Herreshoff H-28

[CJM]

Short term mooring might be at Elm Point but I don't know the regulations. You can check with the historic society who I think manages the grounds. You have good weather protection but would use all chain (maybe 5/16) and 30 Lbs plow. The EJ marine might cut you a deal since half the season is over with and I talked to them about the bad image they show with half the slips empty. They did dredge it this spring but more needs to be done and the weeds do turn people away. The other option is Ironton and I do like Irish boat shop for winter storage (been there since 1975 and never a complaint) .
Bye for now John

[seo]

It wouldn't hurt to keep spraying the inside of the hull, particularly above the waterline, to get the topsides planking to take up. Once you start sailing, it might be good not to drive her hard to windward for a few days, and to also not go for more than a couple of hours on one tack. When the planking is all "took up" a carvel (or strip plank) hull is quite rigid. Until then, it's a loose bundle of sticks.

[John Bailey]

Just spent two days getting the new spreaders done and on the mast. Everything is ready.

We've hit a bump in the road as we couldn't get the engine to start. The marina's mechanic won't be in till Monday and won't be able to look at it till Tues. So, the process is being delayed a week.

The mast's should be stepped on monday. Hopfully the engine situation will be minor. If so, I'll be going down wednesday and I'll have more pictures.

John

[seo]

If the engine has been out of service for several years, it wouldn't be at all surprising if the gasoline has gone bad. Modern gasoline isn't nearly as stable as the gasoline of thirty years ago. I was amazed a few years ago when I started up an outboard running on gas that had been sitting around since the previous summer. The engine barely coughed and sputtered, but wouldn't pick up and run. I got new gas, and everything was as fine as it's likely to ever e with an old Evinrude.
The amazing part was when I decided to use the old fuel for starting brush pile fires. The old gas would hardly ignite, and burned with almost no energy.
Broken down gasoline can also clog up the jets in the carburetor.
This all assumes that you have spark.
If you have spark at the spark plugs (Take one out, ground the base of the plug to the block, crank engine. Does the spark plug spark?) you might want to test for fuel problems by taking a pump spray bottle like a windex bottle, put some gasoline in it, and (with fire extinguisher ready at hand, and a wet blanket as well) spray some fuel into the carburetor choke while someone else cranks it over. If the engine starts, you might be able to keep it running by squirting in more gasoline. In any event, if it runs like that, but not otherwise, it points to fuel problems.

[John Bailey]

As part of my offer for the boat, the engine had to be in running condition. I did this because I knew it hadn't been running for a few years. In addition I paid to have the engine tuned and a compression check. Everything checked out well and the engine started right up for the mechanic. It surprised me when it didn't start for me. The tank is new and is easily accessible, so shouldn't be hard to deal with.

I'm a little reluctant to deal with this myself because, at this point, it's the marina's responsibility to have the engine up and running. This was their boat and my offer included an engine that ran. They've been great to work with. -- the mechanic especially. As I mentioned before, he's a wooden boat guy with a 1938 William Fife designed cruising sailboat. He's been very helpful.

I just need to be patient, but it's getting harder.

John

[John Bailey]

Just an update -- with pictures!!

It's been another week and still no sailing. The boat is in the water, my son and I have put the sails on and before we started walking around on it, the bilge was bone dry. As it rocked, as expected, water seeped in. The bilge was only running about one time an hour as we worked, so I think everything is OK.

Apparently, someone years ago rebuilt the carb and did it wrong. The mechanic said all the parts were good, but he had to adjust everything. In adition he found a bad hose. Everyone, including the mechanic whom I trust, has guaranteed me it will be working early Monday morning. So, son number one and I will be there bright and early and will be motoring and sailing around Muskegon a few days before we head out into Lake Michigan for the trip north.

Here's a few pictures as the boat sits, with the sails. You'll notice, if you look hard, that the topping lift is too short on both the main and mizzen. We'll be making adjustments as needed next week before we make the trip up north to East Jordan.







John

[Jay Greer]

John,
No criticisim intended, but why does the mizzen look short on both the hoist and outhaul?
Check the drawings, the mizzen sheet is missing one purchase and will be hard to sheet in when it blows up.
Nice though, heck I would forget the engine and go sailing!

