BUSTED un safe uni saw

[wizbang 13]

OK, I 'm a stinking boatbuilder, not a stinking house carpenter.
I picked up a Rockwell 34-450 (uni saw) last year , put up a pic of it and got nailed for no riving knife, not bolted down , no anti kick back stuff.
Thanks, really, I have all my bits, and I wanna keep em.
So, I see too much info on the internet .
Can someone just point a chap to which goodies I can add ?
I have a metal outfeed table now. The saw will live on the ground, no bolting it down. It does not wag around, very heavy, and the aftermarket fence stabilizes it more.

[paulf]

your setup looks a lot like I've seen (sometimes in my own shop).

Everything can't be psrfect always, but when body parts are involved, I try to err on the side of Chicken Sh!&.

[McMike]

Okay, get it off those sh177y wood shims/blocks and pour a concrete pad, or at least set some pavers tight so, god forbid, one of those shims don't vibrate out while your fingers are a half inch away from the blade . . .

After that just be careful. I used a 3 HP saw without a riving knife or anti-kickback for years, just use your head and you'll be fine.

[Art Reinhert]

Get it and the electrical off the moist ground and make sure its under a roof.

[TerryLL]

Hey Wizbang,

When I was building my second boat under a tarp in my backyard in Seattle with nothing but a POS Black and Decker electric drill for power tools, I would have killed for that saw.

[McMike]

Get it and the electrical off the moist ground and make sure its under a roof.

If he's anything like me he has an extension cord that he shares between 4 machines and unplugs when not in use, nothin wrong with that, especially because I use a GFI cord.

[David G]

I agree that the saw needs to be stable. I've seen and used plenty of setups with no boltdown, riving knife, etc. But the saw can't be rocking!

The only other thing I'd do, since you've already added the outfeed table, is to clean and lube everything: all the tables; the fence (both faces); the runners for the fence; the throat plate; miter slots; miter gauge; etc. I use cheap paste wax and buff it back off with a cotton rag. Just make sure you don't leave any gobs anywhere, as it will contaminate the wood and keep finished from adhering.

Then, if you also want to add a riving knife, check the cheap/nifty selection at Lee Valley. Beyond that, I'd clean out all the gears underneath (raising and tilting mechanisms) and grease them lightly with lithium grease.

[SMARTINSEN]

I would start by making the outfeed table long enough to support your stock. If you are making long lightweight strips, you could get away with an outfeed table with some additional extended support, like rollers.

I am not aware that there is an after-market add-on riving knife for the Unisaw. Someone inventive, like Peter Sibley, could make a fortune if he could come up with one. I, at least, would be a customer. *

You have a head start by having a good fence. Keep it in good adjustment, perfectly parallel with the blade, and keep the blade and arbor in likewise in adjustment with the table slots and the trunions.

Make some zero-clearance inserts for the blade. On the Unisaw, they are 1/2" thick.

*Edit to add, after reading DavidG's comment, and checking the Lee Valley website, my comment still stands. There are some gimmicky things, but not a true riving knife, which will rise up and down, and tilt with the blade; it is integral with the arbor.

[paulf]

Hey wisbang!
When I worked at MARCO, stuff like this was everywhere! Things got done.
I'm New to this wood stuff.

[JimConlin]

Don't even think of it as movable.

[Paul Girouard]

Mainly my beef with the setup is no out-feed table and all the $hit out in front of the saw where your out-feed stock goes. I set-up outdoors pretty often and I've done some sawing without the out-feed table where I need to reach over or hold the stock down while I walk around the to hold and pull stock thru the saw. It's not very safe , and a home owner would / could screw it up.

But I really think that is where people get them self's in a bind , generally.

I don't have a riving knife , or a guard on my big saw , but I do have side and outfeed tables , plenty of support for the stock. On the smaller job site saws I can hold on thru a bind or some such. I would use your saw , as set-up for some limited ripping , but for plywood , or long ripping , it would need some work , even if it was two horses and sheet of OSB about 1" longer than the saw table.

I hate the roller stands , I'd pretty much rather do any thing different than use those POS stands. And yes we have the "good" ones Rockler sells. They suck in my opinion.

