Small-Scale Commercial Fishing Boat

[potomac]

I am exploring the possibility of commercial fishing wherein the model would attempt to downsize all aspects of the operatiopnin a similar fashion to modern small-scale farming. Make everything smaller than in more common commercial fishing: smaller boat, smaller motor, less fuel, less crew, less overhead. The idea would be for one fisherman working inshore in tidal creeks, ponds, and flats with some work along inlets into the ocean where there can be a substantial chop. No actual ocean work. Work over the side would be quite common. The fisherman might be going after clams, oysters, shrimp as well as flounder and redfish. Blue crabs, which are my favorite type of fishing, are a possibility, though a remote one as the only licenses available here in Florida are transferable and cost at least $9,000 when available (and that's rarely). The license, if attainable, represents the only equipment in such a venture that could probably be sold for the original purchase price so it is a consideration, but still represents a significant investment.

I'm thinking dory or skiff, 16'-20'. Extremely shallow draft is important here as there are a number of good flats spots that aren't accessible to other boats, but the boat really does have to float in 12'' of water. The boat should be relatively light and easily trailerable as I think you'd be better off putting in at various locations, fishing a while, then moving on. Propulsion would be small outboard (10-20 hp) with regular rowing or poling if that is more efficient. There are spots where motorless boats have access to some pretty good grounds so rowing is important. Ideally, it would be a boat that could plane and still row well. If a planing hull would be too much of a dog to row, then a displacement type hull would be preferable.

It may be, as with so many small business ideas, that the numbers simply don't work out. I am quite sure I'd be better off trying to charter some tourist fishermen, but that idea is far less appealing.

I'm not looking to design something new. I'm looking for existing, proven design ideas. Thanks- Aaron

[Gib Etheridge]

You've just described the Jon Boat.

http://www.google.ca/search?tbm=isch...w=1024&bih=596

[Northernchinook]

Or how about John Welsford's Trover? originally designed for the fishermen of East Timor she has been stretched by adding an extra frame by some builders

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/trover/index.htm

[David G]

How about a Welsford 'Trover'?

http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/trover/index.htm






OR... a Pacific City Dory?

http://www.glen-l.com/designs/workboat/hunkydory.html

[Breakaway]

Yup. A garvey or a sharpie skiff are the primary conveyance of baymen ( aka, small-scale commercial fisherman).Plenty of stock designs out there. Gardner has plenty, for example.

Kevin

ETA-- That Trover is NICE! But for the kind of work you describe a boat with vertical topsides ( no flare) allows you to stand up right at the side of the boat. Much easier to haul a dredge, pull a rake, etc.

K

[Spokaloo]

Lumberyard Skiff from Old Wharf Dory.

I built mine for $600 in materials, 3 weeks labor, and powered it with a used motor that I'm into for $500. It's been a tank, and gets used for all sorts of work, like this morning we ran 2 hours worth of water samples over 10 miles of lake.



E

[potomac]

Spokaloo- As I was writing this design brief I thought of the Lumberyard Skiff and your experiences with her. My hesitation was that she doesn't look like a rower. 6'6'' beam seems like a beast to row. Have you rowed yours at all? As a straight powered work boat, I can't think of a design that makes much more sense.

[David G]

Brockway Skiff?

[Spokaloo]

I row it constantly.

It gets rowed as a shoreline work boat, and also I use the oars for a trolling motor when I'm trolling for trout or moving the shoreline casting the docks for bass. In fact, a couple weeks ago, I was rowing with 700lbs of human load and she pulls reasonably well.

Trick I've found is to set your oarlocks relatively far forward so that you weight the bow and keep the forefoot wet, while picking up as much weight at the transom as possible. The Sport Skiff with the deeper rocker is the better rower, so build that one. You won't be racing with the rowing shells, but it pulls just fine.

E

[potomac]

Eric (Spokaloo)- do you like not having the side decks? I figured I'd rather not have them if building this boat but wondered about stiffness. I'm also curious about the transom height. You had expressed some concern over that and I wondered if you've had any trouble. You even talked about a well. Did you go that route or is the motor still transom mounted? Wow- lot of questions. I like your boat. Thanks- Aaron

[skaraborgcraft]

I would second the LYS. Never even seen one in the flesh,but from your requirements,i would say she would fit the bill,and the budget perfectly.

[Spokaloo]

I like the openness of the boat, and I'd say she's a good boat with or without the decks. She's stiff enough as-is, though I think I'm going to add another thickness of rubrail eventually. Not because it needs to be stronger per se, but because I am really hard on it and I used Spruce so it is taking a beating. I'll probably add a layer of fir or mahogany, whatever I have laying around.

