A 20ft Windermere Skiff Restoration

[gondolier88]

I went to see a boat today that was described as a 'Char boat' (for those ignorant of what a Char is; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_char ).

However upon arival it was pretty clear that she hadn't been built with fishing in mind, but was built to most of the typical Windermere Skiff design criteria; narrow hull (4ft beam), but rather full bilge. Pitch pine/larch planking, 7 per side with a Mahogany sheer strake. Oak timbers and copper fastened throughout. Two rowing positions and wineglass transom.

She has been stored upside down for nearly 20 years, but is in surprisingly good condition- the planks are in very good nick, with a couple sprung at the transom, and a couple of butt joints come apart, but other than that they appear fairly sound. Inside she seems to be in very good condition indeed- frames seem to be sound (those I could get to), 95% of the floors are like new, thwarts and standing knees are fine and all fastenings seem tight. The stem is definitely shot, more than likely the apron too, but the planks at the bow have held their shape fine.

I am yet to speak to the owner, currently on holiday, it was a good freind who showed me it with a view to letting the owner have an appraisal of of it's condition. It seems he has never used it, it has sat for many years unused, and he now wants to have it go to a good home before it gets too late- probably not too far away with the planks beginning to spring at the transom and the stem gone.

In my opinion the repairs needed would cost more to be done professionally than the boat is worth- not problem for him if he wanted to use it regularly, but he doesn't, so I will suggest he releases it to me for a nominal fee and I'll undertake a restoration myself as it is the ideal boat to have when I work full time on England's third largest lake and live 10mins drive from England's largest lake!! Not only that, but the majority of 20ft skiffs on the lakes are now either scrapped, in rowing boat hire fleets or in boathouses and rarely seen so I am very keen to get this back in the water.

Now, let's see if I can get these pic's to post...

Greg

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[wizbang 13]

[gondolier88]

Thanks, I've no idea what I'm doing wrong, I can't seem to get them to post as a part of my message.

[SMARTINSEN]

In Photobucket, hover your mouse over the thumbnails, and a menu will appear. Drop down to the last option, "Copy IMG code"

Then simply paste that into your reply or new post:

[gondolier88]

That's great Steve, thanks!

[Peerie Maa]

Does she still have the iron work? Outriggers, seat back and so on?
There are some interesting details, those joggled floors for example.

[gondolier88]

Hi Nick,

I honestly don't know yet, I need to wait for the owner to come back from holiday to ascertain exactly what he has. Anything he hasn't got will lead me to do some research around the shores of Windermere to see if I can find any sisters. It has the holes in the side where the 4 outriggers were attached, so I assume he has removed everything that can be removed when he turned her over and put her to bed.

It would be nice to discover which yard she was built in.

Greg

[gondolier88]

Well, going to collect the boat tomorrow using a trailer to transport her the 5/6 miles back to where I'm restoring her.

Pretty smooth roads, and we'll be going steady, but what would you guys recommend bracing-wise for trailering her- the keel will be supported full length and the thwarts look pretty sound- is that all you would recommend, or does it need some beam clamps to stop spread after having been stored upside down for 20+ years?

Thanks for your help,

Greg

[gondolier88]

Having done an appraisal of the boat now it's on the trailer I have a list of work as long as my arm, but it's all do-able.

1st off; the stem is rotten, and although the rot hasn't spread into the resinous larch planking (yet!!) I want to make sure it stays that way until I get to replace the stem so I'm going to treat the rot with cuprinol 5-star wood treat, which will look after any rot- wet or dry, and woodworm too.

Next job is to find some oak for the stem- I've lofted it and made a template.

I need suggestions for the best way to put the boat in stocks while replacing the stem? The first 18" back from the stem is unframed, so I was going to remove the first frame (it needs replacing anyway) and put in a temporary bulkhead to hold the planks in shape while I remove and replace the stem?

Greg

[Peerie Maa]

Is the stem in one piece, or is there a separate apron and stem knee? It looks as though the rebate is carved into the stem, with an apron on the upper strakes?
By "lofted it" do you mean the bevels of the bearding as well as the profile? If you have taken the bevels, and can take the old stem out without destroying its shape, you should not need to worry about bracing the planking, it might even be easier to fine fit the faying surface if the planks can come and go, so I would free off that transverse bow sheets beam and leave the rotten frame out.

[nedL]

I don't know how I missed this thread until now. A beautiful skiff you have there, I love her lines! I too think I would let the planks 'float' while doing the work. I might make a few 'station molds' before you start the disassembly so that you can check her shape as you put things back together.

