Dory Sails

[cedarribs]

I have a mast, boom, and sails in very good condition, from a 14' Bluejay that was pretty rotten - beyond restoration. I was thinking about boat designs that this rig could be used with. I've always been partial to Swampscott dories and the Chamberlain dory skiff. There's a picture of one with a marconi rig in Gardner's book, but other than that, I haven't seen any dories with that tall of a sail plan. Would you think it would suit the Chamberlain? And if so, why not a 16' dory that has a similar beam? Thanks for your advice and opinions.

Ray

[Ian McColgin]

These are boats with very little initial form stability but the low deadrise of the garboard amidships means it picks up lee side buoyancy quickly and you can get your weight on the rail to weather. So if you're at all nimble and have some sort of whip or ropes so you can handle the helm from just aft of amidships you'll have no problem.

At least not with the sail area. It may be a pain to rig since you're moving from a low unstayed rig to a stayed rig. I think in the long run it would be less total work to stick with the planned sail for the boat.

[Daniel Noyes]

A Sunfish sail or similar sized (75 sq ft.) real dory sail is perfect for the Chamberlain, the jib on a hull that small is a nuisance and the boat tacks very reliably with out it. a 16' dory really wont be much more boat than the 13.5' dory skiff because the dory skiff has that wide relatively vertical transom, a 16' dory will almost the same lenght on the bottom and consequently wont be much more stable.

Like Ian says, build either hull and put the traditional sail over it and you will not be dissappointed at all, The Chamberlain DS is an exceptional boat!

[Ian McColgin]

For Leeward - Chamberlain gunning dory very like the Swampscott - I used some old sailfish spars but a different configuration - one spar rode up the mast like a sliding gunter with about 3' of luff below the spar. The other spar went like horizontal sprit to the clew. The tack was lower than the clew so the foot rises to the rear and with the sprit rigged boom is self-vanging. Never got around to a jib. It was a powerful sail, considerably larger than what Gardner designed but with reefs I could take it out on the breezier days.

[dredbob]

I have a mast, boom, and sails in very good condition, from a 14' Bluejay that was pretty rotten - beyond restoration. I was thinking about boat designs that this rig could be used with. I've always been partial to Swampscott dories and the Chamberlain dory skiff. There's a picture of one with a marconi rig in Gardner's book, but other than that, I haven't seen any dories with that tall of a sail plan. Would you think it would suit the Chamberlain? And if so, why not a 16' dory that has a similar beam? Thanks for your advice and opinions.

Ray

There were racing dories that carried that kind of rig; do some googling on Beachcomber/Alpha or Massachusets Bay Racing Dory. Though the racing dories were a bit longer, usually 18 to 21 feet.

Bob

[Ben Fuller]

For Leeward - Chamberlain gunning dory very like the Swampscott - I used some old sailfish spars but a different configuration - one spar rode up the mast like a sliding gunter with about 3' of luff below the spar. The other spar went like horizontal sprit to the clew. The tack was lower than the clew so the foot rises to the rear and with the sprit rigged boom is self-vanging. Never got around to a jib. It was a powerful sail, considerably larger than what Gardner designed but with reefs I could take it out on the breezier days.

What Ian did with his sailfish sail is very like what racing sunfish sailors do with their sails: the yard runs almost vertical and the boom angles up so the clew is higher than the tack.

[Ian McColgin]

Yep, except Leeward's sprit-boom was horizontal, not along the foot, and the sail was designed from jump for the sail to have a vertical luff and loose foot. Not to mention the significantly greater sail area, but absolutely the look would be the same. We used to do that in the '50s with the plywood Sailfish (back when you bought the plans and spars and sail and made the boat) if the wind was light.

[sailboy3]

What Ian did with his sailfish sail is very like what racing sunfish sailors do with their sails: the yard runs almost vertical and the boom angles up so the clew is higher than the tack.

If you do go this route, look up "sunfish jens rig." There are some good articles showing the proper way of doing it.

[Thorne]

As above, don't go there. I've owned and sailed two Blue Jays, and currently own and sail a Chamberlain Dory Skiff. The dory's mainsail is from a Sabot on a 16' mast and is 38 sqft with a jib nearly as large, and the boat is over-canvased and often takes water over the rail. Reefed main and smaller jib are a bit less than 2/3 of the above size. The dory skiff would be much better off with a shorter mast and sails meant for the boat, not pieced together off eBay and marine flea market finds.

A Blue Jay mast is nearly 20' and the sails total 90 sqft (main and jib). There is a huge difference between a sail-only sailboat and a sail & oar boat -- that that difference is the ability to carry more canvas and row poorly for the former.

[James McMullen]

I think that the most likely boat to fit those sails would be a Blue Jay. Or is that just too boring? I know the modern ones are all FG, but wasn't it a plywood boat when the class began? That design is from the late '40's, isn't it? And a hard-chine v-bottom? I'm almost certain you could build a stitch and glue wooden one.

[cedarribs]

I got the message, guys, and I agree. I thought about building a Bluejay but my heart isn't really in it. It's a nice sailing rig, but not for the boat I really want. Maybe I'll sell it and put the money towards the right gear. Thanks for the advice.

[James McMullen]

Good job! You'll be much happier using the rig that's suited for the job rather than trying to cram that square peg into the hole. I applaud you for following the evidence to where it actually leads rather than insisting on your own version of reality.

[SHClark]

Alternatively: you can plug the rig into something that is Blue Jay like but not a Blue Jay. I'm thinking a little longer, quite a bit lighter, maybe with more flare in the topsides, without the stupid skeg but with enough built in buoyancy so you can get home unassisted if you take an unexpected dip in the pool. Probably make it row better too.
SHC

[Thorne]

If you do build a Chamberlain Dory Skiff, pick a rig that will fit comfortably in the boat when struck - probably a lug or spritsail. I've done a LOT of rowing with the mast up, and is isn't any fun at all with a brisk headwind, and tends to roll a lot in a swell.

[bsandrews]

So, what would that be? I have the same issue and would love "something that is Blue Jay like but not a Blue Jay. I'm thinking a little longer, quite a bit lighter, maybe with more flare in the topsides, without the stupid skeg but with enough built in buoyancy so you can get home unassisted if you take an unexpected dip in the pool.

[cedarribs]

I'm not sure about the buoyancy, but Atkin's Willy Winship calls for an almost identical rig. It's a nice flat bottom skiff - designed for a Marconi rig just like a Bluejay.