Opressed Indians, How did Norm miss this one

[S.V. Airlie]

better suited for the seat Exactly wardd, and character plays a part in her suitability. If she was not truthful about her heritage and if she exploited her heritage to possibly be hired, see post 135, and the university also exploited her heritage to boost the representation of minorities at the university, what is to say she doesn't do something similar in congress? I don't want that in congress. We have enough officials that exploit their positions already.

[bobbys]

Sorry, but YOU don't get to set the standard for someone else's beliefs. She believed she was a descendant of Native Americans, and that's really all there is to this entire ridiculous story. You're welcome to believe that she's NOT a descendant of native americans, but then again, you don't have any proof of that, either.... should I be able to demand that YOU show evidence, too?

Crazy. Insane. Just truly trivial partisan pap.

The Standard is a Tribal card or her being on the rolls...

[S.V. Airlie]

The break in at the watergate was trivial as well. Want to know what happened afterwards?

[wardd]

better suited for the seat Exactly wardd, and character plays a part in her suitability. If she was not truthful about her heritage and if she exploited her heritage to possibly be hired, see post 135, and the university also exploited her heritage to boost the representation of minorities at the university, what is to say she doesn't do something similar in congress? I don't want that in congress. We have enough officials that exploit their positions already.

and his hypocracy about obama care?

i don't want that in congress

[bobbys]

Your question can't be answered because it is irrational. Why does she have to demonstrate that she 'connected' with her native american roots? Is there some rule or law that says that she has to?



And you have continued to fail to explain why she was under any obligation to 'connect' to her roots. I have Ashkenazi Jewish roots.... but I'm an agnostic, and don't practice the cultural traditions of my heritage. Does this mean that I can't claim to have Ashkenazi Jewish roots?

Your argument amounts to the same damn thing.

.

My Great grandfather was named Klien and strong rumor was he was Jewish.

However No Jew would consider me Jewish, The Germans would not have taken me away for that and I have no right of return to Israel..

So defending her is what is Irrational and your argument also..

Your Name and Family name is Bernstein, You went to Synagogue as your parents and theirs.

EW is not named CHER or Pocahontas nor has ever even visited the Tribe.

Fact is she used this and now cannot back it up and is Embarrassing the Party., Her campaign should have checked this first, Come on how basic is that? Now you want to blame others for their own mistakes?

[Ian McColgin]

Small aside - as I mentioned in another thread, I don't consider Sen Brown utilizing a benefit of ObamaCare while claiming to work for its repeal as hypocrasy any more than it's hypocrasy for a person of wealth to pay the correct tax as determined by our byzantine tax code while arguing that the code should be simplified in a way that puts more tax on the wealthy. You play by the rules while you try to change them. Mostly.

The issue of this thread is Ms Warren's having a Cherokee great grandmother and her not having used that to claim minority status for the purpose of college or law school admissions or to gain any of the professorships she held.

[wardd]

Small aside - as I mentioned in another thread, I don't consider Sen Brown utilizing a benefit of ObamaCare while claiming to work for its repeal as hypocrasy any more than it's hypocrasy for a person of wealth to pay the correct tax as determined by our byzantine tax code while arguing that the code should be simplified in a way that puts more tax on the wealthy. You play by the rules while you try to change them. Mostly.

The issue of this thread is Ms Warren's having a Cherokee great grandmother and her not having used that to claim minority status for the purpose of college or law school admissions or to gain any of the professorships she held.

you don't understand, had she wanted to she could have, that is what has them all riled up and the fact that she didn't has them all riled up too

dammit, dems are supposed to play by the rep script

it's like when the right says obama is weak on national security and he goes and does something really really cleaver, gosh darn it that's cheating

[S.V. Airlie]

bobbys being jewish has nothin to do with dad, grandad, or ggrandad. It's mom, grandmom, or ggrandmom who passes down the right to be called or referred to as being jewish..I may have Jewish blood through through a Jewish father I suppose, if he was Jewish.If if he wasn't jewish, but the offspring has a Jewish mother voila.

