Air nailer for T&G pine?

[bob winter]

I plan to get started on the ceiling of the new sunroom at the cottage shortly. I am considering using my small air nailer since I will be working above my head. I normally just use a hammer and nail set but that is going to waste a lot of time and I don't look forward to all that overhead nailing with my shoulder the way it is.

Has anybody here ever used an air nailer for this sort of thing? I would assume that it would be a good idea to throttle back the pressure to around 80psi but I am concerned about getting the nails in the right spot. Would it be difficult to position the nailer correctly or is there an attachment for this purpose? My small nailer is a Porter Cable that will handle up to a 2" brad. I could buy a new nailer for this application, if such a beast exists.

The material is 6" T&G 3/4" thick.

Any comments will be welcome.

[PeterSibley]

Hi Bob, I use a stapler / brad gun but use the staples on T&G, the imprint is the same and the legs of the staple give a stronger grip in my experience. I've stopped swinging a hammer overhead if I can possibly avoid it!

[bob winter]

Thanks, Peter.

I don't have a stapler and I don't think I would use one enough to justify the outlay. What PSI do you use?

[PeterSibley]

About 80 psi Bob, my brad nailer sounds exactly like yours but it takes staples as well as brads. They just fit over the bar in the magazine instead of to one side like the brads .

[Iceboy]

I did my entire porch ceiling with that same nailer. I used the standard 90 psi with no problems. You can always throttle back if they blow through but it's hard/impossible to drive one further in if you start out too low.

[Mrleft8]

I use 1 1/2" 18Ga brads for that job. You just snug the nose of the nailer in the tongue/cheek interface, and pull the trigger. After a few tries it starts to either feel right, or not.... And yeah, you'll probably put one or two through the tongue instead of through the meat, but that's OK..... It's part of the learning curve. I also find that removing the little rubber bumper/ anti-mar thing from the nose of the nailer helps get it snug, but don't lose it.... I did that with my favorite nailer, and now I have to remember not to use it on certain jobs.....

[Andy Mcconkey]

When we install T & G on ceilings we use a finish nailer, but we also put in a trim head screw here and there. Same deal, blind screwed where the tongue meets the meat.

[PeterSibley]

I shoot then fill the hole, I don't shoot near the tongue as I like the material to be reusable and too close to the tongue will cause it to crack off if dismantled. I realise that's not a consideration for most people.

[potomac]

Like Iceboy said, I work at 90 PSI with a finish nailer. The heads on those finish nails are quite fine and very tough to sink if they don't go on their own. They are also a real pain to pull if they hit an unseen solid preventing sinking. I've had to clip the heads, bend over the remaining shaft, and fill the resultant hole. Just in desperate times.

Others may disagree, but I think there's something to be said for a good firm grip on the gun as well as a press against the material so you don't limp wrist it and lose power or accuracy.

I use Porter Cable nailers and have never had a problem. The finish nailer gets the most use by far.

[kelso]

I've nailed about a thousand miles of T&G centermatch yellow pine here in Texas. My current gun, owned for more than seven years, is a Senco that uses 2" max. It's angled for such purposes -shooting through the corner where the tongue projects from 'the meat' as Andy says. It's a great gun, oiless, lightweight and comfortable. Good luck with your project!

[bob winter]

Sounds as if I am good to go with the present nailer. I will start at 80PSI and see if that is enough on a test piece. If needed, I will adjust PSI until I am happy.

It will be a relief not to use the hammer and nailset. I did the ceiling in the main cottage that way and it was a pain and that was before the shoulder went bad. Main cottage has 8' ceiling but the sunroom is around 13' at the one end and 16' long. To avoid joints, I am using 16' material so I suspect it will be a two man job, The stock looks nice and I hope the stuff goes together easily. The walls are 6" pickwick from hell. It was a battle to get the joints tight and I wouldn't want to go through that with the ceiling.

After the sunroom project is completed, the next project is addressing the basement, or lack thereof. verybody and their dog seems to have a theory on that issue. I could live without a basement, if it were up to me, but the son and nephew seem to expect somewhere to sleep. They also seem to expect me to foot the bill. I hope the cottage eventually ends up the grandson but he is only 3 at the moment. For all I know, he may not like cottages but I hope to live long enough to have a notion of the lay of the land before I have to take the necessary steps.

[Mrleft8]

If he's only 3, you have plenty of time..... 10 years at least.....

[bob winter]

Lefty, you are right, provided I last that long. I have lost a ple of weight the last few years. I think my teeth were likely the problem since if you can't chew, you can't eat all that much. Went down at least 10 lbs after they yanked all the upper teeth and put in the implants. I have been able to put some of it back on so maybe that was the issue. I decided to see the quack and went for a series of tests that may or may not reveal if anything is wrong. I hope nothing is found but it is better to know than not.

