Dyarchy interior pictures

[Pegasus]

Hi

Can anybody link me to some interior pictures of this boat? I've looked online but can't find any - are they in a book?

John

[rbgarr]

One of Ferenc Mate's 'Best Sailboats' books?

[Bob Cleek]

I've researched Dyarchy extensively over the years and I have found none. (There are a number of pictures of Dyarchy and her deck and rigging details in Hiscock's "Cruising Under Sail," but no interior pics. The original Dyarchy's interior was not designed by Giles, but by her owner, Roger Pinkney, a house architect. It was he who came up with her curved "easy chairs" in the saloon. None of the subsequent Dyarchy sisterships have reproduced Pinkney's interior design, although that is the one which is depicted in Giles' plans. Beyond those oddities, the finish and detail was unremarkably traditional.

[John B]

I feel like I've seen pictures of those chairs somewhere. One of Uffa Fox's Blue books? We have a good Dyarchy sister ship here called Sorceress but I can't tell you how she's laid out below.

[John B]

Maybe not.. There's good interior plans in the Fox blue book Thoughts on Yachts and Yachting. Maybe thats what I recall seeing.

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

... and I've just been looking at Ferenc's "Finely Fitted Yacht" but without success. Like you though John, I have this feeling I've seen them somewhere. I daresay they were copied a few times over the years though, so maybe we're thinking of different vessels.

Mike

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

I, too, feel sure that I have seen pictures of the interior. Not in Hiscock and not in the Giles designs book. Not in Fox. I recall a wide bar, rather than a bum strap, in the galley, one that the cook could sit on in decent weather.

[CapnJ2ds]

I, too, feel sure that I have seen pictures of the interior. Not in Hiscock and not in the Giles designs book. Not in Fox. I recall a wide bar, rather than a bum strap, in the galley, one that the cook could sit on in decent weather.

The galley picture with the "bum bar" was indeed in early editions of Hiscock's "Cruising Under Sail", and I think there was one of the saloon too. Will try to find time to dig out my copy and confirm, but it's up in my storage. Then again, the saloon shot may have been in "Wandering Under Sail", the earlier Hiscock book which dealt with his first two "Wanderers", both "Dyarchys" and "Tern II". Will try and dig that out too.

[Paul Pless]

I, too, feel sure that I have seen pictures of the interior. Not in Hiscock and not in the Giles designs book. Not in Fox.

Me too. I'm thinking Roger Taylor.

[TR]

I don't recall ever seeing photographs of Dyarchy's interior, but I never saw those early (rare here) Hiscock books. I've studied the drawings in Taylor's Good Boats, and the Giles book among other places. I was always impressed the boat has no dedicated head, just a toilet under a bench in the foc'sl. Unusual!

[Pegasus]

Thanks for all the suggestions so far which I'll be checking out.

[TR]

I have the second edition of Cruising Under Sail and there are no Dyarchy interior photos in it.......

[John B]

I don't recall ever seeing photographs of Dyarchy's interior, but I never saw those early (rare here) Hiscock books. I've studied the drawings in Taylor's Good Boats, and the Giles book among other places. I was always impressed the boat has no dedicated head, just a toilet under a bench in the foc'sl. Unusual!

Same here, had to read the text to find out where the thing was. Trying selling that idea now.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Out of interest, I will scan the drawings of CORISTA, a boat sometimes mistaken for DYARCHY, and post those, tomorrow.

[CapnJ2ds]

I have the second edition of Cruising Under Sail and there are no Dyarchy interior photos in it.......

Haven't dug my copy out yet, but I think it's the first edition - I've had it for 50+ years.

[CapnJ2ds]

I was always impressed the boat has no dedicated head, just a toilet under a bench in the foc'sl. Unusual!

Wasn't quite so unusual back then. Some considered that putting the dunny in a little compartment of its own wasn't a good idea. Guess it wouldn't be too bad if you weren't sharing the focsle with crew members in bunks. (?)

[CapnJ2ds]

Out of interest, I will scan the drawings of CORISTA, a boat sometimes mistaken for DYARCHY, and post those, tomorrow.

