Oughtred - Grey Seal

[andrewpatrol]

So here we are - another new build. I'll spare you the usual slow jokes. I am building this boat away from home and we only go there on average every second weekend = SLOW.
Anyway I started with lofting the frames onto a piece of 25 mm MDF that was laying about. In hindsight it turned out very well 'cos I could screw the laminating blocks to it, lay some clear plastic, then smear the pox on my timber and clamp away


As you can see on the plans only one half of the moulds are drawn so I had to trace the half and rotate the tracing paper about the
centre line to acheive a full frame. I lofted about half the frames then traced them all, repainted the lofting board then did the full thing with both halves. Reason I did this was 'cos the MDF is only 8 x 4 ft so the frames only fitted in this space one at a time.
Now onto the nail trick to get my frames outline imprinted onto some 140 x 19mm pine for the moulds


I did both mould halves at the same time screwed together so that I may some chance of my boat having a port side resembling the s'board side.


At this point you all are probably wondering what I'm building and here it is - an Iain Oughtred "Grey Seal" 22 Ft long and with the new gaff rig that Iain drew for me. Actually involved me remaking a couple of the frames 'cos the mast is moved ( I think aft ) and so Fr 3 and 4 have a new location away from their respective stations which involved a bit of head-scratching figuring a way to loft new frames without doing a complete loft of hull. Hopefully my cheat will work. Time will tell.


I'll finish this post now in case I run over my limit ( is there one ??? )

Andrew

[WX]

The limit is quite generous Andrew. You can post up to 6 images in one post, I learnt that by trial and error.
I will watch this thread with interest as I like the design.
I asked you what you were building in your timber thread so if you read this first then feel free to ignore the question as I know now.
I see you sussed image posting.

[Quest]

Looks good, and we are both starting about the same time and heading for a similar final build length. See you on the water in 2022????

[andrewpatrol]

That soon - I better get a move on

[StevenBauer]

Wee Seal? Original or Mark II?



Steven

[TerryLL]

Don't know if you've investigated the Grey Seal build threads posted by Gert (now sadly passed). If not, here's a link to get you started:

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...rey-Seals-Deck

[andrewpatrol]

Thanks Terry, yes I have all Gerts pics on my computer and I've considered naming my boat after him as a sort of tribute but I don't think my boatbuilding could live up to his fine craftmanship. It looked to be on a similar level to our esteemed Mr Ledger!

[andrewpatrol]

Steven

Grey Seal Steve, 22 ft version of Wee Seal basically
Andrew

[andrewpatrol]

Right now to continue on a bit. Generally the frames are basically the same type of setup, once I'd glued up the lamination ( I found that I needed to reduce the thickness of the layers to get them to bend around the shape and not springback too much, therefore more layers ) and run my old electric plane over them to get rid of squeezeout then through the thicknesser, I mounted them to the moulds with small timber blocks.


Some of the frames will have ply gussets added so I set my router up with a 1/2" slot cutter to make a groove on the inside face before I mounted them. In the above pic you can see the cross spalls to setup the moulds on strongback which are set 36" below DWL ( above if looked at right side up - I know what I mean )
As yet I 'm still making frames because I asked Iain to draw me a rig with a straight gaff. Originally he had drawn it with a curved gaff which is not very convenient when lowering the main because it doesnt lay very well on the boom with the sail. Also he dispensed with the running backstays. With the new centre of effort etc the mast is moved back slightly so I had to make a couple of new frames.
By now I was getting excited about the size and shape of the hull and wanted to get some of the moulds into a 3d aspect. I hit upon the idea of using LVL beams from house construction which worked out cheaper, straighter, stronger, longer than solid timber, for the strongback. I've built the main body of the SB one width and reduced it towards the ends but hopefully still leaving enough space for me to clamber in under the hull for goo dag scraping.


The SB is upside down here showing the under-spalls (?) I didnt add any to the top 'cos I already had some on moulds. I braced the SB with bits of ply and white melamine scraps to hold every thing square.
Next I added a stringline to centre and marked off the locations of the stations. Now for the time to add some moulds !!!!!!
Two mistakes I have made with my moulds are that I didnt offset the centre timber upright strengthening brace to one side of centre to facilitate lining up. The other thing I did was put the spalls on the opposite side of mould to frame which meant I had to pay extra attention to setting up the frames to the correct side of station , instaed of just setting the spall on the station. Oh well next boat - hah.


This is frame 8 and 9 in place, what surprised me at this stage was the short distance left ( frame 9 is last one) before I put the aft stem in place. Grey Seal is canoe stern boat so has two stems. There seems to be an awful turn-in for the planking of hull to go from fr 9 to the stem. Gives her that big solid bum.