[gondolier88]

Nick, Ned,

Thanks Ned, I agree, she's a very pretty little boat indeed.

There is a stem knee, and the apron is a separate piece on the top strakes only. I've lofted the profile only at the moment, but have put the waterlines on the template, so will take the bevels off the bearding line- one side of the stem is in far better shape than the other so I should be able to get all the bevels I need.

I'll heed both yours and Ned's advice and let the planks sit free- but using Ned's advice, I'll make a bulkhead up to the lines of the first frame- but instead of fixing it I'll keep it as a loose template only, this leaves plenty of room for faying the planks back together, but also means that should I need to, I have the option of fixing it in as a bulkhead- but I'm sure you're both right and I won't need to.

Now, do I replace the breast hook before I remove the stem, so as to maintain an accurate and strong brace between the gunwales?

Nick, a direct question to you as you've seen your fair share of Lakeland skiffs- how common is it for mine to have a proper inwale? Most I can find around Coniston and Windermere are simply the sheerstrake with long whiskers before the outriggers and a rubbing strake after the outriggers and running to the transom, with nothing on the inside at all, just the frames up to the top of the sheerstrake.

Greg

[Peerie Maa]

Nick, Ned,

Thanks Ned, I agree, she's a very pretty little boat indeed.

There is a stem knee, and the apron is a separate piece on the top strakes only. I've lofted the profile only at the moment, but have put the waterlines on the template, so will take the bevels off the bearding line- one side of the stem is in far better shape than the other so I should be able to get all the bevels I need.

I'll heed both yours and Ned's advice and let the planks sit free- but using Ned's advice, I'll make a bulkhead up to the lines of the first frame- but instead of fixing it I'll keep it as a loose template only, this leaves plenty of room for faying the planks back together, but also means that should I need to, I have the option of fixing it in as a bulkhead- but I'm sure you're both right and I won't need to.

Now, do I replace the breast hook before I remove the stem, so as to maintain an accurate and strong brace between the gunwales?

I would go slowly, one step at a time. I would withdraw all of the fastenings in the stem first and see if the stem will slide up and out. If it wont, then free off the fastenings between plank, apron and breasthook to see if that will give enough wriggle room. Just feel your way as you go, rather that ripping in to it.

Nick, a direct question to you as you've seen your fair share of Lakeland skiffs- how common is it for mine to have a proper inwale? Most I can find around Coniston and Windermere are simply the sheerstrake with long whiskers before the outriggers and a rubbing strake after the outriggers and running to the transom, with nothing on the inside at all, just the frames up to the top of the sheerstrake.

Greg

I am only familiar with boats built for hire. That is not to say that boats built for other purposes, for char fishermen etc, were built the same way. The skiff I rebuilt had a lot of mahogany, which will have been a bit more up market than a boat built entirely out of lacal timber for use by locals.

[gondolier88]

I would go slowly, one step at a time...Just feel your way as you go, rather that ripping in to it.
.

Have we met?!?!

Thanks for your advice, I will endeavour to think before I take the next step.

I'm really quite keen to get some research done on the boat- likely after I've completed work on it- to find out who she was built for and built by.

Perhaps if you're round Spark Bridge way you might wish to come and have a look?

Greg

[Peerie Maa]

I would like that. I'm on holiday in London next week, but could come the week after.

[gondolier88]

That would be great- I work Tue-Sat, so Mondays are generally a good day for me if that suits you? If that's no good, unless I have an evening cruise on the boat at work to do I'm free most evenings, except Thursdays.

Let me know when is best for you, a bit nearer the time if you'd rather.

Thanks!

Greg

[Peerie Maa]

That would be great- I work Tue-Sat, so Mondays are generally a good day for me if that suits you? If that's no good, unless I have an evening cruise on the boat at work to do I'm free most evenings, except Thursdays.

Let me know when is best for you, a bit nearer the time if you'd rather.

Thanks!

Greg

I'll PM you when we get back from London. We are travelling back on the Sunday, and may have a long lie on the Monday. I live on Walney, so an evening may be easiest.

[gondolier88]

At last- an update on where things are with the skiff;

In the last 6 weeks I've managed to get about 2 full days and three evenings on the boat.

We have transported her upto the barn we use for winter maintenance at work, I've built a strongback and she's had the real work begin on her.

