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Thread: A brilliant political stroke

  1. #1
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    Default A brilliant political stroke

    When Obama announced his immigration initiative a few days back, I immediately thought he had made a brilliant political move....

    Now, Roger Simon explains why and how, in an excellent piece:

    In politics, when the going gets tough, the tough have to get very, very smart.

    After days of bad news, bumbles and bobbles, Barack Obama got smart last week. In fact, he got downright brilliant.

    Bypassing the sucking, hopeless, sinkhole that is the U.S. Congress, Obama announced a new immigration policy, one that invokes an old, and therefore legal, power: He is taking “deferred action” on whether to proceed against hundreds of thousands of people who came to this country illegally.

    It is not permanent. He, or any other president, can revoke it. And therein lies part of the brilliance.

    Obama is saying to young immigrants who are in school, have graduated from high school or served in the U.S. military and have not gotten in trouble with the law: OK, you can stay. For now.
    Further, you can travel on the passport of your country of origin (Mexico or China, for instance) and be allowed back into the United States.

    And you will be given a card called an Employment Authorization Document that will allow you to legally get a job.

    But what the president did not do is also important. Nobody will be handed a permanent resident card, commonly called a green card. Nobody is being promised citizenship or is being put on a path to citizenship.

    And, importantly, you have to come “out of the shadows” and apply for your EAD card. You must register. The card will bear your photograph and fingerprint and a number that allows you to be tracked. You also have to pay your taxes.

    So far, Hispanic and civil rights groups have hailed this as a good deal. It is not the DREAM Act, which would have put people on track for a green card and eventual citizenship. But versions of the DREAM Act have been kicking around for years, and in 2010 the Republicans in the Senate blocked it.

    Obama has now done an end run around Congress, and Republicans are howling that the White House has acted politically. Wow. I’ll bet there’s gambling in Casablanca, too.

    Republican Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida, a Cuban-American, has been talking about introducing his own semi-DREAM Act for a while. Rubio appears to be on a shortlist as a running mate for Mitt Romney, who may see Rubio as a way to attract Hispanic voters.

    Only 3.5 percent of the Hispanics in this country have a Cuban heritage, while 63 percent have a Mexican heritage. But Rubio could have gotten significant Hispanic support for the Republican ticket by introducing an immigration bill. And if he had introduced his bill, how could the Democrats have voted against it?

    But Rubio dithered. He never introduced an immigration bill. And while Rubio was talking, Obama was taking action. Rubio is now shocked, dismayed and embarrassed.

    As Rubio told “ABC World News” on Friday, “The White House never called us about this, no one reached out to us and told us this was on its way.”

    I doubt this was received with anything but laughter at the White House.

    But stealing a march on Rubio was only half the strategy. Obama also caught Mitt Romney flat-footed. When Bob Schieffer asked Romney on CBS’s “Face the Nation” Sunday whether he, as president, would repeal what Obama had done, Romney had no answer.

    Romney would say only that he would “look at that setting as we reach it.”

    And with that, the Obama trap snapped shut. The choice for Hispanic voters is now simple: Vote for Obama and you are guaranteed a humane immigration policy for your children, relatives, friends, neighbors and fellow Hispanics for the next four years.

    Vote for Romney and you get the uncertainty of which “setting” he chooses to take.

    “This is a stroke of political genius,” Bruce Morrison told me. A former Democratic congressman from Connecticut, Morrison was chairman of the House Immigration Subcommittee, a member of the U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform and House author of the Immigration Act of 1990. He’s now an immigration attorney and lobbies on a wide variety of immigration issues.

    “Obama has taken Rubio’s idea and put it into action,” Morrison said. “He has given these people a work permit, the ability to remain in this country, but no permanent status.” Their legal status can be terminated at any time. “But it won’t be terminated by Obama,” Morrison said.

    But won’t American citizens resent new competition at a time when jobs are scarce? Couldn’t there be a voter backlash?

    “The answer to that is that workers who have legal status are not nearly as much a problem as people without legal status who take any jobs under any conditions,” Morrison said. “And these people are not being handed a job; they are getting the opportunity for a job. A lot currently are paying taxes, but now all of them will pay taxes.”

    Morrison also believes, as Obama claims, this will improve national security.

    “They now go on a list of who is in this country,” Morrison said. “It never made sense to have millions of unrecognized people, which created a pool within which the truly dangerous can hide.”