But that being said if your OK with your saw go for it , they ain't my fingers!! LOL.

[TerryLL]

I recently upgraded to a 3HP Powermatic from a worn out Delta contractors saw. First thing I did was pitch the splitter and all the guards. Keeping my hands away from the blade has always seemed somewhat intuitive, and all that hardware surrounding the danger zone just complicates things. I have a decent 8' outfeed table an an assortment of push sticks, and as of today, all my fingers. OSHA would have a fit, but I have no employees, so OSHA ain't no concern.

[chas]

Looks good to me! I might lead that cord around the other side of the saw, away from underfoot. And I like a switch you can get to with your knee, or your foot. / Jim

[Ian Marchuk]

Paul, that very reach around a spinning and bare arsed table saw blade cost me half of my left thumb. The resultant agony, loss of work and income (in the middle of the 08 financial meltdown) and subsequent loss of confidence , depression and anxiety was really nasty and complex. It took me 3 years to climb out of it.
All it took was a nanosecond of inattentiveness in doing what was simple and repetitive.
I would trade an awful lot of exasperating setup hassles for that 1 1/4 inches of thumb.....
I can only offer 1 1/2 thumbs up these days.
The really fact is that WE know better, even before we suddenly become digitally challenged.

[wizbang 13]

Thanks Ian, It is that sobering thought that this thread is about.

[Bob Adams]

Thanks Ian, stories like yours should be kept in mind any time we work around whirling sharp things. That said, Wiz, it is good I happened upon this thread before you did harm to yourself. As a humanitairian gesture, I am willing to remove that hazardous machine from your danger zone. Send your address and I'll dispatch a truck to pick it up!

[Chip Chester]

I grew up using a saw with no guards, and no switch. Had to go around and unplug the thing to turn it off. It was awhile before it dawned on me that wasn't normal. These days, I put the guards on, but approach the machine like it doesn't have any guards. After a series of lesser saws, including the interesting but ultimately less-than-adequate Ryobi BT3000, I've now got a PM66. It sits and saws. No drama.

Power tool use should hinge on respect, but not fear.

Chip

[Mrleft8]

I've never had a saw with guards or riving knives..... I've used them, but never owned one....
To me, those are extras that are just that. Extra.
The outfeed table and solid footing are much, much more important. I'd also be uncomfortable with the uneven ground in front of the saw.....

[chas]

"I'd also be uncomfortable with the uneven ground in front of the saw....."

I don't like that either. Balance is very important around a saw. This particular problem might be solved with an application of the by-product of it's USE. / Jim

[Lew Barrett]

..........Balance is very important........

A good quote for life (somewhat doctored), stands well with "This too shall pass."

[Nicholas Carey]

2 or 3 of these, make most any table saw (or other tool) easier and safer to use: The Ridgid AC9934 Flip Top Portable Work Support, available at a Big Orange Box near you.

Adjusts from 27 inches to 45 inches in height, so it will work with most any tool, including bandsaws. The flip top means you don't have to match the table heights precisely. If the stock is sagging, it hits the flip top, flips it down and slides across without catching. And since the top is slippery plastic, alignment isn't critical — roller stands thare aren't precisely aligned tend to carry the workpiece in the direction of the roller. $30 each. I rate it at 5 out of 5.

[I'd still want a helper if I was breaking down plywood sheets with a table saw, though]



Here's a review: http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showthread.htm?t=5580

You can pin the top so it's flat, where it works in a conventional manner. This is useful as an infeed support or to support an extra-wide workpiece:



Or you can unpin it so the top is floppy. Usage is simple:



When the workpiece hits the flop top:



It flips up and supports it:

[SamSam]

If you have those roller kind, you can lock the roller so it doesn't roll and wax it so stuff slides over it. That helps.

[Oldad]

I do not like blade guards or riving splitters. I want to see the blade, use push sticks when things are tight to the fence, keep the work area clear of crap and most important, do not let your mind wander. Make the cut, shut it off.

Oldad thinks a sharp blade is a good safety device.

[wizbang 13]

This is how it is rigged now. I ordered a magnetic fingerboard and a mini splitter from Lee. Apparently, no riving knife for the old bomb. I have a 3" wood extension on the switch. Nothing moves and it is all level.
And still, I only rip with it. I can build a boat but not a drawer.

