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Thread: Atomic 4 -- No spark

  1. #1

    Default Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Hello,

    I'm looking for user tchiffriller, or anyone who has a solution...in April of 2010, tchiffriller posted the following thread:

    I was motoring into port when i stupidly cut the channel and immediately threw it into reverse without even slowing up the throttle. It revved up high in neutral and I panicked and thru it into reverse where it immediately cut off. Since then the engine will crank but there is NO SPARK i have since then replaced the coil which i believed to be faulty and still no spark. Do you think the over rev or boat hitting the sandy chesapeake with a thud do something to the ignition system??

    ---------------------------------------

    A week ago, the same situation happened with me. Prior to the event, the engine had been working fine. I've read the responses to the original thread that others left, but I am wondering if the user ever got the problem resolved. If so, how? The coil is still good, a new distributor cap, rotor, condenser, and points have been installed, but still no spark. The rotor does turn. I was informed by the person who installed all of the parts that the points have not yet been properly gapped. He did not have a feeler gage to properly gap the points which should be gapped at 0.18-0.20 according to the specs. Could this be why there is no spark...? Assuming that the parts are installed correctly, and once the points are properly gapped, if there is still no spark, what could be the culprit. I appreciate your input and suggestions. Thank you in advance.
    Last edited by SeaGold 168; 06-19-2012 at 09:28 AM. Reason: word replacement

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    If the gap is WAY big it could be the reason, but you need to find a different installer. An A4 will run with the gap set by eye. It will run better with the gap set correctly, but it'll RUN if you get it even close to correct.

    (having said all of that I should disclose; after a few years I installed the Indigo electronic ignition and never looked back)
    Last edited by Figment; 06-19-2012 at 10:29 AM.
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Yes, it could be.. I'm still curious about why it just stopped, but lets see if it will start. .018 to .020 is a little more than the thickness of a matchbook cover so you could adjust the points gap using the matchbook cover as a starting gap... probably a little more would be good..Then you can turn the give the starter a try and looking into the distributor, see if you can see a a spark jumping across that gap...I'm pretty sure you mis read the gap setting, or mis-typed... .18 is in the 3/16th inch range... (.1875) so it's likely .018

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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    for the points, try .018-.020.. & I agree with Figment on "a different installer".

    enjoy
    bobby

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    you really can set the gap by eye. The A4 will run under almost any condition. Check all the cables, make sure everything is tight. You may have joleted something loose.

    If you just cant get anywhere, call Bill Moyer at Moyer Marine. He knows more about the A4 than anyone alive and is the nicest guy in the business. He is very willing to offer reams of advice over the phone. I redesigned the exhaust system on my old A4 and e-mailed him a sketch of what I was going to do. He called me back in minutes and spent the better part of a half hour on the phone.

    I bought all my parts from Moyer Marine as well. They make a slew of after market parts that are a real help.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Quote Originally Posted by Figment View Post
    If the gap is WAY big it could be the reason, but you need to find a different installer. An A4 will run with the gap set by eye. It will run better with the gap set correctly, but it'll RUN if you get it even close to correct.

    (having said all of that I should disclose; after a few years I installed the Indigo electronic ignition and never looked back)
    ------------------------------

    Thank you for your prompt response. As I don't know the initial gap setting on new the points, I don't know if the gap is big or not. When I informed the guy who installed the parts that I had been troubleshooting the matter, via internet, watching "how to" You tube videos, and talking to other boaters...this is when he sent me an email stating that the point gaps had not been set. He was planning to tell me this when...? Later this week I have a guy coming to check the installation of the parts, and to properly gap the pointers. Hopefully we can get it to start with little effort.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Thank you for the prompt reply. Not sure why it stopped, but it was the same situation that tchiff had in 2010. Turned down the wrong slip, and it was put into reverse without slowing down the throttle or being put into neutral first. This is when the engine immediately stopped. I wasn't at the helm. I have a guy that's going to check the installation of the parts later this week and gap the points properly.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Thank you for your prompt response. I will give Moyer Marine a call regarding this matter.

