Do you respect Obama's dance around the issue of gay marriage?

[S.V. Airlie]

Give me a break. You're REALLY picking the flys$%t out of the pepper, on this one.

1) He never claimed to be an outsider.... this is either true, or it isn't. If you disagree, prove it.

2)he had more experience in government, when he was elected POTUS, than Mitt Romney has now.

ROMNEY might as well make that claim, since his total governmental experience was 4 years as a mostly absentee governor (81 days in the Statehouse, in 4 years.... much of the time spent running for President). Romney is the true outsider!

Two points you ignore. Romney left his governorship to his Lt. Governor and you have not commented on how much time as a senator did he take off to run for president? on the side, who filled in for him when he did take time away from the senate, a troll?. Was he doing an adequate job for his constituents when he was gallivanting around the country? So easy to throw stones when the opponent is on thin ice.

[pefjr]

He doesn't get elected President, either.... not even nominated for the job.

Once again: you can't create change, if you can't get elected.

Yes you can. Ron Paul's thoughts and ideas have influenced more than Obama's. However he has yet to receive a Nobel.

[Norman Bernstein]

I'll first need you to prove your claim that this was a "right wing" conspiracy as you seem to have proof that the "right wing" manufactured this. I think the Politico piece I posted would say you are wrong

What in the world are you talking about? That has got to be your most non-sensical post, ever. Who said anything about a 'right wing conspiracy'? Where in hell did THAT come from?

Once again, and for the very last time: Obama NEVER claimed to be a political outsider. He coulsdn't possibly make that claim, because it is so obviously untrue. Politico was stating an opinion, and, IMHO, a completely wrong one, but this isn't a judgment issue:

Obama either made the claim, or he didn't.... it's that simple. Show me he did, and I'll retract and apologize.

Time for a motocycle ride.

[Vince Brennan]

Thank you, but I believe it is faster horses and younger women. Faster women are too hard to catch, for an old guy like me.

Ahhh, the trick, my boy, the trick....

A sincere compliment off-handedly delivered to the lady in question will usually cause her to stumble in the whirligig of life, at which time we Elder Members merely step in and catch her up from falling.... and there's your propinquity and opportunity in one packet.

The rest is up to your audacity, experience, personality and charm.

It's worked for me...

[Glen Longino]

Yes you can. Ron Paul's thoughts and ideas have influenced more than Obama's. However he has yet to receive a Nobel.

"Ron Paul's thoughts and ideas have influenced" 90% of his own party not to nominate him! Get over it!

[Chip-skiff]

If you genuinely like women and are nice to them, you don't have to catch them.

They come to you. And the pleasure is mutual.

As far as the President's position on same-sex marriage, I think he is not comfortable with it personally, but has done a decent job of separating his feelings from his sense of what's best for the body politic. I have great respect for those who hold to their values, while not claiming the right to impose them on others who disagree.

[Glen Longino]

If you genuinely like women and are nice to them, you don't have to catch them.

They come to you. And the pleasure is mutual.

Bingo!
You're a wise man, Chip!

[Osborne Russell]

Or do you wish he'd stop playing election year politics?

Why do you want the federal government -- the executive branch, at that -- to promote gay marriage?

[wardd]

Or do you wish he'd stop playing election year politics?

hadn,t you noticed it's an election year, any politition in order to do good has to be elected

[wardd]

Out of curiosity Norman, do you ever listen to NPR? If you had, what not necessarily what you posted. The guy was interviewd and he said that he chose to leave. Yes some underlings gave him a probable cause to leave,but there may be more to it than that.Did you expect Romney to tie the guy up and hog tie him and force him to stay? Is that what you wanted Romney to do?If nothing else, if he left Romney's team because of the discrimination alone, the guy is looking at a great discrimination case don't you think?.I'm not a fan, but fair reporting is fair reporting.

if mitt can't run his campaign how is he going to run the country?

[seanz]

Yo no hablo espanol.

[switters]

If you genuinely like women and are nice to them, you don't have to catch them.

They come to you. And the pleasure is mutual.

As far as the President's position on same-sex marriage, I think he is not comfortable with it personally, but has done a decent job of separating his feelings from his sense of what's best for the body politic. I have great respect for those who hold to their values, while not claiming the right to impose them on others who disagree.

Very true, I am just waiting for the right one.

I can only think of one bad unintended consequence of letting two people in love marry each other. More divorce lawyers.

