First Time Builder - looking for advise regarding a rowboat / saiboat

[Heber Hobby]

Hello - other than building a dog house and a cedar shed I have little handyman experience. I am however, eager to begin building a boat. After countless hours of searching - I have concluded that for every couple positive attributes that a boat offers there seems to be a negative one hiding somewhere. So any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Attributes that I am looking for: a row boat first - sailboat second, easy to build, car toppable.


Uses - capable of carrying me, my wife and 100 pounds of dogs (3) and supplies for a 4 night camping trip on a large lake. For outdoor rowing exercise - by myself or with a buddy. For fishing.


I have no sailing experience but love the water. For years my wife and I have gone out in a 17' 6" Clipper Tripper canoe. But we have been caught in rough water too many times - with too many close calls. I am 6'3" 290 lbs; my wife is 5'5" 120lbs. I like the 16ft Otter from Bateau boats but at this point am very open for suggestions. I realize that I may be asking for too much - so the first thing that I would compromise on would be the car toppable part. I will have to figure out how to get it into into the water anyways.

Thank you for your time and expertise.

[Peerie Maa]

For a safe boat that is easy to row, look at one of the Norse/Shetland derivatives. The other easy to build skiffs with flat bottoms are capacious but have too much wetted surface for easy rowing.
Look in here: http://www.woodenboat.com/boat-plans...y_value=rowing

[Rik van der Vaart]

Hi Heber,

Welcome to the forum. This is the place for answers to your questions. Be prepared that you will get a lot of feedback which may defer any decision on your part. Maybe quick answers, but long pondering may be the result of your question. But it's all good for the process.

Boatbuilding can be done easy or hard, small or large, motor or sail or row. To start building a boat is one thing. To own a boat to find adventure safely is a different manner. Building a boat requires time, patience and some skill. The choice which to build is pretty definite. To find the right design I suggest to boat around more. Try out different designs first, sail, motor and row. That will narrow down your options. There are very simple designs which will give all options of course, like a flat bottom skiff. But any sailboat will complicate matters for a builder. With the load you describe you will need a pretty good sail surface with subsequent rigging. Canoes may be cartoppable. Nothing else is really. But it sounds like you understand this already.

My humble suggestion is to look for a design of and make a simple 12 foot skiff, which should be able to carry your load safely, add a small 5hp outboard, trailer, painted not epoxied outsides. This should get you to the water quickly and with good building lessons to learn. A good general boat with simple building methods. Have fun.

[potomac]

510 lbs. before a single piece of gear, rigging, etc.. is quite a lot- especially in a car-topper. Is car topping absolutely necessarry? A trailer brings a whole world of possibilities with it. Car-topping means different things to different people. There are lots of possibilities. Without car-topping- the Goat Island Skiff, The Acorn 15 by Iain Oughtred, a double ender by Iain Oughtred, any of a dozen different designs by Ross Lillistone, John Welsford, Arch Davis to name a few. With car-topping a requirement, I'd say you are looking at a true ultralight design- maybe skin on frame or glued lapstrake, but you are at the edge of the envelope given the load you want to carry. I mentioned it recently in another thread, but it bears mentioning here, CLC's Northeaster Dory.

http://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/r...iling-kit.html

[kenjamin]

As many times as I've recommended this boat, you'd think that Ross Lillistone was my cousin or something but his Flint design sounds pretty much like what you're looking for. It's a good rower with a sail option, simple stitch and glue construction, at 110 lbs. (rowing version) kind of heavy for car-toppable but not out of the question. It's very easy to right if you manage to capsize it and it has flotation compartments under all the seats making it unsinkable. The picture of it with four adults always cracks a smile across my face as they all look like their all having fun with the little boat.

http://www.baysidewoodenboats.com.au/

[potomac]

I think Ross Lillistone deserves more attention. He's got some very nice designs- not the least of which is Flint.

[Heber Hobby]

Thanks Nick -

[Heber Hobby]

Rick - thank you for the welcome. i had not considered such a small craft but will take a look.

[JimD]

I know, I know, you said row. But are you sure you like rowing? I hate facing backwards, personally. And you already know paddling so have you considered an outrigger? Stable, paddles well, sails well. Lots of options for the home builder. I just grabbed these photos quickly off google for inspiration.

[James Corduan]

You beat me to it JimD, I was going to suggest the same book.

[Heber Hobby]

All this boat candy mmmmmmmmm - it's like being a kid again. Very good suggestions - the Flint and the Northeastern Dory look particularly appropriate and never in a life time would I have looked at an outrigger but they're pretty cool.

[James McMullen]

Alas, I have to say that "cartopper" is really kind of a killer for the load you are wanting to carry. You have already said that you are looking for something bigger than your Clipper canoe. . . .I really think you ought to research what it would take to get a light trailer hitch for your car, because it will open up a world of possibilities that are otherwise not practical.

