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Thread: Gypsy restoration and legal battle

  1. #1
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    Default Gypsy restoration and legal battle

    As I posted in a previous thread under the title with one misspelled word - Gypsy will love again, work is definitely under way to restore the lovely classic that was run down and sunk during the Auckland Anniversary Day regatta. In a few days the website www.gypsy.org.nz will have photos showing the progress which at this time is mostly deconstruction. I was asked what the legal status is regarding the collision that not only sank Gypsy but almost killed one of her crew -Jill Hetherington who suffered near-drowning and a broken pelvis. A quick review: Gypsy was under full sail on starboard tack just after the start of one of the biggest regattas of the year in Auckland harbor. Over 10,000 boats were reported to be on the water in and around the harbor. Winds light, water choppy, sunny and clear. A 65 foot sailboat - Anteaus, with owner and lady friend on board were heading into the harbor and towards the marina under power. It is reported the vessel was moving at 8-10 knots though the owner says it was 6 knots. He hit Gypsy amidships with enough force to sink her immediately. His claim, "I just didn't see her."

    In the aftermath, Maritime New Zealand decided not to investigate the collision instead suggesting it be handled by the Port Authorities. The Auckland Port Authorities found the owner of Anteaus had not obvserved the rules and imposed their maximum fine of $200. Many in the marine industry, especially professionally licensed charter boat operators and other yachtsmen were angered that no formal investigation was done by the Maritime authorites. After further consideration, the Maritime New Zealand opened an investigation. This authority can impose large fines and or jail sentences. Their final report has not yet been issued.

    Fortunately NZ has something called the accident compensation act, plus public health coverage. So Jill was given excellent care and ongoing therapy. She is about 85 percent recovered. John Pryor (Gypsy's owner) had insured Gypsy and his insurance company agreed to pay out for the actual coverage which is only about 20- 25 percent of the cost of restoring this truly classic yacht. The insurers will, without further action only pay out what it would cost to purchase a similar boat, not what it costs to restore Gypsy which has been estimated at $250,000 to 300,000 including deconstruction, storage etc.In order to recover more than this cost, John would have to go up against Anteaus insurers. He has requested they come to the party and the state of the play as of yesterday when we shared dinner with John is, Anteaus insurers have replied, "We will await the outcome of Maritime New Zealands investigation before proceeding further."

    So we all wait for a government department to move along -

    Meanwhile as mentioned in the other post, many have offered to help get Gypsy back afloat including providing labor or materials. John has been working almost full time on her along with Robert Brookes a well known boatbuilder. I'll try to post a few photos later this week after Larry and I go over to the mainland and see Gypsy in her new home.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Gypsy restoration and legal battle

    Tell John to keep all receipts, and time records. And hope MNZ makes an appropriate finding and that the other party's insurer then falls into line. Might still be a battle to claim the restoration cost rather than market value though. The owners should not assume any better than market value. Does NZ's accident compensation act allow separate actions for damages for personal injury? I suspect not. But I don't know.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Gypsy restoration and legal battle

    Seems to me a proper settlement in such situations would be swapping boats. Gypsy's owner gets the 65 footer that sunk his and the other owner gets the Gypsy, as is where is.

    Of course, if the other craft is without provenance the Gypsy's owner would likely refuse such a deal.
    Goat Island Skiff and Simmons Sea Skiff construction photos here:

    http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/w...esMan/?start=0

    and here:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/37973275@N03/

    "All kings are not the same."

