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Thread: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

  1. #141
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    Eric, what about using plastic cable tie's as fathom markers on your lead line ? Small ones are available in multiple colours.

  2. #142
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    Just tie an overhand knot. Hence the term... Knots per hour. Double knot at larger increments?

    I tied a couple 5 gallon water cooler drums around my centerboard once, one either side. Made a difference compared to being empty. Camping gear makes up for it though.

    I would like to make a grate for the space between my cb case and mast partner to keep gear out of the water that I seem to inevitably acquire. Also for the forepeak. If I pack too tightly, and I pull the mast out, then all the gear falls into that space, and I can't easily throw the mast back up. 'tis bothersome.
    There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

    Ben Sebens, RN

  3. #143
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    Quote Originally Posted by JDMH View Post
    Eric, what about using plastic cable tie's as fathom markers on your lead line ? Small ones are available in multiple colours.
    Hey, that's an idea. Maybe the ties would be 'spliced' through the line itself, clipped off short and compact. What I have works for now - it will be study in the bleeding and staying properties of the Sharpie. Also true that the lead ball is less than ideal - wants to roll away when you put it down! I don't think
    authentic sounding leads look like this. Even an oblong sort of fishing weight would not roll around. Use watcha got.
    thks
    Eric

  4. #144
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    I'm really enjoying this thread - it's always interesting to see the little details that make such a big difference in how well a boat works. Not to mention the great photos of a beautiful boat.

    A traditional lead is a longish cylinder - similar to a sash weight, with a hollow in the bottom for some tallow to sample the bottom (bet that would make a mess in a small boat...). Traditional markings were what now sounds like a bizarre collection of fabrics and leather tassels with and without holes - the idea being you could read it by feel in the dark. I think short leather strings spliced through the line would be durable and easy on the hands. A line full of cables ties makes my hands hurt just thinking about it.

  5. #145
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    . . . a sash weight, yes that is something like what I had in mind. I'll make due with the cannonball for awhile. In Barkley Sound I improvised a lead line using the bow painter with overhand knots. And a small graupal anchor - I was desperate. The part about using knots was fine.

    I also thought of sewing contrasting thread at the fathom marks, but this sounds tedious. I've seen somebody do a feathery thing. Interesting rebuttal on the wire ties. Leather, there's another idea.

    Even before Bandwagon's remodel, a mast tube was retrofitted for the spritsail rig. I nearly lost control once or twice under extreme duress pulling the rig without a tube - the scissor effect. With a mast gate and a three sided box in Bandwagon for the new rig, I have the option of lowering straight away or pulling up (about 16") and dropping the mast. I don't think I've used the gate yet on the water - but who knows, someday there may be reason to hunker down in the boat and lower away. When the boat is on the trailer and I'm fiddling with the rig - I often use that gate. I think a mast tube, or box or whatever, is a good idea. Both to keep the mast clear, and to organize things around it. Most especially for an unstayed oar and sail boat experiencing frequent transitions.

    My floorboards cover where ever I will step in the boat. They extend just ahead of the mast and carry
    aft to the stern sheets. I like em - but they do not elevate my gear, feet, or rear end much above a wet bilge. It is a trade off between interior depth and bilge clearance. There would also be the time required to neatly fit floor timbers for an elevated bilge.
    Last edited by Eric Hvalsoe; 11-03-2012 at 07:49 PM.

  6. #146
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    Referencing Barkley Sound -
    Even with all the camping gear, Bandwagon was steadier and dryer in the rough stuff than I've ever seen her, carrying an addtional 70 or 80 lbs of 'water ballast' centrally nested around the CB case. Turned out I did not
    drink nearly as much of my water ballast as anticipated.

  7. #147
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Hvalsoe View Post
    Referencing Barkley Sound -
    Even with all the camping gear, Bandwagon was steadier and dryer in the rough stuff than I've ever seen her, carrying an addtional 70 or 80 lbs of 'water ballast' centrally nested around the CB case. Turned out I did not
    drink nearly as much of my water ballast as anticipated.