    So do a checklist on the new Obama policy:

    Good for a limited number of hardworking, honest immigrants? Check.
    Good for America because it will bring in more taxes? Check.
    Good for America because it will increase security? Check.
    Good for Obama politically? Check.
    Good because it shows that a do-nothing Congress is a Congress that this nation can do without? Hooray!
    Tish happens (I'm dyslexic)



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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    I was thinking this would be about Mubarek...
    There's nothing more expensive than a "free" boat.

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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    that's funny Canoez!
    I never learned from a man who agreed with me.

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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    That IS funny, actually.
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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    Brilliant,

    ignore the democratic process,

    just act like a third world Dictator,

    ride rough shod, without getting the will of the people

    for one's own personal political gain.


    So do a checklist on the new Obama policy:

    Good for a large number of ILLEGAL immigrants? Check.

    Bad for the equivalent number of legal unemployed Americans that would have had jobs if those illegal (now legal) immigrants were not in the country and had been deported and required to seek legal entry migration. Check.

    Good for America because it will bring in more taxes? Check.
    How ?

    Good for America because it will increase security? How ?


    Good for Obama politically? Check. Well this is all that matters, right?


    Good because it shows that a do-nothing Congress is a Congress that this nation can do without? Hooray! Yes absolutely, why not promote Mr Obama to the position of 'Dictator for life' ?

    To hell with the correct procedure for immigration. Check

    I do not think that the originators of the 'legislation' Mr Obama 'used' intended for it to be used in the manner and for the reasons that Mr Obama used it.

    As for "It is not permanent. He, or any other president, can revoke it. "
    I wonder if Mr Obama gave any thought (Nah!!) to the problems that would arise if any future President revoked the 'papal bull' that Mr Obama issued for his own personal political gain?

    Will Mr Obama ever revoke it?
    Nah, too many new (formally illegal immigrant) votes at stake for him.

    Mr Obama IMHO appears to have prostituted the legislative powers for his own personal political gain and not for the benefit of the country.

    I suspect that this is but a short step from Dictatorship, after all what is to stop him declaring himself Dictator for life?

    Why not ignore Congress in future and rule by this method?
    Last edited by Rum_Pirate; 06-20-2012 at 10:18 AM. Reason: add a line
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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    I believe most Americans don't hold anything against children who were brought here by their parents.

    Last night I saw a recent clip of Romney saying we need something like the dream act. That the act he said he would veto.
    Congress begins every day with a prayer. Enough said.

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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    Brilliant,

    ignore the democratic process,

    just act like a third world Dictator,

    ride rough shod, without getting the will of the people

    for one's own personal political gain.
    Wow.....could this possible be a unconstitutional political ploy to hang on to the throne for a while longer.........who knows....

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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    Quote Originally Posted by RonW View Post
    Wow.....could this possible be a unconstitutional political ploy to hang on to the throne for a while longer.........who knows....
    Absurd hyperbole. You obviously didn't read the C&P I posted from the constitutional expert on this move by Obama.
    Tish happens (I'm dyslexic)



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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    Apparently, it's Constitutional.

    I agree it's a brilliant political move, and one which the Rep campaign will be hard pressed to critique without provoking backlash among a minority group they'd like to have vote for their side.
    Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?

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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    Norman --
    Absurd hyperbole. You obviously didn't read the C&P I posted from the constitutional expert on this move by Obama.
    Really, I think your constitutional expert had better re-read the constituion and get a proper understanding that the vast majority of executive orders are unconstitutional and a political agenda to by-pass congress. This is not a dictatorship even if Barry is in charge temporarily.......

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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    Quote Originally Posted by RonW View Post
    Norman --

    Really, I think your constitutional expert had better re-read the constituion and get a proper understanding that the vast majority of executive orders are unconstitutional and a political agenda to by-pass congress. This is not a dictatorship even if Barry is in charge temporarily.......
    Will your preferred candidate stand up and swear that he'd never use an executive order, since "the vast majority of them are unconsititutional and a political agenda to by-pass congress"? Or are you willing to hold your nose on supposed unConstitutionality if it's your dictator temporarily in charge?
    Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?

