Did the English get here first?

[goodbasil]

According to this they may have.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/daily...224035201.html
And there is plenty of proof in Newfoundland that the vikings were here long before Columbus.

[Michael D. Storey]

According to this they may have.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/daily...224035201.html
And there is plenty of proof in Newfoundland that the vikings were here long before Columbus.

And you ask this on the anniversary of the day when England consumed Scotland, to create what they called the United Kingdom.

[Bobcat]

Ask Saint Brenden and Lief Ericson.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

And you ask this on the anniversary of the day when England consumed Scotland, to create what they called the United Kingdom.

I think you will find it was a merger, which turned two struggling nations into a Great Power.

(my own views may be deduced from my surname)

[Breakaway]

I ascribe to the theory that Portuguese fisherman came to NA long before anyone else; fisherman being fisherman, they didn't tell anyone about their spot, and hence history hasn't graced them with credit for the discovery.

Kevin

[SMARTINSEN]

I ascribe to the theory that Portuguese fisherman came to NA long before anyone else; fisherman being fisherman, they didn't tell anyone about their spot, and hence history hasn't graced them with credit for the discovery.

Kevin

You may be right. There is an old Portugese astrolabe that was found under the sea off the coast of Newfoundland in one of the museums up there, in St Anthony's, I think.

Edit to add: the astrolabe is in Port aux Basques, and is dated to 1628, but you may be correct nonetheless.

[SeaB]

Thought it was common knowledge that Prince Henry Sinclair of the Orkney islands and Rosslyn, Scotland dropped anchor near the the present day town of Guysborough in N.E. Nova Scotia on June 2, 1398. Giving rise to the Micmac legends of Glooscap. It seems he also came here on previous knowledge of a fisherman who claimed to have travelled most of the North American continent over a period of 20 years starting in 1361.

See "Prince Henry Sinclair" by Fredrick Pohl pub. 1950. Makes a convincing case, but hasn't been taken too seriously until quite recently. Good read in any case.

[gilberj]

There are some records that a Henry Sinclair might have come over sometime in the 14th century. There are some vague references that suggest the Basque Fishermen were over fishing the Grand Banks prior to Cabots voyage. There was a known Scandanavian settlement in Greenland including a Bishop appointed by the Vatican, from the viking times and good contemporary records up to the 1400's. There are again vague records suggesting the eventual extinction of the Greenland settlements may have been precipitated at least partially by raids from other unknown Europeans, though clearly the onset of the little ice age and declining food sources and social disintegration played a roll as well.
I think its safe to say there was some knowledge of lands to the west, at least in some circles in northern Europe. Record keeping was wobbly except in the higher parts of the political administration. Those who may have somehow found their way to the lands to the west would very possibly kept the knowledge to themselves as a sort of corporate secret, giving them access to resources, with little or no competition.

[seedy]

On the west coast, I'm betting on the polynesians.

[Peerie Maa]

And you ask this on the anniversary of the day when England consumed Scotland, to create what they called the United Kingdom.

Was it not more of a bailout after they had bankrupted them selves with some hare brained speculation?

[Breakaway]

On the west coast, I'm betting on the polynesians.

You guys on the west side of the continent had people coming over the "land bridge" (currently Alaska/Russia) earlier than the Polynesians, no?

Kevin

[Michael D. Storey]

You guys on the west side of the continent had people coming over the "land bridge" (currently Alaska/Russia) earlier than the Polynesians, no?

Kevin

I am leaning more towards the Chinese, or other culture that had sophisticated enough boats to withstand a several weeks sail, carrying their own water & food for such a voyage. I feel that there is a difference between island hopping and ocean crossing. I would also guess that I'd put my money on the Japan Current as a motivator, as great as the westerlies. Plus,m I reckon that they would have had to bring some sort of equipment/provisions for their life on their new shore.

[goodbasil]

Gavin Menzies in his book 1421 thinks that the Chinese got here before Columbus. He beleives they landed at what is now Oregan.

[Peerie Maa]

Are you guys talking about Native Americans - the First People who lived there, or those offcomers who discovered the place millenia later and then went home again?

[Michael D. Storey]

Gavin Menzies in his book 1421 thinks that the Chinese got here before Columbus. He beleives they landed at what is now Oregan.

He also made an insinuation about 'evidence' found here in the East in 1930, and I went so far as to search Army Corps of Engineers records to see if there was any sense to what he trussed up as original research.

[Carl Cramer]

In his new book, "The Lost Empire of Atlantis," Menzies contends that the Minoans were the first here.

According to him, they'd go up the Mississippi and mine copper from Lake Superior. He claims DNA proof.

[keyhavenpotterer]

People walked out of Africa 50,000 years ago into Asia then populated Europe. Others just walked further accross Asia along the coast. The sea levels were lower, so they could walk out to Indonesia and Australia (Aborigines) and accross into North America (Native Americans). Didn't need boats except for shoreline fishing (protein). Just walked it then. Sea levels rose, got split up, pockets of genetic selection made us a bit different from each other, after we'd come from the same people. But we all come from those Africans who walked out. There were other human like people, but they had less intelligence, could be outwitted, and fell aside. You North Americans come in part from the people that walked all accross to North America via Far East (native Americans) or those that walked out of Africa into Europe, became European's then went a few thousand years later via a boat accross the north Atlantic. Either way, you come from the same people, just you travelled differenent paths, to the same place.

Nobody discovered America or Australia in the past few centuries, but us European's did discover new ways of getting there (by boat) after the sea levels had risen and cut us off. Unfortunately this re-discovery conincides with the manufacture of firearms and the beginning of social evolution beyond normal genetic selection with regrettable consequences. The Polynesians span this time gap as they had taken to boats in this period of higher sea levels, and could span the Australia to South America gap (Pacific) throughout this period accurately with developed astronavigation, but must have thought Polynesia was too nice to leave and stayed there content.

Ed

[John Bell]

One of the big questions was why did the Europeans discover these new continents and not vice versa? How would history be different if the Mayans came to Spain first?

I think the reason was the Eurasian continent was blessed to have large, easily domesticated animals such as cattle, sheep, horses, and oxen which could be put to labor for agriculture, industry, trade and food. The Americas were not as fortunate. The Incas were able to use the llama and alpaca, but they are nowhere near as versatile as a horse or oxen. In Europe, large draft animals allowed for more efficient agriculture, which lead to trade then to ever more complex industry. Extensive trade networks made possible first by pack animals and later by ships meant that Eurasians were exposed to many more diseases and had therefore evolved the necessary natural defenses. Once European diseases were loosed upon the isolated populations in the Americas most of the natives died long before they ever saw anyone from across the sea, making European conquest inevitable. For the most part there wasn't anyone left to oppose them.