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Thread: Building a coble model

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    I found this site, which you might enjoy. http://www.thecobleinart.com/victorianphotos.htm
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  2. #72
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Great photos.

  3. #73
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Question is......where can i get a pair of thigh length leather seamans boots like that? "cat in beard" funny picture. So what happened to all the corfs? Its amazing to think how many types have just dissapeared, yet gratefull that the lines of many have been saved.

  4. #74
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Question is......where can i get a pair of thigh length leather seamans boots like that? "cat in beard" funny picture. So what happened to all the corfs? Its amazing to think how many types have just dissapeared, yet gratefull that the lines of many have been saved.
    You might not find the leather sea boots now, but hand knitters are still making the ganseys in the proper way, in the round without seams.
    The corfes were used to set and turn longlines, so when trawling destroyed the longline fishery the corfes were made redundant. They finished up as tenders to boats moored off or used by yachtsmen until they wore out.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  5. #75
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Peerie your thread is great. Almost a museum of what could have been the life in this haydays. I relish to see all these handsome cobble. Indeed.

  6. #76
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    For anyone interested in the social side of East Coast coble fishermen, this book is a concise but accurate summary of life for these families, description of which was far from 'hayday'!

    The Sutcliffe Gallery is also worth a good look for a better insight into working lifestyles in the area.

    Myself, as a 'Simpson' from Whitby am fascinated by this history as many of my descendants were fishermen and boatmen around Whitby and the Esk valley. The first use of the surname 'Simpson' was in 1347, in Whitby, if you are a 'Simpson' anywhere in the world you could possibly also have lineage to this area.

    Greg
    Don't get heated...get steamed up!

  7. #77
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    I have always had a fondness for cobles from the North East. When forumites introduced me to Freeship on threads in the Design page I was able to make a start.

    I chose this coble from Cullercoats, painted in 1840 as my prototype.

    She is a four streak coble, I decided to use the proportions of a 19 to 20 foot Sunderland coble for which drawings are available.
    I lofted the planks, leaving out the keel and stem.

    Forgive me but I am new at this form of communication (too long in the tooth maybe)

    Looking at your side elevation it would appear that if standing on the floorboards the gunwhales would be about 18"? or am I wrong. If you put your rule against your leg all indications are you would easily fall out.

  8. #78
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippie View Post
    Forgive me but I am new at this form of communication (too long in the tooth maybe)

    Looking at your side elevation it would appear that if standing on the floorboards the gunwhales would be about 18"? or am I wrong. If you put your rule against your leg all indications are you would easily fall out.
    I agree she does look shallow. I used the proportions of the Sunderland coble Peggy. She measures 20 inch from top of floor timbers to the top of the gunn'l, the Eliza of Flamborough was deeper at 27 inches. I have little evidence of how the bottom boards were fitted. Bigger motor cobles seemed to build a platform level with the top of the hand hole chock at the top of the tunnel hump, but the smaller old sailing cobles must have laid the boards on the floors aft, keeping them low.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  9. #79
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    I agree she does look shallow. I used the proportions of the Sunderland coble Peggy. She measures 20 inch from top of floor timbers to the top of the gunn'l, the Eliza of Flamborough was deeper at 27 inches. I have little evidence of how the bottom boards were fitted. Bigger motor cobles seemed to build a platform level with the top of the hand hole chock at the top of the tunnel hump, but the smaller old sailing cobles must have laid the boards on the floors aft, keeping them low.
    I used that ploy to warn anyone contemplating building a working boat not to be tempted to raise the freeboard too much, especially in the WORKING AREAS. Professional builders often fall into that trap. After picking up offsets of an 18 foot sailing coble, and fairing I discovered that the height I arrived at was a mere 21 ˝” from ram plank (keel) to gunwhales. Needless to say I rode back and checked my offsets. There is a reason for this, and to others contemplating a tunnel, don’t.

    Sorry must leave hope to return.

  10. #80
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippie View Post
    I used that ploy to warn anyone contemplating building a working boat not to be tempted to raise the freeboard too much, especially in the WORKING AREAS. Professional builders often fall into that trap. After picking up offsets of an 18 foot sailing coble, and fairing I discovered that the height I arrived at was a mere 21 ˝” from ram plank (keel) to gunwhales. Needless to say I rode back and checked my offsets. There is a reason for this, and to others contemplating a tunnel, don’t.