Ooh! Goody! That's the J. Francis Jones cutter of about the same size? With the housing topmast? Always liked the design, but haven't seen it for years. is the boat herself still about, do you know?

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

That is she.

Sorry I have not had a chance to scan the drawings yet.

Built for Philip Allen as the replacement for my own boat Mirelle.

She was sailed to Canada by her second owner, then alas she had a fire on board and was burned.

[CapnJ2ds]

That is she. Sorry I have not had a chance to scan the drawings yet. Built for Philip Allen as the replacement for my own boat Mirelle. She was sailed to Canada by her second owner, then alas she had a fire on board and was burned.

Tragedy! Can think of a heap of boats that should have burned first.

Have dug out my "Cruising Under Sail". It's the 1st edition, 2nd impression, 1954. Was given it as a birthday present in '57. Got Hiscock to autograph it in '83.
No, I don't want to sell it - rather sell my first-born.

Yes, it has the photo of "Dyarchy's" galley with the bum-bar in the foreground, and the photo of the saloon, showing the built in armchairs. A friend who can actually do computer stuff like that is scanning the pics and sending them to me in web format. I'll look up one of the threads on how to post them here and give it a go. Don't hold your collective breath; I'm a slow learner.

If anyone (e.g. Pegasus) can't wait, I could probably attach the pics to a pm.

(If anyone interested in 1st-born, am open to offers. He 40+, BCom in Communications Science(??), likes younger women and Jack Daniels. Any reasonable contribution to my pension account considered. Caveat Emptor!!​)

[CapnJ2ds]

The original Dyarchy's interior was not designed by Giles, but by her owner, Roger Pinkney, a house architect.

As I understand it, Giles designed the interior to Pinkney's requirements.

[CapnJ2ds]

[IMG]http:

The saloon - I hope!

[CapnJ2ds]

The galley, with bum-bar prominent. (He said, with slightly more confidence.)

[TR]

Thanks for those Cap......and before you sell off the first born, I'll remind you they are handy when there's heavy lifting to be done......

And for general interest's sake....here's the intriguing yawl Heptarchy, designed by Percy Dalton in 1976, built at Gweek (place or yard?), and launched in 1979.



It's too bad her sheer goes flat in the aft few feet.......nice boat otherwise.

[Stephen]

There were some color photos of Dyarchy's interior in a Classic Boat magazine a few years ago. Perhaps a search in their index might produce them?
There was a fair amount of Red Cedar used in her interior.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

The galley, with bum-bar prominent. (He said, with slightly more confidence.)

Bravo! Those are the pictures that I remember.

[CapnJ2ds]

Thanks for those Cap......and before you sell off the first born, I'll remind you they are handy when there's heavy lifting to be done......

And for general interest's sake....here's the intriguing yawl Heptarchy, designed by Percy Dalton in 1976, built at Gweek (place or yard?), and launched in 1979.

It's too bad her sheer goes flat in the aft few feet.......nice boat otherwise.

Nice boat, though I think you're right about the sheer aft, especially with the tumble-home there. Wouldn't be too hard to get rid of the mizzen and take the main boom out to the transom.
Where was the plan published?

Gweek: little port town in Cornwall. No doubt a local will pop up here to tell us more about it.

Using son for heavy lifting? Hmm. I could tie one end of a halliard to the object-to-be-lifted, the other to the son, then chuck 'im overboard. that what you had in mind? Have two sons, so could spare one for experimental purposes I guess.

[John B]

A couple of gratuitous photos.
Dyarchy's sister coming in to moorings beside us in about 06.





sailing in about 02.

[Bob Cleek]

Great photos, both of Dyarchy's interior and of Sorceress. I've never see the saloon shot. I have all of the Hiscocks' books, but not a first edition of "Cruising..." Sorceress is one of those boats that has never taken a bad picture. She's just stunning.

[John B]

The second edition " Cruising" has a galley shot complete with bum bar but for Cardhu. I remembered the arrangement , but a different boat.

[goodbasil]

In a Roger Taylor book I think. If some one hasn't mentioned it yet.

Drawing only I think, not photos.

