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Thread: Building a coble model

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Quote Originally Posted by akitchen View Post
    Wonderful work! The apple wood is a nice touch.
    Nice work Andrew
    I put the apple to one side for this project because I knew that it would have the fine grain for a model of this scale, and because of all of those lovely bends for the frames and knees.

    Have you considered ballast and building in buoyancy? According to the Model Shipwright piece they used sand bags for ballast when sailing. I also do not think that your rudder will work unless you add a centre board. Not difficult with modern glues, but I don't think she will sail without.
    Last edited by Peerie Maa; 06-20-2012 at 11:47 AM.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  2. #37
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Yes, that miniature compass timber makes the difference with the extreme curvature of the frames. I had to
    resort to laminating my frames, rather fussy work at that scale.

    The rudder issue is a serious concern. My rudder's centre of resistance is further aft by about 18 inches. At best,
    it may introduce a strong lee helm, although I believe (if my memory serves me correctly) cobles were prone to a
    rather fierce weather helm in heavy conditions. In the worst case I may have to install a CB (and some cobles were
    built with CBs, probably those used for racing mainly), but I'm leaving that to experimentation. I will be able to tweek
    the sail balance by adjusting the angle of the mast, which will help a little. Coble fishermen had to deal with extreme
    conditions that I will never meet, so I will have that advantage.

    Ballast will be bags of lead shot or lead block, in all likelihood. I've used that approach in my current boat and it works
    well. Buoyancy will be construction foam strapped under the thwarts supplemented by inflatable buoyancy bags, again
    like my current boat. The green canvas bags hold the foam, ballast is under the bottom boards:


    Andrew

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Nice work Andrew
    I put the apple to one side for this project because I knew that it would have the fine grain for a model of this scale, and because of all of those lovely bends for the frames and knees.

    Have you considered ballast and building in buoyancy? According to the Model Shipwright piece they used sand bags for ballast when sailing. I also do not think that your rudder will work unless you add a centre board. Not difficult with modern glues, but I don't think she will sail without.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Gorgeous!

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    They always leave and return to the beach with the bow facing the waves, so they have a deep forefoot to hold them head to sea when backing in. This requires the deep rudder reaching forward under the boat to provide lateral area in the right place to balance the rig.
    Wow! that must have some timing to do that and not destroy the rudder.

    Thanks all for the detailed images. It kind of inspires me to finish some of my three uncompletd models.

    JD
    Senior Ole Salt # 650

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Quote Originally Posted by J. Dillon View Post
    Wow! that must have some timing to do that and not destroy the rudder.
    JD
    They dropped the sail and mast, and lifted off the rudder some distance from shore before rowing
    stern first onto the beach. The coble was definitely a deep sea sailer.

  6. #41

    Default Re: Building a coble

    I am very impressed by the models shown and described above.I have recently taken up model boat building as a retirement hobby but am not in the same league as this.
    I grew up with cobbles and, in my younger years, owned one and skippered several others. I mainly worked from Bridlington harbour, but spent a memorable year working out of the North landing at Flamborough.
    Over the years I travelled up and down the "cobble coast" ( broadly defined as from the Humber to Berwick on Tweed) and saw some beautiful cobbles (pronounced coble in the Northern part of the area.
    Some of the builders I remember were: Baker Siddall and his son Percy who built their cobbles in Bow Street, Bridlington. Hargreaves (Arg) Hopwood of Flamborough. (Never met him but saw many of his buildings), Scarborough Marine, The Clarksons of Whitby ( one member of this family built cobbles just behind Spittal bridge) and Harrisons of Amble. I also saw the early stages of a build by a heritage group in the heritage centre in Seahouses and another similar project at Sunderland. All these people built "by eye" as no plans were used. Percy Siddall said that the eventual shape of any cobble was defined by the shaping of the "ram" at the very start of the build.
    I have many memories and "snippets" of information which keep coming in to my mind (age problems) so if you need any information, I would be happy to try to help. (Please note that I am by no means the "definitive source" but I might be able to remember something to help).