Transom height is fine, I did the short shaft cutout because it's a lake boat. For bay work, I'd go long shaft or put a well on it. Never shipped much water, but where we crab it might be best to have the protection of a splashwell. Keep in mind that's not well mounting the outboard, just a little addition to the front of the transom so if any water slops in, it drains back out. I'd never consider putting an outboard well in it, it's too small of a boat.

E

[Fritz Koschmann]

Bolger 18' Work Skiff
A big advantage is being able to work and stand right on the outside of the deck reaching straight down over the vertical sides. The design was intended for inshore lobster fishing.

[potomac]

Spokaloo- I know you run your 16' LYS with a 30 HP, would 25 HP be underpowered for this application?

[Spokaloo]

I actually blew up the lower unit on that 30 this winter (it wasn't in deep enough water and night temps were 14F), so I'm now running a 25.

The 25 is a better motor and it can haul 4 200lb adults in the boat without an issue. It planed just fine and didn't lose much top speed.

E

[potomac]

Thanks. My 25 is currently pushing a 14' aluminum hull which probably is fine for pleasure uses, but for commercial uses the LYS seems hard to beat. It sure looks like a big 16' boat. The motor I have now has a 20'' shaft so might work well for a nice high transom. Did you use double sided MDO or single sided? I wonder if there would be a problem using double sided- glue adhesion? Thanks -Aaron

[Paul Pless]

The fisherman might be going after clams, oysters, shrimp as well as flounder and redfish. Blue crabs, which are my favorite type of fishing, are a possibility

The standard small boat for a one small boat commercial fishing operation in your area is the heavily built 20 - 22 foot fiberglass Carolina Skiff with a largish (90 - 115 minimum) Yamaha outboard.

In wood, I'd be looking at a stoutly built plywood garvey type.



Remember the requirement to keep a catch fresh adds a lot of weight to a boat - either live wells or lots of ice. I don't think trying to work towards any type of profit is possible in a boat of 16 feet or less. . .

[potomac]

Well, you are probably right Paul. As I stated above, I'm probably better off trying to ply the tourist trade, or better yet- leaving what I enjoy alone so I continue to enjoy it. I just have felt such a feeling of satisfaction pulling bounty from the sea. Not to over romanticize it, but things like that- farming/ gardening,hunting, fishing for food to provide my family- satisfies something in me on a nearly primal level like nothing I've evr experienced before. I guess making a little living at it appeals to me in the same way, but making the numbers work is really tough. The small farm model of pairing things down to a few acres, and selling at retail gives me hope, but even that starts to circle back around to marketing/ dealing with the public more than the environment, and that interests me less.

[Spokaloo]

I used double sided on the sides and single sided with the wood sides glued together for the transom.

E

[Paul Pless]

I just have felt such a feeling of satisfaction pulling bounty from the sea. Not to over romanticize it, but things like that- farming/ gardening,hunting, fishing for food to provide my family- satisfies something in me on a nearly primal level

I understand this and agree with you completely. I just know, from watching other folks try it, that its super hard work and profitability is touch and go. FWIW, my sister owns an organic farm just outside of Savannah and a home on the Ogeechee where it opens up onto Ossabow Sound. I took a year sabbatical, seven years ago and lived there and worked on her farm a few days a week and spent mornings and evenings on the sound.

[hokiefan]

I understand this and agree with you completely. I just know, from watching other folks try it, that its super hard work and profitability is touch and go. FWIW, my sister owns an organic farm just outside of Savannah and a home on the Ogeechee where it opens up onto Ossabow Sound. I took a year sabbatical, seven years ago and lived there and worked on her farm a few days a week and spent mornings and evenings on the sound.

I have thought off and on that fishing, crabbing, and shrimping the waters around Savannah could be an enjoyable retirement career. One where profitability didn't really matter. I imagine though that I'm more likely to just play around on the water for fun.

Cheers,

Bobby

[Paul Pless]

I have thought off and on the fishing, crabbing, and shrimping the waters around Savannah could be an enjoyable retirement career. One where profitability didn't really matter. I imagine though that I'm more likely to just play around on the water for fun.

Cheers,

Bobby

A lot of small crabbers get by in and around Savannah. Hard to make it shrimping on small scale. Though the Georgia whites are by far the best shrimp I've ever had in my life anywhere.