All hull exterior surfaces have been scraped, with the paint below waterline just having the loose stuff removed. There have been a few surprises come to light, but nothing major- or nothing major that I hadn't already discovered! I've taken the decision to replace the sheer strakes and inwales- this is due to the sheer strakes having been replaced in massively inferior quality timber at some point in the boat's history, and having accrued rot in a number of places. The inwales are predominantly sound, however they are very worn, the lovely cove detail on them has all but disappeared, there are patches of rot on both and one of them has a badly scarphed repair in Iroko.

Interestingly, the inwales appear to be made of Spruce, which is unusual in boats around here. It also tapers gracefully from about 1.5" at the stem to 3" midships, and then back down to 1.5" at the transom.

Today, before I left for home, I decided to remove the breasthook. Getting the whiskers off was interesting- one screw, two 12g square shank nails and a rove for good measure! The breasthook was just screwed- but, again because of the inferior sheerstrake timber, the screws had embedded well into the plank and had to be cut.

When it came out it was interesting to see just how much rot had been caused by all the water sat on it when stored upside down for all those years- also, just how difficult it is going to be getting the stem out in one piece...!

So now, a timber hunt begins...

Lets see if we can get some pics posted.

Greg

[gondolier88]

Ok, lets see if it's worked!

Forgive the quality- camera has just died, so It's mobile camera for now.

[gondolier88]

Difficult to tell in the pictures, but there is an 10'6" post that runs between the two beefy horses, I used joist hangers to join them, quick, strong, cheap and easy.

[gondolier88]

[gondolier88]

[gondolier88]

Here you can see the deck boards and side benches, as well as the bow sheets. The ironwork to the bottom right are the 4 outriggers.

[gondolier88]

[gondolier88]

[gondolier88]

Some iroko planking on the all larch boat...!

[gondolier88]

Removing the whiskers to get to the breasthook.

[gondolier88]

Using a hacksaw blade to cut through screws in the breasthook.

[gondolier88]

[nedL]

Oh she is even prettier upright! Very nice tapered & riveted scarfs, no butt blocks there.

[gondolier88]

No, indeed!! She has some really lovely constructional details- the one piece tapered inwales with cove line are just beautiful. Another reason to believe the sheer strakes are non-original as I can't believe the original builder would have coved the inwale, but left the sheer strake plain.

I'm so looking forward to the day she can go back in the water again, all varnished up, a long way off, but if I keep thinking about it I'll get it done quicker. So I keep telling myself!

Greg

[Hwyl]

Very nice, I remember admiring them in Bowness

[gondolier88]

Thanks, she's a very similar design to the hire boats in Bowness- I think probably made by the same yard- Borwcick's of Windermere. It's quite a bit larger than the hire boats however, and quite a heavy built boat in comparison too. Just as pretty though.

[gondolier88]

OK, so finally sourced some timber for the stem- locally grown English Oak, seasoned for about 12 months- about half half the time to get it seasoned to where it needs to be, but is stable, tight grain and to be honest, if it's a little bit green it's a damn sight easier to work too.

Here she is (if it works, if not I'll re-do when the kids have got out of the bath!);





Greg

[nedL]

Looks good. How difficult did it turn out to remove the old stem? Looks like it should have slid out nicely without having to spread the planking much at all.

[gondolier88]

Hi Ned,

Sorry for the lack of pics- I'm without camera at the moment, the ones above are from a borrowed source.

Thanks for asking, the stem came out very easily- I removed the breasthook, removed the fixings from the first 18" or so, removed the stem knee( it was sound, but had been spiked in numerous places so ended up coming out in three pieces), then removed the nails from the stem- pretty easy as they didn't have much to hold onto.

Two of the hood ends were slightly damaged- one that already had a split in, and one through being a little overzealous at persuading a nail, but it should be quite easy to scarph in two fillets.

Happy to report that there wasn't a single patch of rot anywhere in the hood ends, I am now a Larch-ophile!

Greg

[thedutchtouch]

i can only see the pictures in posts 19, 20, and 34.

[gondolier88]

Is that better? It seems that when my Photobucket album is open the links on pages to it don't like to work.

[thedutchtouch]

aha there they all are! (also as an aside you can post up to 6 images in the same post) looks like a nice project

[Larks]

She is going to be an even more gorgeous skiff on the water Greg, I'm looking forward to watching progress. Great find mate and good luck with the rest of the work.

Do you have any knowledge of her age? (Or have I missed that in the posts above?)

[gondolier88]

She is going to be an even more gorgeous skiff on the water Greg, I'm looking forward to watching progress. Great find mate and good luck with the rest of the work.

