Cockpit Coaming Help-Need a Design Idea

[jpendoley]

Hi All,
Looking for suggestions for an improved coaming design.
I am refitting my old Pearson Vanguard and the coamings are in need of replacement -the current design begs for improvement. Basically my current setup is a 13" wide piece of 3/4" teak that is supported by the cockpit well sides for its entire length, but only 3-4" inches of the planks width. The ends are supported forward by a large block bolted to the cabin side and aft at the end by a small 2" high plank that runs athwartships between the two coamings. The only other support is 1/3 forward of the aft end where it is screwed into a winch pedestal. There is lots of room for flexion. The cockpit sides have about a two inch curve to them and that is the shape the coaming must assume.

Using a single 13" wide piece of teak is begging for cracks and is the reason I am replacing it. Would I be better off to use a teak faced ply and cap the end grain? If I use solid wood, I'd be using iroko as I have used it before and feel its an adequate match with the rest of the trim in the boat at a fraction of the price. In that case, would it be. best to edge glue three of four pieces to attain the desired width and prevent cracking? Even though its a plastic boat-its a rhodes design, much loved and I am seeking to improve her looks as I go. Yacht quality finish is desired and the coamings are what grabs the eye when stepping aboard. Any advice sincerely appreciated.
Jim

[JimConlin]

It's a decent design that doesn't need much improvement.
If the existing coamings are OK, just clean 'em up.
The winch bases are critical in supporting the coaming laterally. You might want to think about enlarging them in the style of the Concordia yawls.

[rbgarr]

I've wondered if the box construction cockpit coaming, incorporating storage, seating and winches a la Taliesin (see third photo) would be do-able and attractive on a classic plastic cruiser like a Vanguard: http://interviewwithacruiser.blogspo...-taleisin.html

[JimConlin]

I've seen winch bases that looked like the Concordia ones and were hollow and had a hole through the coaming..

How wide are the decks outboard of the coamings? 8"?

[jpendoley]

Hi Jim,pics-
Thanks for the Concordia reference, it is very similar to my design-my side decks might be a little to narrow for the additional lateral support of a wider winch pedestal.

My coamings are ruined now-too many splits. I'm wondering if I replaced them with iroko if I should build the planks up via edge glueing or tongue and groove or splining?

Also, sounds vulgar, but are coamings ever constructed out of teak faced ply? The edges would be capped of course, but the plywood is so dimensionally stable it seems like it would be a better material if I could be made to look like regular planking.
Jim

[Candyfloss]

I wouldn't varnish ply that is to be exposed to the weather. Sooner or later the varnish will fail & you are going to have to wood it & refinish it, and the extreme thinness of the facing veneer, well, it'll be gone in two scrubs of a piece of 120 grit.

I have no idea how big your boat is, but this is what coamings on a good little Kiwi yacht look like;

[michigangeorge]

Those combings lasted a long time on what is now a very old boat. I would stick to the original design and replace as is. Anything else will likely appear to be a cobbled up amateur fix. Vanguards are much admired by knowledgeable sailors and any mods would stand out like graphics on a wooden boat.

[jpendoley]

George,
I agree-felt like the ply idea was vulgar, but at least a bit more stable. Candyfloss reminded me that all sailors neglect their varnish at some point and then I'd really regret going with ply. What about the idea of using splined iroko? My daughter wants to go to college and I feel guilty spending her tuition on two 13" x 7' pieces of teak. Have used it quite a bit on the much modified interior and it looks great.

[michigangeorge]

Jim, it's an upside down world we live in where you can buy a whole petro-chemical boat for the cost of two pieces of teak :-) I have yet to have any experience with iroko but doubt that cockpit combings would be a good place for splined anything. When sailing hard your crew relies on them for staying in the boat - often standing on them when on the low side or pulling themselves up with them when moving high. Not a place to save money! Sometimes those of us with old boats just need to bite the bullet and think of how much we are saving over buying something new and ugly :-)

[kc8pql]

Sooner or later the varnish will fail & you are going to have to wood it & refinish it, and the extreme thinness of the facing veneer, well, it'll be gone in two scrubs of a piece of 120 grit.

That reminds me of my now long departed father in law. He was an MD, and was pretty much clueless when it came to anything remotely related to manual labor.
He had a plastic sailboat that he love to sail, and loved to clean and polish. The companionway drop board was teak veneered ply. He decided that be the best way to keep it looking nice was to rub it with 4/0 steel wool and teak oil at every opportunity. He ended up rubbing all the way through the veneer and into the recorcinol glueline. The funny part was it happened slowly enough that he never realized what he'd done. He just kept polishing away 'till the day he died.

[JimConlin]

I owned an Alberg 35 (same builder, era, design, and details) for 25 years. The coamings were mahogany and were fine when I sold the boat at age 38. I'd pulled them off to refinish them once. Myself, I'd prefer varnished mahog. coamings over oiled teak.
If you can get your coamings off intact, i'd try hard to clean them up. Maybe a panel sander or even, with care, a belt sander. I'd think about varnishing them.

I added winch bases that were longer, but no wider than original. The bases were bolted through the deck, too and they didn't 'work' when the genoa was loaded, as the originals did.

If making up new coamings, I don't think there's a strong argument in favor of plain edge glueing, splines, t&g or drifts.

Nix the plywood.

[Roger Cumming]

Rather than improvise, just restore it using the same wood as the original. It will match the other wood trim. Don't use plywood. A 13" wide piece of wood is not that hard to obtain. Fasten it well and varnish it properly (7 or 8 coats) and it will last another 30 years. If it seems too daunting a project, get professional help.

[jpendoley]

Roger, thanks I have a therapist-but I'm too busy working on my old boat to schedule a visit. I am putting my old coaming back together with a rather long splice for now. I've owned the boat almost half my life and pretty much do all the work myself. When I"m stumped I come to the forum and get some really great advice In the future I will be building new coamings from scratch ala the concordia model as suggested by Jim above.

George, good to know you owned an Alberg 35 and can relate. Probably sailed better than my Vanguard-flatter sheer but otherwise very similar boats. Thanks again for the help guys.
Jim

[CundysHarbor]

I built an Ocean Pointer which has very handsome coamings; because of the width of stock needed (the boat has a lot of sheer), I elected to use mahogany ply. As has been suggested by several posters, it is way too easy to sand through the face veneer. Painting over the varnish is only a matter of time. Keeping varnish of the top of coamings has always been difficult due to lines running over the edge and other general abuse. I put a narrow half oval of brass on the top. That concept has worked very well. My current build, Joel White 23 foot sloop, will get the same brass treatment but the stock will be solid mahogany.
Dave