The green thing

[Rum_Pirate]

Thought that (some of) you might find this an interesting point of view

In the line at the store, the check-out girl told an older man ahead of me that he should bring his own grocery bags because plastic bags weren't good for the environment.

The man apologised to her and explained: "We didn't have the green thing back in my day."

The girl responded: "That's our problem today. Your generation did NOT CARE enough to save our environment."

She was right -- our generation didn't have the green thing in its day.

Back then, we returned milk bottles, soft-drink bottles and beer bottles to the store.
The store sent them back to the factory to be washed and sterilised and refilled, so it could use the same bottles
over and over.
So they really were recycled.
But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

We walked up stairs, because we didn't have an escalator in every store and office building.
We walked to the grocery store and didn't climb into a 300-horsepower motor vehicle every time we had to go two blocks.
But she was right.
We didn't have the green thing in our day.

Back then, we washed the baby's nappies because we didn't have the throw-away kind.
We dried clothes on a line, not in an energy gobbling machine burning up 240 volts -- wind and solar power really did dry the clothes.
Kids got hand-me-down clothes from their brothers or sisters, not always brand-new clothing.
But that girl is right; we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

Back then, we had one TV, or radio, in the house -- not a TV in every room.
And the TV had a small screen the size of a handkerchief (remember them?), not a screen the size of the state of Alaska, Queensland or Alberta!

In the kitchen, we blended and stirred by hand because we didn't have electric machines to do everything for us.
When we packaged a fragile item to send in the mail, we used a wadded up old newspaper to cushion it, not Styrofoam or plastic bubble wrap.
Back then, we didn't fire up an engine and burn gasoline just to cut the lawn.
We used a push mower that ran on human power.
We exercised by working so we didn't need to go to a health club to run on treadmills that operate on electricity.
But she's right; we didn't have the green thing back then.

We drank from a bubbler fountain when we were thirsty instead of using a cup or a plastic bottle every time we had a drink of water.
We refilled writing pens with ink instead of buying a new pen, and we replaced the razor blades in a razor instead of throwing away the whole razor just because the blade got dull. But we didn't have the green thing back then.

Back then, people took the tram or a bus and kids rode their bikes to school or walked instead of turning their mums into a 24-hour taxi service.
We had one power-point in a room, not an entire bank of sockets to power a dozen appliances.
And we didn't need a computerised gadget to receive a signal beamed from satellites 2,000 miles out in space in order to find the nearest pizza joint.

But isn't it sad the current generation laments how wasteful we old folks were just because we didn't have the green thing back then?

[Paul Pless]

But isn't it sad the current generation laments how wasteful we old folks were just because we didn't have the green thing back then?

Its not sad, so much as it was largely an era of naivete and ignorance. Current generations have no such excuses. . .

Your 'older generation' did contribute to many notable environmental disasters. Just look to examples of the Cuyahoga River Fire or Lake Erie being dead, ddt, fishery collapses. smog, acid rain. . .

[S.V. Airlie]

As an employee, she had no right unless it's store policy.I understand what she was saying and had a point but. When I lived in the UK, and think it's still true, there was a charge on plastic bags. I thought that approach was a good one and wish we would implement such a policy here. Ten pence isn't much, but enough to change one's ways over time.I always used a canvas sack, no fee, when I shopped. Became second nature.

[Canoeyawl]

My grandpa used to put the drain oil on the road in front of the house. And they used to send me down to the hardware store to buy the white lead paste to mix up the house paint with. A ten year old up to his elbows mixing lead paint in a wash tub with a wooden paddle.
And he was just delighted when they started spraying DDT to control the mosquitos.
Nope, they didn't do "the green thing"

[varadero]

You have to use one of those re-usable grocery bags 480 times before it becomes greener than a disposable bag!

[S.V. Airlie]

add disposable diapers to your list.

[pefjr]

TV? you had TV? Did you ever drink water from a hose? We walked to school.... 5 miles.... in the snow..... barefoot... then 10 miles back home.

[S.V. Airlie]

up hill both ways to boot!

[David G]

up hill both ways to boot!

Startled Varmint - you really are a goofball. He already SAID there were no boots. He was barefoot <G>

[Dan McCosh]

War surplus bombers strafed us with DDT as children, and we played with mercury and powdered asbestos. There is a case for consumerism, notably foodstuffs, being much more environmentally friendly in the days of local organic farms, reusable bottles, paper packaging, etc. Industry was much more polluting, as were auto engines. Lack of sewage treatment was a disgrace. Think about a household furnace burning lump coal.