Do you have any knowledge of her age? (Or have I missed that in the posts above?)

Thanks for that!

Yes, and no to her age; she is definitely no later than 1920's (this is the era the last owner thought she had been built). Going back to her being a char boat- she was owned by a Mrs. Pugh who used her for char fishing (with a rod). However, traditional char boats in the area are much lighter build and smaller- usually around 17-18'.

Having spoken to a few local char fishermen they agree with my theory that she could have likely been built as a char-netting boat- these boats were built during a boom demand for Arctic Char in restaurants- the business of netting the species quickly became heavily regulated as they are a finite number and nets aren't as forgiving as rods, so each char-netting boat had it's own patch on Windermere, while the rod boats could trawl wherever they wished.

Competition was heated and catches varied massively as the shoal moved around the bed of the lake, and with pressure from rod char-boat fishermen the process of netting was banned in 1924.

I am yet to find out when the boom for netting began, but I can't see the process being more than 10 years in the running, as the rod fishermen outnumbered the netting boats by a large majority.

So by simple process of elimination that would place her somewhere between 1914 and 1924, which to my eyes would suit her construction perfectly.

I have a local curator at the Windermere Steamboat Museum researching the history of char netting- I have one picture taken in the early 1920's of the char-netting fleet beached on Windermere, and I'm pretty positive my skiff could well be one of them.

Everyone is in agreement that with her constructional details she is no normal rowing skiff, and if she is a netting boat, could be a very rare boat indeed.

More research is needed however before a true conclusion can be arrived at.

That was quite a long answer to your question, sorry!

Greg

[Larks]

That was quite a long answer to your question, sorry!

Greg

Not at all, it is incredibly interesting and I imagine everyone else here is as interested as I am in hearing more of both her own and the char fishing history as you uncover it. Any chance of scanning and posting of the old photo??

cheers, another Greg

[thedutchtouch]

Not at all, it is incredibly interesting and I imagine everyone else here is as interested as I am in hearing more of both her own and the char fishing history as you uncover it. Any chance of scanning and posting of the old photo??

cheers, another Greg

seconded

[Hwyl]

We like long answers.

[gondolier88]

Here is the photo of the char netting fleet in 1924.

Greg

[Peerie Maa]

Here is the photo of the char netting fleet in 1924.

Greg

Am I right in thinking that the outriggers are further aft than on your skiff? No seat back or side rails either, probably to allow easier access to the stern sheets.

[gondolier88]

Hi Nick,

It is something that had occurred to me too- however, it is unlikely that every netting boat would have been identical in every way- the size, plank lines and profile all fit perfectly.

The fact that my boat has a seat back (that is missing) doesn't overly worry me- it always struck me as strange that a Windermere boat that has been stored with original outriggers/burden boards/oars/fittings etc. didn't have the seat back and rails with it. The 'supports' for the seat back would also appear to be a later add-on when comparing wood quality and the way they are finished.

On talking with the local char fishing champion he said that a couple of the smaller diameter holes you saw in the gunwales would be were the line reels are kept- he showed me photos of his on his modern boat, but they have remained unchanged for decades. The other reason for the suggestion that my boat could be a netting boat is the appearance of what seem to be some sort of vertical bracket 6" high, 14-16" apart where the fishermen's seat is in the photo above- these line up perfectly with the larger diameter holes in the gunwales in the same position on my boat.

Up until now no-one has come up with a better explanation of why a Windermere boat would be built in such a way, so until proven otherwise I'm telling people I believe she is a netting boat, until I have the proof for it, however, I won't say that is exactly what she is.

My first step is to identify whereabouts on Windermere the photo above was taken...

Greg

[gondolier88]

It's been a long time since I wrote an update, for which I apologise, we currently have a camera that doesn't work and really really should get round to fixing!

So I've taken to begging photos off mates with cameras that do work. No update isn't an indication of no work, however, I have managed to get a few hours most weeks for the past couple of months, unfortunately work and family commitments means there isn't much time left for the boat, but she is spoiled when I manage to get up to her.

Tasks that have been addressed;

- New stem has been made, though not yet fitted- English Oak
- New bow sheets brace- African Mahogany
- New sawn half frames (that tie the planking fwd, and support the bow sheets brace)- English oak
- Scarf repair on garboard where a small rot-pocket had started- Larch

The pictures probably speak better than I do;













Greg

[gondolier88]

And:





Greg

[Thorne]

Looking good!