If the cottage does not go the Liam (the grandson) then I have a problem. If I leave to the son, the nephew will likely never get to go there again and if I leave it to both of them they are sure to be always bickering. Their personalities conflict. If I sell it out of the family, they will both be pissed off. A problem I could live without but one that will have to be addressed.

Loosing one's sense of immortality is a bit of a drag. Structuring a will is a hell of a job so it works for everybody. Then there is the question of my tools, which I have way too many of. Strangely, the son shows no interest whatsoever in most of the things that interest me and tools is one of them. It is not that he can't use them. He can cut to a line as well as I can. Likely better since he has the advantage of good eyesight, but he has to be driven to do it. He can do pretty much everything else I can but won't unless he has to. Every time he has to do something around the house he expects me to trot over there and help out. He wanted me to come over the other day an install a ceiling fan for him. I finally told him there was no reason that he couldn't do it himself. He has watched me do it at least 20 times and it is not exactly rocket science. He surprised me a bit when he actually did do it.

[Mrleft8]

Sons like to make old decrepit fathers feel useful.....

[kc8pql]

I shoot then fill the hole, I don't shoot near the tongue...

I always fasten through the tongue, same as laying hardwood flooring. The next piece covers the nail, so you don't have to waste all that time filling nail holes and trying to get filler to match if it's to be finished natural rather than paint. Generally, if taken down properly (use a nail set to drive the nails though), the material could still be re-used if it ever came to pulling it off again in a future remodel, though I wouldn't spend much time worrying about that possibility.

[bob winter]

Don't really see a whole lot of point driving nails into T&G if you are not nailing into the tongue. If you are driving into the surface where it will show, why bother with T&G at all? You could just go with something with a lap joint.

[Larks]

I've had very good success with both a brad nailer and a staple gun shooting through the tongue. Once you find the right position to seat the gun the job goes very quickly and easily. The staple gun was the easiest and from memory was about $45.00 at the local "Super Cheap Autos" store (whatever your equivalent cheap Chinese tool store is over there), does the job and, kept oiled, should last pretty well for the cost.

I'd add that even though I never found much use for one before, having bought it for a specific job, I now find all sorts of uses for the air staple gun.

[PeterSibley]

I always fasten through the tongue, same as laying hardwood flooring. The next piece covers the nail, so you don't have to waste all that time filling nail holes and trying to get filler to match if it's to be finished natural rather than paint. Generally, if taken down properly (use a nail set to drive the nails though), the material could still be re-used if it ever came to pulling it off again in a future remodel, though I wouldn't spend much time worrying about that possibility.

Everything I build I build with ease of reuse in mind. Through the tongue almost guarantees the board will be wasted and not reused and while it's not something most people care about I do.

[Larks]

Everything I build I build with ease of reuse in mind. Through the tongue almost guarantees the board will be wasted and not reused and while it's not something most people care about I do.

Not wanting to disagree for the sake of disagreeing Peter, but that probably depends on how careful you are about removing it. I'd argue that it can be more reusable nailing through the tongue if you remove them board by board and simply notch either side of the nail/staple with a sharp chisel or a saw either side of the joist, that way you have no previous nail holes to deal with and it will still rejoin with a segmented (for want of a better phrase) tongue length.

[Ron Williamson]

Wee 18 ga. nails pull right through and stay in the joist/rafter with no damage to the T&G,aside from the pinholes.
R

[kc8pql]

simply notch either side of the nail/staple with a sharp chisel or a saw either side of the joist, that way you have no previous nail holes to deal with and it will still rejoin with a segmented (for want of a better phrase) tongue length.

...or, as I said in my post above, simply drive the nail through the tongue and out the back side of the board as you take it down, using a thin nailset. Tongue damage is minimal and with a little cleanup won't prevent re-use.
This is standard re-modeling carpenter technique for removing any type of finish trim to minimize damage of material that must be re-used.

[Mrleft8]

23Ga. headless pins would almost surely allow re-use of the ceiling boards...... After they fell down because they weren't fastened properly...... BUT...... They would be reusable!!!!

[Larks]

...or, as I said in my post above, simply drive the nail through the tongue and out the back side of the board as you take it down, using a thin nailset. Tongue damage is minimal and with a little cleanup won't prevent re-use.
This is standard re-modeling carpenter technique for removing any type of finish trim to minimize damage of material that must be re-used.

Unless you use the staples

[PeterSibley]

Not wanting to disagree for the sake of disagreeing Peter, but that probably depends on how careful you are about removing it. I'd argue that it can be more reusable nailing through the tongue if you remove them board by board and simply notch either side of the nail/staple with a sharp chisel or a saw either side of the joist, that way you have no previous nail holes to deal with and it will still rejoin with a segmented (for want of a better phrase) tongue length.