Jay

[John Bailey]

John,
No criticisim intended, but why does the mizzen look short on both the hoist and outhaul?
Check the drawings, the mizzen sheet is missing one purchase and will be hard to sheet in when it blows up.
Nice though, heck I would forget the engine and go sailing!

Jay

Believe me, we thought about taking it out. It's inside a small breakwater with a small opening. Outside that is a large mooring field. I just don't have the confidence in my sailing abilities to make that happen. Going out would be easy because we had the wind behind us. Coming back, however, would have taxed my limited skills.

I've been advised that I should motor it for awhile before I put stresses on the rig. We'll probably throw the sail up at least some of the time Monday, but in general we're going to go with two days of motoring and two days of sailing before we head north.

We're still figuring out all the lines and hardware. There are some things missing and we're going to spend the aforementioned four days getting everything sorted out. Any words of wisdom are much appreciated as I only have seven years sailing an Alberg 30 as experience. Getting everything just right will be a chllenge for me.

John

[Larks]

The mizzen does look quit a bit smaller than it should be as Jay suggested John. As it looks almost new I'd be inclined to enquire into who made it and what measurements they used: i.e. the H28 plans or the actual vessel's rig. It's a bit harder to see the main but is that also a bit short on the outhaul? We can't see the top of the mast but how is it for hoist?

Re the topping lifts, sorry if I'm telling you how to suck eggs, but once the sails are hoisted the topping lifts should be taken off completely from the end of the boom anyway and hanked on back to the mast to get them right out of the way so they can't cause any trouble (i.e. not mess with the shape of the sail or chafe the leech edge). I'd say they fall into the category of one of those things that you can leave to replace once you have her home to do things in your own time, certainly not something that'll stop you from going for a sail.

[John Bailey]

The mizzen does look quit a bit smaller than it should be as Jay suggested John. As it looks almost new I'd be inclined to enquire into who made it and what measurements they used: i.e. the H28 plans or the actual vessel's rig. It's a bit harder to see the main but is that also a bit short on the outhaul? We can't see the top of the mast but how is it for hoist?

Re the topping lifts, sorry if I'm telling you how to suck eggs, but once the sails are hoisted the topping lifts should be taken off completely from the end of the boom anyway and hanked on back to the mast to get them right out of the way so they can't cause any trouble (i.e. not mess with the shape of the sail or chafe the leech edge). I'd say they fall into the category of one of those things that you can leave to replace once you have her home to do things in your own time, certainly not something that'll stop you from going for a sail.

Hi Larks,

The main is a bit short, but not as much as the mizzen. The boat is an abandoned boat and there is no documentation and no past owner to talk to, so getting information is hard. You're right, the sails are fairly new and in good shape. I haven't measured the sails and compared them to the plans yet. We just want to get the boat ready for the sail home. It'll be a 5-6 day sail and we'll learn a lot about the boat on the way.

I'll show my ignorance here, but on my other boat the topping mast was adjustable. It was up through the top of the mast and run back down the mast to be tied off. On this boat it is a wire with no adjustments, just connected to the top of the mast. Also, it's a long lean over the transom to reach and disconnect it. We're going to rig something else up seeing as it won't be used while sailing.

Here's another view that shows you the hoist is short on the main also. Looks like the sails may be fairly new, but badly measured.



As far as sucking eggs, I'll suck all I can get as long as I'm learning something. About 15 years ago I decided living on the Great Lakes and not sailing was a bad idea, so I bought an Alberg 30, refitted her and learned by doing. I loved that boat and learned a lot, but I'll never be an "Old Salt." I just started too late in life. I spent 7 years away from sailing because I've been spending most summers in Greece running a sea kayak touring business. So my experience is limited. Now that I'm fully retired, I plan on making up for lost time and a wooden cruising boat is just the ticket.

John

[Thad]

Sounds good to me. With the short sails, hope for more wind/ready reefed. With the topping lift, if you can unshackle the lower end you can use a lanyard/light line to extend the wire so the boom will allow the sail to function properly.

[Larks]

The reach out over the transom may actually be why the topping lift seems a bit short. I wonder if the previous owner just had a strap or something around the boom mid way along that he'd hook the topping lift up to so that it was easily within reach. That would see the boom looking more horizontal.