    Interesting. I may mimic this on my next (eventual) trip. I find Matty to somewhat lively at times.
    There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

    Ben Sebens, RN

  8. #148
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    [QUOTE=Eric Hvalsoe;3582703]Ah, another critical piece of ground gear - the lead line.
    This was hastilly put together for the last San Juans trip with a small 'cannonbal' from the local commercial fishing supply outfit, some cheap nylon line and . . . a sharpie for marking fathoms. The sharpie has bled a little bit, but the marking system is still decipherable. I'm sure there are more elegant solutions (suggestions) - but it's gotta be simple.QUOTE]

    Eric,

    I must not have shown you my lead line during the Barkley Sound trip. Like yours, it uses a cannonball fishing weight but I use 3-stranded line with pieces of flagging tape pulled through the strands to mark the intervals. I use 2 colours, yellow for 10 ft intervals and red for 50 ft intervals. Easy to see, waterproof and easy on the hands. I keep my lead line in a cloth bag to keep it from getting tangled with other lines but handy for deploying.
    Alex

    "A man who is not afraid of the sea will soon be drowned, for he will be going out on a day he shouldn't. We do be afraid of the sea, and we only be drowned now and again" Aran Islands Fisherman

  9. #149
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    [QUOTE=Eric Hvalsoe;3583484]. . I also thought of sewing contrasting thread at the fathom marks, but this sounds tedious. I've seen somebody do a feathery thing. Interesting rebuttal on the wire ties. Leather, there's another idea.

    QUOTE]

    Eric down here we can buy fishing line that changes colour every fathom or so- designed so that fisherman know that their bait is at the depth the fish are holding according to the sounder. Fishing line on a reel doesn't take up any room on your boat- and you can always add a hook and drown a worm when you get bored sailing JayInOz

  10. #150
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    Thanks for this photo , the same thing on the luff will be the way I go on JIM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Yeadon View Post


    This setup is pretty much exactly what Rowan and Big Food have. I think Rowan has the same setup at the tack and clew. Big Food has the same jiffy reefing setup at the clew, but not the tack. At the tack, I've just lashed a snapshackle to the boom. From experience, I like to get the tack pulled down as tight as possible to the boom before going back to the clew and setting the reef point there prior to tightening up the jiffy reefing.

    (There's no right way, but this describes my way.)
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  11. #151
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    Alex,
    Flagging tape. I'll check that out. For some reason I don't remember looking at your line - but I do remember thinking that your intervals were unique. Maybe this is the feathery thing in the back of my brain.

    Pyschotropic fishing line in Oz!

  12. #152
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Thanks for this photo , the same thing on the luff will be the way I go on JIM.
    Peter - it appears that that Rowan, Big Food, and Bandwagon (can't speak for Alex), now all have a differient variation for reefing arrangements on the mainsail luff. When I found a carabiner large enough to stack three grommets, I decided to park it on the first luff reef grommet, same as the leech. I did not want this large grommet flopping around at the boom end. On the down side this requires adding another small cleat on the boom. On the up side, my arrangement on the luff consists of a single length of line from the carabiner, through a beehole at the tip of the boom, and back to a cleat. A lot like the leech, but simpler. I'll get a picture up sometime.

    At the luff, it is possible to just pull the tack of the sail down to the corner of the boom.

    At the leech, you are pulling the clew of the sail both down and aft for outhaul tension. The reefing line starts as a loop around the boom - this loop should have some travel, its location will be adjusted as you go from one reef to another. You become aware of directionality and hardware orientation to get things to pull just right.

  13. #153
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    A view of Bandwagon's mizzen step arrangement. In some ways it would have been easier to plant the mizzen in the middle of the stern seating area - a plywood mast partner spanning under the existing seating and a simple step planted on the keel apron. I then would have had to rethink how I use and access the area for storage.

    The partner consists of a spruce and plywood lamination secured to the transom seating cleat and an additional knee. The 'step' is a small section of aluminum angle. Since the picture was taken a pin has been threaded onto the angle piece. The pin fits into a bushing set into the base of the mast. This was the beta set up, thus aluminum, but I see no reason to change it. It could have been done in bronze. This is an odd corner, it remains open without creating any dirt or debris traps. A quick release middle stern seat panel is cut out for the small elevated step.