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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    TomF -
    Will your preferred candidate stand up and swear that he'd never use an executive order, since "the vast majority of them are unconsititutional and a political agenda to by-pass congress"? Or are you willing to hold your nose on supposed unConstitutionality if it's your dictator temporarily in charge?
    I don't have or support a dictator, no matter who or of what party they claim to be a representative of....

    Unconstitutional is just that, and there are no excuses for alllowing or supporting it........

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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    Quote Originally Posted by RonW View Post
    TomF -

    I don't have or support a dictator, no matter who or of what party they claim to be a representative of....

    Unconstitutional is just that, and there are no excuses for alllowing or supporting it........
    A responsible, principled stance.

    So you'll vote against any candidate who won't publicly repudiate using executive orders, regardless of topic or political outcome?
    Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?

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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    A responsible, principled stance.

    So you'll vote against any candidate who won't publicly repudiate using executive orders, regardless of topic or political outcome?
    That is right........now you are catching on and see what real liberty and freedom actually means.....not a bi-partisan negotitated deal....

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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    Quote Originally Posted by RonW View Post
    Norman --

    Really, I think your constitutional expert had better re-read the constituion and get a proper understanding that the vast majority of executive orders are unconstitutional and a political agenda to by-pass congress. This is not a dictatorship even if Barry is in charge temporarily.......
    He's a law professor with 54 years of experience.... I suspect he knows a thing or two about this.... unless you're an even more qualified expert?
    Tish happens (I'm dyslexic)



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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    Norm -
    He's a law professor with 54 years of experience.... I suspect he knows a thing or two about this.... unless you're an even more qualified expert?
    You are right...Obviously the dipstick still doesn't understand it, or he is just another paid propagandist to sidetrack the american people and
    set the stage for dictatorship type presidents .........

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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    Quote Originally Posted by RonW View Post
    Norm -

    You are right...Obviously the dipstick still doesn't understand it, or he is just another paid propagandist to sidetrack the american people and
    set the stage for dictatorship type presidents .........

    But YOU understand it a lot more, right?

    I didn't know you were a Constitutional scholar.
    Tish happens (I'm dyslexic)



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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    Quote Originally Posted by RonW View Post
    That is right........now you are catching on and see what real liberty and freedom actually means.....not a bi-partisan negotitated deal....
    So - not voting for either major party (or their splinter groups) this time? Going to a 3rd party option, or ballot-spoiling?
    Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?

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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    Norm -
    But YOU understand it a lot more, right?

    I didn't know you were a Constitutional scholar
    Well let me tell you exactly what I am norm........Just a average individual that can read and write and think for myself with out being told what to think,
    who to vote for and what party to support..

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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    Quote Originally Posted by RonW View Post
    Well let me tell you exactly what I am norm........Just a average individual that can read and write and think for myself with out being told what to think,
    who to vote for and what party to support..
    And because I disagree with you, it means that I don't excercise the SAME right to think for myself, and draw my own conclusions?

    Is EVERYONE who disagrees with you merely a puppet, sucked in by propaganda, and incapable of thought?

    I knew you had an ego, but this is getting out of hand.....
    Tish happens (I'm dyslexic)



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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    TomF -
    So - not voting for either major party (or their splinter groups) this time? Going to a 3rd party option, or ballot-spoiling?
    That will be my decision as it should be for all americans.

    But to help you understand liberty, you do not negotiate on your rights........

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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    Brilliant,

    ignore the democratic process,

    just act like a third world Dictator,

    ride rough shod, without getting the will of the people

    for one's own personal political gain.





    Hmm, nobody seem to disagree with that.
    Thou shalt incur undying wrath if thou post anything, however true, that is negative (however so slightly) of the Democrats or of POTUS on this forum.

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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    Hmm, nobody seem to disagree with that.
    Actually, it seems to me that the will of the people might be to do something effective about immigration. If Rubio was contemplating something along similar themes, then that "will" seems to extend across both parties.

    But as one of the parties in Congress has steadfastly hogtied the way that will is supposed to be expressed under your Constitution, this is a work-around which does not create permanent status changes, but accomplishes goals held by some across both ends of the political spectrum.

    Were this to be a never-ending decree, that might be different. But all you lads have to do is win an election, and poof.
    Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?

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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    Hmm, nobody seem to disagree with that.
    Staying thin are you? By leaping to large conclusions, that is <G> Disagree? why bother. Too silly for words.

