The Private Sector Is Doing Fine

[David W Pratt]

Did anyone else hear Obama say that in his address today?
Does anyone believe it?

[switters]

The spin on this gaffe should be pretty amazing to watch.

[wardd]

how is wall street and the banks doing?

[switters]

better than they were four years ago, how about you?

Me, I,m just happy to be working at this point,

[MiddleAgesMan]

Compared to state and local government workers the private sector is doing swimmingly.

If you watched that speech you would know that's what he was saying.

So, why is the public sector doing so poorly?

Here's a hint--Tea Party.

[crawdaddyjim50]

Compared to state and local government workers the private sector is doing swimmingly.

If you watched that speech you would know that's what he was saying.

So, why is the public sector doing so poorly?

Here's a hint--Tea Party.

You say that, like it is a bad thing...

[McMike]

You say that, like it is a bad thing...

“Property is the fruit of labor…property is desirable…is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another; but let him labor diligently and build one for himself, thus by example assuring that his own shall be safe from violence when built.” Abraham Lincoln

In response to your tag line; I doubt most wealthy folks have any concept of what real work is. I know many people in the construction industry who work endlessly and to great productivity who, in their lifetime, will make a fraction of what some Wall St putz or some manicured CEO makes in just one year. I guarantee you; if it were the working class who made the rules as the top 1% does now, this country would be a operating under a much healthier economy . . . all that money might actually be circulating instead of collecting interest in Switzerland.

[crawdaddyjim50]

In response to your tag line; I doubt most wealthy folks have any concept of what real work is. I know many people in the construction industry who work endlessly and to great productivity who, in their lifetime, will make a fraction of what some Wall St putz or some manicured CEO makes in just one year. I guarantee you; if it were the working class who made the rules as the top 1% does now, this country would be a operating under a much healthier economy . . . all that money might actually be circulating instead of collecting interest in Switzerland.

What? You don't like Lincoln? You know many people in the construction industry. So what. I know many people in the construction industry (I work in it myself) too. The working class do make the rules in this country Mike. They elect those who make the rules. This country was founded upon the principle of personal property rights. It is enumerated in the Constitution even. Of course our problem arise from lawless oligarchs as they do in the former Soviet Union and in the EU. How about we elect some folks who will enforce the laws already on the books? Wait we can't do that because the people would rather watch TV than pay attention to what really has a effect upon their daily lives. You know local govt and the education of their children so they can make informed decisions. Too busy to accept responsibility for their own situation and try to improve it. No, they would rather whine and cry about some guy who worked his ass off building his business and making sacrifices of time and effort. The same guy who would rather expand his business and hire more people so that they could learn from his success all the while making a living. I make a good living in the construction business. I don't begrudge the man I work for his wealth, rather I seek to emulate him and in so doing become wealthy and successful myself.

[skuthorp]

There's so much RW propaganda in that piece crawdaddy that it precludes any discussion as a waste of good time.

[Ted Hoppe]

What? You don't like Lincoln? You know many people in the construction industry. So what. I know many people in the construction industry (I work in it myself) too. The working class do make the rules in this country Mike. They elect those who make the rules. This country was founded upon the principle of personal property rights. It is enumerated in the Constitution even. Of course our problem arise from lawless oligarchs as they do in the former Soviet Union and in the EU. How about we elect some folks who will enforce the laws already on the books? Wait we can't do that because the people would rather watch TV than pay attention to what really has a effect upon their daily lives. You know local govt and the education of their children so they can make informed decisions. Too busy to accept responsibility for their own situation and try to improve it. No, they would rather whine and cry about some guy who worked his ass off building his business and making sacrifices of time and effort. The same guy who would rather expand his business and hire more people so that they could learn from his success all the while making a living. I make a good living in the construction business. I don't begrudge the man I work for his wealth, rather I seek to emulate him and in so doing become wealthy and successful myself.

spoken like a true American. If one makes money and has desirable wealth then he is a man of eminence, worthy of praise and rarely within approach. Funny you argued about Lincoln, as he is considered one of the biggest disgorgers of private wealth in American history.