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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    FWIW, in the days of match books, the cover was a good starting point for setting points & plugs. A table (kitchen) knife will get them close, too. Then see if it starts or sparks. Also, from your stated problem (& in line with PaulT's watching for spark), check that the points cam (the center almost round piece the points ride on) is turning & that the points open & close.

    Good Luck.

    enjoy
    bobby

  10. #10

    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Thank you Bobby. At this point, since I have little confidence that the parts were properly installed, is there any chance that any of the parts could have been damaged during install...?

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    I would first check to see if your points spark when cranking the engine and they open and close. If not check to see if you have power to the coil. If not run a jumper wire to the pos. side of the coil. If you have spark at the points check to see if the timing is ok. Rotor should be pointing to no.1 spark plug wire on the cap at no. 1's compression stroke at to dead center.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Sudden death is usually the condenser. Generally speaking, don't have an A4.

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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Do you know about these guys? http://www.moyermarine.com/ If you own a Atomic-4, they should be on your speed-dial.

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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    It sounds like a shock, a physical shock, rattled the engine.
    Test for plain old continuity of ground. Individual things can all check out, but a shorted ground will stop spark. And with a tester gizmo, one can find ground, but meanwhile, the block may have shook, and rust moved a fraction and shorted it, the ground. I had an old pickup with a gremlin, the distributor was so worn, it did not ground to the block.

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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    First of all you need to find where there is power and where there isnt.
    Check all connections. Clean the points.

    I would then check the ignition timing as shock may have shifted it.

    Wiring diagram here: http://www.reocities.com/atomfour/A4WireDiag.gif

    Technically there is no such thing as a shorted ground, where does it short to?
    Check the ground connections as suggested by Wizbang.

    Is there power to the low tension wire at the coil? If yes, then a quick test of the coil can be done by removing the distributor cap & taking the high tension lead from the coil out of the distributor cap and holding it 1mm or so from a ground point on the engine, and with ignition on and the engine in a position where the points are open, short across the points with an insulated screwdriver. You should see a small spark at the screwdriver and a fat one at the end of the coil HT lead when you remove the screwdriver if the coil is ok.

    After that look for corrosion on the rotor and the tabs inside the distributor. Even check the spring loaded contact in the centre of the cap. The resistance of the leads can be checked with a cheap multimeter (or an expensive one!) Some leads have the resistance printed on them.

    Enough for now, post again if necessary. Good Luck!
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    I don't know if this will help. But, I worked with a friend on an old Ford 8N, the same era of the Atomic 4. Anyway, if he stalled the engine and the ignition switch was still on, it would sometimes burn the points / condenser out. I think it only happened occasionally due to the position of the points when the engine stopped (points open or closed). Once the points / condenser were replaced, it would run like a champ again.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Thank you for the information and the diagram. The points are new. Both the primary and secondary wiring were checked on the coil, and the ohm readings are within the proper range. I did it myself and I even took the coil to an automotive shop and had them test it. Rotor was also changed. From everything that I have been reading and the advice that I have rec'd, I think something is not installed properly. At least that's what I am hoping anyway. BTW, I did notice a red wire that is not connected to anything. One end is attached to the oil gauge sender, and the other end is not connected to anything. I don't remember if this wire has always been loose or not. The wiring appears to have been redone, so I can't go on the schematics to find out if this wire is supposed to be attached to something or not.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Thank you. Once I find a reliable, knowledgeable mechanic, I will have this checked out.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Thank you. Found out from the installer that the points were not properly gapped b4 installing, which could be the problem. I'm wondering when he was planning to tell me this....after he fiddled around for another...say 4-5 hours? The coil does have power. The timing could have been knocked out of whack by the sudden jolt. Once I find a mechanic that I feel that I can trust, I will have them take a look. The things that I feel comfortable doing, I will do, like correcting the gapping on the points. Some things I just don't feel comfortable attempting to do. I'll leave that to the professionals...once I find one.

