Stick Steering Regs

[laxreff]

Just finished reading Harry Bryan's latest (for the 4th time!) in WB about stick steering. I've always loved the idea along with the rope steering run around the perimeter of the boat. I have to question it's use with higher horse power outboard motors though. I have been searching for any regulations pertaining to steering systems and horsepower but come up empty handed. I thought I had read at one time that cable and pulley on anything over 20 h.p. was illegal. Correct? I am currently building the Big Ben Garvey, Doug Hylan's design, and I'm at the point where I need to stop the hard thinking about it and get serious about systems installation. Trying to balance creature comforts with safety and ease of use are beginning to make me crazy!
Other than the motor size issue I am a huge fan of Harry Bryan's designs and tool building. I also pride myself on designing and building my own fixtures and jigs mostly for solo work. Thanks all.

[Brian Palmer]

Don't know about the regs, but I have seen launches that use a side tiller steering that is connected to the rudder head using pipes and a bell crank to make the 90 angle at the stern of the boat, instead of ropes/wires and pulleys.

Brian

[laxreff]

Thanks for your info. I plan on using an outboard around 50 hp. I'm currently planning to use a Teleflex no feedback system but I'm always open to simpler, equally user-friendly options. I guess I would rather build it myself and know exactly what went into it. I have seen commercially available stick steering units but they also involve some sort of home engineering at the motor. I guess my biggest question before I even pursue this is this: Is there a regulation on the books regarding what type of steering system can be used in relation to the horse power of the outboard? Is it simply a rule of thumb? I know contributors to WB cite sources especially when they involve legal issues, but there were no mentions made in Harry Bryan's latest article. Thanks again.

[pipefitter]

I think they have different stick systems that use the teleflex type cable rated for higher or lower hp motors.

http://www.ezyglide.com/

IMO, the teleflex type systems, including the sum of it's moving parts is dead simple. Simpler than cables and multiple pulley systems. Even with the older cable and pulley systems, you have to have a decent path for the setup. Most downside consideration to the teleflex, is typically due to lack of maintenance, and realized years after it's been installed. People just tend to take things like this for granted.

[laxreff]

That's the system I had seen. I will not be the only person operating this boat so I need something that is really user friendly. I've been sailing since I could walk so a tiller or stick steering set up is second nature. The people I am building the boat for really want a center console with the wheel and the whole works. I have to keep reminding them to keep things simple, and to make additions or changes after having used the boat for a season. I have also been on many floating living rooms and prefer better walk around space than lounges and drink holders! I will be doing the maintenance on this boat and I have read many posts from different forums regarding ill maintained teleflex type systems. I see many hours of on the water education in my future, but that's fine with me. Cable routing for the teleflex is my main concern right now. Minimizing bends and avoiding inadvertent contact with the cable is proving a challenge. I'm looking at a narrow side deck to conceal the steering cable and short runs of wiring for nav lights. Maybe I can come to a compromise to the console idea and still get a side mounted steering setup by mounting the wheel fore/aft along the side deck! In the meantime I continue to buid a cardboard mockup of the console to make sure everything fits. Thanks again.

[mcdenny]

The nuts and bolts engineering issue is pretty simple, the human factors engineering, not so much.

You could build your own steering end with some simple machining, just taking care to get the leverage right. Or you could mount a regular steering wheel sideways.

If it were me I'd want the comfort of a regular front facing steering wheel, especially with others driving a boat that can go what, 30ish mph. When its pucker time you want to be able to rely on muscle memory.

I've built a couple of side wheel steered electric launches and that works fine at displacement speeds. Even after using one of the boats quite a bit I found I occasionally turned the wheel the wrong way, though. Never in a million years would I want a side steering fast boat.

PS: The teleflex cable in my boat lasted ten years with zero maintenance (there isn't any way to grease the cable anyway) before it stiffened up. $100 for a new cable and its good to go for another decade.

