Delamination-Meranti B1088

[SBrookman]

Ah, the joys of boat building. I had just spiled my first planks ever, garboards for a 16' Melonseed. It was one of those tasks that when reading about sounds complex but no so bad in practice. Reminded me of plotting fixes in celestial nav. I was pleased, somewhat surprised, when the planks actually fit on the molds, and where they were supposed to.

Arghh, the agony of boat building. While beveling the garboards the Hydrotek 6mm Meranti B1088 marine ply began separating and revealed an 14" run of delamination:

Has anyone else had this problem with Meranti, or am I just lucky? Of course it was already epoxied on, so removing it didn't seem to be a good option (but probably the correct one.) I shot the void full of CPES and saturated it with epoxy, clamped and hoped for the best.

The plywood had been stored in an unheated garage for 9 months, but I would hope that marine ply could handle some dampness if its designed to used in the ocean.

[JimD]

I'm sure you're not the only lucky one. Unfortunately, anyone can stamp 1088 on a piece of plywood these days.

[wizbang 13]

Hard to tell from the photo what is going on.
Bad luck is bad luck , on the other hand , I am not a believer in coincidence.
Seen any other de lams in your stock?

[Tom Painter]

Is that a delamination of the glue line or did a core veneer shear itself apart?

[skaraborgcraft]

Bummer. A close up photo of the endgrain would be good. I have had some el-cheapo 6mm chiense WBP ply in storage for more than 2 years and found that it had been leaked on after a tile slippage on the roof.....however....although there was some minor warp in the sheet,the gluelines have held,cant say i expected that. Alas BS1088 as a standard does not seem to guarentee good ply,though i believe Hydrotek is a well known supplier of quality sheets? You may have been unlucky, but i agree with you when you say they should stay together even if being in a damp shed for 9 months.

[SBrookman]

The separation is between the middle glue lines. I have 3 sheets of 6mm and 4 of 5mm from the same order and only the one sheet is showing any delamination. Of course that one didn't show it until I cut a plank out of it and I started planing. Here is the sheet that the plank was cut from.(the separation occurred gradually, it didn't look like this until the next day:

When I saw the separation appear on the top (bottom) edge of the plank I thought I was dealing with a small localized problem. And being in a self-induced rush I HAD to get the bottom on within my scheduled time frame, so now I have the bottom w/skeg already on. A classic case of ready, shoot, aim...but now how do I deal with it? Nothing will come off without great difficulty if at all, so it looks like I'm in the repair mode already. I am, or was, planning to cloth and epoxy the garboards and bottom so it will be sealed, but I need to do something about the delams.

[sailoar]

I'm afraid you're not the only one:

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...1088-Woes-ARGH!!!!

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...hear-me-SCREAM

It's what my local supplier sells. It's so affordable. It's so tempting. I got lucky with my build. But next time, I promised myself I'll pop for the Joubert okoume, even with the cross-country shipping.

[Sayla]

Do you guys have an American Standard? - our A.S. numbers pretty well guarantee us the good stuff, but BS numbers here might be just that, 'BS' from places (generally to the north) that look and guess.

sayla

[SBrookman]

I'm afraid you're not the only one:

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...1088-Woes-ARGH!!!!

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...hear-me-SCREAM

It's what my local supplier sells. It's so affordable. It's so tempting. I got lucky with my build. But next time, I promised myself I'll pop for the Joubert okoume, even with the cross-country shipping.

Thanks for letting me know others have had the same issue. I should have done more research, but I doubt I would have splurged on more expensive stuff without having cut out a plank before. Just didn't know I was getting such an inferior product.

I see some repair options too: cutting slits and oozing even more epoxy. Is there any recourse dealing with the manufacturer? I will have to deal with the distributor on Monday to see at least about getting a replacement sheet.

It's a real bummer, after finally getting around to building to be taking steps backward.

[TerryLL]

My sincere condolences. What a pisser.
I used meranti marine ply some years ago and had serious delam problems, and numerous voids in the inner plies. I bit the bullet on my current build and went with the Joubert Okoume. It was quite expensive, about $120 a sheet for 9mm, but so far it has been absolutely perfect. All the plies are the same thickness (no thin surface plies) and zero voids or delams.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

The designation "BS 1088" is a statement of quality signifying this ply meets a certain set of established standards. The standards have been discontinued by the BS organization but they have remained in common use and anyone who claims his ply meets the standards should be willing to warrantee any that is obviously defective.
Your ply does not meet British Standard 1088. Ply that is BS1088 shouldn't delam even if you boiled a piece for 24 straight hours. The largest void it can contain is .020" total. The manufacturer should be willing to refund or replace. That is if the manufacturer is known.

Ply that carries a label like Shelmarine, Joubert or Bruynzeel is a better bet to warrantee their stuff because they have a name to protect.

[wizbang 13]

geezus, better you than me, FWIW (zero).
I was getting to like meranti aqua tek for its hardness ,( using thinner ply than okume fer instance).
Well, this is what the forum is good for I recon, ...

[David G]

I've used more than a few sheets of Hydrotek and Aquatek with nary an issue. I agree that you should - at the very least - be reimbursed for the sheet that was bad. It's almost impossible to convince a dealer or mfgr. to accept any liability beyond that.

[epoxyboy]

The designation "BS 1088" is a statement of quality signifying this ply meets a certain set of established standards. The standards have been discontinued by the BS organization but they have remained in common use and anyone who claims his ply meets the standards should be willing to warrantee any that is obviously defective.
Your ply does not meet British Standard 1088. Ply that is BS1088 shouldn't delam even if you boiled a piece for 24 straight hours. The largest void it can contain is .020" total. The manufacturer should be willing to refund or replace. That is if the manufacturer is known.

Ply that carries a label like Shelmarine, Joubert or Bruynzeel is a better bet to warrantee their stuff because they have a name to protect.

As Chuck says, BS1088 does not exist any more(and hasn't for several years). Not all meranti is bad, but there is some real crap out there, as you have found. I found Joubert exterior grade construction ply was streets ahead of half the stuff that is supposedly marine grade - same glue, less voids and nicer face ply's. The other thing is that meranti is a bit like pine as there are numerous varieties. It can range from almost like mahogany to soft pale splintery garbage. I think you'll find that cutting out the planks and cleaning up the frames won't be as bad as you think, and with better quality ply you won't have that sense of nagging doubt when you get on the water. Major PITA I know, but not as bad as an unplanned swim due to structural failure.

Pete

[SV Papillon]

I have used a lot of meranti on my boat the quality the hydro and aqua from Eden saw were all fine and no issues, but I only bought from them when I needed a larger quantity. The rest came from a local hardware store that has good stock in marine lumber. It seemed like every once and a while they would have a bad sheet but no brand name just the bs1088. Like you it would only show up well into a sheet. As suggested above it seems name brands count

[Zakkendrager]

Referring to TerryLL's response related to Joubert Okume, I bought 12 sheets or so of that material in 1/2" for my project and found minor delamination in one sheet after I cut it. Since it was only part of the cabin and was going to be reinforced with a structural member at the seam, I filled it with some epoxy and let it go. So, even the supposedly "good stuff" is not perfect. Ralph

[SBrookman]

The distributor agreed to replace the defective sheet and give a break on packing and shipping on additional sheets. Seems a fair deal but if I'm still stuck dealing with the defective planks. Of course I will be inspecting all future cuts very closely because I didn't notice it this time until I had already trimmed, attached and began planing. And my vision really isn't that bad...with glasses anyway.