[S.V. Airlie]

Startled Varmint - you really are a goofball. He already SAID there were no boots. He was barefoot <G>

Have trouble interpreting the meaning there or are you one of those literal one's who take the printed word only at face value?Try opening a box once in a while.

[Rum_Pirate]

TV? you had TV? Did you ever drink water from a hose? We walked to school.... 5 miles.... in the snow..... barefoot... then 10 miles back home.

[skipper68]

YES, it was industry's then,(See Most Polluted lake in the USA. Onondaga Lake.) only now it is Mega conglomerations destroying the earth. A change from plastic bags wont replace the damage done to the earth and it's oceans, with the permission of the US and other country's governments. SEE:“CNN-Congressman Markey BP Carpet Bombed The Gulf With Toxic Corexit Dispersant.mp4″)! COREXIT is VERY “DEADLY” (SEE: “COREXIT KILLS.) I'm curious if it has anything to do with the dolphins and sea birds reported today on CNN-giant kills wash up on beaches in Peru. Same with replacing incandescent bulbs with poisonous mercury filled ones. Or, $100.00 a gallon corn ethanol, supposedly helping emissions, while using giant diesel machines to get it harvested and to market. This is progress?

[Plumbtex]

Snow? you had snow? What a luxury! We would hop from cactus to cactus to avoid burning our bare feet on the searing, jagged flintrock. School was for city kids, we were going to work. Our job was to chase the rattlers out of the fields to make it safe for the migrant workers.
Y'all was spoilt.

[BrianW]

We walked to school.... 5 miles.... in the snow..... barefoot... then 10 miles back home.

Parents tried to ditch you, everyday?

[S.V. Airlie]

Hansel did not leave any crumbs walking to school or the crows ate them Hansel had to walk 10 miles to get home as he just got lost.

[LeeG]

Thought that (some of) you might find this an interesting point of view

here's a point of view

[David W Pratt]

Plastic bags have a recycling rate of about 91%

[LeeG]

R.P. that c&p must be a total fabrication given the set-up. What is the point of view that you wish to impart?

[Rum_Pirate]

R.P. that c&p must be a total fabrication given the set-up. What is the point of view that you wish to impart?

I am not imparting any view.

Do I have to have one and impart it?

I just thought that (some of) you might find this an interesting point of view.

[LeeG]

Not really a point of view, more of a contrived straw argument comparing youthful arrogance and presumption of aged wisdom.

[Rum_Pirate]

Not really a point of view, more of a contrived straw argument comparing youthful arrogance and presumption of aged wisdom.

Your observation/conclusion is appreciated.

[Paul Pless]

I am not imparting any view.

And Rum Pirate goes off 'Aw Shucks' on us. . .

[Rum_Pirate]

And Rum Pirate goes off 'Aw Shucks' on us. . .

[PeterSibley]

You have to use one of those re-usable grocery bags 480 times before it becomes greener than a disposable bag!

Do you have a reference for that?

[Captain Intrepid]

Thought that (some of) you might find this an interesting point of view

Gotta love it when Baby Boomers try to blame the troubles of the world on anyone but themselves.

[Canoeyawl]

Plastic bag facts

• Approx. 380 billion plastic bags are used in the United States every year. That’s more than 1,200 bags per US resident, per year.
• Approx. 100 billion of the 380 billion are plastic shopping bags.
• An estimated 12 million barrels of oil is required to make that many plastic bags.
• Only 1 to 2% of plastic bags in the USA end up getting recycled.
• Thousands of marine animals and more than 1 million birds die each year as a result of plastic pollution.
• The United Nations Environment Programme estimates that there are 46,000 pieces of plastic litter floating in every square mile of ocean.
• Plastic bags are often mistakenly ingested by animals, clogging their intestines which results in death by starvation. Other animals or birds become entangled in plastic bags and drown or can’t fly as a result.
• Even when they photo-degrade in landfill, the plastic from single-use bags never goes away, and toxic particles can enter the food chain when they are ingested by unsuspecting animals.
• Greenpeace says that at least 267 marine species are known to have suffered from getting entangled in or ingesting marine debris. Nearly 90% of that debris is plastic.
• Americans consume more than 10 billion paper bags per year. Approximately 14 million trees are cut down every year for paper bag production.
• Most of the pulp used for paper shopping bags is virgin pulp, as it is considered stronger.
• Paper production requires hundreds of thousands of gallons of water as well as toxic chemicals like sulphurous acid, which can lead to acid rain and water pollution.
• link

[LeeG]

But CanoeYawl the issue isn't plastic bags, oil or pollution. It's sharing cartoon depictions of reality. Here's mine

[Osborne Russell]

Thought that (some of) you might find this an interesting point of view [isn't it sad the current generation laments how wasteful we old folks were just because we didn't have the green thing back then? ]

You'd have to be an awful moran to find it more than imbecilic. "Just because . . . " Duh. What awful right wing orifice did you draw this from?