[wardd]

Yes you can. Ron Paul's thoughts and ideas have influenced more than Obama's. However he has yet to receive a Nobel.

care to explain how?

[S.V. Airlie]

if mitt can't run his campaign how is he going to run the country?

Not that not it matters, your post was not on the point I was making.Not even close. Norman was stating that Mitt took x amount of time away from his governorship campaigning as if Obama, as senator, didn't. Right!Basically the usual deflection. My post wasn't even about Romney.Nice try.

[wardd]

Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie
Out of curiosity Norman, do you ever listen to NPR? If you had, what not necessarily what you posted. The guy was interviewd and he said that he chose to leave. Yes some underlings gave him a probable cause to leave,but there may be more to it than that.Did you expect Romney to tie the guy up and hog tie him and force him to stay? Is that what you wanted Romney to do?If nothing else, if he left Romney's team because of the discrimination alone, the guy is looking at a great discrimination case don't you think?.I'm not a fan, but fair reporting is fair reporting.

this is the quote of yours

[Glen Longino]

Not that not it matters, your post was not on the point I was making.Not even close. Norman was stating that Mitt took x amount of time away from his governorship campaigning as if Obama, as senator, didn't. Right!Basically the usual deflection. My post wasn't even about Romney.Nice try.

Are you still whining about the 2008 election?
Move along,! Get up to speed!
The 2012 election is approaching quickly!
Who will you vote for? Romney? Obama?
Better start thinking about it now so you'll know by next November.
You know how slow you think...get thinking now before it's too late!

[Captain Intrepid]

Or do you wish he'd stop playing election year politics?

I wish it were possible. However, I don't trust that the US population at large is intelligent enough for him to do so.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Or do you wish he'd stop playing election year politics?

Obama is the president of the United States. It is the richest, most powerful and most complicated country to ever exist. To successfully run such a country there has to be a hierarchy of issues to be attended to. By my measure our president is fully engaged. Being a superb politician he knows not to engage in unprofitable dogfights involving "morals" issues which do nothing but give his opponents something to carp about.
Since this is an open forum you can carp about any issue you like. Aren't you lucky?

[Paul Pless]

yes

[seanz]

Ha!

V

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Obama is my favoured candidate. And, I still despise the fact that he continually takes the path of cowardice; even the more so that Obama does so in the face of an often immoral right. . .

"My favored candidate" followed by "I still despise" and "path of cowardice" applied to the same person. That's a lot of emotional baggage to carry around till election day. Do you have to be medicated before you enter the voting booth?

[Paul Pless]

"My favored candidate" followed by "I still despise" and "path of cowardice" applied to the same person. That's a lot of emotional baggage to carry around till election day. Do you have to be medicated before you enter the voting booth?

So I should just be like Norm and happily applaud Obama's every utterance, defending every bit of mediocrity no matter how meaningless and empty they be from day to day?

[seanz]

So I should just be like Norm and happily applaud Obama's every utterance, defending every bit of mediocrity no matter how meaningless and empty they be from day to day?

Sure, why not? He seems happy......

[switters]

mom jeans

[pefjr]

So I should just be like Norm and happily applaud Obama's every utterance, defending every bit of mediocrity no matter how meaningless and empty they be from day to day?

Blind, unquestioned toe the line loyalty, is too sheepleishly expensive. It has made a hypocrite out of flocks of followers. Only a handful have ever questioned the Nobel PP.

[Keith Wilson]

Two speed kick back hub with coaster brake!

An old Bendix hub? Where the $#%# did they find a Bendix Red Band? Or does somebody make a new ones?

No, I don't like Obama's dance around marriage equality. Unfortunately, that's the sort of crap politicians have to do. I don't vote for the pure in heart; they lose, or if they win they can't get anything done.

The curious thing is that most people who criticize him for it would oppose it if he came out in favor.

[Donn]

..tow the line loyalty..

It's "toe the line."

[pefjr]

It's "toe the line."

no problem with sheepleishly?

[L.W. Baxter]

Obama is the president of the United States. It is the richest, most powerful and most complicated country to ever exist. To successfully run such a country there has to be a hierarchy of issues to be attended to. By my measure our president is fully engaged. Being a superb politician he knows not to engage in unprofitable dogfights involving "morals" issues which do nothing but give his opponents something to carp about.
Since this is an open forum you can carp about any issue you like. Aren't you lucky?