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Gypsy restoration and legal battle

    Hire a competent New Zealand lawyer with experience in maritime law and let them deal with it. The internet is no place to go looking for free legal advice. Pay the damn attorney. If the story is as you describe, you should secure just compensation. You wouldn't try to take out your own appendix, would you?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Gypsy restoration and legal battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Cleek View Post
    Hire a competent New Zealand lawyer with experience in maritime law and let them deal with it. The internet is no place to go looking for free legal advice. Pay the damn attorney. If the story is as you describe, you should secure just compensation. You wouldn't try to take out your own appendix, would you?
    The best maritime legal brains in NZ are on the case.
    "Old boats are like teenage girlfriends: there is a certain urgency to their needs & one neglects them at one's peril"


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Gypsy restoration and legal battle

    Gypsy moved to new 'home' closer to owner

    ;
    ;

    The process starts

    ;
    ;
    ;
    ;
    "Old boats are like teenage girlfriends: there is a certain urgency to their needs & one neglects them at one's peril"


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Gypsy restoration and legal battle

    ;
    ;
    "Old boats are like teenage girlfriends: there is a certain urgency to their needs & one neglects them at one's peril"


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Gypsy restoration and legal battle

    Ouch!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Gypsy restoration and legal battle

    Oh, that's heart-breaking.
    Visit us to see how we help people complete classic boats authentically.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Gypsy restoration and legal battle

    Thank you, Lin and Alan. Best wishes to GYPSY and her crew!!

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Gypsy restoration and legal battle

    A chap could fix that for ten or twenty grand, OR take a picture of it , get her lines and build a NEW one for a hundred grand. Or do both.
    But this costs three hundred thousand to repair.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Gypsy restoration and legal battle

    ^ You are joking no doubt.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Gypsy restoration and legal battle

    a little drunk on a sat nite maybe, but no.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Gypsy restoration and legal battle

    Quote Originally Posted by snow(Alan H) View Post
    The best maritime legal brains in NZ are on the case.
    Great news! And most reassuring. I got the mistaken impression from Lin's post that the owners were sort of adrift, hoping the authorities would do something to ensure a just outcome, while the insurance companies were stringing them along.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Gypsy restoration and legal battle

    Good Luck !
    Perfect is the enemy of good.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Gypsy restoration and legal battle

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    A chap could fix that for ten or twenty grand, OR take a picture of it , get her lines and build a NEW one for a hundred grand. Or do both.
    But this costs three hundred thousand to repair.
    Bruce, you're so far off-beam on this one it's just not funny.

    1. You're dealing with an historic vessel: The last from the hand of Arch Logan, so it has incredibly great historical significance and needs to be treated with extreme care about how the rebuild is undertaken. This boat is the equivalent of a listed building in NZ.

    2. You're using NZ Kauri for the skin, which is very rare and very expensive. It has great mechanical properties and is about as rot resistant a timber as you'll find anywhere on the planet.

    3. You're dealing with either a double or triple skin Ashcroft system of monocoque planking that the Logan & Bailey yachts represent the apotheosis of. It's not quite as simple as scarf a new piece in, slap some epoxy and paint on and let's go sailing. As well with such major damage, the hull shape needs to be checked and if need be corrected.

    That's just for starters.

    New deck, coach roof, interior, engine, plumbing, electrics and the list goes on and on.
    Ship Happens!
    Saving money today can be very costly tomorrow.
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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Gypsy restoration and legal battle

    And good luck to John and Jill!
    Ship Happens!
    Saving money today can be very costly tomorrow.
    "If anything's worthwhile, it's not going to be given to you on a plate." Alan Bond.
    Johno: Probably the most toxic posts in the history of the Wooden Boat Forum.............

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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Gypsy restoration and legal battle

    Duncan,

    You're dealing with a "knowall, know nothing" thus my lack of reply to a doofus.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Gypsy restoration and legal battle

    Bruce is alright mate! He's just got a different lens on wooden boats. Think Cleek and epoxy... The two just don't go together.
    Ship Happens!
    Saving money today can be very costly tomorrow.
    "If anything's worthwhile, it's not going to be given to you on a plate." Alan Bond.
    Johno: Probably the most toxic posts in the history of the Wooden Boat Forum.............

