let's see if we can agree on something...

[Phillip Allen]

I propose we pick among TSA, Patriot Act or Homeland Security

who would like to see them repealed?

(I'm sure that 'certain' government agencies are now tuned into this forum so speak up that you may be heard clearly)

[Paul Pless]

fart

[Phillip Allen]

I take it, Paul, that you do not want this to be discussed?

[Paul Pless]

i didn't say that

[Phillip Allen]

i didn't say that

can you be clearer then? What do you mean? Do you support these government programs?

[botebum]

I take it, Paul, that you do not want this to be discussed?

Paul's bucking for a cush job at the nearby US-CA border so I can get into Cantada to see my friends.
Don't ef it up Phillip!

Doug

[Ian McColgin]

Meanwhile, from the liberal side, the civil liberties side, all three are terrible.

[Phillip Allen]

Meanwhile, from the liberal side, the civil liberties side, all three are terrible.

what would have to happen to get rid of any of them?

BTW, I agree with you

[Mrleft8]

what would have to happen to get rid of any of them?

All the current republican, and half the current democratic congresscritters/senators will have to be replaced with honest people with no ulterior motives.

[Phillip Allen]

All the current republican, and half the current democratic congresscritters/senators will have to be replaced with honest people with no ulterior motives.

in general, yes... but is there anything the voters can do beside vague, non-commited talk about 'voting them out'

[Paul Pless]

All the current republican, and half the current democratic congresscritters/senators will have to be replaced with honest people with no ulterior motives.

Don't forget the president. We'd have to replace him too. Despite running on a campaign against further encroachment of civil liberties he continues to sign away laws and executive orders that go beyond even W.

[Mrleft8]

in general, yes... but is there anything the voters can do beside vague, non-commited talk about 'voting them out'

Sure. Get everyone you know, and everyone that they know, etc. to agree to break the laws that these agencies/laws cover. If enough people do it, the laws won't be enforced, and the agencies will fade away..... Just like Prohibition.

[Phillip Allen]

Don't forget the president. We'd have to replace him too. Despite running on a campaign against further encroachment of civil liberties he continues to sign away laws and executive orders that go beyond even W.

that can be delt with in a few months... I may have to hold my nose and vote for the bishop (and then fire him in 4 years or sooner if he makes it possible)... as much as I hate to

so, what else?

[The Bigfella]

in general, yes... but is there anything the voters can do beside vague, non-commited talk about 'voting them out'

They could move to Oz.... but I think we'd need to hold a referendum on whether to let them in or not

[LeeG]

Homeland Security



what a crock

[ljb5]

You want something we can all agree on?

Try this on: Gas prices are down nearly 40 cents!

Great news, right?

(Don't let your head explode.)

[Nicholas Scheuer]

OK, let's repeal TSA like you seem to want, Phillip. How many airliners can you stand to see get bombed out of the sky before you change your mind, Phillip? Give us a f-----g number.

[Garret]

Don't forget the president. We'd have to replace him too. Despite running on a campaign against further encroachment of civil liberties he continues to sign away laws and executive orders that go beyond even W.

I agree Obama has not helped - but you actually think Romney will be better? You are joking, right? That weasel would take away every right he could & require us to attend a church of his choice if he could.

[Phillip Allen]

I agree Obama has not helped - but you actually think Romney will be better? You are joking, right? That weasel would take away every right he could & require us to attend a church of his choice if he could.

I agree... but I don't think he can. Such a move by any president would unite this country once again. I think it may be best to hire em and fire em at 4 year entervals for long enough for those theives to get the message... and, yes, it will be hard work

[Phillip Allen]

OK, let's repeal TSA like you seem to want, Phillip. How many airliners can you stand to see get bombed out of the sky before you change your mind, Phillip? Give us a f-----g number.

it is an ilusion to think we cannot create a LEGAL agency to replace that thugish one... WE are the ones who are suppose to control our politicians and not the other way around. I submit that the terrorism arising from the middle east has been used by certain arrogant AMERICANS to beat down our common sense defenses... to bend our knees to Washington terrorists is not an improvenemt over middle eastern terrorism.
I do not think you actually believe that fingernail clippers can be used to blow up a plane... better to get realistic

[The Bigfella]

That's funny... I flew with fingernail clippers in my hand luggage just this week.