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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaGold 168 View Post
    BTW, I did notice a red wire that is not connected to anything. One end is attached to the oil gauge sender, and the other end is not connected to anything. I don't remember if this wire has always been loose or not. The wiring appears to have been redone, so I can't go on the schematics to find out if this wire is supposed to be attached to something or not.
    aha! are you sure that's the sending unit for a pressure gauge, or is it a pressure SWITCH?
    There have been many "safety shutdown" schemes over the long history of the A4. When using electric fuel pump, it's common to have that power routed through an oil pressure switch, so that if the engine experiences catastrophic loss of oil pressure it shuts down before it chews itself to pieces.
    It's entirely possible that someone rigged the ignition circuit on this motor so that the coil is fed power via an oil pressure switch. Is that red wire about the right length to connect to the coil?
    Knowledge: Tomatoes are fruit.
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  21. #21

    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Hello again, Yes, it's the oil pressure switch, not the gauge. I think the wire is long enough to reach the coil. Are you saying that it should be connected to the coil...? If so, to the positive or negative? I know that red wires normally connect to the positive terminals, but since the wiring has been redone, not sure if it is a positive or negative connection wire. There are two wires already connected to the primary connections on the coil? Where does that lone red wire get connected to on the coil...? On top of one of the other wires that is already attached? Please advise. Thank you.

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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    "Technically there is no such thing as a shorted ground, where does it short to?"
    shorted ground, yea, I guess I made that up, but what is it called if a ground gets accidentally un connected?
    Once I left a light tester thingy hooked up to a distributor wire while tuning an aircooled VW, and it would not start cuz the tester was "shorting " the spark. After half an hour of goofing around, I gave up , took the tester off , and was ready to call a taxi, my wife hit the key one last time, vrooom. Embarrassing.
    Just that I have found the wackiest 12 vdc gremlins in a faulty ground.

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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    "Technically there is no such thing as a shorted ground, where does it short to?"
    shorted ground, yea, I guess I made that up, but what is it called if a ground gets accidentally un connected?
    It is called an "open circuit"

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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    EUREKA!! thanks canoe

  25. #25

    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Thank you. Ok...an open circuit. Can someone tell me if this lone wire gets connected to the coil. If so, the negative or the positive terminal of the coil? I don't see anywhere else that it can attach to. There are already connection wires on the coil. Does this loose wire go on top of one of the other wires on the coil...?

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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    I dont think connecting that wire to the coil will help, if it is a cut out device its normal state is open, and works by cosing and running the power to ground.
    It is more likely that it should go to your dashboard according to the diagram.

    Look at the diagram and identify every wire. To get the ignition working you only need the live mauve wire to the coil and the black wire from the coil to the distributor.

    Have you tried that tip of putting a screwdriver across the points when they are open?

    If the coil has power to it, does the negative wire from it have power? If it does and your points dont, there is possibly a short there. Maybe an insulating washer has been left out.

    Step by step and you will get there.
    Last edited by Stiletto; 06-20-2012 at 06:22 PM.
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  27. #27

    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Thank you for the info. The loose wire isn't long enough to connect to the dashboard, which is located in the lacerette in the cockpit. I can't remember if that wire was always loose or not. Like you wrote...step by step. Eventually I will get there. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaGold 168 View Post
    The points are new.
    Even brand new points should be cleaned before installation. Run some WD sandpaper or an emery board over them, very lightly. They should be shiny, not dull. DAMHIKT

    - Norm

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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    I doubt this is your problem but I wanted to share a problem I had that about drove me buggy. Old John Deere simply refused to fire but everything checked out perfect. I am no genius but I know how to trouble shoot a simple point system.

    I worked on this thing off and on for 3 weeks. There was power everywhere it should be. I could manually operate the points and I would get a spark at the plug. Turn it over and wouldn't crank and discovered there was no spark at the plugs. Try it manually and worked. It made no sense what so ever and I was ready to give it someone. I bet I gave up 10 times but the next night I would find myself standing in front of it scratching my head.