[S.V. Airlie]

and his hypocracy about obama care?

i don't want that in congress

as usual, deflection.

[wardd]

as usual, deflection.

as i said this thread wouldn't exist if she wasn't running against brown

do pay attention

[ccmanuals]

You mean this guy?

[S.V. Airlie]

as i said this thread wouldn't exist if she wasn't running against brown

do pay attention

But She IS running so, the thread exists wardd.Deal with it. If Brown had a sim issue about his heritage, would you not post about it? seriously if there was an issue about Brown, you'd be on it. Afterall, he only is mentioned because he's running against warren. as she is running, it's fair game.

[ccmanuals]

Wardd, don't bother.

[bobbys]

Small aside - as I mentioned in another thread, I don't consider Sen Brown utilizing a benefit of ObamaCare while claiming to work for its repeal as hypocrasy any more than it's hypocrasy for a person of wealth to pay the correct tax as determined by our byzantine tax code while arguing that the code should be simplified in a way that puts more tax on the wealthy. You play by the rules while you try to change them. Mostly.

The issue of this thread is Ms Warren's having a Cherokee great grandmother and her not having used that to claim minority status for the purpose of college or law school admissions or to gain any of the professorships she held.

.

In post 2 you also said Great grandmother as you do now.

However it was said a few times its great great great grandmother and even shown here.

Elizabeth Warren is under fire for reports she claimed status as a minority lawyer based on a far-back blood connection to the Cherokee line.The Boston Globe reported that the Democratic candidate challenger to Scott Brown in the Senate race in Massachusetts self-identified as a minority from 1986 to 1995, though she has no recent Native American family.Genealogist at the New England Historic Genealogical Society Chris Child set out to hunt down Warren’s ancestry last Thursday. In less than a week, he discovered documents citing an 1894 marriage record that lists Warren’s great-great-great grandmother, O. C. Sarah Smith as Cherokee, meaning that Warren is 1/32^nd .

There are 3 greats yet you twice only wrote one.?

Now you could have missed it but having read your writings its a bit of a stretch to think you did..

Why is this Ian?

[wardd]

But She IS running so, the thread exists wardd.Deal with it. If Brown had a sim issue about his heritage, would you not post about it? seriously if there was an issue about Brown, you'd be on it. Afterall, he only is mentioned because he's running against warren. as she is running, it's fair game.

it's not about ethnicity, it's about character

[bobbys]

and his hypocracy about obama care?

i don't want that in congress

.

Obama care?

Norm does not like it when people go off topic.

Or at least on his threads.

By the way im to the right of Rush but even i Capitalize Obama

[S.V. Airlie]

exactly.. If this heritage issue is false, she is not demonstrating much character. Exactly what I said on several posts a long while back on this thread. Keep up...

[S.V. Airlie]

Exactly.. If this heritage thing that she has used to her benefit, apparently, proves to be false, it says a lot about character doesn't it?

[wardd]

exactly.. If this heritage issue is false, she is not demonstrating much character. Exactly what I said on several posts a long while back on this thread. Keep up...

unexactly

[Bob Smalser]

Her "allies" are bailing out on Warren like fleas off a corpse.

http://bostonherald.com/news/columni...eid=1061129153

Some national political experts had much stronger words for Warren’s conflicting explanations about why she listed herself as a minority in university directories.

“This takes her biography into a bizarre dimension,” said Larry Sabato, director of the University of Virginia Center for Politics. “It has derailed the effort to define Warren in a voter-friendly way.”

Sabato also said that Warren’s claim that she didn’t list herself as a minority to gain an employment advantage is not believable.

“This is what happens when candidates don’t tell the truth,” he said. “It’s pretty obvious she was using (the minority listing) for career advancement.”