Nice summation.

[Glen Longino]

An old Bendix hub? Where the $#%# did they find a Bendix Red Band? Or does somebody make a new ones?

No, I don't like Obama's dance around marriage equality. Unfortunately, that's the sort of crap politicians have to do. I don't vote for the pure in heart; they lose, or if they win they can't get anything done.

The curious thing is that most people who criticize him for it would oppose it if he came out in favor.

..."most people who criticize him for it would oppose it if he came out in favor."

Yep!
I think that's what frustrates the Regressives...Obama refuses to paint the bullseye on his own back by being as radical, batshyte crazy, and openly divisive as the Regressive candidates have shown themselves to be.
Obama prefers to watch the pig wrassling than to be a participant.
That seems to irritate the hell out of Pless and Donn and pefjr, but it tickles the hell out of me!

[wardd]

what does romney stand for that anybody finds admirable?

[Norman Bernstein]

So I should just be like Norm and happily applaud Obama's every utterance, defending every bit of mediocrity no matter how meaningless and empty they be from day to day?

I most certainly don't do that.

Yes, I like Obama. No, I don't agree with every one of his positions or actions... but I will admit liking most of them. Earlier in his term, I criticized him for excessive compromise and insufficient willingness to fight back.... but I think he's improved since then.

Of course, expressing satisfaction or approval of the guy will be twisted, here in the bilge, into some sort of fawning adulation.... which it ain't.

Then again, consider this: how many conservatives here in the bilge are fawning sycophants for Mitt Romney? NONE?

Your position, Paul, is curmudgeonly. You freely admit that Obama is your favored candidate.... but here in the bilge, you often 'dis' him.... which is no particular crime..... but then again, how often do you do that to Romney?

WTF.... if you want to 'wear' that sour puss from now until November, knock yourself out.

As long as you vote for Obama

[Donn]

That seems to irritate the hell out of Pless and Donn and pefjr, but it tickles the hell out of me!

Doesn't bother me in the least. It's nice to know he's stayed consistent on one position during his tenure.

[Paul Pless]

but then again, how often do you do that to Romney?

I find most Republicans, including Romney, to not be worthy of much conversation. If it makes you happy, I did, just a few hours ago label him 'pathetic' with regards to his politics. I'm unwilling to castigate him or his family for his personal success with regards to wealth, his religion, or the many other attacks against his character which go on here daily. If I engage Obama more often, its because I think he gets a free pass all too often for simply not being a Republican.

[Norman Bernstein]

I find most Republicans, including Romney, to not be worthy of much conversation. If it makes you happy, I did, just a few hours ago label him 'pathetic' with regards to his politics. I'm unwilling to castigate him or his family for his personal success with regards to wealth, his religion, or the many other attacks against his character which go on here daily. If I engage Obama more often, its because I think he gets a free pass all too often for simply not being a Republican.

OK.

nonetheless, you DID need a 'poking'. You'll thank me later

[John Smith]

Obama is my favoured candidate. And, I still despise the fact that he continually takes the path of cowardice; even the more so that Obama does so in the face of an often immoral right. . .

I think he did take a stand when he decided not to defend the Defense of Marriage Act.

In a sane country he could take a more proactive position and not lose votes, but we are not in a sane country. The single biggest issue/determining factor in this election may be the successful implementation of Voter ID laws.

[John Smith]

You call it cowardice: I call it pragmatism. Politicians who refuse to compromise on ANY principle, and as a result, fail to get elected, are completely incapable of effecting change for good.

For a true political coward, try Mitt Romney; throwing his foreign policy advisor under the bus because he was openly gay.... and because the American Family Association put the screws to him, is a perfect example of political cowardice. There's a huge difference between toeing the conservative line about gay marriage.... and giving in to anti-gay discrimination. Think about it: Romney has NO policy statement on LGBT issues, whatsoever.... what is he going to say about LGBT when asked, in a debate? Will he defend abject discrimination against gay people, which is way, way beyond the opposition to gay marriage?

Now we have him (Romney) not responding to a woman who thinks Obama should be tried for Treason.

Both these guys are walking their own tightropes.