  14. #154
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    So your mizzen is slightly off-center?
    There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

    Ben Sebens, RN

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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    Quote Originally Posted by BBSebens View Post
    So your mizzen is slightly off-center?
    Ya. Part of my description would make more sense with a picture of the stern sheets and quick release center panel in place. I'll work on it.

    This is an unobtrusive solution in an area that was already carefully laid out. Aesthetics and function go hand in hand.

  16. #156
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    You'll find that once you heave-to and weathercock that your boat will start to drift backwards. The helm will flop to one side or another and she'll hunt back and forth a bit. Having your mizzen a touch off center doesn't make that much of a difference. And Hvalsoe's is like an inch off center, which on a little boat like ours is basically on center - especially as you run for and aft and the balance is always moving.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

  17. #157
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeadon View Post
    You'll find that once you heave-to and weathercock that your boat will start to drift backwards. The helm will flop to one side or another and she'll hunt back and forth a bit.
    I know this very very well now. It can help greatly (getting out of irons) or be a major PITA (keeping you beam to the wind when raising sail).

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeadon View Post
    And Hvalsoe's is like an inch off center, which on a little boat like ours is basically on center - especially as you run for and aft and the balance is always moving.
    I was just about to say this... An inch off center matters little unless the loading on the boat is perfectly symmetrical athwartships, and never moves. I'd call BS on anyone who thinks they'd ever notice any effect from it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yeadon View Post
    Double-enders are optimistic.

  18. #158
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    Quote Originally Posted by bott View Post
    It can help greatly (getting out of irons) or be a major PITA (keeping you beam to the wind when raising sail).
    Eric, I remember that you have notches under your steer-stick to index the rudder straight for times like this. Do you other guys do something similar? It seems another good benefit of the stick over a tiller - no need for a tiller-tamer bungie across the boat.

  19. #159
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    For me being able to set the rudder is mandatory. For heaving to in the manner Tim describes, I don't want the rudder jacking back and forth or slamming against the transom. Maybe other folks just go with the flow - I set the rudder and pushstick with my saddle pin arrangement. If I had a tiller, I'd use a bungee cord. I'm still getting the hang of heaving to with this boat. It requires just the right tick of the rudder and stick, just so on mizzen trim, and a certain sense of timing. Early efforts often sent the boat onto the other tack.

    I can't imagine the barely off center mizzen position makes a bit of difference.

    It is interesting that my approximately 10 sq ft mizzen is Tim's former mizzen for Big Food. It is set further aft in Bandwagon, and seems to do the trick for trimming and heaving to. Horsepower not so much, but this seems not to be needed.

    I love being able to sail hands off, sometimes for quite long stretches.

  20. #160
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    Quote Originally Posted by sailoar View Post
    Eric, I remember that you have notches under your steer-stick to index the rudder straight for times like this. Do you other guys do something similar? It seems another good benefit of the stick over a tiller - no need for a tiller-tamer bungie across the boat.
    Depending on the boat's layout, you can do a notched comb with a conventional tiller, too. No need for bungies. (Someday I may be convinced the merits of the push-pull tiller outweight the features I don't like, but I'm not going to give away any easy points...)

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  21. #161
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    A tiller comb would be more convenient than a bungee - if you had a tiller, and if you had an aft deck upon which to set the comb.

    I think the choice of steering mechanism has to do, among other things, with where you want to drive the boat, your boat, from. I'm all over the place. I spend plenty of time in the aft cockpit area. Then again I sometimes drive from the midship thwart, or even settle down further forward. It depends on load, trim, point of sail, and conditions. A nine foot tiller is out of the question, A long tiller and long extension sounds awkward (although someone will probably try it). Bandwagon has no deck for a tiller comb. Oops, and there is the matter of the mizzen. That pretty much leaves me with either rope steering or pushstick. I'm staying pushstick.
    Last edited by Eric Hvalsoe; 12-06-2012 at 04:26 PM.

