Opressed Indians, How did Norm miss this one

[Glen Longino]

Ain't he a complex hombre?LMAO

[bobbys]

[Glen Longino]

Cher is mine!
Keep yer cotton pickin hands off...okay?

[purri]

I prefer Buffie St Marie and neighbours, Dunno abt Ms Sarkissian wearing men's stuff but around here it would be dealt with.

[Bob Smalser]

George Zimmerman, the son of a Peruvian mestiza, is the embodiment of endemic white racism and the reincarnation of Bull Connor, but Elizabeth Warren, the great-great-great-granddaughter of someone who might possibly have been listed as Cherokee on an application for a marriage license, is a heartwarming testimony to how minorities are shattering the glass ceiling in Harvard Yard. George Zimmerman, redneck; Elizabeth Warren, redskin. Under the Third Reich’s Nuremberg Laws, Ms. Warren would have been classified as Aryan and Mr. Zimmerman as non-Aryan. Now it’s the other way round.

Progress!

Hilarious.

[Concordia 33]

Yes Bob, at last we agree. She is 1/32 Native American and thought on that basis that she could check the minority box on an unofficial national listing of law professors. I happen to agree that her Native American ancestry does not qualify her as a "minority" in the legal sense of the term. While the directory is not a legal document and she could not use it to her direct benefit, we've seen how a year after she stopped bothering with it HLS did use it in an extra-legal controversy. She really should not have listed. I would not have. While I don't think much of it, I can see folk enjoying a gotcha moment.

Ian...
I am not looking for a gotcha moment and do not see it as an moment to enjoy or to wring my hands. I see it more as a parity issue as there are numerous threads in the bilge where every word said by a conservative or said at the expense of a conservative are amplified while the converse is often ridiculed. I appreciate your words here, and if Warren or her campaign spokesman had said similar I think the whole thing would have been put to rest pretty quickly.

[wardd]

Ian...
I am not looking for a gotcha moment and do not see it as an moment to enjoy or to wring my hands. I see it more as a parity issue as there are numerous threads in the bilge where every word said by a conservative or said at the expense of a conservative are amplified while the converse is often ridiculed. I appreciate your words here, and if Warren or her campaign spokesman had said similar I think the whole thing would have been put to rest pretty quickly.

no it wouldn't, the right will drive this for all the mileage they can

[Ian McColgin]

Brown's campaign manager is calling for an investigation.

[SamSam]

George Zimmerman, the son of a Peruvian mestiza, is the embodiment of endemic white racism and the reincarnation of Bull Connor, but Elizabeth Warren, the great-great-great-granddaughter of someone who might possibly have been listed as Cherokee on an application for a marriage license, is a heartwarming testimony to how minorities are shattering the glass ceiling in Harvard Yard. George Zimmerman, redneck; Elizabeth Warren, redskin. Under the Third Reich’s Nuremberg Laws, Ms. Warren would have been classified as Aryan and Mr. Zimmerman as non-Aryan. Now it’s the other way round.

Progress!

So... things were better during the Third Reich?

[Ian McColgin]

I love it when righties pontificate about race. They get it so wrong. Zimmerman's mother according to all news sources that actually track her heritage, is of entirely European descent. She is not a "mestiza". In the common use and common misspelling here, Zimmerman, who calls himself "hispanic" could still not be called a mezito because his "racial" heritage is all European, so far as is known no Inca or other Native Andean blood.

Within what's gotten to be a generalized "hispanic" designation there's a huge spread of ethnicities and blood lines, and an equally huge spread of socioeconomic statuses and issues. In Peru, for example, people of African descent report some very serious discrimination inflicted on them by those of European descent. The claim that a person is not, cannot be racist because he or she is "hispanic" is even more obviously false than the claim that a black cannot be racist.

What is clear is that Zimmerman, like Ms Warren, has not experienced being the butt of racial discrimination. Ms Warren wanted to get more contact with others who shared some Native American heritage. Zimmerman wants to use a newly minted "minority" claim to excuse at least part of his killing a black kid.

[S.V. Airlie]

Well, I don't keep track. I'd like to see what you cite about his family for curiosity's sake and for no other reason.Regarding your last statement, I'd call it bunk in reference to Ms Warren, but likely true with Zimmerman.