[John Meachen]

Since I jumped on the other thread,I would like to say how pleased I am to see that you take the retention of all your bodily parts seriously.A forum like this is accessed by people of all abilities and while the experienced professionals may be aware of the pitfalls,the novice homebuilders are less likely to understand the risks.It never fails to both amaze and depress me that a nation that put a man on the moon seems unable to accept a standard of safety that has been mandatory here for forty years or so and buld machines accordingly,but this may relate to our lack of enthusiasm for patching up mangled bodies at public expense.I remain willing to be persuaded that there is merit in the notion of "thats how we have always done it" being better than "lets work to the highest achievable level of safety".

[Ian Marchuk]

I was musing this thread earlier this afternoon while doing some high risk grass seeding and raking.
I thought of the care I took of my tooling when cutting , planing and shaping. Dropping a plane or chisel really annoys me. I go out of my way when using a chain saw to avoid dirt , stones and nails and kick hazards. Yet somehow when I`m around table saws or bandsaws my mind wanders all over . I really have to discipline myself to PAYATTENTIONDOUGHEAD!!!!!!!
I (we) really take our digits for granted...... our attachment to them can be fleeting.

[samclem]

Besimeyer [sp] (and others) make a decent overarm blade guard which you could adapt to work with any saw, it's fits my modern unisaw well. I like, but it's pain for narrow cuts, I wouldn't be surprised if you could make the snap in riving knife/splitter work well especially with the guard, I use both when I can. I don't rip very much actual wood on mine, I prefer the badsaw it feels safer in so many ways, I can rip a 12' board with a 1/64th with proper infeed and outfeed support.

RE: Stability, it looks (even on those wood shims) like it would be pretty stable, mine lives in a mobile base and that only has 6 points of contact, only 4 of which actually support the saw the other one supports the extension table. I have mine backed to a 4'x6' MDF outfeed cabinet which weights a ton - My biggest complaint with outfeed tables is most often they aren't very stable or rigid you would be suprised the amount of a force an 8' sheet good can put on the end.

If you're going to cut narrow strips, make a zero clearence insert for the blade, it also helps keep the dust under the table.

[Mrleft8]

The magnetic feather board may become a nice hood ornament fairly soon. A splitter/can be a simple piece of wood the same width as the saw kerf, glued into the saw kerf of a zero clearance table insert. it should only stick up from the table surface a quarter inch or so, just enough to keep the lumber from pinching the back side of the blade, but not enough to make a frosty cold beer can tip over when placed carelessly on the saw table (At the end of the work day, of course!). A zero clearance table insert is a very good idea for anyone cutting thin strips of anything.

[Nicholas Carey]

I do not like blade guards or riving splitters. I want to see the blade, use push sticks when things are tight to the fence, keep the work area clear of crap and most important, do not let your mind wander. Make the cut, shut it off.

Oldad thinks a sharp blade is a good safety device.

Just to make it clear to those who don't know the difference:

A riving knife and a splitter are two different things. A riving knife does not impede one's view of the blade in any way. It's a crescent shaped piece of metal the the thickness of the thinnest kerf blade that can be used on the saw. It's coplanar with the blade and aligned with the inside edge of the kerf. It rises, tilts and falls with the blade. You can make blind and stopped cuts, like dadoes and rabbets with it in place.

Most kickback occurs when the aft end of the workpiece moves away from the fence and contacts the rising teeth at the back side of the blade, which then catches the workpieces and hurls back at high velocity towards the operator, optionally pulling the operator's hand(s) into the spinning blade. The riving knife prevents this sort of kickback by largely pinning the cut end of the workpiece in place against the fence.

This is a riving knife:



A riving knife may have a blade guard and anti-kickback pawls attached but they are trivial to remove when so desired, as in this Bosch tablesaw setup. I've got a Bosch table saw and it takes literally about 30 seconds to remove the blade guard from the riving knife (and about the same to put it back on):

[wizbang 13]

Thank You Nicholas Carey, until a few days ago I never heard of one.
It looks like a good thing, but apparently, the mechanipickels of the 34-450 unisaw will not take it.
If the magnetic thing fails, well,no big ting, as long as it does not land in my face.
I'll keep trying.