Elizabeth Warren’s stumbling efforts to douse the firestorm surrounding her claims of being a Native American minority have raised concerns among local and national Democrats who are questioning her campaign’s competence.

“There’s nobody watching this that doesn’t think she’s in big trouble,” one well-known Massachusetts Democrat said.

[S.V. Airlie]

Her "allies" are bailing out on Warren like fleas off a corpse.

http://bostonherald.com/news/columni...eid=1061129153

Yup and wardd is busy walking the decks of the Titanic. Still figures it's going to stay floating.

[S.V. Airlie]

Wardd, don't bother.

Yup, lose gracefully.

[Bob Smalser]

Yup and wardd is busy walking the decks of the Titanic. Still figures it's going to stay floating.

The classic Dem epitaph:

"She died at age 63, but with a little help from her friends, continued voting Democratic until age 89."

[Ian McColgin]

"Why is this Ian?" [#214]

Because I was wrong.

It's mathematically obvious that 1/32nd means three greats to get back to "pure blood". I was noting how Ms Warren learned from her grandparents how they claimed Native American ancestry (grandmother would have been 1/8th) and conflated the two. Which was an easy mistake for me to make since Warren's Native American ancestor dates from the 1890s and my own grandmother married in 1895 and came to Oklahoma in 1901.

Native American blood's far from rare in Oklahoma. One of my aunts (married to Dad's oldest brother before Dad was born) was full Cherokee but she and the family hid it. Dad didn't know, her children didn't know, until about twenty years ago.

So I apologize for mis-stating the number of greats.

[S.V. Airlie]

unexactly

What kind of dictionary are you using?

[ccmanuals]

Bob, I sense from your posts you may have become an angry old solider. That's no way to enjoy your retirement.

[bobbys]

"Why is this Ian?" [#214]

Because I was wrong.

It's mathematically obvious that 1/32nd means three greats to get back to "pure blood". I was noting how Ms Warren learned from her grandparents how they claimed Native American ancestry (grandmother would have been 1/8th) and conflated the two. Which was an easy mistake for me to make since Warren's Native American ancestor dates from the 1890s and my own grandmother married in 1895 and came to Oklahoma in 1901.

Native American blood's far from rare in Oklahoma. One of my aunts (married to Dad's oldest brother before Dad was born) was full Cherokee but she and the family hid it. Dad didn't know, her children didn't know, until about twenty years ago.

So I apologize for mis-stating the number of greats.

.

Thank you Ian .

I could learn from you about admitting when im wrong sept im so dang stubborn!

[S.V. Airlie]

I can't speak for bob. However so many here are always harping on the facts from the libs, he has given facts, many of them, and basically no lib will accept them. Blatant hypocrisy on the lib side..

[wardd]

I can't speak for bob. However so many here are always harping on the facts from the libs, he has given facts, many of them, and basically no lib will accept them. Blatant hypocrisy on the lib side..

it seems facts have nothing to do with elections

[Ian McColgin]

Facts like no college or law school applications that claim minority status?

Or do you mean the fact that no employment application claimed minority status?

[S.V. Airlie]

From the libs, you are right. regarding this issue,facts are irrelevent to you. About the election itself which hasn't taken place, it goes by the number of votes. The numbers are fact as long as the votes are correctly counted. Otherwise, you are making no sense.

[S.V. Airlie]

Facts like no college or law school applications that claim minority status?

Or do you mean the fact that no employment application claimed minority status?

Ian there is nothing available that states on her applications whether she wrote NAmerican ethnicity or not.If she releases them, maybe.AS is, where it appears to have counted she did.

[Bob Smalser]

Bob, I sense from your posts you may have become an angry old solider. That's no way to enjoy your retirement.

Not at all. I enjoy the hell out of pulling your chains.

[Donn]

230+ replies to this silly thread, and a bunch of sea-lawyers on each side presenting their 'facts' as if it'll make a difference.