[Canoeyawl]

But CanoeYawl the issue isn't plastic bags, oil or pollution. It's sharing cartoon depictions of reality. Here's mine

Some people are really going to vote for that guy...

[brad9798]

Although R_P used a C&P ... most of that C&P is correct ...

IF we could use those old philosophies with what we do/know now ... imagine the how much BETTER we could do.

Seriously.

B

[LeeG]

No problem Brad, lets reduce car ownership per capita back to when my dad was a kid. I wonder what the number of personal vehicles per population was in 1930?

[Meli]

Nothing has changed really. Back then people were poor and recycled.
Today people are richer, and recycle.

Industry too hasn't voluntarily change, they just get fines.

Brad and the Pirate do have a point. Saving plastic bags really does bugger all to reduce consumption, but we can feel warm and fuzzy OH and my dad used to lag the pipes with that fluffy asbestos stuff :EEEEK

[varadero]

Do you have a reference for that?

It was on a radio documentry the other day, also mentioned was the increase in small garbage bag purchaces because the of lack of recyclable shopping bags. The other interesting issue was the recomendation to wash the re usable bags every week at 60 C due to the incidence of food poisoning from meat purchases.

[varadero]

Do you have a reference for that?

Wikipedia is YOUR freind.

[edit] Research

The accelerating volume of reusable bags being imported and resold, along with the 2008 Wall Street Journal article, An Inconvenient Bag, that documented that only 10% of bags are actually being reused ^[8] raise statistical questions about their effectiveness and the possibility that these heavier bags have become the new disposable bag. The 2004-2008 Chinese import numbers were enough sell or give away to each family of four in America with more than 21.2 bags over the just the past five years. More directly in light of the 2004 US International Trade Commission Study, Polyethylene Retail Carrier Bags from China, Malaysia, and Thailand,^[9] that reported the total annual retail carrier bag consumption is the United States at 97 billion bags annually, the 504 million bags imported from China in 2008 offset just 9.7 billion retail carrier bags (10% of total as reported by the Wall Street Journal) which translated to each reusable bag on average only offset just 19.5 retail carrier bags during its lifespan. Although reusable bags are capable of offsetting more, it is likely that due to lack of use, increased free distribution of these heavier bags, commercialization and commoditization that they are becoming a disposable product with a limited lifespan.
In 2009, Walmart Stores proposed turning three California stores in to reusable bag only stores.^[10] Concurrently, Walmart was prepared to introduce a $0.15 reusable bag. On 23 October 2009 Walmart abandoned plans to remove carrier bags but they continued to introduce the new lower cost bags. In contrast to previous bags sold at $0.99 and $0.50 these lower cost bags may reduce price incentive to reuse these heavy bags.
[edit] Food safety

Most reusable bag shoppers do not wash their bags once they return home and the bags may be leading to food poisoning according to Dr. Richard Summerbell, research director at Toronto-based Sporometrics and former chief of medical mycology for the Ontario Ministry of Health.^[11] Because of their repeated exposure to raw meats and vegetable there is an increased risk of foodborne illness. A 2008 study of bags, sponsored by the Environmental and Plastics Industry Council of Canada, found mold and bacterial levels in one reusable bag to be 300% greater than the levels that would be considered safe in drinking water.^[12][13] The study does not differentiate between non-hemp bags and hemp bags, which have natural antimildew and antimicrobial properties.^[14]
A 2010 joint University of Arizona and Limo Loma University study (sponsored by the American Chemistry Council, a trade group that advocates on behalf of disposable plastic bag manufacturers) the found that "Reusable grocery bags can be a breeding ground for dangerous foodborne bacteria and pose a serious risk to public health".^[15] The study found that 97% of users did not wash them and that greater than 50% of the 84 bags contained coliform (a bacteria found in fecal material), while E. coli was found in 12% of the bags.^[16] The study made the following recommendations:

1. States should consider requiring printed instructions on reusable bags indicating they need to cleaned or bleached between uses.
2. State and local governments should invest in a public education campaign to alert the public about risk and prevention.
3. When using reusable bags, consumers should be careful to separate raw foods from other food products.
4. Consumers should not use reusable food bags for other purposes such as carrying books or gym clothes.
5. Consumers should not store meat or produce in the trunks of their cars because the higher temperature promotes growth of bacteria, which can contaminate reusable bags.