[Paul Pless]

If the magnetic thing fails, well,no big ting, as long as it does not land in my face.

The good news is that your face is generally not in the kickback line of fire; the bad news is that some other very sensitive portions of your anatomy generally are. . .

[samclem]

As a brief follow up, this is one I used on my unisaw + the overarm guard it allows me to keep a pretty good eye on the blade, and it's easy to take in and out.

http://www.mikestools.com/B78-431-Bi...zly-1023L.aspx

[chas]

" it should only stick up from the table surface a quarter inch or so, just enough to keep the lumber from pinching the back side of the blade, but not enough to make a frosty cold beer can tip over when placed carelessly on the saw table (At the end of the work day, of course!). A zero clearance table insert is a very good idea for anyone cutting thin strips of anything. "

That seems like a worthwhile addition for ripping; beats the shingles I use to drop in after the board clears the back of the table. LOL. It seems I do most of my ripping from each end, due to site conditions. For this a sawhorse or the end of the chop- saw table, set-up at table saw height and usually at the feed end. It doesn't take much of a saw to rip cedar and fir. / Jim

[Jay Greer]

I worked without a riving knife on my saws for over forty years with no problems. That is, until one day, while ripping a short piece of stock a kick back occured. It happened to fast that it took a moment for me to comprehend what had happened. The stock ripped the tip of my right thumb nearly off and went through the stack on the shop stove. It took two hours for a hand surgeon to save the end of my thumb and its nail. The thumbnail is very improtant because I play classic guitar and jazz ukulele. The accident nearly put a crimp my musician ship and wood working career. Since that time I have installed riving knives and knee kick off switches on all of my machines that need that kind of protection. The next knee kick switch is going to be on the drill press. I also believe in feather boards and anti kick back wheels.
Jay

[Kudzu]

It seems to go against most people thinking on here, but I will not operate a table saw without a splitter. As has been pointed out there was no riving knife on this saw (I restored a older but very similar unisaw and use it all the time) and it's not something that can be added because the saw was not designed for one. A splitter does no harm, doesn't cause an problems for through cuts and it can save your butt! I will go so far as say anyone that runs one without one just doesn't understand the risk and just asking for serious injury. I have had a board close up on the blade during a cut. The back of the blade is then trying to lift the wood off the table and throw it at you. I have had them lock up tight on the splitter but image if it closed on blade. It could throw the board right in your face.

While not because of the lack of a splitter I have photos from the ER of my thumb after a small peice of cedar vibrated into the blade and was kicked back as I reached across to turn off the saw. Bad timing but it mangled my thumb. Imagine what a big piece of wood could do.

As for guards, I usually keep an overhead guard on mine but they do get in the way so I run mine both ways. But unless I am doing blind cuts or dados I WILL NOT turn it with out a splitter.

[wizbang 13]

Gonna try this gizmo to start, this is getting more sobering by the minute.

[PeterSibley]

This is how it is rigged now. I ordered a magnetic fingerboard and a mini splitter from Lee. Apparently, no riving knife for the old bomb. I have a 3" wood extension on the switch. Nothing moves and it is all level.
And still, I only rip with it. I can build a boat but not a drawer.

My saw looks very much like yours and I can make a draw on it . You need one of these, the best idea around !
http://woodgears.ca/delta_saw/sled.html

[SMARTINSEN]

Minus several safety points for not supporting the heavy board. Fighting gravity is inimical to safety.



This guy shows how to adjust your cutoff sled to 90 degrees within an extraordinary level of precision:
http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/vide...ross-cut-sled/

[PaulGrun]

"I worked without a riving knife on my saws for over forty years with no problems. That is, until one day, while ripping a short piece of stock a kick back occured. It happened to fast that it took a moment for me to comprehend what had happened. The stock ripped the tip of my right thumb nearly off and went through the stack on the shop stove."

"I do not like blade guards or riving splitters. I want to see the blade, use push sticks when things are tight to the fence, keep the work area clear of crap and most important, do not let your mind wander. Make the cut, shut it off."