The 'fact' of this matter is if this woman admitted, publicly, she did what the right is saying, for the reasons the right is saying, the liberals in Massachusetts would vote for her anyway.

It just amazes me how many of you can't find anything better to do on a lovely spring day.

[Ian McColgin]

The right is saying - more of them here as in print being blatantly false is bad but making others believe what's false without actually saying it is good - that she used a claim of minority status for college and law school admissions and for obtaining her various professorships. This of course has temporality problems since the law professor directory where she did claim that she has Native American ancestry came out after she had completed college, law school and the first of her professorships.

But what's time matter?

Were all these righties to double check EO and AA laws and regulations they would already know that having Native American ancestry is not counted as a racial minority in the same way as being black or asian or hispanic. Membership in a federally recognized tribe does count, even though many tribal members have less "tribal blood" than Ms Warren's 1/32. Ms Warren is not a member of any recognized tribe.

I find it charming that our righties are making a great, great, great many mistakes here.

[S.V. Airlie]

The traditional definition of race and ethnicity is related to biological and sociological factors respectively. Racerefers to a person's physical appearance, such as skin color, eye color, hair color, bone/jaw structure etc.Ethnicity, on the other hand, relates to cultural factors such as nationality, culture, ancestry, language and beliefs. umm. I just can't figure out the spin Ian. She is using physical characteristics to prove her ethnicity. The way or what she uses to explain her ancestry seems to be composed of race and ethnicity. regarding minority status, she is a minority.
regarding the first paragraph, I disagree that this is what the righties actually think. About admissions applications, unless you have copies, I don't know what she put in the ethnicity square. I never came out saying anything more or less about them.

[SamSam]

Ian there is nothing available that states on her applications whether she wrote NAmerican ethnicity or not.If she releases them, maybe.AS is, where it appears to have counted she did.

[wardd]

yes he is

[Ian McColgin]

Time, Jamie, time. She was out of law school and a prof before the first time she put down the Native American minority bit in the 1985 American Law Schools desk book, which is a directory of profs in american law schools. She stopped bothering to list in 1995. A year later is when, in response to a critical article in the Harvard Crimson, the Harvard Law School touted her as their official minority due to being Native American, which was pointless since that category does not fill any federal category and they could not make that claim on their filings with EEOC (if they have any, that I don't know).

Even the Boston Herald, and every news (not opinion) article you can find, does not claim that Ms Warren "used" minority status for her gain. The charge is that she let HLS use her for their propaganda (but not material) gain.

[Bob Smalser]

Time, Jamie, time. She was out of law school and a prof before the first time she put down the Native American minority bit in the 1985 American Law Schools desk book, which is a directory of profs in american law schools. She stopped bothering to list in 1995. A year later is when, in response to a critical article in the Harvard Crimson, the Harvard Law School touted her as their official minority due to being Native American, which was pointless since that category does not fill any federal category and they could not make that claim on their filings with EEOC (if they have any, that I don't know).

Even the Boston Herald, and every news (not opinion) article you can find, does not claim that Ms Warren "used" minority status for her gain. The charge is that she let HLS use her for their propaganda (but not material) gain.

Except all your backpedaling technicalities don't matter. She checked the box that she was a minority when she was clearly not. And kept doing so for over 10 years. No sane, mature, responsible adult uses family rumors as professional credentials without checking them out first, which only happened last week. Mysteriously she stopped allowing these false claims when she reached the pinnacle of her career.

This is real simple. She was claiming and/or allowing other people to claim she was something she was not. Which places her at zero on the integrity scale. And this makes me wonder about yours.

[wardd]

Except your backpedaling technicalities don't matter. She checked the box that she was a minority when she was clearly not. And kept doing so for over 10 years. No sane, mature adult with an integrity bone uses family rumors as professional credentials without checking them out first, which only happened last week. Mysteriously she stopped allowing these false claims when she reached the pinnacle of her career.