  22. #162
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    I never would have imagined that being an inch or two off center would make a functional difference.
    There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

    Ben Sebens, RN

  23. #163
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    Quote Originally Posted by BBSebens View Post
    I never would have imagined that being an inch or two off center would make a functional difference.
    I understand. You were just asking. Sometime you'll have to tell about the polar bear society.

  24. #164

    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    Yeadon jokes about waiting for the Hvalsoe 19. Are you designing a larger sail and oar boat?

  25. #165
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    That is nice of you to ask Blueridge. Yes the taunts have some effect. I have developed a set of lines for a 19' by 5' hull. At least, I am carrying on with developing them. I may tweak the fullness in the stern ever so slightly, run a few calculations, sketch out a sailplan. I'm not using a computer. I am driving at the purist sail and oar ethic for the next design or two. This is just the challenge I've taken on at the moment, not the only kind of boat I will ever have any interest in. I have enjoyed quite a few different kinds of boats in my life. I also think 18 ft is a good target for this sort of thing, particularly for a solo adventurer. Too bad a fella's gotta work in the meantime.
    Cheers,

  26. #166
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    Hurray!!
    There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

    Ben Sebens, RN

  27. #167
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    The lines for the 19 are real ... and they're spectacular.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

  28. #168

    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    Can you share what you have learned from your Hvalsoe 16, and how that informs your design of the Hvalsoe 19?
    Last edited by blueridgebuilder; 12-11-2012 at 04:05 AM.

  29. #169
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    Got the question. I'll throw out some sort of intelligent response shortly.
    From morning coffee on my iPhone

  30. #170
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    Let's finish the tour of Bandwagon, complete the thought so to speak, before I get into lessons learned.

    Previously I showed some detail of the mizzen step. Four years ago I was not imagining a mizzen, much less a boomkin. Yet I find the boomkin to be very little trouble.





    The camera angle exaggerates things a bit in the second picture, but you get the idea. The boomkin overhang is about three feet. I have found it is wise to have a bit more boomkin past the turning block - the sheet occasionally loops around the tail which is not good.

    The mizzen sprit yard is fine - but with a bigger sail plan, possibly sometime even with this rig on Bandwagon, I might favor a conventional jawed boom to manage one reef position. Maybe I've been out in 20 knots, reefing the mizzen not yet an issue.

  31. #171
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    I always enjoy how Eric makes beta parts before really changing things up on Bandwagon.

    I tend to sketch, then pattern, then make new parts and hope for the best. My time isn't worth that much. I can just make another new piece. However, Eric is really thorough. He'll stare at it, draw it, talk it through, sleep on it, make a pattern, then make a beta model out of cheap pine, test it, tweak it, then once he's finally ready - he'll make the real piece and install it.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

  32. #172
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeadon View Post
    I always enjoy how Eric makes beta parts before really changing things up on Bandwagon.

    I tend to sketch, then pattern, then make new parts and hope for the best. My time isn't worth that much. I can just make another new piece. However, Eric is really thorough. He'll stare at it, draw it, talk it through, sleep on it, make a pattern, then make a beta model out of cheap pine, test it, tweak it, then once he's finally ready - he'll make the real piece and install it.
    Tim warned me about the sheet looping around the end of the boomkin . . .

  33. #173
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    Maybe you can invent the cordless bluetooth mizzen. Guaranteed to never foul when you least expect it.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

  34. #174
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    Maybe you need a small diameter piece of bungy cord with a loop on the end, round the sheet and lead from the sheet down to the boomkin, kind of like a barberhaul or a vang
    Alex

    "A man who is not afraid of the sea will soon be drowned, for he will be going out on a day he shouldn't. We do be afraid of the sea, and we only be drowned now and again" Aran Islands Fisherman

  35. #175
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    Default Re: Eric Hvalsoe and the HV-16

    I'm using a dumb sheave instead of a block on my boomkin hoping it's even more foolproof and un-foulable. A sail with an area unde 20 sf really doesn't need any respect.

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