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharoah Phil View Post
    I am very impressed by the models shown and described above.I have recently taken up model boat building as a retirement hobby but am not in the same league as this.
    I grew up with cobbles and, in my younger years, owned one and skippered several others. I mainly worked from Bridlington harbour, but spent a memorable year working out of the North landing at Flamborough.
    Over the years I travelled up and down the "cobble coast" ( broadly defined as from the Humber to Berwick on Tweed) and saw some beautiful cobbles (pronounced coble in the Northern part of the area.
    Some of the builders I remember were: Baker Siddall and his son Percy who built their cobbles in Bow Street, Bridlington. Hargreaves (Arg) Hopwood of Flamborough. (Never met him but saw many of his buildings), Scarborough Marine, The Clarksons of Whitby ( one member of this family built cobbles just behind Spittal bridge) and Harrisons of Amble. I also saw the early stages of a build by a heritage group in the heritage centre in Seahouses and another similar project at Sunderland. All these people built "by eye" as no plans were used. Percy Siddall said that the eventual shape of any cobble was defined by the shaping of the "ram" at the very start of the build.
    I have many memories and "snippets" of information which keep coming in to my mind (age problems) so if you need any information, I would be happy to try to help. (Please note that I am by no means the "definitive source" but I might be able to remember something to help).
    Hi, i wonder if you could give me any further details of the clarksons? Ive been trying to get information such as the relationship between Gordon and Billy, their years of building, and when they died?

    Dan

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    The best, maybe definitive source for information on Coble's I've found is:-

    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 09-19-2012 at 05:18 AM.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post
    The best, maybe definitive source for information on Coble's I've found is:-

    Only from Amazon US at $335. Pity as I'd have liked to add it to my collection.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  10. #45

    Default Re: Building a coble

    Hi Dan, I'm affraid that I can't give you much information about the Clarksons as I knew more "of" them than about them if you know what I mean. For some reason I sort of thought or assumed that Billy and Gordon were brothers, but I may well be wrong. I know that one of them set up a building yard on the Bessingby Industrial Estate in Bridlington (possibly in Bells Yard) but I was away deep sea during that time and so lost touch with the fishing side for a number of years.
    I know that Billy built a cobble called "Njord" for Leeds University in Whitby in 1966, and that Gordon built "Prosperity" for Emmersons of Flamborough in 1978. I also read somewhere that Gordon had died in the latter part of 2009 but that is about all that comes to mind which might be of help to you. Good luck with the research.
    Regards Phil

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    WOW great stuff.
    Followed by a dummy question,: How do you get those neatly sawn sections out of a crooked branch
    Don't worry I'm happy

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    Justice is sometimes harder to achieve."

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  12. #47
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Quote Originally Posted by beernd View Post
    WOW great stuff.
    Followed by a dummy question,: How do you get those neatly sawn sections out of a crooked branch
    It depends on the branch. With some I made the first cut with a hand saw and then flattened the cut face on the belt sander clamped to the bench as a bench sander. Then I ran them through the band saw with a fence set to the correct thickness to allow for the belt sander to remove the saw marks. With some branches I was able to take the first cut against the fence on the band saw to give me a surface to work from.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  13. #48
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Thanks,

    I will do some model boat building coming winter and I might just be able to lay my hands on some miniature grown oak knees (quersus robur IIRC).
    Don't worry I'm happy

    "The law is what we have to live with.
    Justice is sometimes harder to achieve."

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  14. #49
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    It looks as though you've cobbled that model together....

    Nice work.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Quote Originally Posted by beernd View Post
    Thanks,

    I will do some model boat building coming winter and I might just be able to lay my hands on some miniature grown oak knees (quersus robur IIRC).
    Oak has quite a bold and in your face grain and figure. That is why I went for a fruit wood. Any fine grained small tree like holly or cherry or hedge row trees like hawthorn would be good. Any mature orchards near you that may want to thin out some thick old branches?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  16. #51
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianM View Post
    It looks as though you've cobbled that model together....

    Nice work.
    Groan.

