and is adding a new dimension to the boat useage.

[purri]

That's it in a nutshell!

The most important thing about taking someone out who is not happy about sailing, is that they feel that they can trust whoever is in charge of the boat. So I get what you're saying about drama, even if its a dramatic or exciting situation it needs to be handled without drama.

[Tom3]

There's one other factor I've noticed with couples and sailing over the years. I've seen people buy into the life style sailing portrays, in the media and on the docks. They think you just step into it.

How many times has Ralph Lauren or LL Bean used a pretty sailboat, the white sails against a blue sea and sky, people on deck living large, to sell their wares?

Then the romance of sailing just doesn't happen for a couple or family that enters the life, and the boat goes up for re- sale.

Sometimes I've seen the wife get blamed when in fact, the husband found it wasn't his thing after all.

It's not an easy thing going sailing with a partner or a family. It takes work and time to sail well alone or together.

[Woxbox]

That's all true. But mostly, I think a person has to enjoy the bad weather as much as the good. SWMBO's not too big on excesses of weather, but when the days are like those in the commercials, she's happy as a clam. Fortunately for me, we live in a region with lots of mild and predictable days.

[Phil Y]

Lots of good responses. My wife was not a sailor pre-me. In our younger days I subjected her to some terrible boats. We nearly sunk once on a very large inland lake in South Australia-the boat was just falling apart, leaking at every seam when the water got a bit rough. We honeymooned on my Tumlaren! We've had various boats over the years, a few small ones and a couple of big ones. I think confidence is a big part of it. She doesn't want to be scared. And if I'm not scared, she won't be. I think she likes to take some responsibility for the boat, not just be ordered around. Why is it that on so many boats the bloke is always doing the steering, while the little woman handles the anchor? We share the planning decisions-but in a tight spot democracy has no place on board. She likes a bit of comfort, good food, time ashore. She will endure a tough passage, and be well satisfied at having got through in good shape-she still speaks with pride I think of our trip down the East coast of oz a few years back when all our crew got sick, the weather was awful and on the nose, and the two of stood watch on watch for 3 days and nights. She's grown into it over the years-and now pushes for a sailing holiday every now and then just as much as I do. She still resents money going on the boat though

[Rich Jones]

Reading all these replies is making me feel better about my wife's reluctance to sailing. I'm currently researching designs for a 13-14' daysailer. Some folks are telling me to go bigger, but I know for a fact that I'll be sailing solo 99% of the time.

[jalmberg]

How Helena's first sailing lesson went:

http://www.unlikelyboatbuilder.com/2.../lesson-1.html

<sigh>

[upchurchmr]

Richard,

You can sail a bigger boat singlehanded, but you won't stuff her in a 14' for long. Plan ahead.

[Yeadon]

The most important thing about taking someone out who is not happy about sailing, is that they feel that they can trust whoever is in charge of the boat. So I get what you're saying about drama, even if its a dramatic or exciting situation it needs to be handled without drama.

This is a great point.