Cartopping a great big boat isn't pleasant or easy, and if it's not quick to launch and retrieve, the boat's going to sit in your backyard instead of getting used as much as it should.

[JimD]

... never in a life time would I have looked at an outrigger but they're pretty cool.

Still have the Clipper? Build an outrigger for it and lash it on. Boat building can be very time consuming and adding to the boat you already have can save lots of it. You can put a sail on it too. There are many very successful sailing canoes.

[Heber Hobby]

After too much time spent on dreaming of the many boats that one can build. I had myself convinced at one time that I could build a >2o ft catamaran. I have decided to build the Oarling from Sam Devlin. Looks like it is at my skill level and something that I can complete in this lifetime. I can use a bunch of lumber that I took from our office prior to renovations. I can actually see if I like rowing "backwards" and will give me basic experience for a more complex build down the road. I also like the idea of adding an outrigger for our clipper. Thanks everyone for all of your suggestions. I will keep you posted on my Oarling Office Dory.

[StevnDee]

510 lbs. Before a single piece of gear, rigging, etc.. Is quite a lot- especially in a car-topper. Is car topping absolutely necessarry? A trailer brings a whole world of possibilities with it. Car-topping means different things to different people. There are lots of possibilities. Without car-topping- the goat island skiff, the acorn 15 by iain oughtred, a double ender by iain oughtred, any of a dozen different designs by ross lillistone, john welsford, arch davis to name a few. With car-topping a requirement, i'd say you are looking at a true ultralight design- maybe skin on frame or glued lapstrake, but you are at the edge of the envelope given the load you want to carry. I mentioned it recently in another thread, but it bears mentioning here, clc's northeaster dory.

http://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/r...iling-kit.html

must use caps lost my glasses, sorry
skin on frame for a guy weighing close to 3 bills? Dont think so
ian outred designs are gourgeous and it would definately carry the weight, but on a trailer and is a complex boat for a beginner,6 planks per side. Your packing close to 800 lbs with gear, add in a safety factor of 30% and youre at a grand, anything heavy will be safer but harder to row
i would suggest a single sheet sided 16 skiff that will take a 5 or 6 horse
bluegill by redmond, nice boat, plans are very basic, all plywood
san juan dory is also a good one
STICK TO A SIMPLE FLAT BOTTOM FOR YOUR FIRST, 100 HOURS AND YOURE IN THE WATER

[StevnDee]

still have the clipper? Build an outrigger for it and lash it on. Boat building can be very time consuming and adding to the boat you already have can save lots of it. You can put a sail on it too. There are many very successful sailing canoes.

i have a set of plans to a sailrig that fits a 17 canoe or kayak. I got them at clc
if you can handle epoxy and laminating, might be fun

[JimD]

After too much time spent on dreaming of the many boats that one can build. I had myself convinced at one time that I could build a >2o ft catamaran. I have decided to build the Oarling from Sam Devlin. Looks like it is at my skill level and something that I can complete in this lifetime. I can use a bunch of lumber that I took from our office prior to renovations. I can actually see if I like rowing "backwards" and will give me basic experience for a more complex build down the road. I also like the idea of adding an outrigger for our clipper. Thanks everyone for all of your suggestions. I will keep you posted on my Oarling Office Dory.

As you know, the dory hull form will be a good load carrier but with 500+ pounds of crew and dogs plus gear for 4 days I think you'd be much better off with the the bigger Fairhaven Flyer. Looks like sailing is a very distant secondary consideration. Not that there's anything wrong with that

[Heber Hobby]

Thanks JimD -I just want to get building and the Oarling will provide me with a boat that I can gain experience with. I will gain the pertinant skills to tackle a bigger more complex boat that we will use on our 4 day long expeditions. I looked at having a Northeastern Dory kit shipped up here to the interior of British Columbia and it was over $500.00. If I like rowing then I'l move ahead with the Northeastern albeit not from a kit. If I don't like rowing then I'll build the outrigger and we can take out our trustee Clipper. Who knows - I am not handy, so I might not even like building a boat. I highly doubt it but I'm just trying to be pragmatic about this whole thing. I really appreciate the suggestion though.

[JimD]

Thanks JimD -I just want to get building and the Oarling will provide me with a boat that I can gain experience with. I will gain the pertinant skills to tackle a bigger more complex boat that we will use on our 4 day long expeditions. I looked at having a Northeastern Dory kit shipped up here to the interior of British Columbia and it was over $500.00. If I like rowing then I'l move ahead with the Northeastern albeit not from a kit. If I don't like rowing then I'll build the outrigger and we can take out our trustee Clipper. Who knows - I am not handy, so I might not even like building a boat. I highly doubt it but I'm just trying to be pragmatic about this whole thing. I really appreciate the suggestion though.

Once you get the Oarling built and you want to try your luck with an outrigger you might want to fit the outrigger for the dory, and leave your canoe for canoeing.