[Ian McColgin]

To find out about Zimmerman's mother, google stuff like 'Zimmerman's mother', 'Zimmerman's peruvian mother', etc. Then weed out all the blogs and blurbs that are devoid of any actual contact with her. Or, don't bother and just look at his cheekbones. HehHehHeh.

[Y Bar Ranch]

I would just like to say that I have as much or more Cherokee in me than Ms Warren does (my Mom grew up in Tennessee Appalachia), and I am trying to figure out how to parlay it into opening a casino in my basement.

[S.V. Airlie]

[Ian McColgin]

You could do what Ms Warren has not done - apply for membership in one of the Nations. Our Mashpee-Wamponoags found the right politically connected corrupt lobbiests to grease the way to tribal status and they might give you a referral . . .

[S.V. Airlie]

Guess where this person come from? Peru? No. Cherokee? No.High cheek bones?ummmm.

[Ian McColgin]

The children of Reuben, Issachar, Zebulun, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Ephraim, Simon, and Manasseh sure got around, spreading those cheekbones. . . .

[S.V. Airlie]

Close enough. Could Ms Warren have inherited them?Ian... I read about Zimmerman's heritage. A lot of blogs but some quotes from Reuters. If you believe Reuters.

[Y Bar Ranch]

Mashpee-Wamponoags

I wouldn't wear their scalps on my wampum belt.

[ccmanuals]

Close enough. Could Ms Warren have inherited them?Ian... I read about Zimmerman's heritage. A lot of blogs but some quotes from Reuters. If you believe Reuters.

you believe blogs over reuters?

[Ian McColgin]

Reuters corrects reporting errors. So many blogs are like Palin explaining that Paul Revere really was warning the British.

[ccmanuals]

I recently heard a pundit refer to Palin as that guy who graduated from High School 6 years ago but is still hanging around the HS parking lot trying to convince the students how cool his ride is.

[ccmanuals]

I recently heard a pundit refer to Palin as that guy who graduated from High School 6 years ago but is still hanging around the HS parking lot trying to convince the students how cool his ride is.

(take a deep breath Bobby's. This is supposed to be funny).

[S.V. Airlie]

you believe blogs over reuters?

Do you have a reading problem? The bog mentioned quotes Reuters which is a bit different than quoting the bog itself.

[ccmanuals]

Do you have a reading problem? The bog mentioned quotes Reuters which is a bit different than quoting the bog itself.

Just a comprehension problem when it comes to some of your posts which is why I asked for clarification.

[S.V. Airlie]

Close enough. Could Ms Warren have inherited them?Ian... I read about Zimmerman's heritage. A lot of blogs but some quotes from Reuters. If you believe Reuters.

So, this post was not understood. WOW. I basically asked Ian if he would accept Reuters,

[bobbys]

(take a deep breath Bobby's. This is supposed to be funny).

.

LOL good thing i almost went trew da roof!

[Concordia 33]

Ms Warren wanted to get more contact with others who shared some Native American heritage. Zimmerman wants to use a newly minted "minority" claim to excuse at least part of his killing a black kid.

Besides listing herself as a minority in a law directory for 9 years, exactly how did she try to contact others who shared some native American Heritage? Unless she has recently responded to this question, I haven't heard anything about what else she has done. If the Law directory was all she did, it makes it out to be a pretty lame excuse.

Then genealogists finally uncovered a great-great-great-grandmother who was listed as Cherokee on an electronic version of an old government record — which, if accurate, would make Warren 1/32nd Native American.

So why claim such a connection?

To score some free lunches, said Warren.

“I listed myself in the directory in the hopes that it might mean that I would be invited to a luncheon . . . with people who are like I am,” she said.(We’re not making this up!)

As for the much more likely explanation — that Warren was grasping a dubious affirmative-action hook to help her rise up the academic ladder — don’t even consider it.That’s sexist, says Warren.