it is true we have many here who rather watch TV or stuck on facebook than work. then again there are many like you who have worked hard building a career and a business. let's take your selected industry and even the state you live in... the recent building boom in Florida was an anomaly based on building homes and selling them to those who could not afford them, often built and sold to many of the illegal immigrants and right to work conditions who provided the muscle to make it happen and was shapporoned in by the Governor Bush, brother of the President. it is the majority of citizens want to look away from a system is always being gamed. the oligarchy exists here, the have sacked the pension plans of the middle class, the have offshored the jobs and industries which makes a vibrant economy and will further continue to consolidate the fruits of national wealth into the equity partners which dominate the political system. Sadly the voters get choices of deciding leadership mediocracy and continued working toward the goals of corporate partnerships with the likes of Goldman Sachs, Koch Brothers and the other top one percent.

[wardd]

spoken like a true American. If one makes money and has desirable wealth then he is a man of eminence, worthy of praise and rarely within approach. Funny you argued about Lincoln, as he is considered one of the biggest disgorgers of private wealth in American history.

it is true we have many here who rather watch TV or stuck on facebook than work. then again there are many like you who have worked hard building a career and a business. let's take your selected industry and even the state you live in... the recent building boom in Florida was an anomaly based on building homes and selling them to those who could not afford them, often built and sold to many of the illegal immigrants and right to work conditions who provided the muscle to make it happen and was shapporoned in by the Governor Bush, brother of the President. it is the majority of citizens want to look away from a system is always being gamed. the oligarchy exists here, the have sacked the pension plans of the middle class, the have offshored the jobs and industries which makes a vibrant economy and will further continue to consolidate the fruits of national wealth into the equity partners which dominate the political system. Sadly the voters get choices of deciding leadership mediocracy and continued working toward the goals of corporate partnerships with the likes of Goldman Sachs, Koch Brothers and the other top one percent.

you will never be invited to a koch party

[Ted Hoppe]

I might be... I'll be the server passing around the sour grape wine and providing the entertainment as one of the last middle class clowns.

[McMike]

What? You don't like Lincoln? You know many people in the construction industry. So what. I know many people in the construction industry (I work in it myself) too. The working class do make the rules in this country Mike. They elect those who make the rules. This country was founded upon the principle of personal property rights. It is enumerated in the Constitution even. Of course our problem arise from lawless oligarchs as they do in the former Soviet Union and in the EU. How about we elect some folks who will enforce the laws already on the books? Wait we can't do that because the people would rather watch TV than pay attention to what really has a effect upon their daily lives. You know local govt and the education of their children so they can make informed decisions. Too busy to accept responsibility for their own situation and try to improve it. No, they would rather whine and cry about some guy who worked his ass off building his business and making sacrifices of time and effort. The same guy who would rather expand his business and hire more people so that they could learn from his success all the while making a living. I make a good living in the construction business. I don't begrudge the man I work for his wealth, rather I seek to emulate him and in so doing become wealthy and successful myself.

I don't begrudge my boss . . . Did I say that I did? See, he started his business, built it, and profited nicely form it, as he should do. He also pays fairly and makes every attempt to retain long term employees. I'm not whining and crying about him.

A question; who selects the panel of folks we get to choose from in the elections? Who do they serve? It seems they don't serve you or me no matter how many votes we cast. The construction industry lost 30% of its jobs since 08; if we shouldn't rely on the government to rekindle the economy then that means we should rely on the wealthy whom have received many tax breaks and enjoyed many tax loopholes, supposedly they were supposed to fuel the economy and create jobs in exchange. Where are the jobs? Where is the quid pro quo? Wasn't that the point of the tax cuts?

When I say wealthy, I don't mean my boss who runs a humble 20 +/- man operation, I mean the much bigger fish, and you know the ones, so no need to be patronizing.



Oh and BTW, I suspect that Lincoln would have something to say about our current state of affairs and I doubt he would use that quote you presented in order to speak to the occasion.

[Donn]

There's so much RW propaganda in that piece crawdaddy that it precludes any discussion as a waste of good time.

I've read your posts for 10+ years, and have never seen the concept of wasting time slow you down.