    Don't give up the day job.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  17. #52
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Hi, well it just so happens my friend owns Njord!

    Njord is still solid as a rock. She went through a reasonably big overhaul 2 years ago and then again a week out of the water a few months ago.






    Dan

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    It looks as though you've cobbled that model together....

    Id give you a smack (of a boat) if you repeat that one!!!!

    James


    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Groan.

    Don't give up the day job.

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  20. #55
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Oak has quite a bold and in your face grain and figure. That is why I went for a fruit wood. Any fine grained small tree like holly or cherry or hedge row trees like hawthorn would be good. Any mature orchards near you that may want to thin out some thick old branches?
    I 'm found of this boat. Lines are excellent. Why so deep a rudder ( for a boat traditionnaly launch from flat beach )?

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Quote Originally Posted by patrice Hubert View Post
    I 'm found of this boat. Lines are excellent. Why so deep a rudder ( for a boat traditionnaly launch from flat beach )?
    From post #32
    The long rudder doubles as a dagger board. Because the boats work off of a flat sand beach they have a fine bow and flat stern. They always leave and return to the beach with the bow facing the waves, so they have a deep forefoot to hold them head to sea when backing in. This requires the deep rudder reaching forward under the boat to provide lateral area in the right place to balance the rig.
    They were rowed out through the surf and the rudder was shipped when in deep enough water.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  22. #57
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    This boat is certainly among the prettiest workink boats. So gorgeous ! ... And a mighty impresson of seaworthyness. I would have like to make a cobble some years ago but never find plan for.
    Selway fisher has a 15' ( a bit too short) and a 26, ( too big and furthermore strip planking hull...) a 20, 21 will suit me, of course with a HB well. the boat you've made a model seems almost a flat bottom and seems not to have neither dagger or keel d'you believe she can sail ?

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    The beautiful wooden Cobles of my youth ( this is Brian speaking) are all being sold off cheaply so the skippers can buy the boat the day fishermen want talking out in, semi or full planing power boats. One day these lovely boats will be valued again and their values will reflect that.

    Just look at this wonderful example on eBay

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yorkshire-...#ht_500wt_1287

    Just wish I could post a picture.

    Brian

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Quote Originally Posted by patrice Hubert View Post
    This boat is certainly among the prettiest workink boats. So gorgeous ! ... And a mighty impresson of seaworthyness. I would have like to make a cobble some years ago but never find plan for.
    Selway fisher has a 15' ( a bit too short) and a 26, ( too big and furthermore strip planking hull...) a 20, 21 will suit me, of course with a HB well. the boat you've made a model seems almost a flat bottom and seems not to have neither dagger or keel d'you believe she can sail ?
    They were never built to plans, so the only plans available are from museum boats that have been measured.
    They did sail, but were difficult when running, the rudder and deep forefoot providing the lateral area provided by the keel in other boats. They did have a flat bottom aft so that they could land on a flat sandy beach.
    Here is a part of one of the published plans of a coble from measurements.

    There are plans on here: http://www.ebedejong.nl/coble.htm
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  25. #60
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    http://www.ebedejong.nl/coble.htm very interesing thread, thanks a lot.
    I suppose these boats are uneasy to make inasmuch the gardbord seems almost horizontal at midship and rise up ( spring) almost vertical to the bow ( the so called "fore foot"). I wonder if this plank need to be steam... I don't believe that could be done with plywood...but perhaps a very thin thickness of pw, let say 6mm... For a so looking sturdy and mighty strong seaworthness boat usong ply will be a blaspheme.

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    John Welsford has a design for a 17' 2'' simplifyed verson of a yorkshire cobble pw hull.

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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Quote Originally Posted by patrice Hubert View Post
    John Welsford has a design for a 17' 2'' simplifyed verson of a yorkshire cobble pw hull.

    And with the greatest respect to JW, it does not appear to match the hull form of a coble aswell as the designs from Paul Fisher. Neither of which really have the bulbous fore foot.A bit of tumble-home in the top strake of a boat seems to be the only thing in common with the original. Inspired by the coble,perhaps. I think the fisher range are attractively shaped, for their size. How small were the original boats built?