[Keith Wilson]

The food safety thing is 99.99% bogus IMHO. Note that there's no data at all on actual cases of food poisoning; absolutely nothing. Minuscule risk, trying to scare people, all the hallmarks of something put out by those selling plastic bags. The bit about not being reused, sure, that makes sense. They're probably not as "green as all that; more symbolic than anything.

A brief realistic look at history will show that "the green thing" is indeed a fairly recent invention - and not because of small things like recycling newspapers or reusable bags. Look up the Monongahela river fire, the Donora PA smog of 1948 that killed 20 people (SO2 emissions from a US steel plant), emissions from any car built in 1955, levels of air and water pollution in any industrialized area pre-1970s. The point of the quote: that we don't need all those regulations and gummint stuff, we did fine in the old days without any of it - is a total flaming LIE. How soon we forget.

[PeterSibley]

Well thanks Varadero, I've learned not to store raw meat in a reusable bag .Who'd a thunk it ?
I have a dozen of the things and use them every week and have done for the last 4 years. They go in the wash occasionally , not often enough but I DO avoid raw meat .

[hanleyclifford]

We cruisers use those grocery bags for trash bags on the boat. Does that count as recycling?

[brad9798]

NO hanleyclifford ... that is not recycling ... that is re-USING!


LEEG- HOW many cars are in your family?

[varadero]

Well thanks Varadero, I've learned not to store raw meat in a reusable bag .Who'd a thunk it ?
I have a dozen of the things and use them every week and have done for the last 4 years. They go in the wash occasionally , not often enough but I DO avoid raw meat .

I love them I have about 30 of the things. I pick them up from the dumpster all the time. I use them for firewood, for storing paperbacks, carying tools, filing paperwork, storing kids toys, organising stuff in the boot (trunk) of the car etc. etc. But I still miss the free bags from the supermarket, I never wasted one, they were used for packed lunches 3 daily, bin bags in the bathrooms and bedrooms, potato and veg peelings, nappy disposal, dog poo disposal, etc. etc.
I still find about 5 times a day I am looking for one. I now buy one for 30 centimos for my meat twice a week.

[LeeG]

NO hanleyclifford ... that is not recycling ... that is re-USING!


LEEG- HOW many cars are in your family?

one between two people. My daughters don't live with me anymore and they each have one. I took your comment "we could use those old philosophies.." to mean "we" as in our country needs to live within our means. One of the ways were are not is an unsustainable level of petrol consumption given the rising cost of oil and the transfer of wealth to oil exporting countries when we need that money here to retire and transform low efficiency economy to a higher efficiency one. The auto as a fashion item reflects a civilization with wealth to waste. That time is past.

[2MeterTroll]

I would have to say she's a product of her time if this was this day and age. she was probably born in the 80's, she would not know much history cause all the budgets for and in schools have been cut to the quick, her job skills would be minimal due to the same. then there is the fact she is right just not accurate. the children of the depression generation tend to over consume. in many ways its because of the story of the depression. Even those who lived through the depression tended to forget the desperation and frugalness after.
The chemical companies loved to do big flashy stuff to show how great they where while poisoning everything. I would still use white lead if i could get it, It's not a food so dont eat it. Asbestos works in the proper use , (most of us older folks grew up with it all around) those a bit younger where around when asbestos dust was every where cause folks where ripping it out.

now we get into cars and trucks and i do have to say; while i love the looks of some of the old cars most of them where not clean, leak-less,or efficient. it also seems every one and there brother had a car or two or three, not bad but the fuel used was amazing. The worst thing the boomers did was the 80's instead of learning a lesson from the 70's, the 80's where the age of almost total blindness to any thing other than shopping and shiny. Thats two generations, this generation is hardly better, the total amount of electronic junk that cannot be recycled is amazing. like the older generation the younger is unaware of what it is polluting or how they are polluting it. the cloth bags are nice mostly cause i dont have garbage to deal with. since i can make them from a good canvass they will last practically forever.

worst thing about this little snippet is that it probably didnt happen and all it shows is how bad our education system is.