[Donn]

I guarantee you; if it were the working class who made the rules as the top 1% does now, this country would be a operating under a much healthier economy . . .

I'd like to know how you'd back up that "guarantee."

If the "working class" made the rules, fewer of them would be working than are now.

[wardd]

I'd like to know how you'd back up that "guarantee."

If the "working class" made the rules, fewer of them would be working than are now.

right donn, let the royalty make the rules

[2MeterTroll]

you folks do know that we have an electoral collage and our vote actually means nothing right?

[Keith Wilson]

Lord, is this the best they can come up with? What he actually said:

A reporter asked: "What about the Republicans saying that you're blaming the Europeans for the failure of your own policies?" Obama responded: "The truth of the matter is that, as I said, we've created 4.3 million jobs over the last 27 months -- over 800,000 just this year alone. The private sector is doing fine. Where we're seeing weaknesses in our economy have to do with state and local government, oftentimes cuts initiated by, you know, governors or mayors who are not getting the kind of help that they have in the past from the federal government and who don't have the same kind of flexibility as the federal government in dealing with fewer revenues coming in."

The data (with Bush's first term for comparison):

[skuthorp]

I've read your posts for 10+ years, and have never seen the concept of wasting time slow you down.

I'm flattered that you've taken the time to read them Donn.

[wardd]

I'm flattered that you've taken the time to read them Donn.

taught him everything he knows yet still denies

[hokiefan]

I'm not exactly sure why since I'm not in sales & marketing (thank god!) but we are busier than a one armed paper hanger at work. Have been since early February. We are actively working on improving capacity, we have made significant strides, and we need more. And we don't need it 1-1/2 years from now capital project style, we need it right now, get a better idea, run it faster today now! Tomorrow would be OK if thats the best you can do...

I hope it holds up.

Cheers,

Bobby

[crawdaddyjim50]

you folks do know that we have an electoral collage and our vote actually means nothing right?

Find an election within the last one hundred years that the electoral college (not collage, that is a art) departed from the popular vote for president. And if you had read my post, I was speaking to local and state elections primarily. This is where the citizen needs to be engaged. If that were so then the federal elections would mostly take care of themselves. But hey, sit on your ass and do nothing but complain. It is still a sort of free country.

[David G]

What? You don't like Lincoln? You know many people in the construction industry. So what. I know many people in the construction industry (I work in it myself) too. The working class do make the rules in this country Mike. They elect those who make the rules. This country was founded upon the principle of personal property rights. It is enumerated in the Constitution even. Of course our problem arise from lawless oligarchs as they do in the former Soviet Union and in the EU. How about we elect some folks who will enforce the laws already on the books? Wait we can't do that because the people would rather watch TV than pay attention to what really has a effect upon their daily lives. You know local govt and the education of their children so they can make informed decisions. Too busy to accept responsibility for their own situation and try to improve it. No, they would rather whine and cry about some guy who worked his ass off building his business and making sacrifices of time and effort. The same guy who would rather expand his business and hire more people so that they could learn from his success all the while making a living. I make a good living in the construction business. I don't begrudge the man I work for his wealth, rather I seek to emulate him and in so doing become wealthy and successful myself.

Your blind ignorance is breathtaking.

[johnw]

Find an election within the last one hundred years that the electoral college (not collage, that is a art) departed from the popular vote for president. And if you had read my post, I was speaking to local and state elections primarily. This is where the citizen needs to be engaged. If that were so then the federal elections would mostly take care of themselves. But hey, sit on your ass and do nothing but complain. It is still a sort of free country.

2000.

[johnw]

Shoot, I was hoping this thread would be good news, from the title. It's just more cynical slush.

[skuthorp]

Where's Doug on this, he's a framer and right at the front end of domestic construction. Here housing prices increases are slowing and construction definitely off the boil. But renovation work is booming as people decide to stay where they are. For the future the increasing use of casual labour and labour hire companies will cut many out of the market forever, and must eventually impact on prices and the market.

[ljb5]

2000.

I swear: The Republican brain shuts off and resets every four years.