    Sorry must leave hope to return.
    Encouraging. Knock off 2" or so for the floors and 3/4 for the bottom boards and we are within spitting distance of each other.
    Do you still have those offsetts? It would be good to draw them out as there are so few recorded examples of the old sailing cobles.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  11. #81
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Quote Originally Posted by akitchen View Post
    Wonderful work! The apple wood is a nice touch. I'm so glad to see a resurgence of interest in the coble,
    a truly marvelous craft in my biased opinion.

    Coble lovers might be interested in my attempt at coble building. My model is based on "Eliza", a Flamborough coble
    features in a number of books on british working craft. I built the model in preparation for a full size build (well
    80%, 19 ft reduced from 24 ft).




    Notice that the rudder is not traditional. It is a kick-up rudder designed to work in the rather shallow waters were I
    sail. It remains to be seen how it will affect the balance. My wood is much less interesting: bass wood from the
    local craft store. I'll probably use oak and douglas fir for the full sized version.

    More info and pictures at:
    http://www.cs.rit.edu/~atk/HOME/ Click on "Boats" then on "Coble".

    Andrew
    Excellent work congratulations, you can put your name on that , as the saying goes.
    I see the listings (often omitted) the sand strakes have a nice curve in the “rise of floor. I must say I prefer the Northumberland’s lower stern. That is only cosmetic and in no way am I being critical. One of the best I’ve seen, thank you.
    Last edited by Chippie; 01-27-2013 at 06:29 AM. Reason: Adding to indicate my admiration.

  12. #82
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    Default Re: Building a coble

    Moved to be with the other model threads
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  13. #83
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    Default Re: Building a coble model

    Thanks, Nick! I missed this one the first time around, or maybe my memory isn't so good anymore. It's a wonderful build thread. Thanks for the motivation to prune my apple trees! I've been thinking of harvesting some applewood for model building for some time and the trees really need a trim.

    Beautiful model!

  14. #84
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    Default Re: Building a coble model

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Cleek View Post
    Thanks, Nick! I missed this one the first time around, or maybe my memory isn't so good anymore. It's a wonderful build thread. Thanks for the motivation to prune my apple trees! I've been thinking of harvesting some applewood for model building for some time and the trees really need a trim.

    Beautiful model!
    Those trees need to be badly overgrown. I ran out of apple and had to use some oak as well.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  15. #85
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    Default Re: Building a coble model




    Quote Originally Posted by Chippie View Post
    Excellent work congratulations, you can put your name on that , as the saying goes.
    I see the listings (often omitted) the sand strakes have a nice curve in the “rise of floor. I must say I prefer the Northumberland’s lower stern. That is only cosmetic and in no way am I being critical. One of the best I’ve seen, thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Moved to be with the other model threads
    There is a question posed on my thread by Rich Jones which I can't answer and I referred them to you Nick.

    Incidentally the magnificent model by akitchen above indicates the extreme shape of the sheer strake and the problem of fitting the gunwhale,
    can you furnish the way that sheer curve is arrived at.
    One way would be to mark the frame stations on a wall parallel with the boats C/L, draw a nice soothing curve and level each position that intersects a frame station to the appropriate station at the vessel.
    Not a way I would approach it what do you think?
    Last edited by Chippie; 01-14-2019 at 07:38 AM.

  16. #86
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    Default Re: Building a coble model

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippie View Post








    There is a question posed on my thread by Rich Jones which I can't answer and I referred them to you Nick.

    Incidentally the magnificent model by akitchen above indicates the extreme shape of the sheer strake and the problem of fitting the gunwhale,
    can you furnish the way that sheer curve is arrived at.
    One way would be to mark the frame stations on a wall parallel with the boats C/L, draw a nice soothing curve and level each position that intersects a frame station to the appropriate station at the vessel.
    Not a way I would approach it what do you think?
    I would set the height at stem, stern and measure up to set the depth in the middle of the length, mark these heights on the shear streak and wrap a batten around it. Then stand well back and sight it and adjust until eye sweet. I read that the commissioning owner would tell the builder what the key dimensions should be so the builder knew what he was aiming at.
    Shetland model and Norwegian shell first boats were lined off that way as well.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  17. #87
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    Default Re: Building a coble model

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    I would set the height at stem, stern and measure up to set the depth in the middle of the length, mark these heights on the shear streak and wrap a batten around it. Then stand well back and sight it and adjust until eye sweet. I read that the commissioning owner would tell the builder what the key dimensions should be so the builder knew what he was aiming at.
    Shetland model and Norwegian shell first boats were lined off that way as well.
    So that comes down to "it is sighted in to suit the individual" I accept that to a point but on studying the body plans of various craft I think there is a more "engineered" approach to the problem.