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post
    The beautiful wooden Cobles of my youth ( this is Brian speaking) are all being sold off cheaply so the skippers can buy the boat the day fishermen want talking out in, semi or full planing power boats. One day these lovely boats will be valued again and their values will reflect that.

    Just look at this wonderful example on eBay

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yorkshire-...#ht_500wt_1287

    Just wish I could post a picture.

    Brian

    That looks like a great, well maintained Coble and (if it is sound) thats a bargain.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    And with the greatest respect to JW, it does not appear to match the hull form of a coble aswell as the designs from Paul Fisher. Neither of which really have the bulbous fore foot.A bit of tumble-home in the top strake of a boat seems to be the only thing in common with the original. Inspired by the coble,perhaps. I think the fisher range are attractively shaped, for their size. How small were the original boats built?
    If you lose the tunnel stern thisLines..jpg

    can be built with four panels of ply wood.

    The smallest cobles were called corfs, they were rowing tenders used by the big longlining cobles to set and recover the lines, at about 12 foot with less rake to the stern as they did not sail nor beach through surf.
    Last edited by Peerie Maa; 02-04-2018 at 01:18 PM.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  30. #65
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Your design Nick has the fore foot the others miss. Thats interesting about the 12ft boat, how accurate would the Fisher 12 coble compare in lines accuracy? I always thought that would make a good solo sail/row boat,certainly more comfortable upwind than the Fam Skiff i knocked together........such are compromises. Cheers

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    That deep forefoot keeps the bow to the waves when beaching backwards, but also keeps the bow naturally into the wind and waves, when handling lines and reefing. Its also allows the boats to naturally edge up a shallow shelving beach left to themselves in a straight line with the tide. The forefoot is balanced with the deep raking rudder.

    The tumble home allows the boat to be rolled over more easily by one man than if it didn't have the tumblehome, and the weight is taken by the thwarts not the exposed gunwale. Its a superior and stronger arrangement for boats beaching through surf that might have to be rolled back over. Also keeps the gunwale boat out of the water when its healed. The Irish Hookers did the same in the North Atlantic swell.

    Its those features that make a coble a coble. Potentially there are many features that would make for an interesting beach cruiser and still a very effective handline fishing boat for sail or a small diesel.

    I think the JW one was drawn by and sold for his friend, not John possibly.
    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 10-01-2012 at 09:26 AM.

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    I grew up in the NE, spent many holidays with an Aunt who lived on the water front at Cullercoats. At that time, late 40's and early 50's there was a very active cobble fleet stretching all they from Whitley Bay to Seahouses and beyond. I find this thread fascinating,
    You sure stirred up some splendid memories.

    Thank you. Nick

    Norman

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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Your design Nick has the fore foot the others miss. Thats interesting about the 12ft boat, how accurate would the Fisher 12 coble compare in lines accuracy? I always thought that would make a good solo sail/row boat,certainly more comfortable upwind than the Fam Skiff i knocked together........such are compromises. Cheers
    The forefoot is shallow, but as there are no pictures of the bottom of a corf we dont know by how much, although I would guess that the chin of the forefoot would be more pronounced in an older design. The mid ship section is not coble like at all, as there is little tumble home and the second strake flares too much, it should be upright.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  34. #69
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Has any one ever make up his mind planing to built this fisher 27' cobble design ?
    At my knowledge i never saw any pict of a one done. She seems very close of the original whence the model from peerie. Handsome boat.
    Drawback: 27' looks tremendously big... And why strip planking i would had like a clinker version.

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    Default Re: Building a coble

    I dont know if Paul drew the 27 up as a commission or just as a stock plan. Big open boats of this size do not seem to be overly popular, but without doubt it would still make a functional fishing/beach boat today. I think for amatuer builders,strip plank would appear to be less intimidating than clinker on a boat this size. 3/4in strip plank, i dont know if its suggetsed that it gets a sheathing inside or out.

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