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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Gypsy restoration and legal battle

    Okay, I am not up to speed on Kauri. I guess it is like Bermuda Cedar, virtually gone/protected.
    I have seen a few superior Kiwi boats cruise through the West Indies over the decades. I know the triple planking bit is better, stronger.
    Come to think of it, when I see brazillions spent on mega yachts that will be melted down in a few years, ( there are no old megas), a few extra zeros tacked on to the back of a national treasure is no big ting.
    All Sobered Up, Bruce

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Gypsy restoration and legal battle

    I offer my sincere sympathies to John and Jill. Her injuries alone are enough to create inner turmoil. This is turmoil that is compounded by the devistating damage to "Gypsy" I wish them all good fortune and a speedy recovery. I would advise, as mentioned by others, that they secure the services of an
    attorney that is fully qualified in maritime law.
    I speak from first hand knowledge because "Red Witch" was once run down in a simular fashion.
    Jay

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Gypsy restoration and legal battle

    John has sought the advise of a maritime lawyer and appropriate letters have been exchanged between lawyer and the people who insure the boat which sank Gypsy. Those insurers will not reply until the Maritime Safety Board issues their report. It is a slow, dreary process. But now that a trust has been set up to restore Gypsy all of us who have been part of her sailing days here in NZ are focusing on the positive aspects of the project. Many have already donated time, materials and advise. Tomorrow Larry and i will take photos of Gypsy and some of the folks who are working on her. You'll be able to see many of them at www.gypsy.org.nz. But I'll also try to put a few up here.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Gypsy restoration and legal battle

    If the boat was to be rebuilt as it was initially built and not just repaired and patched up, anybody interested in the Ashcroft method of boat construction can read his original account of the technique.

    Its called Boat Building Simplified ,Sixth Edition, by Herbert J Ashcroft published (I think) by Capt O M Watts Ltd. It is only 60 pages but it might give a nugget or two for her reconstruction the way it was initially built. Its mostly focused with small boat construction for a beginner using this technique. It says 'boats have been built using the Ashcroft method upto 3 tons' so Gypsy would I assume be one of the biggest in existence at the time of her build. Runs to about 60 pages.

    For the original "luting mixture was boiled linseed oil and white lead kept in an airtight tin mixed until consistency of clotted cream. Adding a small amount of red lead powder or a little varnish immediately before using to help it dry. Over the caulking cotton he says to use 'a stiffish mixture of Stockholm tar and best Kapok. The latter is obtainable from any good class upholsterer."

    My copy is an original but I think it was recently reprinted...

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Boat-Buildin.../dp/1447411889

    Regards

    Edward
    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 05-30-2012 at 02:04 AM.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Gypsy restoration and legal battle

    Edward, (Brian's son/father?) there is a long established tradition of rebuilding/restoring these boats in NZ and Gypsy would be by no means the biggest of them. Most recently Rawhiti has been restored, but several others of similar size to Gypsy, including one belonging our own Steve H, have been restored.

    Here's a couple of threads that may interest you:

    Historic New Zealand Yachting Photographs

    A Question for the Kiwis
    Ship Happens!
    Saving money today can be very costly tomorrow.
    "If anything's worthwhile, it's not going to be given to you on a plate." Alan Bond.
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  25. #25
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    Default Re: Gypsy restoration and legal battle

    The latest issue (June) of New Zealand 'Trade-A-Boat' magazine has a 6 page article on the Gypsy 'affair' . I post it here as very few would be able to pick up a copy.
    Alan
    ;
    ;
    "Old boats are like teenage girlfriends: there is a certain urgency to their needs & one neglects them at one's peril"


  26. #26
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    Default Re: Gypsy restoration and legal battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    Tell John to keep all receipts, and time records. And hope MNZ makes an appropriate finding and that the other party's insurer then falls into line. Might still be a battle to claim the restoration cost rather than market value though. The owners should not assume any better than market value. Does NZ's accident compensation act allow separate actions for damages for personal injury? I suspect not. But I don't know.
    The reason they have ACC is in part to prevent people from suing for damages for personal injury... or so I'm led to believe.

    There is almost no suing culture there.
    R
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