[John Smith]

Out of curiosity Norman, do you ever listen to NPR? If you had, what not necessarily what you posted. The guy was interviewd and he said that he chose to leave. Yes some underlings gave him a probable cause to leave,but there may be more to it than that.Did you expect Romney to tie the guy up and hog tie him and force him to stay? Is that what you wanted Romney to do?If nothing else, if he left Romney's team because of the discrimination alone, the guy is looking at a great discrimination case don't you think?.I'm not a fan, but fair reporting is fair reporting.

Yes, he made that choice: after it was made clear he was not welcome.

[John Smith]

Oh, as a conservative, I have a special level of hate for the politics that the current Republican Party is playing.

It is certainly not my dad's Republican Party.

[John Smith]

No wonder you admire Obama so much. You seem to applaud his spinelessness. . .

I don't think that's a fair assessment. Compromise is not necessarily a sign of weakness, and wisdom is not necessarily a sign of weakness. A year ago this president made an extremely courageous decision. He not only killed Bin Laden, but more importantly retrieved a treasure of data. It would have been a less courageous decision to bomb that complex, but he took the more difficult path that led to a better result.

I've come to a conclusion which some here may agree with that Obama has to play the hand he was dealt. Part of that hand includes a Republican Party committed to his defeat above all else. It also includes FOX News. I was disappointed with his compromising, but he's managed to move the pieces around so that the "board position" favors him. He is now the one fighting for the middle class against those who are fighting for the top 1%; even running a 1%'er. I think he's managed to put himself in a position wherein he can show the independents that the Republicans have prevented us from doing better.

Meanwhile the Republicans scare the hell out of me and, I suspect, as more people pay attention they'll be frightened by what is being passed in the states they control.

[bobbys]

Im waiting for John Smith to weigh in before i comment.....

[John Smith]

But for someone that proposed "Hope and Change" and NOT being a part of the mainstream political process, it raises an interesting question: Is this the inevitable transformation of the idealist, or are the idealist statements just what you say to get elected so that you can effect SOME change?

Too many of Obama's supporters believed he would bring the two parties together. I got thrown out of a meeting back in '08 when I asked how they expected him to do that. I expect some of the disappointment many of these people feel is that he failed to get Republican support. Did they expect too much, or did he deliver too little?

I've asked here often for a list of Obama policies that actually made it into law and how they hurt the country. Not much response.

This whole issue, as far as I'm concerned, is not something that should be up to the will of the majority. The scary part is which voters will be motivated to vote because of this issue, and that's the tightrope Obama must walk, especially in the face of the new voter ID laws.

[Donn]

Im waiting for John Smith to weigh in before i comment.....

Don't hold your breath.

[seanz]

Don't hold your breath.

It's alright, we gave bobbys the talk.

[bobbys]

Don't hold your breath.

.

He must have SOMETHING to say its not like him to not comment....

[pefjr]

A year ago this president made an extremely courageous decision. He not only killed Bin Laden, but more importantly retrieved a treasure of data. It would have been a less courageous decision to bomb that complex, but he took the more difficult path that led to a better result.

What?....... OMG...... Hilliary was there also, are you gonna give her some of the credit? I suppose you think the Nobel PP was a well earned award too?

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

So I should just be like Norm and happily applaud Obama's every utterance, defending every bit of mediocrity no matter how meaningless and empty they be from day to day?

Let's get this out of the way. You are NOT in Norm's class. He is a sharp and intelligent debater. I'm not going to characterise your postings or their contents. That might attract Scott's retribution.
Good luck on election day.

[pefjr]

let's get this out of the way. You are not in norm's class. He is a sharp and intelligent debater. I'm not going to characterise your postings or their contents. That might attract scott's retribution.
Good luck on election day.

[Durnik]

Obama is my favoured candidate. And, I still despise the fact that he continually takes the path of cowardice; even the more so that Obama does so in the face of an often immoral right. . .

Three thoughts come to mind..

Discretion is the better part of valor..

Always leave your opponent an escape route - which is sometimes the simple act of allowing the saving of face.. & sometimes the giving of enough rope to allow another to hang themselves..

& why is it that Americans seem to so admire confrontation & decry cooperation?

Just wonderin'..

Obama is working within a system which allows obvious destruction as an acceptable 'tactic'.. one he will not use. This limits his possible responses.. Sometimes doing no thing is the right thing.

enjoy
bobby

[Arizona Bay]

“If you wait by the river long enough, the bodies of your enemies will float by.”
― Sun Tzu

I believe he has studied Sun-tzu