No doubt you all can see the alignment error with the keelson notches, yeh new you'd pick it. Somehow in my rush I hadnt been careful enough locating and marking the centre line on some of the moulds and when I looked up and along the keelson it was nowhere near straight. Oh ohh - now I know why every boat shop has a moaning chair, time to make use of same. Get up, move chair to new viewpoint, no good, move again, thinking thinking, tape measure, plans, offsets, straightedge. Finally figured out what to do and moved one frame to port 2.5mm and the next to s'board 5mm, there fixed, Phew that was a close one. Hope fully when I setup next lot of frames I dont have any more of those moments.
So that brings me up to date - see you'se ( strine for yo'all ) in a while.

[TerryLL]

Andrew,

Just a note about your photos. They are a bit small and much of the fine detail is hard to see. I checked the file size on your pics and it looks like you have your file size max. set at 240px. If you increase that to about 700px the photos will be about the right size. (The admin. suggests a max. width of 500px, but most photos posted are in the 6-700px range with no apparent problems.)

[andrewpatrol]

Thanks Terry, maybe its what I have them set on Flickr, I'll see if I can change them even if its only next time though

Andrew

[Quest]

Andrew,
I am starting to think about a strongback and hadn't thought of those LVL instead of wood. Where did you get them and how was the cost comparison with wood?

[andrewpatrol]

Hi Quest ( what's your real name?) I paid about $90 each for them, not sure what pine of an equivalent strength would cost, but I reckon it would have to be more. They are 200 mm size by about 40 thick and 7 metres long, you can get them really long too, as well as bigger sections. The beauty of them is they are strong for their section and just about perfectly straight. They are also really light weight so when it comes time to flip hull they can go over with it. I got them cos originally I was going to build strong back in one length and you can't get timber that long for cheap. You can order them from any timber yard. BTW it was a bit of an experiment the way I built the strong back, but it turned out great I could have turned it by myself (thanks wifey) and its really rigid. I have yet to add more bracing on moulds though. I made it so it's easier to clamber underneath. The moulds provide strength on topside of strong back.

[hokiefan]

You are building a lovely design and it looks great so far. I find the size of your mould lumber interesting (140 x 19mm pine for the moulds). A quick conversion gives me 5.48 inches x 0.748 inches. In another words the nominal 1x6 (3/4 x 5-1/2 inches actual). I would have guessed that your standard dimensions would be more based on metric round numbers, maybe 150 x 20 mm. Constantly surprised by little things in this world.

Carry on with your good work.

Cheers,

Bobby

[BBSebens]

Love the design. Looks lovely.

[andrewpatrol]

Hi Bobby, yeh bit wired with sizes down here, you're right I reckon, probably comes out of the old ( pre metric ) 6x1 rough sawn, then dressing brings it down. Next size up would have been 190 x19, getting a bit too crowded under hull for goop cleaning then.

[Quest]

Andrew,
Mine is going to be 5040mm long and 1000mm wide with four feet each side to get it up 400mm off the floor. That's the main strong back, plus some off the floor in front of that for the first two frames and stem. It is designed for 140mm x 65mm beams, but I'm thinking this may be a better option. As you pointed out, just as strong, definitely straight and light (good for roll over).

I wish I had room to put it up now like you, looks great and can only add to the inspiration.


Mal

[Charles B]

Hi Andrew,
Great pictures. You are truly moving along. I'm glad to see your molds look remarkably like my own. It gives me confidence. Don't worry about the keel notch alignment error. Remember my quote from Bud MacIntosh: "It's not the mistakes you make, but how you back out of them"

By the way, I would kill for a shed like yours.

Charles

[andrewpatrol]

Thanks Charles yes it's good when you find that your kids are the same as all the others isnt it. In a way I find it good to have boo- boos, it gives you time to sit and ponder. I once built a built a boat in cramped conditions, never again I swore.
I will soon have a few more frames to add and it should take some real form.
Andrew

[andrewpatrol]

Got all my moulds setup on strongback with front stem last weekend. I'll need to make some adjustments here and there, like to the bracing for No1 will have to be put on the aft side so that the hull strakes clear when they come around onto stem. Please excuse the pixelation of pics ( major beginner blunder that I dont really understand )


I've started to brace the moulds to strongback and each other all the while leaving access for dag cleaning.

A few more pictures for the p*orn collection we all like
views from aft





And another from fwd. No2 has yet to have its frame assembled and a ply gusset before fitting to mould

[chuckm]

Sorry for
Sorry for the extra large image

[chuckm]

I have poor posting skills , but glad to here and see your progress. That pic was 2 years ago, I'm on deck now, completed cabin, Lead keel in place, slow work with engine (Kabota 13 HP deisel). If you have more info on Ian's new Gaff rig, I like it. The Marconi and previous Gunter rig did not look right to me. Why did he not draw the Gaff mast to be ahead of cabin bulkhead? Would seem to me that a stepped mast like what that frenchman who has similair design's would be more practical. I don't like the tabernackle atop the cabin, it has to be weaker by design, and yes I said this "not as clean a look".