[Breakaway]

The teleflex cable in my boat lasted ten years with zero maintenance (there isn't any way to grease the cable anyway)

Actually, I drill and tap the big nut at the motor end and installl a zerk fitting. Works great.( if nothing else you can more easily find the splits in the jacket by where the grease ooozes out

kevin

K

[peabody]

100 dollars for ten years use .....not bad - ten bucks a year. Heck we spend more than that at mickey dee's for
Burgers and ........you want fry's with that?
Peabody

[Paul Pless]

I think the HP regulations with regards to steering varies by state. It was 40 HP in Alabama, but could you could get around it by having youir boat registered as a commercial boat instead of recreational boat. I think McDenny makes a really good point.

[pipefitter]

I have installed the EZ-glide. The customer likes it. It's still going to be night/day better than reaching around behind you with a tiller, at least while sitting. Same people that get discombobulated with stick steering, also do so with tiller control.

The success of these units is also dependent on the hull design. As with the case of my Simmons, it takes very little wheel to turn it on it's ear. I could use a regular teleflex helm with a suicide knob on the wheel as a side mount and not have to crank it either way that much. It also depends on where the boat will be used. I don't have to navigate any slalom courses and the boat is generally used in open water with little traffic.

The cable location itself is really a consideration of aesthetics more than anything else. I know a few boats where it is just on the deck where it meets the side of the hull and we never think about it being there. More than anything, no tight bends and less is better of course. On a boat with traditional thwarts, or boxed thwarts that may have flotation in them, it's easy enough to loop it around and then under with a clean sweep towards the motor.

I don't have a closeup, but the helm is mounted on the port side and the teleflex cable crosses over to starboard and down the rear starboard leg of the console frame, under the deck and comes back out by the motor. This was about as tight as I would want to put one in but it works well for going on 6 years now. Throttle and shift cable share the same chase as the steering.



Maybe this will give an idea of where the t-flex cable will fit. Hard to tell in the photo, but the leg the cable goes down, has a compound sweep at the bottom to shoot the cable smoothly out and away to where it flows without being in a bind. I modeled this with an old cable we had laying about the shop.

[laxreff]

Pipefitter, I like your console setup. It must allow water to clear itself without any problem. I finally decided to just use the traditional rotary helm in a console. The console I will use is a box type with a seat/storage at the fwd end. The steering cable will drop straight down the stbd side of the console, turn under the floorboards towards the hull side, then rise and run aft under a small side deck. This boat has a 1" laminated keel/keelson that's 9" wide and I plan on running 2" pvc pipe through the limbers to act as cable runs for electrical and motor controls. I did make a template for an 8" radius bend to double check the routing of the steering cable. I chose to run the remaining cables and wiring down the centerline because this hull has 2 watertight floatation chambers aft that straddle a centerline locker. There is a slop well that runs full width that I plan on epoxying in a pair of pvc tubes as cable chases out of the stern locker to the motorhead. The chases will stand a minimum 4" above the deck of the slop well. You can see the boat design at http://www.dhylanboats.com. It is the Big Ben Garvey. The drawings shown don't show the interior of the Big Ben but there re other photos out there that do. Thanks for all of your input. If I'm not careful I might learn something!

[laxreff]

Image of the boat?

[bahma]

ABYC offers standards for Cable of Pulley steering systems for outboard motors to a total of 50 hp in P 18....I'm sure that they will cover stick and lever systems too.

I am about to install a cable pulley system in my old Boston Whaler, but that has only 15hp.

[Ian McColgin]

The fundamental issues are two:

Direct steering, whether tiller or cable to tiller or even simple cable to drum and wheel, has little mechanical advantage. The result is that not much movement makes for a big course change - twitchey steering. And it's easy for the engine's torque to overpower the directional control and put the boat into a high speed death spin.

For multiple and unskilled operator use, go with a telex that gives a reliable sense of direction and is no more twitchy than the average automobile.

If you must go with cables, put in multi-sheaves so it's about 3:1. The common 1:1 and 2:1 are way to twitchy at any more than a couple horse power.

Cable and vertical lever steering for an inboard displacement hull, on the other hand, is perfectly safe if direct.