    By luck I was working on it late one night and I was looking at the points and turned over the motor and I saw a spark from the point arm to the pin the points rest on. AH-HA! After a little looking I discovered that with the points being operated by the cam it caused a short. I forget what it was that was cracked but when under pressure from the cam it allowed it short to ground. When opened and close manually they worked perfectly. New set of points and she fired instantly.

    Had I not be standing and casting a shadow on the distributor I would have never found it.
    Last edited by Kudzu; 06-21-2012 at 05:42 AM.
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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    I was going to stay away from this because of time constraints - but ...
    It is a really simple sytem and a competent person should get to the bottom of it in about fifteen minutes max...

    Before you do any testing of ignition/electrical systems in a closed environment (like a boat) be certain that the bilge/engine room is evacuated of all flammable vapors...

    Forget about that mystery wire at this time.


    A simple test is to use an inexpensive test light or volt meter to determine whether or not power is going to the coil (Note which wire goes from the side of the coil to the side of the distributor and then with the ignition on, test the other one - that one is going to your ignition switch). No power there and it is never going to run.
    If you have power there, next prove that the distributor is grounded, (Wizbang is on to something there) and then check under the distributor cap and prove that the plate that the points are mounted to is also grounded - then prove that one side of the points should be grounded and one side not be when the points are open.
    All the points do is open and close a circuit from the coil to ground (it is not a "short" circuit because there are several hundred feet of wire in the coil causing resistance... When the points open the coil is discharged and the secondary side of the coil will then spark to ground (center post - big wire).


    (Note * about the mystery wire
    There are oil pressure switches that can simultaneously open and close circuits, (Hobbs switch). They are commonly used for hour meters and may have one normally open switch and or one normally closed switch, the clue is that type of oil pressure switch will have two or three terminal posts. If this is used as an emergency shut down the engine would have to generate oil pressure before the engine would start so there is often a start circuit bypass switch.
    There are ignition circuits used on stationary engines like air compressors and generator sets that use this type of shut down, and they are generally wired in series through the generator or alternator to shut down in the event of a broken belt or loss of oil pressure but I doubt if this engine is wired that way. It may well have been wired to an hour meter though.)

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Turn the engine to the on position. There should be power to the coil. Take a volt meter or test light and go from the positive side of the coil to the ground of the battery. If there is power on the coil positive terminal, than check the ground side of the coil. With a test light/volt meter from the battery positive to the coil ground side it should read voltage, and the test light should flicker if you turn the motor over. If it doesn't work, check to see if there is a ballast resistor in series to ground and check it for open in the same manner.

    The coil functions by the points opening the ground side, causing the magnetic field in the coil primary to collapse and induce a high voltage state on the secondary side. A ballast resistor's purpose is to limit current through the coil. The ignition switch and oil switch may also be on the ground side.

    Last edited by MikeWinVA; 06-20-2012 at 10:52 PM.

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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    You say the coil is still good and the cap is new. I expect that you checked the coil primary windings for cotinuity, but that's not enough. Test the coil again by removing the hi tension lead from the middle of the cap and situating it 1/8" from a ground. Don't be hanging on to the wire, especially if you have a pacemaker. Now try the starter. If the coil is good there should be a spark.

    That jolt should be entering the top of the cap, passing through the rotor and jumping the small gap between the outer end of the rotor and the appropriate plug wire. The key word there is appropriate. Since you have a new cap the plug wires must have been removed and reconnected. My guess is that they are misplaced. Refer to Stilleto's post # 15 for the correct sequence.

    Never mind, here it is...

    Looking at the diagram I'm wondering if when the engine revved something burned out in the regulator and now the power to the primary side of the coil is shorted out. You can test for this by removing the 2 wires on the positive side of the coil and running a jumper from the positive side of the battery to that positive post on the coil, just a piece of #14 or #16 with alligator clips will do it nicely. This is part of the process of "hot wiring" an engine to start it without the keys. Now try the starter. If it runs disconnect the jumper wire immediately to stop the engine.
    Last edited by Gib Etheridge; 06-21-2012 at 11:08 AM.