Greg, I buy and use a lot of demo material and as such see a lot of ways that things are put together, almost everything fastened through the tongue is waste.The boys won't / don't take the time to do the careful job you suggest.... the result is a broken or split tongue and a wasted board. It's hard enough to successfully recycle a decent percentage of material without making it slower and harder.

Doing it the other way is a bit slower but I work cheap! I also use a stapler and it holds a lot better than a finish nail or a brad.

[bob winter]

Well, the air nailer plan didn't work out so well. Got about two boards up and the quick-connect packed it in. Ended up using the hammer and nailset for the remaining 23 boards. It may be more work but I think I will do the rest of the ceiling the same way. There is something about a 2" finishing nail that just seems more satisfying to me than a 1.5" 18 guage brad. So much for modern technology. A hammer and nailset tends not to break down although it can be a bit hard on the operator after a while.

Just to put the icing on the cake, I discovered after we had managed to get one of the new ceiling fans installed around 12' up that the damned remote was defective so we had to yank the thing out and go the old fashioned way using the pull chains. I thought the remote would be a nice touch, given how high the chains are off the floor, but I find I can just reach the speed control chain if I stand tip toe. Another loss for modern technology. What isn't there can't break down.

[Mrleft8]

I have found that those quick connect ends are pretty easy to replace/reattach... I've had to reattach the work end of one of mine about 4 times, losing a few inches each time... A sharp knife, two wrenches, and about 10 minutes.....

[bob winter]

It was the quick connect itself. Think the o-ring must be at fault. Replacing it was not an option since the local stores were closed on both Sunday and Monday and I wasn't about to drive 2 1/2 hours back to Ottawa to pick one up. One thing about having a cottage in the middle of nowhere is the need to maintain an extensive inventory of just about everything.

[Mrleft8]

Ah.... Yes....

[Ron Williamson]

I'm lazy.
I'd have taken the quick connect out and connected the hose to the tool directly.
Or if it was better,maybe connect the hose directly to the compressor....
but then,since I was at the cottage,I would prolly have to drink about it for a little while,then have a nap,maybe.
R

[Paul Girouard]

On the chain being to short why not pick up a link coupler and add a few inches of chain?

Did you leave any mule tracks using the hammer?

Glad to hear you got-er- done either way, nice work!!

[chas]

"There is something about a 2" finishing nail that just seems more satisfying to me than a 1.5" 18 guage brad."

You haven't lived till you have operated a 16 guage finish-nailer. Best of both worlds. / Jim

[bob winter]

I'm lazy.
I'd have taken the quick connect out and connected the hose to the tool directly.
Or if it was better,maybe connect the hose directly to the compressor....
but then,since I was at the cottage,I would prolly have to drink about it for a little while,then have a nap,maybe.
R

Thought of that but wasn't able to get the connector off the nailer. Would have been nice if I could have.

[bob winter]

On the chain being to short why not pick up a link coupler and add a few inches of chain?

Did you leave any mule tracks using the hammer?

Glad to hear you got-er- done either way, nice work!!

I plan to but didn't have any extra chain on hand.

I must confess I did leave one very minor mule track. Normally I nail with my thumb between the hammer and the wood as a means of prevention but I goofed up on that one. I was in a very difficult position and getting the thumb in the right spot would have been a PIA.

Off to the store shortly to lay in a supply of quick connects for inventory.

[bob winter]

"There is something about a 2" finishing nail that just seems more satisfying to me than a 1.5" 18 guage brad."

You haven't lived till you have operated a 16 guage finish-nailer. Best of both worlds. / Jim

16 guage would no doubt be a whole lot more substantial. I will look into it. Any particular brand that you favour?

[chas]

Wish I could help you , Bob. I bought mine used from a rental shop over twenty-five years ago. Not sure there's a name on it anymore, nor do I remember.

Mine is very heavy compared to the new products. Incidentally, i just installed 3500 lineal of that pine as ceiling and my weapon of choice was the pair of narrow-crown Hitachi staplers that I had purchased for an earlier cedar shingling job. Beats everything else IMHO. / Jim

[oldsub86]

Wish I could help you , Bob. I bought mine used from a rental shop over twenty-five years ago. Not sure there's a name on it anymore, nor do I remember.

Mine is very heavy compared to the new products. Incidentally, i just installed 3500 lineal of that pine as ceiling and my weapon of choice was the pair of narrow-crown Hitachi staplers that I had purchased for an earlier cedar shingling job. Beats everything else IMHO. / Jim

What length of staple do you use?

Randy

[Mrleft8]

I think you ought to try putting a handful of nails in your mouth, and then drinking a bottle of tequila..... In theory you should be able to spit those babies out like a machine gunner.....

[chas]

"What length of staple do you use?"

1.5", the longest that will fit in those guns. / Jim