  18. #88
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    Default Re: Building a coble model

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippie View Post
    So that comes down to "it is sighted in to suit the individual" I accept that to a point but on studying the body plans of various craft I think there is a more "engineered" approach to the problem.
    Not with cobles, it is all by eye and experience. There were sufficient new builds every year for the owners to form a good idea on what worked and what they wanted and for the builders to be able to meet their needs.

    Same with the inshore trawl boats on my coast. The owner discussed and approved a half model of the new boat with the builder before it was lofted on the scrieve board.
    Last edited by Peerie Maa; 01-14-2019 at 11:34 AM.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  19. #89
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    Default Re: Building a coble model

    So now you are introducing a half model and we are drawing nearer to the "engineered" approach to the problem.

    I don't go along with the "owner" trying to influence the hull shape at all in the period under discussion that would come later with the installation of machinery,then they would only ask for thofts /tholes and mast stay blocks what colour it should be painted small requirements after all they were paying practical builder to attend to the major problem of a hull that would prove seaworthy and absorb any rough handling and hold together. which had been tried and tested over centuries.

  20. #90
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    Default Re: Building a coble model

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippie View Post
    So now you are introducing a half model and we are drawing nearer to the "engineered" approach to the problem.

    I don't go along with the "owner" trying to influence the hull shape at all in the period under discussion that would come later with the installation of machinery,then they would only ask for thofts /tholes and mast stay blocks what colour it should be painted small requirements after all they were paying practical builder to attend to the major problem of a hull that would prove seaworthy and absorb any rough handling and hold together. which had been tried and tested over centuries.
    I disagree. The man with the money to lay down always has a big say on what he is buying. If one builder won't play ball there were always others who would.

    One historical source records that the coble owners carried a piece of string with knots recording the key dimensions of his coble. He would use this to compare his coble with any new boat on the landing. Then when ordering a new one he would ask for one like so and so, but so much wider here and fuller/finer there.

    The reference to half models was to the building of carvel sailing trawlers (Nobbys) on the Irish Sea Coast. Again built without drawings and so comparable to cobles that also had no drawings in their construction.
    Last edited by Peerie Maa; 01-14-2019 at 03:52 PM.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  21. #91
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    Default Re: Building a coble model

    Interesting to see this old thread come alive again.

    Just a comment on the approach I took with my model. I read somewhere - don't have the reference anymore unfortunately - that a builder would typically keep a record of plank widths and angles at specified stations for craft he had built. These he could use as guides, along with an experienced eye, as he build his next boat.

    I tried to follow that approach with the model: after drawing the lines, I made a table of angles and plank widths at a number of stations. As I built the craft, I spiled the lower edge of each strake off the upper edge of the previous one and used the plank widths to rough cut the upper edge of the new strake. This rough cut plank was then set in place using the angles from my table. The angles and widths of this plank were then refined by eye. I used fine wire to hold everything together and kept the strakes at the correct angles with popsicle sticks, wired and screwed in place, until the glue had set (essentially, stitch-n-glue).

    No molds were used, the shape of the hull arose out of the plank widths and angles. Overall, this worked well, but I did have to back up and make some modifications to the plank widths in the after portion of the hull when I saw that the shape wasn't developing the way I wanted. Clearly, an experienced builder would avoid that problem.

    One effect of building by eye in this way is that one is constantly evaluating the flow of each strake, not just the shear. This way the line of the shear grows organically out of the building process. It is interesting to look at old photos of old cobles, and at the few remaining boats, and see that some builders definitely had a better eye than others.

    By the way, Nick, I gather from your photos that you built your model using basically the same approach that I did.

    - Andrew
    Last edited by akitchen; 01-14-2019 at 04:31 PM.

  22. #92
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    Default Re: Building a coble model

    Quote Originally Posted by akitchen View Post
    Interesting to see this old thread come alive again.

    Just a comment on the approach I took with my model. I read somewhere - don't have the reference anymore unfortunately - that a builder would typically keep a record of plank widths and angles at specified stations for craft he had built. These he could use as guides, along with an experienced eye, as he build his next boat.

    I tried to follow that approach with the model: after drawing the lines, I made a table of angles and plank widths at a number of stations. As I built the craft, I spiled the lower edge of each strake off the upper edge of the previous one and used the plank widths to rough cut the upper edge of the new strake. This rough cut plank was then set in place using the angles from my table. The angles and widths of this plank were then refined by eye. I used fine wire to hold everything together and kept the strakes at the correct angles with popsicle sticks, wired and screwed in place, until the glue had set (essentially, stitch-n-glue).