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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post

    (Note * about the mystery wire
    There are oil pressure switches that can simultaneously open and close circuits, (Hobbs switch). They are commonly used for hour meters and may have one normally open switch and or one normally closed switch, the clue is that type of oil pressure switch will have two or three terminal posts. If this is used as an emergency shut down the engine would have to generate oil pressure before the engine would start so there is often a start circuit bypass switch.
    There are ignition circuits used on stationary engines like air compressors and generator sets that use this type of shut down, and they are generally wired in series through the generator or alternator to shut down in the event of a broken belt or loss of oil pressure but I doubt if this engine is wired that way. It may well have been wired to an hour meter though.)
    While I don't disagree with you, I will make two points;
    1) an A4 has enough oil pressure to close the circuit after about 5 seconds of cranking. Mine did, anyway.
    2) Precisely because they're so alluringly simple to work on, and because they've all been in service for decades, it's rare to find one that hasn't been "tweaked" by some well meaning though not completely informed individual who thought he had a novel idea of how it should be run. Rule out nothing.
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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Any progress?
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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    I highly recommend you pay a visit to the Moyer Marine Atomic 4 forum at http://www.moyermarine.com//forums/index.php. There are a couple guys there who know a whole lot about engines in general and about the Atomic 4 in particular. They helped me as I pulled mine out of my boat and did a complete tear-down and rebuild. And if you don't have the Moyer Marine Maintenance and Overhaul Manual, you really should get one - it's a fantastic resource for the Atomic 4 engine owner.
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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    suggest this:

    turn on ignition, see if there is 12v to the distributor. If there is, open the points by hand and see if there is a spark. . If not, go to the coil, unhook the primary wire that goes to the distributor, making sure that the points are closed, momentarily touch the wire to the terminal. If there is no spark, but there is current on the side where the wire comes from the key switch, the place to start is the coil. If there is a spark, but none when you open the points, either the wire from the coil to the distributor is broken, a connection is bad, or there is a short, most likely where the points slide onto their post. If the spark appears when you open the points, suggest the cap, rotor, etc. This is a simple thing to diagnose and repair. I knew a guy from Hoopers Isle who crossed the Chesapeake, with a rubber band to make his points close after the spring broke.

  37. #37
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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    " I knew a guy from Hoopers Isle who crossed the Chesapeake, with a rubber band to make his points close after the spring broke."
    i made a landfall in New England from Bermuda with a piece of purple heart dowel fashioned as a valve push rod on a small diesel.

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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    " I knew a guy from Hoopers Isle who crossed the Chesapeake, with a rubber band to make his points close after the spring broke."
    i made a landfall in New England from Bermuda with a piece of purple heart dowel fashioned as a valve push rod on a small diesel.
    Well speakin of medals, there was this guy I knew back in 1970, was wounded in combat. Wore his medals on his civilian clothing until his last day. Used to see him walkin around with his purple heart on....

  39. #39

    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Hello all, I'm just getting a chance to review the posts from 6/20 and after. Thank you for the diagrams and suggestions. Finally got a spark, but still no start. I'm now working with a different mechanic, who apparently rebuilds A4s and works on them regularly. I feel comfortable that he knows what he is doing. He did have to correct some of the things that the previous installer did. Just for the heck of it, he even tried starter fluid to see if we could get it to start...no go. I will forward the additional information to him to see if he can figure out what the problem is. He still needs to check a few things. Question...how likely is it that the sudden shock jolted the timing out of whack...? Fuel, compression, and spark...all things an engine needs to start, this I know. We have the spark, it looks like we have fuel, and he is going to check the compression on his next visit. He feels that if he is unable to get it going during this next visit, that something serious is wrong with the engine. At this point, I've been spending too much time, energy, and money trying to get the engine going. I'm seriously considering giving up on it.