[David W Pratt]

Kennedy was a minority President
Informally, and non-scientifically, it seems like "help wanted signs are increasing but aren't there something like 13mm people out of work? That can't all be public sector can it?

[2MeterTroll]

Jim I like you man.
that question umm can be answered several times in the last 30 years alone. I can bet the EC didnt vote the popular well before that.
the EC is an outdated mechanism that bars the popular vote from having any real value, not to mention that one has to wonder who elects the EC?
I dont recall electing anyone to the EC so folks must be appointed HMMMMM.

Find an election within the last one hundred years that the electoral college (not collage, that is a art) departed from the popular vote for president. And if you had read my post, I was speaking to local and state elections primarily. This is where the citizen needs to be engaged. If that were so then the federal elections would mostly take care of themselves. But hey, sit on your ass and do nothing but complain. It is still a sort of free country.

[John Smith]

What? You don't like Lincoln? You know many people in the construction industry. So what. I know many people in the construction industry (I work in it myself) too. The working class do make the rules in this country Mike. They elect those who make the rules. This country was founded upon the principle of personal property rights. It is enumerated in the Constitution even. Of course our problem arise from lawless oligarchs as they do in the former Soviet Union and in the EU. How about we elect some folks who will enforce the laws already on the books? Wait we can't do that because the people would rather watch TV than pay attention to what really has a effect upon their daily lives. You know local govt and the education of their children so they can make informed decisions. Too busy to accept responsibility for their own situation and try to improve it. No, they would rather whine and cry about some guy who worked his ass off building his business and making sacrifices of time and effort. The same guy who would rather expand his business and hire more people so that they could learn from his success all the while making a living. I make a good living in the construction business. I don't begrudge the man I work for his wealth, rather I seek to emulate him and in so doing become wealthy and successful myself.

This issue is a perfect example of why this nation is doomed. I listened to Obama's speech in its entirety. He said contruction jobs were lagging. The larger point he was making was that layed off government workers cut the demand for products/services of the private sector, so, in boating terms, job creation in the private industry is bucking the tide.

It appears to me that the conservatives don't consider public employees as workers: their jobs don't count.

More importantly they have to twist and/or take out of context the words of the president to change their meaning. I'm on record as regarding doing so as fraud. Everyone else consideres it free speech.

You cannot consider this free speech and complain about it. The money spent spreading fraudulent information is very likely going to get Romney elected.

Long before I found the bilge I've made the argument that the people who provide us information should have some legal requirement to be honest in doing so. Taking words out of context (which they did with Reverand Wright) is an easy way to distort the truth into a lie. Recently this was done with Romney's first ad, which is still running, where Obama quotes McCain, but the ad simply quotes Obama as if he said those words.

Having the right to know the truth is meaningless unless those providing information have an obligation to tell the truth. A misinformed voter is a dangerous thing, and when I bring this up I get little or no support.

I get asked who determines the facts. I'll give my state as an example. We have these very powerful ads on praising our governor for balancing the budget. Of course, our state laws require a balanced budget. Also, according to our newspaper, our budget is not balanced. Paper goes into the shortfalls.

A lot more people see the ad than read the paper.

[John Smith]

Lord, is this the best they can come up with? What he actually said:




The data (with Bush's first term for comparison):

I think we make this all too complicated for the average guy. I think Obama thinks in overly complex terms.

We have a lot of conservatives who believe cutting taxes for the wealthy brings jobs and raising taxes on the wealthy loses jobs. Clinton and Bush proved them wrong.

[McMike]

I'd like to know how you'd back up that "guarantee."

If the "working class" made the rules, fewer of them would be working than are now.

Why? You afraid to try?

I have no love for freeloaders and if it were up to me those rules would be different as well. In my ideal system the elderly, sick, and children would be paid for by the government with the greatest care and compassion possible, as for the others, if there are jobs out there and they simply choose not to work . . . they can rot in the gutters for all I care . . . although I do believe in employment programs and funding adult education for those who show motivation. Although I suspect that if wages were brought back into a more proportional and realistic ratio between the top 5% and the working class more people would be inclined to work, as it stands now a "decent" $15/hour job will barely cover the necessities with no health insurance. If a company is making astronomical profits there should be no employee who works full time and is in good standing that makes less than $25/hour.