I would not pass judgement on anyone's style of working. But these two posts really stuck out (like a sore thumb, so to speak), to me. IMHO, there are two ways to learn something: you can learn from others' mistakes, or you can learn from your own mistakes. In the case of a table saw, that education comes at an incredibly high cost. Maybe even high enough that once you learn the lesson, school's over.

I am a member of the school that won't turn the saw on unless the splitter and blade guard are in place, at a minimum. I use the stock splitter and cheesy blade guard that came as standard equipment on my Delta years ago...you know, the ones that many folks sneer at and then toss aside. They are not the world's most convenient things to use, but they do have the admirable quality that they tend to slow down the pace of my work. This gives me time to think through the wisdom of the cut I am just about to make (or not). Once the cut is setup with a fence/featherboards/hold downs or whatever, I don't need to see the blade anymore, except to know where it is in relation to my fingers. The only exceptions are for dados and non-through cuts where the stock splitter doesn't work, and those cuts still make me nervous. I've made some simple changes to the mounting for the splitter and blade guard that allow me to remove/re-install in a matter of less than a minute.

To me, the problem is the inherent unpredictability of wood, which is a naturally occurring material. I just never know, no matter how much attention I am paying, or no matter if I can see the blade or not, when the cut is going to close up on the back of the blade and turn your piece of stock into lethal ammunition. There are lots of things you can and should do to protect yourself - proper alignment of the blade and the fence, don't make freehand cuts, keep the blade sharp and so on. But in my shop none of those are a substitute for good safety practices, practiced consistently.

I am reminded of a recent court case (it might have been here in Oregon) where a contractor's employee sued the living daylights out of the contractor after the employee did an incredibly boneheaded thing and was seriously injured. His argument? The contractor should have provided him with a SawStop to protect him (the employee) from his own reckless stupidity. And he won, too.

[Robert Meyer]

Minus several safety points for not supporting the heavy board. Fighting gravity is inimical to safety.



This guy shows how to adjust your cutoff sled to 90 degrees within an extraordinary level of precision:
http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/vide...ross-cut-sled/

I believe this is a photo of Matthias Wandel who knows better than to do this. Most large squaring sleds include a side stand to support long lengths. When they are this long it would be better to use a skill saw not a table saw. http://woodgears.ca/

[Mrleft8]

I wouldn't trust him, even if he wasn't demonstrating an incredibly stupid way to do something.....
Aside from the unsupported work, he's got on bedroom slippers, the power cord is in a prime location to be tripped over, and for god's sake..... The man has a clean shop!

[PaulGrun]

I wouldn't trust him, even if he wasn't demonstrating an incredibly stupid way to do something.....
Aside from the unsupported work, he's got on bedroom slippers, the power cord is in a prime location to be tripped over, and for god's sake..... The man has a clean shop!

Not to mention no hearing protection, no eye protection and a fully exposed blade.

[Old Dryfoot]

If you look closely you can see that the saw blade is not turning, I suspect this is nothing more than a staged "action shot". I think IMOHO the only thing he can be faulted for is not including a disclaimer with the picture.

[Bob Cleek]

I cringe every time I watch Norm Abram on New Yankee Workshop. No safety gear at all, but somehow, he still has all his fingers. I don't know how many times I've watched him rip stock without so much as a push stick and not more than three or four inches between the blade and the fence. Scary stuff.

I have found that the old fashioned feather boards are a huge help. They aren't a "safety" item per se. They won't prevent you from doing stupid stuff, but they do give you an extra pair of hands, so to speak, and that gives you a lot more control over the workpiece. With a feather board aft of the blade, you have no need to use your hands to keep the butt end of the stock against the fence and can pay complete attention to the feed. Instead of "rubbing your stomach and patting your head at the same time," you only have to worry about one operation. The feather board also makes the use of a push stick at the end fo the rip cut a cinch. There's not much point in using a push stick with one hand if the other is pushing the stock against the fence and moving towards the path of the blade at the same time.

They are cheap. You can get fancier ones, or make your own. I like the ones that fit into the miter slot and set up with a knob. Tightening the knob locks the slug in the slot and sets the angle of the "feathers" all in one operation. Get one that also has the metal bar which, if the stock is thin enough, can be set over the stock to keep it from rising off the table.