This is real simple. She was claiming and/or allowing other people to claim she was something she was not. Which places her at zero on the integrity scale. And makes me wonder about yours.

are you incensed about rubio's embellishment of his family fleeing castro's cuba?

[Ian McColgin]

Yes Bob, at last we agree. She is 1/32 Native American and thought on that basis that she could check the minority box on an unofficial national listing of law professors. I happen to agree that her Native American ancestry does not qualify her as a "minority" in the legal sense of the term. While the directory is not a legal document and she could not use it to her direct benefit, we've seen how a year after she stopped bothering with it HLS did use it in an extra-legal controversy. She really should not have listed. I would not have. While I don't think much of it, I can see folk enjoying a gotcha moment.

[Ian McColgin]

Actually, I'm not all that reved about Rubio either. Stuff that frosts me is stuff like Sen Blumenthal saying he was a Vietnam veteran rather than the truthful Vietnam-era veteran.

[wardd]

Sen. Marco Rubio, a Tea Party favorite frequently mentioned as a possible GOP vice presidential pick, is pushing back on a story in The Washington Post that says he embellished the facts about his family's departure from Cuba.



Rubio issued the following statement about the Post story, which the Florida Republican says contains false allegations:




"To suggest my family's story is embellished for political gain is outrageous. The dates I have given regarding my family's history have always been based on my parents' recollections of events that occurred over 55 years ago and which were relayed to me by them more than two decades after they happened. I was not made aware of the exact dates until very recently."




The Washington Post story, posted online Thursday afternoon, said Rubio "frequently repeated" that his family fled Cuba after Fidel Castro took power in 1959.




The newspaper reviewed documents, including the naturalization papers of Rubio's parents, showing that the Rubio family arrived in the United States in May 1956 -- well before Castro overthrew the Cuban government and declared the island a socialist state in 1961. Castro was Cuba's president until 2008, when he ceded power to his brother.

...

[wardd]

Actually, I'm not all that reved about Rubio either. Stuff that frosts me is stuff like Sen Blumenthal saying he was a Vietnam veteran rather than the truthful Vietnam-era veteran.

but we need to keep equal standards

[Bob Smalser]

are you incensed about rubio's embellishment of his family fleeing castro's cuba?

This spose to be some sort of juvenile "gotcha" to flush out the "far-right birther"?

I don't favor Rubio for a number of reasons, self-serving embellishments being only one.

You guys can spare me the birther crap. Another baseless smear from those who don't have an argument.

[wardd]

This spose to be some sort of juvenile "gotcha" to flush out the "far-right birther"?

I don't favor Rubio for a number of reasons, self-serving embellishments being only one.

You guys can spare me the birther crap. Another baseless smear from those who don't have an argument.

my argument is is this all you got out of a lifetime of her work?

so she may not be perfect but this hardly rises to high crimes and misdemeanors

[Bob Smalser]

so she may not be perfect but this hardly rises to high crimes and misdemeanors

I dunno where you been all your life, but if you don't have personal integrity, you don't have anything.

And Warren is NOT 1/32 Cherokee! Not without verification. A hasty search over the weekend only found an 1894 rumor that a circa 1750 ancestor was some manner of Cherokee.

Like Rubio also failed to do, Warren shoulda checked this information for accuracy before using it. It's easy enough to do. That's how professional genealogists make their living.

[wardd]

I dunno where you been all your life, but if you don't have personal integrity, you don't have anything.

And Warren is NOT 1/32 Cherokee! Not without verification. A hasty search over the weekend only found an 1894 rumor that a circa 1750 ancestor was some manner of Cherokee.

Like Rubio also failed to do, Warren shoulda checked this information for accuracy before using it. It's easy enough to do. That's how professional genealogists make their living.

so for what other reasons don't you like her?

[purri]

Around here you have to be accepted by and have "made peace" with your language group by good works irrespective of some half baked whitefella regulations. It works.