Oh and let's talk about wage equality amongst the lower 95%. The idea that women still make, on average, 30% less than their peers is on the scale of ridiculousness. We're talking about parallel positions here, the excuse that the upper crust gives is that it would be hobbling if they were to try to fix this . . . . I laugh at the absurdity as I have seen and done work for many of their homes. Believe me; they have no idea how to spend all that money. Can you imagine the spending power and the wealth created in harnessing that spending power?!!!!

A little math: There are approximately 150 million women in the USA. Last I heard 60% of them work outside of the home, that's 90 million women. The median pay for women in the USA is $36,931 per year. If women got the 30% raise they are entitled to that would mean $11,079 extra per year, per woman. That's $997 BILLION per year more that would flow into the economy making those fat cats fatter!!! Think of it, a win-win . . . oh wait . . . that would be the right thing to do, can't have that now can we . . .

[2MeterTroll]

Mike where do you see folks who choose not to work? I haven't met anyone who didnt want to work in one way or another. In our case we have started a business; for years we have lived with "why dont you get a real job" so what do you consider a job and a refusal to work?

Why? You afraid to try?

I have no love for freeloaders and if it were up to me those rules would be different as well. In my ideal system the elderly, sick, and children would be paid for by the government with the greatest care and compassion possible, as for the others, if there are jobs out there and they simply choose not to work . . . they can rot in the gutters for all I care . . . although I do believe in employment programs and funding adult education for those who show motivation. Although I suspect that if wages were brought back into a more proportional and realistic ratio between the top 5% and the working class more people would be inclined to work, as it stands now a "decent" $15/hour job will barely cover the necessities with no health insurance. If a company is making astronomical profits there should be no employee who works full time and is in good standing that makes less than $25/hour.

Oh and let's talk about wage equality amongst the lower 95%. The idea that women still make, on average, 30% less than their peers is on the scale of ridiculousness. We're talking about parallel positions here, the excuse that the upper crust gives is that it would be hobbling if they were to try to fix this . . . . I laugh at the absurdity as I have seen and done work for many of their homes. Believe me; they have no idea how to spend all that money. Can you imagine the spending power and the wealth created in harnessing that spending power?!!!!

A little math: There are approximately 150 million women in the USA. Last I heard 60% of them work outside of the home, that's 90 million women. The median pay for women in the USA is $36,931 per year. If women got the 30% raise they are entitled to that would mean $11,079 extra per year, per woman. That's $997 BILLION per year more that would flow into the economy making those fat cats fatter!!! Think of it, a win-win . . . oh wait . . . that would be the right thing to do, can't have that now can we . . .

[John Smith]

Remember Reagan: people chose to be homeless?

[2MeterTroll]

Some Vets do. that is more a function of PTSD than anything. most will work if the chance comes up. they just cant handle the pressure and claustrophobia.

Remember Reagan: people chose to be homeless?

[McMike]

Mike where do you see folks who choose not to work? I haven't met anyone who didnt want to work in one way or another. In our case we have started a business; for years we have lived with "why dont you get a real job" so what do you consider a job and a refusal to work?

I've known more than a few who actually choose not to work, but that's not the point of the discussion.

Are you getting up most days of the week and working, making money, paying your own way?? Then you're working, where did I make any statement to single out folks who have their own business? If you are able to work but choose not to work and you rely on others to pay your way through life, you are a deadbeat. This isn't hard stuff to get.

[2MeterTroll]

it is when I've not met ANYONE who wanted to not work or pay there way. somehow i think things must be different in your world; Even in the ghetto folks would rather have some kind of job than no job. that's what the drug sales and such are about.

[John Smith]

Some Vets do. that is more a function of PTSD than anything. most will work if the chance comes up. they just cant handle the pressure and claustrophobia.

Reagan wasn't referring to just some vets.

[John Smith]

http://www.dirtandseeds.com/honestly...s-the-honesty/

[2MeterTroll]

We are talking about a guy who thought that folks chose to be poor as well. Raygun IMO is not a good bench mark.

Reagan wasn't referring to just some vets.