[chas]

"I don't know how many times I've watched him rip stock without so much as a push stick and not more than three or four inches between the blade and the fence. Scary stuff."

??... Not so much, although I'm always concerned about someone's ability on the tools if they get worked up over this. The thickness and quality of the material, and your experience, are your guide on how close you are comfortable with. If rubbing your head and patting your belly is confusing, then don't try it while jumping from one foot to the other. In some instances a push-stick complicates the process unnecessarily by adding a couple of steps to the process. Each to his own, although I make it a rule never to rip strips less than the length of my thumb; I still have a couple of inches left. / Jim

[PaulGrun]

I cringe every time I watch Norm Abram on New Yankee Workshop. No safety gear at all, but somehow, he still has all his fingers. I don't know how many times I've watched him rip stock without so much as a push stick and not more than three or four inches between the blade and the fence. Scary stuff.

I have found that the old fashioned feather boards are a huge help. They aren't a "safety" item per se. They won't prevent you from doing stupid stuff, but they do give you an extra pair of hands, so to speak, and that gives you a lot more control over the workpiece. With a feather board aft of the blade, you have no need to use your hands to keep the butt end of the stock against the fence and can pay complete attention to the feed. Instead of "rubbing your stomach and patting your head at the same time," you only have to worry about one operation. The feather board also makes the use of a push stick at the end fo the rip cut a cinch. There's not much point in using a push stick with one hand if the other is pushing the stock against the fence and moving towards the path of the blade at the same time.

They are cheap. You can get fancier ones, or make your own. I like the ones that fit into the miter slot and set up with a knob. Tightening the knob locks the slug in the slot and sets the angle of the "feathers" all in one operation. Get one that also has the metal bar which, if the stock is thin enough, can be set over the stock to keep it from rising off the table.

Agree with everything Bob said, except one small point. IMHO a feather board is most definitely another tool in the safety arsenal.

[ILikeRust]

I've owned and used a Unisaw for probably about 15 years or more now, and more recently I upgraded to a 12/14 (5 hp, takes either a 12" or 14" blade, nearly 1,000 lbs of good ol' `murican cast arn). Neither has a splitter, guard or riving knife. I would, however, recommend using a zero-clearance table insert and splitter, and making one has been on my "to do" list for too long, so I should put my money where my mouth is and get a round tuit myself. You can buy - or make - a splitter for your Unisaw, even though you can't get a riving knife for it. You can make a zero-clearance insert and splitter yourself in an easy afternoon. Here's an example of the general idea. And another. Then there's these free step-by-step instructions from Woodsmith.

What is just as important as all the other things others have mentioned (e.g., featherboard, push sticks, etc.) is to use a good-quality SHARP blade. I've bought and sold lots of table saws over the years and refurbished several as well. One of the first things I usually do is pull the blade out that came with the saw and toss it in the scrap metal bucket. It's rare that the blade that comes with an old saw such as yours is anything worth keeping or in decent usable condition anyhow. Get a good blade of the proper type and keep it retracted below the table when not in use. My routine is raise the blade to the required height, turn the machine on, make the cut, and then lower the blade back below the table (unless I know I'm going to be making a bunch of repeat cuts). In any case, as soon as I know I'm done cutting with the table saw, the blade goes back down below the level of the table.

[ILikeRust]

Also clean and polish the table surface and wax it or apply one of the many products out there to make it smooth and slippery. Not only will that help prevent rust, it makes the saw much more pleasant and controllable to use, as you don't have to apply excessive force to shove the stock across the table. Same goes for the face of the fence. The resistance mostly should come from the blade - and if it's a good, sharp blade, even that shouldn't present excessive resistance.

[chas]

"Also clean and polish the table surface and wax it or apply one of the many products out there to make it smooth and slippery. Not only will that help prevent rust, it makes the saw much more pleasant and controllable to use, as you don't have to apply excessive force to shove the stock across the table. Same goes for the face of the fence. The resistance mostly should come from the blade - and if it's a good, sharp blade, even that shouldn't present excessive resistance.'

...and too often forgotten. Well said. / Jim

[wizbang 13]

The saw top , and the yellow cedar table for the fence , is poly varnished.