[andrewpatrol]

Hi Chuck, thanks for the picture, looks great. The new gaff rig mast has been moved slightly( fwd I think) and Iain has tried to maintain the cabin length. The mast now sits on fwd end of cabin so the front of cabin house acts like a beam under. Still has compression post. Sail area is about the same. I had to remake frame 3 and alter 4 slightly cos they are now moved back a bit.
andrew

[andrewpatrol]

Bling alert - sunglasses

First photo = traveller horse, gooseneck and tabernacle



Next up are Rudder pintles and gudgeons, forestay fitting, mast band



All from Classic Marine in UK. It is surprisingly heavy and well made, the rudder will never fall off. Reason I got most of it now is so that I can make bits ( mast, boom and rudder ) at home in between boat visits in the country.
Price, well let me just say, wife is not impressed!!
Now I got no excuse, I have a stack of ply, a safe full of bling, a shed full of lead and a strongback. Which way do I turn, guess I have to stop starting so many tasks and settle on just one ( story of my life)

[Sailor]

The standard reference for scale is not a boot but a beer bottle. FYI!

[andrewpatrol]

I was wondering why my beer tasted funny

[Quest]

Andrew,
They all look very nice, I shudder to think about the cost as you mention. What are you plans for the mast and what size is it?? Just trying to keep up with you!

Mal

[andrewpatrol]

Hi Mal the bling was pretty dear and i could have gone with gal steel fittings but................considering the work in it I think its way cheaper than what it would have cost to make in Aus. and they make rudder fittings specially for my boat. My mast is 22 feet ( 6.7 mt) which l plan to make from Oregon ( doug fir ) in a 4.5 inch tapered round section. it is built from two side staves seperated by for and aft spacers all about 1inch thick. dont worry about keeping up, I reckon you should overtake me any time soon given your current pace.

[chuckm]

That traveller.. oh my and the tabernacle. will you go with a newer Gaff rig atop the cabin? Maybe post a drawing for Quest and I. Remember to keep wife happy somhow.

[TerryLL]

Yup, Classic Marine has great hardware. I'll be buying all my gear there as soon as I win the lotto.

[andrewpatrol]

The new sail plan is as per post #1 , straight gaff and leech on the main. The mast is moved a little and two different frames.

[andrewpatrol]

One of the tasks I need to complete before commencing planking is to line-out the frames and that involves making some long battens each of which is the same thickness as ply and same width as the planking lands in this case 1/2 inch by 1 inch wide. I bought some clear pine from that big green shed and ripped it before cutting the 10:1 scarfs on my slide saw


There is a piece of square melamine clamped to bed of saw so I could clamp batten at right angles to fence and therfore achieve a 10:1 angle which isnt possible when using fence.
In this next photo take no notice of the mess unless you can offer to come around and clean it up for me cos I cant be bothered ( told ya Timo ). Anyway somewhere in there you'll notice my clamped up battens (with Polyurethane glue ) using scrap aluminium angles to hold them straight. Unfortunately this shed aint long enough to glue the total length up so I had to take them up country.



On the next available weekend away to the boat shed for more fumbling. I am currently working on drying assembling the stems and keelson so they will align in the correct angles and the right waterlines agree etc. I fitted a ply gusset and connector frame thingy to frame No2 before cutting to fit forward stem.


Said frame mounted on strongback and stem sitting in position



To be cont.....

[andrewpatrol]

Alright now onto the stern area. The aft stem ( is there a better name for this device ) had me repainting and lofting the shape twice when I accidentally rubbed out lines before transferring them to the stem. Woops. Eventually corrected that and now for fitting to Fr9 where I mounted an aluminium straight edge to guide my circular saw to make the cuts in frame.


You can see my transferred waterlines on the stem in this shot, they are on 6 inch centres. While on the subject of marking waterlines etc on to various parts, I've noticed it would be very handy to mark both sides of moulds, stems and frames for any future aligning work. Pity you dont learn this until its too late, it was probably advised in one of the many books I have ..............
Here's a couple views of the stern area. this shot show the correct position of after stem, the keelson comes over from Fr8 ( the one with the pointy mould ) where it sits on a block and then gets faired into the stem. I'm still figuring out how to connect Fr9 to sides of stem. I'll probabaly screw and glue, but where to put the screws out the way of fairing and bevelling is the question?


Heres a close up of joint. I will probably reinforce this area with a gusset as per Fr2 when I get boat right side up but before hand I'll fix me some rebates on inner side faces of frame near stem, to set the gusset into, before I glue it all together.



Heres a view from quarter which reminds me that I still have to apply tape to moulds between frames on last two. Also need some bracing on nine. I'm glad I over-engineered my strongback, it may be dead money as far as directly going into the boat but it means that I can climb all over it with out any fear of any movement. Actually I may need to sabre-saw those uprights holding moulds where planking comes around at stern, just quietly. Please dont tell Mr Ledger. Till next next time........