[keyhavenpotterer]

Website for the boatyard at Gweek on the Helford River. They build new pilot cutters there still. Proper place.




http://gweekquay.co.uk/on-site/working-sail

'Scuse the boat porn. They've got Giles' Lutine for sale.

Designed by Giles, built by Camper and Nicholson for LLoyds of London's Yacht Club. Teak below WL on steel frames. Class 1 60ft Ocean racer. Pedigree.

Ed

[skaraborgcraft]

I was one of the liveaboards at Gweek Quay for a number of years,shortly before the arrival of the late Clive Emerson,owner of Lutine of Helford. Heptarchy was a great boat,but showing signs of wear and tear after years of use and i think the maintenance was not kept on top of...pretty nasty to see weeping blisters on a ferro hull.
Clive did a great job on Lutine,she was launched on the highest spring tide and with air bags under her quarters to reduce the draft to get her down river to her mooring...Clive was pretty stressed that day.
Luke Powell is now on his 5th or 6th Pilot cutter from the yard,and having seen 3 come together,i have to say i love seeing big boats in frame before planking. David Walkey was/is restoring the pilot cutter Kindly Light (1907 i think),and believe she was launched last year with some interior work still to complete. Gweek was an interesting place to spend a few years,i remember very wet and damp winters,cold in the valley,(and a good excuse for visiting the pub everynight ) but the Helford river itself was a nice place to be and more peacefull than Falmouth.

[Hesp]

"David Walkey was/is restoring the pilot cutter Kindly Light (1907 i think),and believe she was launched last year with some interior work still to complete."

John

[John B]

Peter Brookes client has stopped work on the pilot cutter here and its now for sale.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boat...-484328884.htm



someone with vision required to have the thing completed, and then embark on a nice little 1/2 RTW voyage back to J.O.E

[Pegasus]

What a great resource this site is - I've been wondering about the interior of Dyarchy for many years and now I have some images to think about and as a bonus some pictures of sorceress too. Thanks to all. John

[John B]

There's lines and interior plan in Peter Heatons penguin book " Cruising" as well.

[Hwyl]

Saw her under full sail in Antigua, breathtakingly pretty. Her owner, Crispin, was an different drummer, we were in the Admirals Inn, in English Harbour, he'd cut his finger and so decided to dance with every girl dressed in white, thereby leaving his mark on their dress.

He was murdered in odd circumstances in Sint Maarten (never a safe place)

As was said a wonderful ferro boat, Jeremy Burnett knows quite a bit about her, she's in my top 50 of favourite boats.

Thanks for those Cap......and before you sell off the first born, I'll remind you they are handy when there's heavy lifting to be done......

And for general interest's sake....here's the intriguing yawl Heptarchy, designed by Percy Dalton in 1976, built at Gweek (place or yard?), and launched in 1979.



It's too bad her sheer goes flat in the aft few feet.......nice boat otherwise.

[CapnJ2ds]

Peter Brookes client has stopped work on the pilot cutter here and its now for sale.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boat...-484328884.htm



someone with vision required to have the thing completed, and then embark on a nice little 1/2 RTW voyage back to J.O.E

Get thee behind me, Satan! (Drool! Sigh!)

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Peter Brookes client has stopped work on the pilot cutter here and its now for sale.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boat...-484328884.htm



someone with vision required to have the thing completed, and then embark on a nice little 1/2 RTW voyage back to J.O.E

Not so much the vision - many of us have that - more a matter of the money!

This happens very often - someone sets out to have a boat built to "perfect" standards and runs out of money halfway.

This hull is to a much much higher standard than the working pilot skiffs were built to - in general they are rather lightly framed, and often with any old rubbish, even including sapwood.

[TR]

Where was the plan published?

I believe that drawing of Heptarchy was published in Classic Boat, probably part of a John Leather piece on Dalton's work. I did know she was cement but had forgotton that fact. I think it's rather interesting to study there older "more powerful forward than aft" hulls. The pilot cutters show the same shape.......one wonders about a race between one of these and an identical hull with different volume distribution.......That is slightly finer forward and fuller aft...should stand up better going to windward, but dive deeper off the wind....so many conditions to consider........