  40. #40

    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    I've wondered if there's a keyway on the distributor shaft. An unrelated example is a small mower engine which has a sacrificial flywheel/magneto key which shears when the blade encounters something intractable, this kills the engine instantly because spark generation and timing are disabled, sometimes preventing severe damage or injury.

    If I wanted to play detective, I'd want to know how the distributor shaft is connected to the engine and whether it's possible to throw this off with a jolt. You are getting spark, does it correspond with one of the pistons being at TDC compression (no valves open in that cylinder)? And is it coming out the right wire for that cylinder? If either of those is not so, the timing or wire arrangement is off.

    I'd say don't focus on what the jolt could have done, but go over it from one end to the other. Primary power to coil, to condenser, to points, good ground from engine, distributor oriented correctly, cap, wires, and plugs good. When you find the thing that isn't right, the answer to what the jolt caused will likely show itself.

  41. #41
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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaGold 168 View Post
    I'm seriously considering giving up on it.
    Please don't. They're great little engines. Sturdily built and when properly tuned and maintained, very reliable and economical to operate. I'm sure it's simply a matter of properly and methodically diagnosing the issue.
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  42. #42
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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    The distributor has a flyweight advance mechanism. It seems to me that it's possible the sudden jolt might could have wrought some havoc with that. It's directly underneath the plate that the points are on. Lift the cam out, lift the plate out, and check to make sure that mechanism is intact and properly functioning. There are little springs that hold the flyweights in against centrifugal force. If the mechanism is not working right, it will throw your timing off.
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  43. #43
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Quote Originally Posted by seedy View Post
    I'd want to know how the distributor shaft is connected to the engine
    The distributor runs off of a spiral gear in the accessory drive. The distributor shaft is not really "connected" to the engine. You can remove the entire distributor in about 60 seconds by unbolting a single bolt and lifting it vertically up out of the hole in the accessory drive.
    - Bill T.

    "How many politically-correct people does it take to screw in a light-bulb?"

    "Look, I don't know, but that's not funny."

  44. #44

    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Thank you I.L.R., I will forward this information to the mechanic.

  45. #45
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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    By the way, probably the most common after-market modification to the Atomic 4 is to convert to electronic ignition, which eliminates the points and condensor and makes timing far simpler. Both Moyer Marine and Indigo Electronics sell EI kits. It's very simply - you open the distributor cap, pull out the rotor and plate holding the points and condensor, disconnect the wire from the coil, drop in the plate containing the EI module, drop in the magnet (goes on the distro shaft), connect the wire to the coil, replace the rotor and put the cap back on.
    - Bill T.

    "How many politically-correct people does it take to screw in a light-bulb?"

    "Look, I don't know, but that's not funny."

  46. #46

    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Hello all,

    Thank you for the many responses and suggestions. It's been just about a month since the engine has been down. I've had two guys look at it, and I've been tinkering around with it. No luck. Simply can't figure out what the issue is. Needless to say,this has been a frustrating and annoying task. The last guy that I had working on it, did get a spark, but it still did not start. It did crank prior to his second visit, now I can't even get it to crank. When I addressed the matter with the guy, his response was, ...well I did get it to spark, and that's what you told me you wanted. What good is a spark if it still does not fire up? As you all know, fuel, compression, and spark...what is needed for an engine to run. Well, neither guy checked the compression, and it appears that the fuel is properly flowing, but I can't say that for certain either, as that was not checked. Is anyone else sensing that there is something wrong with this picture...or is it just me?

  47. #47
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    1,640

    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Quote Originally Posted by ILikeRust View Post
    The distributor has a flyweight advance mechanism. It seems to me that it's possible the sudden jolt might could have wrought some havoc with that. It's directly underneath the plate that the points are on. Lift the cam out, lift the plate out, and check to make sure that mechanism is intact and properly functioning. There are little springs that hold the flyweights in against centrifugal force. If the mechanism is not working right, it will throw your timing off.
    A simpler way of checking that the centrifugal advance is working is to take the cap off, and use a little bit of force to turn the rotor. One way it will turn maybe 5º, and then return. The other way it won't move. When you rotate the rotor like that, you're making the centrifugal advance work. When it goes back by itself, that shows that the return springs (flyball springs) are intact, and that the whole system is working. You can get much more elaborate than this, but the basic thing is to make sure that the springs are returning the rotor, which is where it will start.
    My suggestion would be that it's pretty unlikely that the jolt of running aground did anything to the engine. Much more likely it was over-speeding it.