[pipefitter]

Google up images for 'Lafitte skiff.' I can't think of a better shape for working crab traps and such over the side, and for the environment you just described.
http://www.nicholls.edu/boat/moreLafitteSkiff.html

[spirit]

If you really want to work in shallow draft waters, it might be worth while to consider a jet drive outboard motor. They don't come less than 40HP (e.g. http://www.yamahaoutboards.com/outbo...Drive/overview), but you can go anywhere with confidence in areas where other fishermen will not be so common..

[MiddleAgesMan]

The economy was collapsing when I was starting my Simmons Sea Skiff and I justified the expense and effort by arguing it would be my "survival" fishing boat. We have shrimp and fish out the ying-yang (not that I can seem to catch any) so this was to be a means of survival if things got really bad.

The SSS 18 that I built would fit your criteria, almost to a tee, IMO. I say "almost" because the flare in the sides do not help in lifting traps and such over the sides.

Edit to add--I rigged a system for rowing in an emergency but I've not needed it nor tried it. I use thole pins set into rod holders in the side decks, and the 9 foot oars from my Goat Island Skiff. I believe I would row it while standing and facing forward since the console sits where I would need to be positioned for sit-down rowing in the conventional manner.

[keyhavenpotterer]

Jericho Bay Lobster Skiff

http://www.woodenboat.com/boat-plans...-lobster-skiff

[potomac]

Pipefitter- I haven't seen that Lafitte Skiff before. What a neat looking boat. That's a hull that would certainly stand out from all the Carolina Skiffs around here.

Spirit- Thanks for the jet drive suggestion. The loss of power seems substantial, but not worrying about the prop is certainly nice,

Keyhavenpotterer- Another boat I hadn't seen before. Thanks. Handsome. I'm not sure how I'd feel putting it through the daily rigors and abuse of work.

[keyhavenpotterer]

Joel White drew the original as a proper small working local inshore lobster pot boat. Tom Hill took the basic lines off it and re drew it for strip plank. Think the original was carvel. The original is/ was a workboat, so you'd have every justification not making it 'yachty'.

You couldn't row it easily, but I'd also check out Tom Hill's Long Point Skiff. Its got a thick flat frame-less bottom panel for fishing and low draft. It means its easy to wash out after using it for work as well as walk around in. It was designed as an an inshore shallow water fisher. The best boats are drawn, built and used by the designer for his own purpose. That one's one of them. The thick plywood bottom would take alot of work (ab)use. They're supposed to go well with just 8-15hp.

Also check through Paul Gartside's collection.

UK inshore fisherman seem to be going towards small 6m cats (loads of flat deck space, only need a single small outboard, stable, float off quickly, take the ground easy).

[woodpile]

The designs that comes to mind are not wood but definately have features that could be incorperated into a wood build, probably with a lot of oak. Never seen small work boats that get the crap beat out of them or carry the loads like these do. They appear to be heavy duty aluminum, probably locally made.

http://www.history.com/shows/swamp-people

[Paul Pless]

They appear to be heavy duty aluminum, probably locally made.

Mostly commercially available all welded aluminum jon boats. A few reputable brands would be Express, War Eagle, and Alumacraft/Duracraft. You're right they're very heavy duty boats for their size, almost maintenance free, and relatively easy to repair.

[BrianY]

See FAO Fisheries Technical Paper. No. 134, Rev. 2.

http://www.fao.org/docrep/007/y5649e/y5649e00.htm

[Michael D. Storey]

There is a work boat design from the Chesapeake (many, actually) that I have seen scaled up to about 40 feet and down to about 23. features a long straight keel that allows the boat to track in a straight line, say, from one crab pot to the next, without a hand on the wheel. Tiny little house, in case of foul weather. I have used this design for oysters, perch, cats, crabs and general trouble makin. Judith and I are dancin with the owner of a 25 footer, which we would like as a personal watercraft on the river.
The designs lend themselves to wood, homemade, easily doable with framing experience, to glass and aluminum. I lean toward the wood, but my use is not as commercially oriented as yours.

[potomac]

Michael- Are you talking about the crab scrappers they call Jenkins Creekers or Bar Cats? Maybe a Skipjack?

"Crab scraper float on a heavy dew, it will."

-Aaron

[spirit]

Look at: http://prodriveoutboards.com/
for an ultra-tough outboard motor with a surface-piercing propellor that appears to be capable of driving a very shallow hull through soft mud. Talk about shallow draft!

[Michael D. Storey]

Michael- Are you talking about the crab scrappers they call Jenkins Creekers or Bar Cats? Maybe a Skipjack?

"Crab scraper float on a heavy dew, it will."

-Aaron

Sure. Some are professionally built, others out of pt from lowes. diesels down to engines from an f-150 i reckon that there are at least 40 subtle and not so subtle variations on this theme.