[PeterSibley]

Andrew, your build frame is so neat and strongly built !.... I'm impressed and a little embarrassed about my somewhat rapidly erected setup !
Watching with interest.

[jim_cricket]

Andrew, awsome project! I'm jealous. I too was happy with Classic Marine. I ordered a lug mast traveler from them, and the service was quick. I know the stuff is pricey, but its beautifully made, and we don't all have foundry equipment in our shops! I'm looking forward to your progress, the framing is absolutely first rate. BTW, where are you? I can't figure it out from your profile.
Looking great,
Cricket

[andrewpatrol]

Hi Jim, thanks for the compliments, I got one of those automatic touch up cameras so y'all can't see my f - ups. I,m in Melbourne Australia

[andrewpatrol]

I am going to start a new thread on this build with a name which is more apt, so I'll see ya there

Andrew

[PeterSibley]

Andrew, you can move this thread to another section of the forum, change the name as you do it then shift it back while keeping everything so far posted . See thread tools at the top of the page.

[andrewpatrol]

Hi there, this is a continuation of the thread entitled "New Build with Pics - Yay". I thought rather than a rush-of-blood name, I'd change to something a bit more understandable.

Anyway last weekend, I've managed to cutout the 3 laminations of keelson and notch the frames for the keelson to sit in evenly and hopefully fair. Each piece is 5/8 by 7 inches so I reckon with the shallow bend required it should be fair. One thing I found was that smearing the glue on such a wide plank, it would have been handy to have a v-groove trowel to make it easier to get an even consistent layer of glue. Just small 1/8" notches would have been enough. I got squeezeout all round so I'm happy. You'll see a couple of snaps of the supervisors too.

[andrewpatrol]

thanks Peter

[andrewpatrol]

OK first pic is the keelson all clamped up and with plastic drip tray under. There are the odd spaces without clamps because i screwed the layers together then moved the clamp to a new spot. Boatbuilders clampitis or lack of. I havent glued keelson to stems/frames yet because I want to remove it and finish sides and
put a roundover on top edge, also still thinking about cutting centreboard slot now

Now you can see why I overengineered my strongback cos with my +100kg self clambering over it I dont want any movement



Corporal Arno having a relax And Sargeant Boris messing with my tape measure

[trango]

Looks great! Is it three layers lamination?

Good idea to remove the keelson for finishing work - I wish I thought about that! I also think is is wise to cut the centreboard slot on the bench and after gluing!

/Fredrik

[andrewpatrol]

Yes just 3 layers Fredrik, makes yours look a little stronger. But I suppose by the time I have the ply on and deadwood for outer keel it'll beef-up a little!

Andrew

[ChrisBen]

Corporal Arno having a relax

I think Corporal Arno's waitin for the muffins from that tin.

[PeterSibley]

Much neater than mine Andrew! Gluing it up then actually remembering to do a round over before leaping on to the next bit ! Very thoughtful!

[donald branscom]

Thanks for sharing your photos.
I know how much work it is to post on this site.

[Vernon]

Looking real good Andrew.
I'm glad Peter's renaming advice worked out and that you were able to keep the thread all in one piece.
Vern

[andrewpatrol]

Thanks Chris Pete Don and Vern, hopefully more production this weekend so I'll be back next week with some more pics. The renaming went smoother than I expected, much like procrastinating about boatbuilding.

[andrewpatrol]

Well after leaving the keelson to cure for a week I took it over to my table for a belt-sand, you can see it doesnt have much of a curve and its pretty light so I could carry it myself.



It has a taper each end, one more so than the other. I put a 1/4 inch round on the top edges and the plotted where to cut the centreboard slot, Drill a hole at each end ( now I'm commited ) And cut between with the circular saw. You might notice that the timber seems to be laminated sideways and you'd be right. The boards took on about a 3/4 inch sideways set so I had to rip them and swap the bits around to get them straight because they were only just wide enough. Those holes are in the middle too, thats just the glue line



The plans call for block to sit between frame 8 and the keelson so I got to try out my new toy, an oscilating spindle sander to make the bottom of block match the curve of frame. I promised her it'd be put to good use and it was worth its weight in gold, couldnt build the boat without it etc. Thats the after stem at bottom of picture



I decided to tape up everything to help stop the dreaded goop from dirtying all the wood before priming and placing a thickened coat of epoxy on the contact areas then lowering the keelson into place. Success now just clamp and wait. I pulled the tape after a few hours so that I could get it off before I had to paint the boat blue as well.

Somethings busted cos I cant post this picture so I'll come back when its fixed and post some more boat-porn

[Peerie Maa]

Do you mean those three pictures of the hog and building frame?