  48. #48
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    Dec 2008
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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaGold 168 View Post
    Hello all,

    Thank you for the many responses and suggestions. It's been just about a month since the engine has been down. I've had two guys look at it, and I've been tinkering around with it. No luck. Simply can't figure out what the issue is. Needless to say,this has been a frustrating and annoying task. The last guy that I had working on it, did get a spark, but it still did not start. It did crank prior to his second visit, now I can't even get it to crank. When I addressed the matter with the guy, his response was, ...well I did get it to spark, and that's what you told me you wanted. What good is a spark if it still does not fire up? As you all know, fuel, compression, and spark...what is needed for an engine to run. Well, neither guy checked the compression, and it appears that the fuel is properly flowing, but I can't say that for certain either, as that was not checked. Is anyone else sensing that there is something wrong with this picture...or is it just me?
    Timing? Yes, you need fuel, compression and spark - but you need them at just the right time. When I rebuilt my Atomic 4, I knew I had put it all back together correctly, but it just would not run. It sputtered, it coughed, it spat fumes out the carb, backfired, made loud pops - but no running. I examined everything for about an hour, then decided to call it a day. After sleeping on it and having a couple cups of coffee the next day, I decided to triple-check the timing one more time. I discovered that I had the ignition timing out 180 degrees - so it was firing on the exhaust stroke, not the compression stroke. I re-set the distributor and it immediately fired right up and purred like a kitten.

    If you can't get it to crank, I'm thinking your battery is dead - or you have a bad ground connection somewhere. What kind of condition is your wiring in? Take a good look at all the wiring and make sure the connections are sound.
    - Bill T.

    "How many politically-correct people does it take to screw in a light-bulb?"

    "Look, I don't know, but that's not funny."

  49. #49
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    359

    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Did you ever look to see if the Timing Chain/gear had jumped a tooth or more with the sudden stop of the Crank.

    Inertia would take the camshaft on over as far as it could go.
    The Oil pump is driven off the bottom of the distributor.
    When the engine turns over, the Distributor moving should cause Oil pressure.

    At 'top dead center' of the crank, the Bug in the distributor should be pointing to one of the Spark plug wire leads in the cap. Hopefully it's the #1 plug wire.

  50. #50
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    Default Re: Atomic 4 -- No spark

    Quote Originally Posted by thud View Post
    Did you ever look to see if the Timing Chain/gear had jumped a tooth or more with the sudden stop of the Crank.
    The Atomic 4 does not have a timing chain - the camshaft is geared directly to the crankshaft with a beveled gear. You'd have to break a tooth or two off the gear itself to get the valve timing off, and I would have to really doubt that would have happened. Not saying it's not possible; just that I would really be surprised if that were the case. It's a pretty beefy little engine.

    Quote Originally Posted by thud View Post
    The Oil pump is driven off the bottom of the distributor.
    No it isn't. It's driven off the crankshaft. The distributor is driven off the accessory drive and the distributor does not drive anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by thud View Post
    When the engine turns over, the Distributor moving should cause Oil pressure.
    To be clear, whether or not you have oil pressure is completely unrelated to the distributor.

    Quote Originally Posted by thud View Post
    At 'top dead center' of the crank, the Bug in the distributor should be pointing to one of the Spark plug wire leads in the cap. Hopefully it's the #1 plug wire.
    If your'e at top dead center on cylinder number one, yes.
    - Bill T.

    "How many politically-correct people does it take to screw in a light-bulb?"

    "Look, I don't know, but that's not funny."

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