[Garret]

it is an ilusion to think we cannot create a LEGAL agency to replace that thugish one... WE are the ones who are suppose to control our politicians and not the other way around. I submit that the terrorism arising from the middle east has been used by certain arrogant AMERICANS to beat down our common sense defenses... to bend our knees to Washington terrorists is not an improvenemt over middle eastern terrorism.
I do not think you actually believe that fingernail clippers can be used to blow up a plane... better to get realistic

Actually, you can fly with fingernail clippers now - as long as they don't have a nail file.

However, I agree that terrorism has been used by many in DC to gain power. Rove & Wolfowitcz started it all, but lots jumped on the bandwagon when they realized just how cowed & stupid the voting public has become.

[ljb5]

I do not think you actually believe that fingernail clippers can be used to blow up a plane... better to get realistic

Fingernail clippers are allowed by the TSA.

They even have a comment about it on their blog:

http://blog.tsa.gov/2009/05/tsa-urba...-clippers.html

Lastly, nail clippers. I can't even count the number of times I have heard or seen this... Totally not true. Way back when, 2001, pre-TSA, post 9-11, nail clippers were prohibited, probably an immediate reaction to the events of that day. However, when we came along, we changed the list, allowed nail clippers, but still get accused of being pro-long finger nail. Totally not true.
Trim those nails, in flight if you want, just be sure the passenger sitting next to you doesn't mind a flying hang nail..

I wonder if, sometimes, Phillip you get mad about issues because you're not well informed about them and you just automatically assume (without checking, naturally), that there's something to be mad about.

[Phillip Allen]

Fingernail clippers are allowed by the TSA.

They even have a comment about it on their blog:

http://blog.tsa.gov/2009/05/tsa-urba...-clippers.html

do you believe TSA had never banned fingernail clippers? Is that what you want us to believe? But why bog down over fingernail clippers... is that just a diversion? If so, then it is dishonest... shall we bog down over shampoo or sodas or toys of one sort or another?... heel dragging is counter productive to the point of being obstructionist and serves the wrong powers

[Phillip Allen]

Actually, you can fly with fingernail clippers now - as long as they don't have a nail file.

However, I agree that terrorism has been used by many in DC to gain power. Rove & Wolfowitcz started it all, but lots jumped on the bandwagon when they realized just how cowed & stupid the voting public has become.

how about if the DO have a nail file... does that cast doubt on lj's diversion or not?

[Garret]

One of the most stupid things you have ever said.

Your opinion sir. I personally believe Romney could possibly become the worst president this country ever had. He has shown over & over again he will say anything to please his current audience. He made his money on the backs of honest workers & calls himself a Christian. I find the man absolutely despicable.

Vote for the phoney Christian & see just how many more freedoms you'll lose. We saw what happened with spineless Bush II & Romney's worse.

[Garret]

how about if the DO have a nail file... does that cast doubt on lj's diversion or not?

Like you, I don't care about the clippers. I agree with you about HS & the "Patriot" Act. I just happen to believe that Romney will do everything he can to strengthen them - whereas Obama just hasn't tried to stop them. A matter of degree IMO. Neither is good, Obama is less bad.

[ljb5]

Actually, you can fly with fingernail clippers now - as long as they don't have a nail file.

A nail file is okay. A knife is not.

My clippers have a file on them and I've traveled with them dozens of times without any problem.

[ljb5]

how about if the DO have a nail file... does that cast doubt on lj's diversion or not?

You're the one who brought up nail clippers.

Why is it okay for you to post false information, but not okay for me to post correct information?

[Captain Intrepid]

Homeland Security



what a crock

[Phillip Allen]

I'd like to see more people act on this thread in good faith... some are conspicuously NOT doing so... so long as we remain polorized, we can be controled willy-nilly

to continue, some people believe TSA is now reasonable (not mentioning any unreasonable behaviour on TSA's part, of course)
so, if TSA cannot be fixed, what of other control agencies?

[Garret]

I'd like to see more people act on this thread in good faith... some are conspicuously NOT doing so...

to continue, some people believe TSA is now reasonable (not mentioning any unreasonable behaviour on TSA's part, of course)
so, if TSA cannot be fixed, what of other control agencies?

TSA bothers me far less than the rest of HS. It's just a small part of our new police state - courtesy of HS. Break up HS, curb the individual agency's powers, repeal the "Patriot act" & the detention provisions of the NDAA & maybe we can start getting back to what this country was founded on.

Just to prolong the clipper agony - I got some nail clippers confiscated because of the nail file about 3 or 4 years ago. YMMV.

[Old Dryfoot]

[Phillip Allen]

TSA bothers me far less than the rest of HS. It's just a small part of our new police state - courtesy of HS. Break up HS, curb the individual agency's powers, repeal the "Patriot act" & the detention provisions of the NDAA & maybe we can start getting back to what this country was founded on.