    Example - item #1 - can you explain - without the use of bootless spin and hyperbole - how an executive order 'ignores the democratic process'?? If you're against the very existence of executive orders... or the too-frequent use of them... then mount a campign. Enlist your Senator and Representative. Write legislation. Ban/limit executive orders.

    Or... if (as I suspect) you simply don't like THIS order, from THIS president... go away. You haven't a leg to stand on.
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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Staying thin are you? By leaping to large conclusions, that is <G> Disagree? why bother. Too silly for words.
    Erm, where have I leapt to large conclusions?


    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Example - item #1 - can you explain - without the use of bootless spin and hyperbole - how an executive order 'ignores the democratic process'??
    Executive orders by their very nature appear ( I am not a US constitutional expert) to be given at the sole decision of a President, without a referendum or vote by other elected representatives, bypassing Congress.


    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    If you're against the very existence of executive orders... or the too-frequent use of them... then mount a campign. Enlist your Senator and Representative. Write legislation. Ban/limit executive orders.
    I am not totally against them, I am against their use where they are used by a President for own's personal political gain.

    This is an international forum, with contributors from around the world discussing all manner of topics.
    I am not a US citizen, so cannot "Enlist your Senator and Representative. Write legislation. Ban/limit executive orders.'
    It can't stop me commenting upon them or discussing them.

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Or... if (as I suspect) you simply don't like THIS order, from THIS president... go away. You haven't a leg to stand on.
    Please be advised that you jumped to a large conclusion [yet you accuse me of 'leaping to large conclusions'] in suspecting that I "simply don't like THIS order, from THIS president".
    Sir, please be advised that in doing so you are wrong.
    I don't like the 'order' because :
    1. I do not think it is in the interests of the citizens of the USA.
    2. It has condoned and legalized the results of criminal activity by thousands.
    3. It was issued to further the President' own personal political gain and NOT that of the country.

    However, I do inquire as to why if 'someone simply don't like THIS order, from THIS president' that they should "... go away. You haven't a leg to stand on"?
    Why 'someone' should disappear, and not be allowed to voice their opinion, because they simply don't like something that the POTUS has done? Rather authoritarian and dictatorial, what ?

    It appears that the response from many on this very forum, when they do not like a post or have a valid response to it, the reply is along the likes of '... go away. You haven't a leg to stand on' or the favourite 'Bwwwuuaaah'(sp).
    Thou shalt incur undying wrath if thou post anything, however true, that is negative (however so slightly) of the Democrats or of POTUS on this forum.

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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke


    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    Re: A brilliant political stroke
    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post

    Brilliant,

    ignore the democratic process,

    just act like a third world Dictator,

    ride rough shod, without getting the will of the people

    for one's own personal political gain.




    Hmm, nobody seem to disagree with that.
    “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.” - Christopher Hitchens


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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    When Obama announced his immigration initiative a few days back, I immediately thought he had made a brilliant political move....:
    Obama's approval of gay marriage would've been a negative with Hispanic voters.
    The immigration initiative will be a positive with Hispanic voters.

    Good ol' fashioned politics.
    We don't know how lucky we are....

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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    It sounds to me like a very practical, if temporary, solution to a problem that will not go away no matter how much you ignore it.
    Even if you only take the professor's first three points it's a good idea
    Good for a limited number of hardworking, honest immigrants? Check.
    Good for America because it will bring in more taxes? Check.
    Good for America because it will increase security? Check.
    Andthe point about getting a better idea of who is where and how many is a good reason by itself.
    And of course it's political, there's an election in the offing.
    Talk of 'dictatorship' is just hyperbole.

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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    didn't bush do something similar?

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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    and the white house never asked me for my input

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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke


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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    Quote Originally Posted by RonW View Post
    Norman --

    Really, I think your constitutional expert had better re-read the constituion and get a proper understanding that the vast majority of executive orders are unconstitutional and a political agenda to by-pass congress. This is not a dictatorship even if Barry is in charge temporarily.......
    There is no Executive Order in this case. But instructions on the priorities for enforcing deportation cases.

    Bobby

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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    Quote Originally Posted by ccmanuals View Post
    [INDENT]
    “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.” - Christopher Hitchens

    Brilliant,

    ignore the democratic process,

    just act like a third world Dictator,

    ride rough shod, without getting the will of the people

    for one's own personal political gain.


    What is stated is fact not an assertion.