[keyhavenpotterer]

http://www.bcpcoa.com/

[Stephen]

Dyarchy shows up a few times in this film from 1965 when she was moored next to Carlotta off St Mawes.
Check out this video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2BYI...e_gdata_player

You can see her at the 2:00 minute mark.

[CapnJ2ds]

Doing it backwards, but hopefully doing it

[CapnJ2ds]

...... and the first shall be last.

[Jeremy Burnett]

I have a photo somewhere, currently cant find it, of Dyarchy, Carlotta, Kelpie (Crispin Rushworth Lund's boat at that time) and Moya a most beautiful large prawner yacht racing in the Old gaffers race at Dartmouth in the 70's. Wonderful big boats. Moya and Dyarchy now in the Med, Carlotta often seen on the Forum.Percy Dalton, who designed Heptarchy,and drew lines for Falmouth working boats was an interesting character. He was a trained artist and many people round here, including me, have paintings by him of packet ships and other craft. He was the draftsman at Falmouth Boat Co. where he worked with Rodney Warrington Smyth, they built the 6 and 9 ton Falmouth Pilots. In his later years Percy had his office over a fish and chip shop called "The Big Fry" two good reasons for going to see him. In his youth he had sailed with the great Bobby Somerset on Jolie Brise.
Heptarchy can still be seen around. Gweek is a centre for wooden boat building and restoration, Luke Powell and David Walkey being great craftsmen.As well as Kindly Light, now on her mooring in Falmouth,David has restored other cutters and various yachts including the S&S yawl Cometa that Ed also worked on,Olin came over for the re launch.
Luke is well known for his West country type Pilot cutters which he builds on spec but always sells.He has a book coming out in The Autumn that should be interesting.Finally to add to the old boat scene here, Temptress Edward Allcard's old yawl is moored in the Harbour. Im now off for a sail.

[Phil Y]

I don't recall ever seeing photographs of Dyarchy's interior, but I never saw those early (rare here) Hiscock books. I've studied the drawings in Taylor's Good Boats, and the Giles book among other places. I was always impressed the boat has no dedicated head, just a toilet under a bench in the foc'sl. Unusual!

Hey, that's exactly what my boat has! Is that so unusual? I don't have any pics of it. The focsle is separated from the main cabin by a bulkhead with a door in it. Loo is dead centre, aft of the sampson post. There is a washbasin on the stb side. Sail shelf to port. Anchor chain falls for'd of the loo. A locker for spare anchor chain, snubber, odds and sods, to stbd, forward of the washbasin. A couple of hooks for stowage of the boathook, deck scrubber etc, up high under the deck.

[TR]

potterer.....

Yes, the games of "What if?", "How come?", and "Maybe?", are endlessly fascinating......

[TR]

I just checked and the Heptarchy drawing above did indeed appear in Classic Boat #110 (August 1997), in an article called Percy Dalton's working boats written by John Leather. In the text Leather mentions the "49' (15m) gaff-rigged cruising yawl", "Rushworth Lund named her Heptarchy - also a reference to her proportions." She was designed in 1976 and completed in 1979. Dalton was killed at Christmas 1982 in a gas explosion at his home, apparently a leak from a portable "gas fire".....heater in this country I think.

[Mad Scientist]

I'm puzzled. (Nothing new there.)
The caption to Heptarchy talks about a 'rule of seven', about which I'd never heard.

So I downloaded and printed the lines plan shown in TR's post, reposted by Hwyl.
Her beam at St13 is said to be 14' (168"), or 50mm on my printout: a factor of 3.36.
The draught is said to be 7' (84"), or 25mm on my printout: a factor of 3.36.
Her length is said to be 49' (588"), but on my printout the LOD (AP to FP) is 187mm: a factor of 3.14...

Draught is 7'; beam and length are multiples of 7. Perhaps that's the mysterious 'rule of sevens'?

Tom

[purri]

I believe that it derives from the "rule of threes", in short a mathematical corruption of the Greek "entasis" a figure that can be something between 3.33 and 3.68.