Just to prolong the clipper agony - I got some nail clippers confiscated because of the nail file about 3 or 4 years ago. YMMV.

yes, I know about the clippers... someone thinks the rest of us won't notice if he misdirects the 'truth' a bit... I'd rather find something to agree on instead of having to listen to someone trying to dominate others to make himself feel better about himself

[Phillip Allen]

so, if the Patriot act is to be repealed, how can we, as a group, facilitate that better (with our very limited power)

[Garret]

so, if the Patriot act is to be repealed, how can we, as a group, facilitate that better (with our very limited power)

Vote against everyone who supported it. And tell them (loudly) that's why you are voting against them.

[Phillip Allen]

Vote against everyone who supported it. And tell them (loudly) that's why you are voting against them.

that much I will do but what about misinformation being fed to us even here?

that's what I mean about changing politicos every term until they get the message... hold your nose if you have to but fire em every chance ya get until they start acting for us instead of themsleves

[hanleyclifford]

The Ron Paul option was available. Name a country that voted tryanny out.

[Gerarddm]

Al three are crud, but the Patriot Act is a clear and present danger. I remain horrified that Obama has made no move to gut it. He is getting no campaign dollars from me accordingly.

[John Smith]

what would have to happen to get rid of any of them?

BTW, I agree with you

I think I'd want to get rid of everything created by the fear factor following 9/11. If we are truly concerned about another 9/11, we should redesign the planes so there is NO door between the cockpit and the passenger area. I would have the plane built so the pilot could push a button and everyone on the other side of the door would go to sleep. The cockpit would have tv monitors for all parts of the plane.

[Garret]

I remain horrified that Obama has made no move to gut it. He is getting no campaign dollars from me accordingly.

I am too - however, Romney continues to get tons of $ from people who are afraid, people who want to end freedom (whether religious or amendment rights), and all the corporate interests. While it won't be as bad - look what happened in WI where Walker got 65% of his 7x advantage from out of state supporters. Even if you can't support Obama, think of supporting him as fighting Romney - a worthy cause IMO.

[Phillip Allen]

I think I'd want to get rid of everything created by the fear factor following 9/11. If we are truly concerned about another 9/11, we should redesign the planes so there is NO door between the cockpit and the passenger area. I would have the plane built so the pilot could push a button and everyone on the other side of the door would go to sleep. The cockpit would have tv monitors for all parts of the plane.

this says most of it for me, John. It is v ery depressing that all those millions of people can be driven like geese to the slaughter. There is no doubt at all that our politicos knew this and took advatange of us... it probably should be considered a criminal offence

Great care must be taken to avoid being polorized... it is what will enslave us all

[Paul Pless]

I remain horrified that Obama has made no move to gut it. He is getting no campaign dollars from me accordingly.

Next election, vote out EVERY Democrat, from EVERY office, at EVERY level. Be patriotic!

[Phillip Allen]

Next election, vote out EVERY Democrat, from EVERY office, at EVERY level. Be patriotic!

I understand you, Paul but the one-party fans won't get it

[Chris Woodward]

Phillip, I'm with you on this one. I live within 100 miles of the border. within 5 miles of my home. on any given day, at any given hour I can run in to a Dept. of Homeland Security, Customs and Border Patrol ..............checkpoint. If they do not like my looks or attitude or smell or whatever, they can drag me into detention for whatever; whenever, and for however long that they deem me to be a threat. And they do not need to inform any one that I am under their custody, or why, or for what duration. Ever. We are very close to a gardarme.......... state and people don't realize what they are giving up in the name of security.

[Glen Longino]

I understand you, Paul but the one-party fans won't get it

Translation:
It's you and me against the rest of America, Paul!
You and I are the only ones who get the "big picture", Paul!
Everybody else is ignorant and can't see the "big picture" like you and I see it, right Paul?
Can we agree on that, Paul?

[Phillip Allen]

Translation:
It's you and me against the rest of America, Paul!
You and I are the only ones who get the "big picture", Paul!
Everybody else is ignorant and can't see the "big picture" like you and I see it, right Paul?
Can we agree on that, Paul?

somethin botherin you, Glen?

[Glen Longino]

somethin botherin you, Glen?

somethin botherin you, Phillip?
Yes, always?
I figgered!

[Phillip Allen]

Glen, you are a grumpy old man

[skuthorp]

Homeland Security



what a crock

Would Orwell be amused or horrified?