    No molds were used, the shape of the hull arose out of the plank widths and angles. Overall, this worked well, but I did have to back up and make some modifications to the plank widths in the after portion of the hull when I saw that the shape wasn't developing the way I wanted. Clearly, an experienced builder would avoid that problem.

    One effect of building by eye in this way is that one is constantly evaluating the flow of each strake, not just the shear. This way the line of the shear grows organically out of the building process. It is interesting to look at old photos of old cobles, and at the few remaining boats, and see that some builders definitely had a better eye than others.

    By the way, Nick, I gather from your photos that you built your model using basically the same approach that I did.

    - Andrew
    Pretty well, but I cheated. I lofted her in Freeship and printed out the plank expansions. I could then cut cardboard templates to check the spiling before cutting into the wood.
    You can see the plank expansion in the background of this image


    I could and did check the heights of the top edges of each strake.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  23. #93
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    Default Re: Building a coble model

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippie View Post
    I used that ploy to warn anyone contemplating building a working boat not to be tempted to raise the freeboard too much, especially in the WORKING AREAS. Professional builders often fall into that trap. After picking up offsets of an 18 foot sailing coble, and fairing I discovered that the height I arrived at was a mere 21 ˝” from ram plank (keel) to gunwhales. Needless to say I rode back and checked my offsets. There is a reason for this, and to others contemplating a tunnel, don’t.

    Sorry must leave hope to return.
    In the 60's I was involved in drift net salmon fishing which prompted my post above and perhaps explains why am only interested in "working craft" and the easiest approach to the building of them.
    Big is best was the buzz thing in the 60's and the traditional coble fell out of favour.
    I remember the Burncrest possibly the largest coble built it was certainly the biggest I have seen.
    Talking to the owner at the time he wasn't at all pleased with his purchase solely because the water surface was out of reach for overhauling nets by hand and everything had to be picked up by a boathook.

    Hence the warning above. #79 above.
    https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...rest&FORM=IGRE
    Last edited by Chippie; 01-15-2019 at 11:38 AM.

  24. #94
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    Default Re: Building a coble model

    Chippie "One way would be to mark the frame stations on a wall parallel with the boats C/L, draw a nice soothing curve and level each position that intersects a frame station to the appropriate station at the vessel." #85

    Nick I would set the height at stem, stern and measure up to set the depth in the middle of the length, mark these heights on the shear streak and wrap a batten around it. Then stand well back and sight it and adjust until eye sweet. #86

    Just realised that only complicates the method I suggested and said I wouldn't pursue.

    I'll return to http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...rry-on-Chippie hoping to carry on
    that one.
    Last edited by Chippie; 01-15-2019 at 11:36 AM.

  25. #95
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    Default Re: Building a coble model

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippie View Post
    In the 60's I was involved in drift net salmon fishing which prompted my post above and perhaps explains why am only interested in "working craft" and the easiest approach to the building of them.
    Big is best was the buzz thing in the 60's and the traditional coble fell out of favour.
    I remember the Burncrest possibly the largest coble built it was certainly the biggest I have seen.
    Talking to the owner at the time he wasn't at all pleased with his purchase solely because the water surface was out of reach for overhauling nets by hand and everything had to be picked up by a billhook.

    Hence the warning above. #79 above.
    https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...rest&FORM=IGRE
    Can't argue with that, the nobbys on our coast had low freeboard for the very same reason.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Building a coble model



    This particular model is from lines I picked up in the 60's from the "Lily" Rocky Crosby's foycoble which was built in the 19th Century, I went on to build a full size and Drift Netted until offered a more ruminative position in Shipbuilding. I still hold a great interest in all things Sea and rely on my hands-on experience from those long gone days
    I built that model over the Christmas period to substantiate an answer that I had for a problem that arose elsewhere.
    Not of Museum standard I know, and certainly not worthy of a Case.

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    Default Re: Building a coble model

    Regarding cases, I know that protection is the main concern but they detract from the models.

    Most people who are introduced to cobles enthuse on their shape and as they were developed to tackle the obstacles that Nature had presented, in their particular location, the lines that we end up with are at one with it.

    IMO model boats should give an illusion of motion, the coble is one that does that excellently, when they decided in the 70's to start building them bigger that was lost to a large degree.

    A case detracts from that illusion, giving a constrictive feel to what should be a free spirit.

    The only thing worse than that is putting one in a bottle.

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