    PS: I must remember that quotation for future use.
    Thou shalt incur undying wrath if thou post anything, however true, that is negative (however so slightly) of the Democrats or of POTUS on this forum.

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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    For Ron (and anyone else who missed it)

    “Obama has taken Rubio’s idea and put it into action,” Morrison said. “He has given these people a work permit, the ability to remain in this country, but no permanent status.” Their legal status can be terminated at any time. “But it won’t be terminated by Obama,” Morrison said.
    I thought it a brilliant move when I first heard it - but nice to have someone spell out the nuances.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    Quote Originally Posted by RonW View Post
    Norman --

    Really, I think your constitutional expert had better re-read the constituion and get a proper understanding that the vast majority of executive orders are unconstitutional and a political agenda to by-pass congress. This is not a dictatorship even if Barry is in charge temporarily.Wow.....could this possible be a unconstitutional political ploy to hang on to the throne for a while longer.........who e......

    Tom should have warned you that I as a prolog of the Free Staters move to NH am as most of them are a student of the US Constitution. You have had the audacity to step into our domain and on our toes and start swinging and have been falsely claiming to be one of us.

    With all due and or undue or undeserved respect Ron but you are way out of bounds here with your claims and statements.

    Please consider that your opinions and fantasies and labeling without cause or justification,

    ARE NOT EQUAL TO OTHER PERSONS' FACTS.

    In fact looking at your posts as a sequence I am reminded of the psychological evaluation done by Tufts or U of CT medical school IIRC showing that the extreme right wing exemplified by the self declared Tea par-tiers when faced with facts dug into their position even harder.

    In fact the more evidennce disproving their claims the more they dug in. The study showed that when faced with facts showing them to be in error the Extreme right wing Tea partiers became cult like and viloent and dangerous at total debunking of their claims.

    I have been a student of the US Constitution making presentations on the subject from sixth grade right through two classes on it for my Contract Law professor who was also a CT state(the constitution state) superior court judge.

    The CP is from a nationally respected constitutional law expert and professor who has had a 54 year career tied directly to understanding and knowing the US Constitution...

    Obama himself is/was a respected constitutional law expert and professor.

    I live here in NH with the "FreeStaters" who might be considered a pro constitution/group of constitutionally well educated k;persons choosing to live in the same state and gradually change the government to a more constitutionally restricted one.

    Since you have made claims to expertise at a level justified in judging the above Constitutional Law Professors can I expect to see you at Porcfest this weekend with all of us Constitutional Law junkies?


    http://freestateproject.org/content/porcfest

    Remember most of us mere mortals need you as is our norm to quote chapter and verse when discussing the complexities of the US Constitution.

    Now that proper polite introductions have been made we can get to the crux of the matter.

    Which is:
    1 someone sold you a bill of goods 18 wheeler contents without telling you it was the Lawrence Welk Express.
    or
    2 you are trying establish your self as a descendant of "The Brothers Grimm" who wants to regain the family's Fairy tale fame.

    Really, I think your constitutional expert had bette
    r re-read the constituion and get a proper understanding that the vast majority of executive orders are unconstitutional and a political agenda to by-pass congress.

    The situations in which the POTUS Has used his executive powers to execute his responsibilities to the country and it's citizens are in fact quite broad. If you can give me chapter and verse of the executive orders of the last four presidents that are unconstitutional we can discuss the wording and parse the purpose at length.

    I don't have or support a dictator, no matter who or of what party they claim to be a representative of....

    Unconstitutional is just that, and there are no excuses for alllowing or supporting it........
    You are right...Obviously the dipstick still doesn't understand it, or he is just another paid propagandist to sidetrack the american people and
    set the stage for dictatorship type presidents .........
    You are aware are you not that those statements are at best Oxymoronic (self contradicting). A dictatorship has only one party if any by definition..

    Well let me tell you exactly what I am norm........Just a average individual that can read and write and think for myself with out being told what to think,
    who to vote for and what party to support.
    .

    It does present as self-evident that the Constitution is not part of your reading list or personal library.

    That is right........now you are catching on and see what real liberty and freedom actually means..... not a bi-partisan negotitated deal....
    If you really were interested in real liberty and true freedom as the non-Christian Deists that wrote the constitution envisioned or in the modern equivalent you would, you would already have found the "Free Staters" and would be here celebrating porcfest.

    here is their logo for you.....

    header-logo.jpg


    for advancement of your knowledge base.

    http://freestateproject.org/101Reasons
    Last edited by ChaseKenyon; 06-20-2012 at 10:36 PM.
    NDNs have higher IQs*



    *indian quotients.