“What does he think it takes for a woman to be qualified?” she piously asked after her GOP opponent, Sen. Scott Brown, raised just that issue.In fact, the flap just points up the dishonest essence of affirmative-action programs — and the ease with which they can be manipulated.Never mind that all of the law schools that hired Warren quickly released statements swearing that her so-called minority status had nothing to do with it.But, as blogger Ann Althouse notes, “What would you expect them to say?”

Such programs are designed to give members of “victimized” groups an unjustifiable leg up over equally — or even more — qualified applicants for the same job.And all on irrelevant qualifications — like a single ancestor five generations back.

Elizabeth Warren figured out pretty quickly how to game the system.

[Ian McColgin]

What would you expect the law schools to say? Righto. The absence of marks on an affirmative action plan is proof that they are very very subtle and sneaky. No wonder Brown's campaign has called for a formal investigation. The absence of paper does not mean that there was no covert AA. OhhhKaaay.

[Bob Smalser]

Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive. - Sir Walter Scott (Marmion, 1808)

In what may be the ultimate and cruelest irony, not only is it unlikely that Elizabeth Warren’s great-great-great grandmother was Cherokee, it turns out that Warren’s great-great-great grandfather was a member of a militia unit which participated in the round-up of the Cherokees in the prelude to the Trail of Tears.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/05...cherokee-saga/

Sen. Scott Brown (R-Mass.) is calling on Harvard Law Professor Elizabeth Warren, his Democratic challenger, to release all her past job applications and personnel records in order to settle her Native American heritage.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...s=rss_politics

[Vince Brennan]

This is an exCEPTionally silly thread.

[Bob Smalser]

“For two weeks, all of the limousine liberals and assorted pablum pukers in the lamestream media had a hook to hang their Big Lie on...

...the yarn from the Genealogical Society saying Granny was 1/32nd Cherokee. Now the Society is saying, hey, hold on, we just went with what was in the family newsletter.

After all, it dates back to the dim past ... all the way back to 2006.

The document, alluded to in a family newsletter found by the New England Historic Genealogical Society, was an application for a marriage license, not the license itself.

‘Neither the society nor the Globe has seen the primary document, whose existence has not been proven.’

It’s going to be difficult to prove the existence of that primary document, considering that the Logan County, Okla., clerk told the Herald’s Hillary Chabot on Monday that there was no such marriage application in 1894

Unless, of course, she wants to stick with her very believable story about her pappaw having ‘high cheekbones — like all the Indians do.’

And then of course there’s that other incontrovertible piece of evidence linking her to the Cherokee Nation — the fact that her first cousin from Muskogee edited the famous Indian cookbook, “Pow Wow Chow.”



http://bostonherald.com/news/columni...eid=1061131871

[Ian McColgin]

Notice how it's everyone except Warren making a deal. From then until now she always said it was oral family lore. It's others all hot and bothered about whether there's a document or not. From then till now she's not used her undocumented ancestry for any AA advantage. It's HLS using it and a Scott Brown trying to use it.

Keep it up, rightie Brownies. Sniggering avoidance of the issues may work in red states but it won't help here.

[Bob Smalser]

Figures. More craven apologies.

At absolute best case, she has zero judgment for not checking the family out before using it for professional purposes. That it went on all the way up the academic ladder implies a personal defect that alone disqualifies her.

Ar worst case, she's a lying fraud, cheating the system by claiming minority status she didn't deserve.

But apparently none of that means much in New England.

When Politico and Buzzfeed turn against a fellow lib, it's time to throw in the towel.

"Fordham piece called Warren Harvard Law's 'first woman of color'"

http://www.politico.com/blogs/burns-...an-123526.html

"7 Awful Moments From Elizabeth Warren's Native American Heritage Debacle"

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/7-...ens-native-ame

[wardd]

when your side is running a very flawed candidate you have to blow up any trivial thing you can find on the other person

[wardd]

Figures. More craven apologies.

At absolute best case, she has zero judgment for not checking the family out before using it for professional purposes. That it went on all the way up the academic ladder implies a personal defect that alone disqualifies her.

Ar worst case, she's a lying fraud, cheating the system by claiming minority status she didn't deserve.

But apparently none of that means much in New England.

you're wearing a hat, what are you hiding?

this deserves further investigation and embellishment

[bobbys]

How ironic is it to have a Democrat single handily destroy the affirmative action check boxes and make it irrelevant and have libs jump to her defense.