Remember that it's only there to keep the boom up out of the way when the sails are down so it doesn't matter where it's hanked on, the only thing wrong with it being midway along the boom is the potential for the sail to snag on it as you are raising the sail, but I can't see any harm in even unhanking it before raising the mizzen sail and letting the boom sit down on the pushpit while you raise sail.

You could still then hank it on before lowering the sail when it's unlikely to cause any strife.

But ideally, when you get her home set her up as you are probably used to on the Alberg 30, i.e. replace the fixed topping lifts with spectra (or something) ones that you can control from the base of the mast. Although I don't really favour it myself (though just because it looks a bit messy and can still chafe the leech of the sail), you could then just free off the topping lift on the mizzen once the sail is up so that it flies loose behind the sail while staying hanked on to the boom.

[michigangeorge]

John, seems those sails might have been cut to that size because she was too tender (and in need of extra ballast due to a lighter strip plank hull and heavy teak deck?). Unless you have an all-chain anchor rode which is not yet aboard, she looks to need a bit of ballast forward. I have quite a collection of anchors should you need any for spares. Also, the movable lead ballast from my catboat is laying outside my shop if you wanted to try different trims.
I delivered a Cheoy Lee fiberglass version of the H-28 which was very sensitive to weight/ballast placement according to the experienced owner who had her for twenty years.
I'm liking those red sails though :-)

[John Bailey]

Larks,

The mizzen boom and how it is attached is a minor irritant right now. We'll figure that out in no time. I like the idea of getting the lift out of the way while under sail, so I doubt I'll go the Alberg 30 route.

George,

The trim is a little better than shows in the picture, but it does need some weight up front. I've got 54 ft. of chain. a 25 lb. Manson anchor. an 18 lb. Danforth and 25 gallons of water to go up front before I worry too much about the trim. Also, the gas tank with 12 gallons (tank drained and filled with new gas) and the lone battery are both in the cockpit lockers. While the gas is going to stay aft, I'm planning to move the batteries somewhere midship. There will be a lot of moving weight around before I get things in order. It is a small boat however, so I think it will be sensitive to weight distribution.

Of course when my considerable personal ballast is placed in the cockpit, all bets are off

John

[John Bailey]

Short term mooring might be at Elm Point but I don't know the regulations. You can check with the historic society who I think manages the grounds. You have good weather protection but would use all chain (maybe 5/16) and 30 Lbs plow. The EJ marine might cut you a deal since half the season is over with and I talked to them about the bad image they show with half the slips empty. They did dredge it this spring but more needs to be done and the weeds do turn people away. The other option is Ironton and I do like Irish boat shop for winter storage (been there since 1975 and never a complaint) .

Bye for now John

Thanks for the tips John. I'll be keeping the boat on a mooring at Swan Valley Marina. That's in shouting distance of your boat, so we'll have to do some sailing together. I'm sure I can learn some South Arm sailing tricks from you.

John

[michigangeorge]

You'll have some fun playing with her! By and by - I think I just had a senior moment and confused the H-28 with an Offshore 31 which I don't think was a Herreshoff design - too many boats - too many years! Don't forget to take a small awning or parasol for the trip home - global warming and all that :-)

[John Bailey]

You'll have some fun playing with her! By and by - I think I just had a senior moment and confused the H-28 with an Offshore 31 which I don't think was a Herreshoff design - too many boats - too many years! Don't forget to take a small awning or parasol for the trip home - global warming and all that :-)

If my senior memory serves me right (which it often doesn't) the Choey Lee Offshore 31 is based on the H-28. So it should be very similar. The boat came with a very nice awning and if the weather patterns hold, we'll put it to good use on the sail/motor north.

John

[Jay Greer]

If you have a copy of "Sensible Cruising Designs", take a look at how the topping lifts are rigged. I copied the plans just as LFH drew them. The lifts are set so that the booms are supported when the sails are down. When raised, the tension is off of the lifts. Only on a long sail in light winds when the lifts swing and slap on the leaches do I take them off. There is also a set up that LFH drew on the rigging list that is not very obvious. These are halyard snatch blocks that turn the halyards into a 3 to 1 purchase. The sails are light enough that one man can hoist them with ease. Only for the last foot or so is extra hoisting power needed.
If this looks of interest to you, contact me, privatly, and I will send you a set of the drawings.
Jay