  36. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    8,882

    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    "
    The New Colossus
    Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
    With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
    Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
    A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
    Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
    Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
    Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
    The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
    "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
    With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

    It would be sad to forget that we are a nation of immigrants. Chuck would certainly have reminded us of this fact.

    There's nothing more expensive than a "free" boat.

  37. #37
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    Apr 2005
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    Hills of Vermont, USA
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    8,989

    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    At the risk of sounding flippant, if this has radical RW folks' (like Rum Pirate & RonW) knickers twisted, that's all the proof I need that it was a brilliant political move.


  38. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
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    Hills of Vermont, USA
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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    Quote Originally Posted by ChaseKenyon View Post
    for advancement of your knowledge base.

    http://freestateproject.org/101Reasons
    Yup - put all your spending on the backs of landowners, making it more & more difficult for farms to remain farms. Not only that, this crew certainly wore out their welcome around Keene in a big hurry.

    I'm quite surprised you seem to support them Chase!

  39. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Bradford, NH
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    2,729

    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    Respect for some I have. I do think that some have used the original concept to justify going way off course. I do not at present support them financially or by speaking in public on their behalf.

    They are no better or more pure than any other arbitrary group of S or NH citizens. I will do anything in my power to protect them and their right to organize.

    Many of the problems you and others hear about are from a few dissidents. However the powers that be in Keene started out from the get go treating them like college students subject to the deans law and rules with no rights.

    I have had run ins with the court in Keen myself. A bank had misplaced payment in full on a loan in a teller's account. For six months. My first notice of a problem was a trial date in Keene court on behalf of the bank. Between the notice and the court date I copied all documents and proof of money transfer to that bank and that banks account ( a tellers temp account at the Peterboro? branch.). Told by the bank they would straighten it out at court for me so I went. The judge started by not letting the rep talk since he was not interested in her unless asked and he was on the bank board. I approached the bench to show the judge my documentation of payment. He looked at my folder and rustled the papers and threw it on the bench where it was out of my reach and slid off onto the floor. He said it did not matter if I had paid the loan in full it was on his bench and the bank was his local bank and i was not local, and that he could believe anyone he wanted to and rule for whomever he chose. He then said my previous payments to the bank were disavowed and I had to pay them the full original loan value again within 30 days. I had called on of the two full time Secret Service Agents in NH (who was a friend and past softball team member of mine) When we walked out the bank rep said I am sorry. I handed here a list of the federal bank fraud violations and the state banking and fraud violations and the postal federal law violations. I pointed out to her that these violations were in the jurisdiction of Secret Service and handed her the phone numbers of both of them, and the phoned number of the FBI fraud manager at the New England district office in Andover MA. I said if I ever heard about this again I would call them and describe her personally as having manipulated this and as the one who must have lost/acquired the missing payment.

    Yes I am personally well acquainted with justice in Keene, or rather the lack of it in Keene's self perpetuating court and general justice system all the way down to the lowest duty officer in the police and other departments.

    Most of the original FSters who moved to NH should have kept going past Keene but come on up to the wild woods of the Kearsarge, Grafton and Lebanon world. they would actually have fit right in up here.

    I feel that some few career dissidents have watered down and unfortunately stolen the public eye as you have noticed.

    My key point is that as you have, for reasons of proximity to Keene or interest in the constitutional subject, noticed them.

    If you have non hearsay info about specific problems they have put on other property owners and private citizens let me know about them and I will get back to you..
    NDNs have higher IQs*



    *indian quotients.



  40. #40
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    Apr 2005
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    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    Nope - nothing except what made the VT papers (even in Burlington - at the opposite corner of the state).

    To me, the bigger piece is how NH taxes. Putting 100% of the burden on land/home owners is tough. IMO, sales/income taxes are fairer - especially for farms.

  41. #41
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Cincinnati Ohio
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    5,004

    Default Re: A brilliant political stroke

    Chase Kenyon.......
    Obama himself is/was a respected constitutional law expert and professor.
    Think you had better do a little fact checking, but then again your mind is already set.....

    Hey did you think up all that garbage by yourself ????

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