[Ian McColgin]

bobbys, by now you know that the Law School desk reference is not an affirmative action document, not a federal or state form, and cannot be used as such. The righties keep shifting around. Brown himself is carefully prevaricating along a line saying that he does not doubt Warren's qualifications, just her integrity. That's right up there with if people started asking Brown to prove his story of abuse at Camp Good News. It's a poignant tale. It got him votes for his "guts" in telling it. And to use the kind of cruddy line all the birthers used on Obama and now he's using on Warren, I have no reason to doubt that he believes it.

[bobbys]

So your saying if it was not valid enough for you she took the liberty of putting down Native American cause she could get away with it.?

Seems worse to me and she and her defenders just keep digging deeper

[Ian McColgin]

I am saying, bobbys, that you don't get a pass on fabricating more to this story than there is. The sniggering sniveling almost implications that Brown is using are having their effect in getting people like yourself and other rightie non-constituents to froth the falsehoods that at least Brown is too careful to actually say. You're falling for the birther approach that Brown is so desperately attempting to use.

Have fun. It's still just family lore, just as it's been known (had you but read anything about Warren) that she also has "Indian fighters" among her ancestors. This is not unlike most of us who come from patriotic families who rose to what they saw as their duty at the time. You may claim the luxury of a perfectly document ancestry withouot the blood of innocents staining the glove. Most of are not so blessed.

[Concordia 33]

Isn't it bad enough that Warren herself doesn't admit the error in judgement, why do all the people from the left jump to her defense too? The Globe clearly misstated her Cherokee connection and though they corrected the error, it was in the most invisible way possible - even they aren't defending her anymore. I'm not saying she is a bad person, but she needs to admit that she made a bad judgement to list herself as "minority", pick up the pieces of her campaign and move on. The more she stays on the "DL" on this issue, the worse it will get.

If Romney had done this, there would have been a dozen threads about his flawed character here in the bilge, and demands that he come clean. Why is it that the darling of the left escapes that same scrutiny?

[Norman Bernstein]

291 posts on this truly stupid and irrelevant story? That's gotta be a record.....

Nate Silver can explain why, however.....

It's Still Early

Nate Silver: "One of the reasons that campaign stories have been so trivial lately is because if one of the campaigns has an especially strong line of attack on their opponent, or a great piece of opposition research, it does not make a lot of sense to drop it now when most voters are not paying attention yet. It is still extremely early for a general election campaign. If the period after Labor Day qualifies as the pennant race, and the summer of the general election year the regular season, we are still playing preseason baseball now."

[Concordia 33]

291 posts on this truly stupid and irrelevant story? That's gotta be a record.....

Nate Silver can explain why, however.....

Actually 291 posts suggests it is less than trivial - especially since there is another thread about this that is running concurrently. It is "trivial" to you because you would like it to go away. You do not seem to be able to answer the difficult question of how listing herself as a "minority" in a directory for 9 years would help her to "connect up with other like me" especially since a listing as "minority" does not specify "Native American" and she did not engage in any other activities to "connect" with others like her. Also, she has yet to explain how Harvard would know she was Native American, since the Directory only says "minority" with no further specificity. Also, there was one other law school that publicized her as one of their minority faculty, and another law school newspaper that wrote a story about her being Native American - a story in which they also interviewed her.

Hardly trivial especially since neither she nor you have been able to put these questions to rest.

[Ian McColgin]

It's true that Warren does not admit the Law School desk reference was an error in judgement. Nor does she say that listing her race as "white" or declining to be listed as "minority" on law school and job application forms was an error in judgement. What she said was:

"I listed myself directory in the hopes that might mean that I would be invited to a luncheon a group something with people who are like I am. Nothing like that every happened. That was absolutely not the use for it and so I stopped checking it off," Warren told reporters in Braintree, Massachusetts.

People are welcome to think Warren erred and certainly are welcome to think she should apologize for something, but they are not entitled to fabricate a system manipulation that just did not happen.

[Concordia 33]

It's true that Warren does not admit the Law School desk reference was an error in judgement. Nor does she say that listing her race as "white" or declining to be listed as "minority" on law school and job application forms was an error in judgement. What she said was:

"I listed myself directory in the hopes that might mean that I would be invited to a luncheon a group something with people who are like I am. Nothing like that every happened. That was absolutely not the use for it and so I stopped checking it off," Warren told reporters in Braintree, Massachusetts.

People are welcome to think Warren erred and certainly are welcome to think she should apologize for something, but they are not entitled to fabricate a system manipulation that just did not happen.

Ian:

Of those defending Warren, you seem the most reasonable. Are you aware of any attempts by Ms. Warren to "be invited to a luncheon a group something with people who are like I am" with the exception of this directory listing, and how did she think that listing herself as "minority" in the directory would result in an outpouring of luncheon offerings from long lost Cherokee family? I realize I am not a fan of Ms. Warren, but this seems to be a pretty flimsy rationalization even for a person more neutral than me.

Do you disagree?

[Norman Bernstein]

Actually 291 posts suggests it is less than trivial - especially since there is another thread about this that is running concurrently.

Are you really meaning to imply that the triviality, or non-triviality, of any issue is determined by the number of posts on a bilge thread?

It is "trivial" to you because you would like it to go away. You do not seem to be able to answer the difficult question of how listing herself as a "minority" in a directory for 9 years would help her to "connect up with other like me" especially since a listing as "minority" does not specify "Native American" and she did not engage in any other activities to "connect" with others like her.

You're right, I can't answer the question. I don't know what was in her heart... and neither do you.

I see lots of Jewish women wearing a Star of David on a necklace... and a lot of Christian women wearing a cross on a necklace.... do they have ulterior motives for doing so? Or is it because they want to advertise thier religious or cultural affinity to the world? Is it a point of pride, perhaps? If you believed you were native American, would you keep it a secret, or might you tell others, in one fashion or another, because you were proud of your heritage?

The reason your question can't be answered is because there would be NO answer acceptable to you.... because you clearly believe that she did it for just such an 'ulterior motive', namely, SOME way to gain some advantage from it. YOU can't answer the question of what that advantage was, precisely because there's no evidence of her taking any advantage.... just rumor and supposition.

However, let's just short-circuit to what really matters, instead of continuing this absurd line:

I won't be voting for Mitt Romney. The reason I won't be voting for him is NOT because he put his dog up on the roof of his car during a vacation years ago.... and NOT because he bullied some kid back in high school, possibly because he believed (correctly, as it turned out) that he was gay.

I won't be voting for him because I don't agree with his ideology, I don't agree with his prescriptions for the country, and because I believe he'd make a terrible President.

Similarly, if I end up not voting for Elizabeth Warren (and that is still a possibility, since I don't consider Brown to be all that offensive), it will NOT be because she identified with what she believed to be her native American heritage.... and it will NOT be because I've simply concluded, without evidence, that she did so for some unspecified advantage that nobody can define, or prove.....

....it will be because I don't think she'd make a good Senator.

THAT is why this thread is trivial.

[bobbys]

291 posts on this truly stupid and irrelevant story? That's gotta be a record.....

Nate Silver can explain why, however.....

.

Its the things you do when you think no one is looking that reveals your character.

[Concordia 33]

The reason your question can't be answered is because there would be NO answer acceptable to you....

Since no one including you have tried to answer this (because you can't) we'll never know. I guess it's easier for you to say this than to defend the undefensible.

[Norman Bernstein]

Since no one including you have tried to answer this (because you can't) we'll never know. I guess it's easier for you to say this than to defend the undefensible.

Read post #296 again... I think you have completely missed the entire point.

[Concordia 33]

Read post #296 again... I think you have completely missed the entire point.

OK, I read it. It may be the answer to someone's question, but not mine.

You keep fixating on that fact that we can't know what was in her mind, yet here actions in the context of my questions suggest that whatever her reason it could NOT have been to get "luncheon invitations" from people like her. If you were being objective you would have to concede this unless you are aware of additional actions that she has undertaken to reconnect with her (now doubtful) Native American heritage. Even the left leaning Globe is backing away from this issue.